Meta "And Then Suddenly..." [1.1.5] Patch Discussion

[jespoke]

Was the knockback growth on Finishing Touch reduced entirely or just the air version?

I don't know how it works exactly, but i can tell you that some code that before said "Do the same as [Finishing Touch]" now does a copy of Finishing Touch with lower kbg numbers instead.

 

[Xandercosm]

Yoshi is unchanged.

Are you sure? I was getting consistently D-throw to U-aired by a Yoshi earlier today regardless of my DI.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Just posting this so that it doesn't get lost in a sea of text.

Samus's missiles have a small change. Both kinds come out of the arm cannon quicker but the endlag is the same.

Would appreciate some other people to confirm this.

 

[Furret]

Just posting this so that it doesn't get lost in a sea of text.

Samus's missiles have a small change. Both kinds come out of the arm cannon quicker but the endlag is the same.

Would appreciate some other people to confirm this.

If i recall correctly there was a place in the diffs where there was new frame multipliers, with no hitboxes. Could have been the file that calls missile. Give me a sec I'll take a look

Edit1:

these do line up with old super/guide missiles

Edit2:
If my maths are right

• Guide missile
  • FAF is still the same
  • missile on frame 20->18
• Super missile
  • FAF is still the same
  • missile on frame 23->21

 

[PokéPersona]

Just posting this so that it doesn't get lost in a sea of text.

Samus's missiles have a small change. Both kinds come out of the arm cannon quicker but the endlag is the same.

Would appreciate some other people to confirm this.

That's probably the unknown frame changes that's each shortened by 1-2 in Samus' code

 

[Omega Tyrant]

CHARZARD BONANZA

Jumpsquat - 7F > 6F

I see this isn't in the OP yet of the patch notes, and no one else has stated it. Is it confirmed if Zard's jumpsquat is indeed faster?

 

[Xandercosm]

Charizard probably got the biggest buffs this time around. This is ridiculous.

 

[Bowserboy3]

If i recall correctly there was a place in the diffs where there was new frame multipliers, with no hitboxes. Could have been the file that calls missile. Give me a sec I'll take a look

Edit1:
View attachment 100356
these do line up with old super/guide missiles

Edit2:

• Guide missile
  • FAF is still the same
  • missile on frame 20->18
• Super missile
  • FAF is still the same
  • missile on frame 23->21

Right then, so both kinds of missile do come out earlier.

What else is there left with Samus?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What a day to be a zard main.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

Any changes to Roy? I heard mention of a slight speed increase and range increases to tilts but I'm not sure if these claims are just placebo.
(I had already updated on my 3ds so i'm unable to test these for myself)

 

[Bowserboy3]

Any changes to Roy? I heard mention of a slight speed increase and range increases to tilts but I'm not sure if these claims are just placebo.
(I had already updated on my 3ds so i'm unable to test these for myself)

What sort of things are being passed about? If we know we can test them.

 

[TheSpnBrm]

What sort of things are being passed about? If we know we can test them.

I would test his speed first and foremost. I was able to F Throw Fair at highers percent which Roy would barely whiff prior to this patch.

Edit: ( Besides this as I mentioned before there was word about his tilts having slight range increases and his Down Throw & Forward Throw having less end lag.)

These are what I have heard but I do not have proof of any of the above claims.

 

[Furret]

Right then, so both kinds of missile do come out earlier.

What else is there left with Samus?

in the diffs there are rather various changes to Fair, but functionally it's still the same move just looks adjusted to work better

Spoiler: the diff

Some angle changes, hitboxes got extended values, and a new hitbox entirely on the first hit
last thing I have no clue what it is for

Any changes to Roy? I heard mention of a slight speed increase and range increases to tilts but I'm not sure if these claims are just placebo.
(I had already updated on my 3ds so i'm unable to test these for myself)

if anything was faster at the start, those should have been caught by now if they were true. Of course could have missed something

 

[Steeler]

What a day to be a zard main.

Patience has paid off. And Daddy Sakurai nerfed the two new girls on the block I was flirting with (Cloud and Corrin). I guess Daddy Sakurai finally realized the minor changes of before weren't gonna save my marriage to Waifu Zard.

 

[adom4]

Can someone check if Ganondorf got a dash speed increase?
He feels a bit faster but idk if it's placebo.

 

[Lavani]

Can someone check if Ganondorf got a dash speed increase?
He feels a bit faster but idk if it's placebo.

His walk/run speed/accel numbers are unchanged in the data.

 

[Eureka]

KBG was only reduced for the air version, the grounded version's the same as before.

Okay good, I thought as much, but I wanted to be sure because the patch notes didn't say so earlier. Honestly it would have been really dumb if they nerfed grounded Finishing Touch, considering the only time people were dying unnecessarily early to it was either from getting their air dodge baited pretty high up or by getting thrown into it by Cloud's partner in teams. Also did they really nerf Cloud and Corrin's rolls? That just seems so random.

