Meta "And Then Suddenly..." [1.1.5] Patch Discussion

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

the hitbox was modified to hit airborne opponents only, in order to get the endless to work you needed to hit grounded opponents

Um wait, the ENTIRE Uair? Or only a certain hitbox of it?
Because if the ENTIRE Uair has to hit airborne opponents, how can she hit people on platforms above her?

Though I'll assume it's only a certain small hitbox.

 

[martzfartz]

WE ZELDA HOO HAH BOYZ

 

[Logo12]

Is it just me or is Rosalina called "Rosalina and Chiko" in the official notes? Or is it intentional?

 

[Xandercosm]

Well, it's a happy and sad day for MKs... New tech chase F-air but a neutered U-air -> death combo...

 

[Ninety]

So the official patch note thread says Robin got a BKB increase of about 5 units on jab1 and jab2. In practice, what does this mean? Harder time linking into windjab?

 

[John12346]

So the official patch note thread says Robin got a BKB increase of about 5 units on jab1 and jab2. In practice, what does this mean? Harder time linking into windjab?

My guess is that the first two jabs lift opponents off the ground better, causing fastfallers like Fox not to hit the ground as quickly and get their shield up at low percents. Probably means Jab 2 > Flurry Attack (wind) works more consistently against them, and Jab 2 > Jab 3 (fire) may start to work on them at lower percents.

Edit: Just checked, Fox's feet never touch the ground, so confirmed?

Edit 2: This also seems like it'll make things tougher against light or floaty characters. I'm able to connect both the fire and wind jabs after Jab 2 against Jigglypuff at 100%, but they can jump out after only being hit by a few hits of the wind jab, since the previous Jabs 1 & 2 lifted them up so high.

 

[PokéPersona]

So according to this, Cloud's Limit Break charge time is 0.42 seconds longer not 1.5

 

[Bowserboy3]

Only had half an hour, but quickly tested a few Samus things with my 1.1.4 3DS and 1.1.5 3DS. Just copied my post to the Samus boards here...

---

I think that thing about Fsmash is false. It still whiffs on characters virtually on top of you and walking (however, it's not like it's a problem that holds Samus back in competitive play, there are/were other reasons for that. How people can use this as a way to say Samus is bad is laughable).

Secondly, Jab 1 to Jab 2 apparently linking better is false. It is still the same as before. It used to true combo at 45ish% and it still is. No earlier or later than in 1.1.4. It still helps if you can hit them with the jab close up to get the follow up. Maybe that's what caused a lot of placebo, people not realizing that hitting with the fist launches opponents too far away for a follow up.

Another thing I saw floating about according to ESAM was a change about Bombs. He claimed they came out faster. This is untrue, as they come out and end at the same time. I don't have twitter, but for those who do, it might be a good idea to call ESAM out on that and the jab thing (which he also said was changed) to prevent placebo from being spread - https://twitter.com/PG_ESAM?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author.

ESAM did mention that you also get more mobility out of a Bomb in the air. That I was unable to test due to the limited time I had. However, it could be to do with Samus's increased air speed, giving the illusion they provide more distance.

Which brings me to a couple of re-confirmations; yes, it seems fall, fast fall and air speed has been increased. I dunno how to test gravity yet, but I assume that is also changed too.

Grabs indeed have less endlag, all of them, by a small amount (something like 4-6 frames).

Another thing I found is that Dsmash has less endlag, by just a few frames or so. I didn't get chance to test power to see if the knockback was buffed, but I'll come back and confirm that later. Even so, less endlag makes it a bit safer.

 

[Acker]

Uhm, I've read on the patch notes that the Corrin's speed was nerfed, so I've made a test with a 1.1.5 Wii U and a 1.1.4 3DS and looks like the speed is exactly the same.
Here the video proof (sorry for the potato quality):

EDIT: Looks like they nerfed his/her speed by only 0.03, so it's really difficult to tell the difference, my bad.

 

[KashKey]

So... Pretty much everyone got screwed with and now... No one knows what the hell is going on anymore. Good to know.

 

[Stehpen]

Is it just me or is Rosalina called "Rosalina and Chiko" in the official notes? Or is it intentional?

Chico is what they call luma over in Japan

 

[Yikarur]

Corrins Runspeed difference is 1,5 -> 1,45 is a ~4% difference. It's very hard to notice it visually. You'd have them to run on a very large custom stage to see the difference.

 

[RoyMaBoy]

So Corrins counter got nerfed, but is it still monstrously powerful?

 

[Rakurai]

It KOs around 10-20% later then before.

Still strong, but more in line with the other counters.

 

[nerdbot]

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/#post-20999175

Is the bit about Bowser here true even though there aren't file changes for Bowser listed in the other post with the changed file list? I thought at first I might have glanced over it because he's Koopa in the files but I didn't see any under that name either.

 

[SSB4 Duck]

Maybe it's just me, but does the end lag animation for Sheik needles also seem slower/longer to anyone when grounded?

 

[iruchii]

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/#post-20999175

Is the bit about Bowser here true even though there aren't file changes for Bowser listed in the other post with the changed file list? I thought at first I might have glanced over it because he's Koopa in the files but I didn't see any under that name either.

I believe that list is just for Damage and Knockback changes. Speed,Weight and other technical stuff are not in those files, afaik.

 

[nerdbot]

I believe that list is just for Damage and Knockback changes. Speed,Weight and other technical stuff are not in those files, afaik.

I was expecting it to be something like that, but wanted to be sure. Thank you.

 

[Acker]

Corrins Runspeed difference is 1,5 -> 1,45 is a ~4% difference. It's very hard to notice it visually. You'd have them to run on a very large custom stage to see the difference.

Yes, I was just warned about this like 10 minutes ago, thanks anyway for the info.

 

[theIgloo]

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/#post-20999175

Is the bit about Bowser here true even though there aren't file changes for Bowser listed in the other post with the changed file list? I thought at first I might have glanced over it because he's Koopa in the files but I didn't see any under that name either.

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/#post-20999127
In the spreadsheet it says he has changes and both Air Speed and Weight are listed as 1 and 130, so yeah it's true

 

[lordvaati]

For real though guys-did you honestly expect the last pastch to debut characters and NOT have a bug/balance update afterwards?

This was what everyone was trying to say, there is no more content updates, but there are balance updates.
(alsobecauseitweetedtosakuraithecorrininfinitegrabglitchandbayonettasgrabboxwhiffingbutthatsastoryforanothertimethankyou)

On Topic though, I've been hearing in FB groups that Villager's Grab has less frames to come out, can anyone confirm this?

 

[Minwu]

cloud's limit break still charges from taking 100%/dealing 250%

 

[lordvaati]

On a more in-game related feature, has anyone confirmed that the 8-player bug was removed? I play 3DS so I can't test myself sadly.

 

[Tofer Dallah]

Mii Swordfighter Nair seem bigger and faster. Someone can confirm ?

 

[KashKey]

On a more in-game related feature, has anyone confirmed that the 8-player bug was removed? I play 3DS so I can't test myself sadly.

I certainly hope not, that glitch looks hilarious.

 

[Troykv]

Finally. The Corrin's Counter was extremely powerful compared with the other character's Counters. It was a completely just nerf.

#PraisethePostGamePatch

(I'm unsure with the other Corrin's Nerfs. But some are probably deserved)

 

[Xandercosm]

I can't believe Zard got 9 frames off F-air AND B-air.

 

[MockRock]

Corrins Runspeed difference is 1,5 -> 1,45 is a ~4% difference. It's very hard to notice it visually. You'd have them to run on a very large custom stage to see the difference.

You can certainly feel it, though. Corrin already felt a bit clunky, and now... she feels really freaking clunky. Yuck. Terrible nerf decision, I'd support literally anything before nerfing a character's mobility.

 

[an1bal]

On the bayo discord group we agreed on a nerf on her dair, specifically her FAF. You cant cancel out of dair as quickly as before, was tested out. you used to be able to walk off dair from FD and be safe, now you need to short hop before dairing.

 

[Maik93]

I don't know if this has been a thing before but witch time didn't affect me when I shot Bayo with a laser of Fox.
It did activate but I wasn't slowed down.

 

[jespoke]

I don't know if this has been a thing before but witch time didn't affect me when I shot Bayo with a laser of Fox.
It did activate but I wasn't slowed down.

Did you shoot her at point blank range? If not it is the same as always

 

[MrListerTheSisterFister]

I don't know if this has been a thing before but witch time didn't affect me when I shot Bayo with a laser of Fox.
It did activate but I wasn't slowed down.

It's a proximity thing. She won't be able to witch time you if you're not close to her.

 

[Hippieslayer]

You can certainly feel it, though. Corrin already felt a bit clunky, and now... she feels really freaking clunky. Yuck. Terrible nerf decision, I'd support literally anything before nerfing a character's mobility.

No, you most certainly can not. Placebo, seriously, its been a bunch of patches and still this crap.

 

[Tinkerer]

From the patch thread:

SAMUS:
Dash Attack Total Frame 37F -> 33F
D-Smash Total Frame 51F -> 44F
Unknown 57 -> 56
Unknown 59 -> 58
Unknown 60 -> 59
Unknown 54 -> 49
Unknown 54 -> 49
Unknown 54 -> 49
Unknown 54 -> 49

These unknowns seem to be Samus's projectiles:

Homing Missile FAF 57 -> 56
Super Missile FAF 59 -> 58
Fully charged Charge Shot FAF 60 -> 59
Charge Shot FAF 54 -> 49
Bomb FAF 54 -> 49

Seems to check out when checking my 1.1.4 3DS against 1.1.5 Wii U, but worth a double check by someone else.

 

[Furil]

For those curious of the ZSS Nair change:

Spoiler: Before

Spoiler: After

 

[Bowserboy3]

From the patch thread:


These unknowns seem to be Samus's projectiles:

Homing Missile FAF 57 -> 56
Super Missile FAF 59 -> 58
Fully charged Charge Shot FAF 60 -> 59
Charge Shot FAF 54 -> 49
Bomb FAF 54 -> 49

Seems to check out when checking my 1.1.4 3DS against 1.1.5 Wii U, but worth a double check by someone else.

I saw this data floating about relating to Samus.

Dash Attack Total Frame 37F -> 33F
D-Smash Total Frame 51F -> 44F
Unknown 57 -> 56
Unknown 59 -> 58
Unknown 60 -> 59
Unknown 54 -> 49
Unknown 54 -> 49
Unknown 54 -> 49
Unknown 54 -> 49

I went through Samus's frame data and checked all possibilities quite a while back on the Samus boards. I'll copy that old post here. Here is what I found...

Spoiler: Possible Samus changes

• Unknown 57 -> 56: Usmash's FAF in 1.1.4 was 57, so it could relate to that. Homing Missile also has FAF 57, and seeing as@White_Pointer mentioned something about Missiles, it could well be that.

• Unknown 59 -> 58: Super Missile's 1.1.4 FAF is 59. Seeing as there is the possibility of Homing Missile getting a change, this seems also likely.

• Unknown 60 -> 59: 60 relates to quite a bit in Samus's moveset. It could relate to Dash Attack's KBG being lowered from 60 to 59. It could relate to Fthrow and Bthrow's BKB being lowered from 60 to 60. Fair and Zair also have a FAF of 60 in 1.1.4, so it could also relate to those (personally, I hope it's Dash Attack KBG being lowered, because out of all the changes it could be, at least this might mean we can use Dash Attack to set up a combo for a slightly longer margin).

• Unknown 54 -> 49
• Unknown 54 -> 49
• Unknown 54 -> 49
• Unknown 54 -> 49: These 4 could relate to Bombs, which would make sense, or Charge Shot, as both of these specials have a FAF of 54 in 1.1.4. I can't think why there are 4 of the same change though... hmm... Perhaps it's Charge Shot uncharged, Charge Shot fully charged, Bomb ground and Bomb air...

 

[MockRock]

No, you most certainly can not. Placebo, seriously, its been a bunch of patches and still this crap.

5%? You don't think that you can feel 5% difference in movement speed? I thought that Corrin had a bit of a worse feel to her before the patch notes actually came out, and I had no reason to go into the game thinking that. It's absolutely noticeable, especially with a spacing character.

 

[Radical Larry]

Alright, I've been testing out some things about characters, and I've found a discovery that will scare players.

So comparing both versions, ever since the release up to 1.1.4, Toon Link has had an Up B that halts itself late into the move.
In 1.1.5, Toon Link's recovery move not only halts early, but if Toon Link has absolutely no momentum, he will almost never move.

I know for a fact that this wasn't the case in 1.1.4 and prior, since I could get double the distance of what it did previously.
So what I am hopefully acknowledging is that Toon Link has a worse recovery now, and cannot afford to get hit off stage.



Has anyone noticed that Ryu's D-Tilt doesn't lock the opponent into place anymore if they use no DI? I might be going crazy, but he might have some actual non-set KB on D-Tilt. As well, I firmly believe U-Tilt has increased KB.



Check for U-Throw endlag reduction; I've been getting a lot of Double Jump U-Airs at later damages on opponents.

And hey guys, if you could give me a compiled list of any possible changes (I'm talking to you hackers) or would like to deconfirm or confirm these, please let me (and everyone) know!

But I am adamant about Toon Link's horizontal Up B nerf being a true thing.

 

[MockRock]

Alright, I've been testing out some things about characters, and I've found a discovery that will scare players.

So comparing both versions, ever since the release up to 1.1.4, Toon Link has had an Up B that halts itself late into the move.
In 1.1.5, Toon Link's recovery move not only halts early, but if Toon Link has absolutely no momentum, he will almost never move.

I can't possibly imagine the rationale behind this if it's true. Like, huh?

 

[momochuu]

The bayo nerfs aren't that bad lol