 

[jespoke]

Also did they really nerf Cloud and Corrin's rolls? That just seems so random.

From what i gathered Corn's rolls were amazing and For Glory Clouds rolling away and charging limit were really annoying for low/mid level players

 

[zzmorg82]

No changes for the bird.

 

[Eureka]

From what i gathered Corn's rolls were amazing and For Glory Clouds rolling away and charging limit were really annoying for low/mid level players

Corrin's rolls weren't anything special (4-16 intangability and FAF 30) same as 12 other characters like Mario, DK, Falco, and sure a roll spamming Cloud might be annoying for people who are bad at the game on For Glory, but so is Duck Hunt spamming the best roll in the game and throwing projectiles, and they haven't nerfed that. This really seems like a case of them wanting to nerf the characters a little bit more but not knowing where to so they decided to nerf their rolls.

 

[Furil]

I don't know if these have been mentioned yet, but here they are anyway.

Bayonetta

• FSmash KBG 105 -> 102
• FSmash BKB 25 -> 26
• UpSmash KBG -> 92 -> 90
• Witch Twist Damage 4/3/0.3 -> 3/2/0.2

There's also something with Corrin's dragon fang shot:
It looks like the uncharged version.

 

[theanjo]

No changes for the bird.

Not even down smash? That was talked about earlier in the thread, but nobody checked Falco's numbers in diffchecker.

 

[Stehpen]

So its a debuff for any Peach player that used UpAir from a Ground float on a grounded opponent.... lol

Really specific and almost negligible for Peach mains

It was the source of an infinite combo. This was changed so it was no longer possible.

 

[Vipermoon]

If i recall correctly there was a place in the diffs where there was new frame multipliers, with no hitboxes. Could have been the file that calls missile. Give me a sec I'll take a look

Edit1:
View attachment 100356
these do line up with old super/guide missiles

Edit2:
If my maths are right

• Guide missile
  • FAF is still the same
  • missile on frame 20->18
• Super missile
  • FAF is still the same
  • missile on frame 23->21

Why would the total frames be the same? I'm less informed with how projectile attacks work but in a normal move, if you give it a frame speed modifier, it ends up having a different IASA than the one that is "set".

If that works the same way, Samus's missiles should end two frames faster.

From what i gathered Corn's rolls were amazing and For Glory Clouds rolling away and charging limit were really annoying for low/mid level players

Corrin's roll sucked and no one used it. Normal invincibility and total frames, short distance (super important).

If they wanted to nerf a FE character's roll it should have been Roy's. It has Marth's enormous distance but with the faster tiers's total frames (this part makes sense since without a sheath, he didn't have to take his sword back out in the animation unlike Marth) even though it had the slower tier's invincibility!

 

[Furret]

Why would the total frames be the same? I'm less informed with how projectile attacks work but in a normal move, if you give it a frame speed modifier, it ends up having a different IASA than the one that is "set".

If that works the same way, Samus's missiles should end two frames faster.

so what they did was kind of silly, they added a frame multiplier before the move comes out (which reduced the frame count)
Then added on another frame multiplier after the missile comes out (which increased frame count)

 

[ligersandtigons]

Corrin's rolls weren't anything special (4-16 intangability and FAF 30) same as 12 other characters like Mario, DK, Falco, and sure a roll spamming Cloud might be annoying for people who are bad at the game on For Glory, but so is Duck Hunt spamming the best roll in the game and throwing projectiles, and they haven't nerfed that. This really seems like a case of them wanting to nerf the characters a little bit more but not knowing where to so they decided to nerf their rolls.

When comparing frame data across different characters, it's important to remember the "context" of the data and how the data fits in with the character as a whole. There's a reason why dodge frame data isn't uniform throughout the entire cast.

Duck Hunt having the best dodges in the game fits the playstyle the dev team had in mind when developing DH, which was probably a campy trap based character that is hard to pin down, hence why it makes sense for DH's dodges to be so good.

Corrin, on the other hand, is designed around zoning and spacing people out but has trouble when somebody is able to get through her wall. Nerfing Corrin's dodges emphasizes this as it slightly punishes Corrin when she fails to properly zone and slightly rewards the opponent better when they are able to get in.

For Cloud, I'm guessing they just wanted to make it slightly harder for a Cloud to runaway when ledge camping with Limit Charge.

Regardless, my point is I don't think saying "x doesn't deserve this nerf on z because y has a better z" is a good argument, if that makes sense.

 

[Radical Larry]

Hey, whoever has both versions of the game, I need you to test Ganondorf's aerial mobility now.
I want to get a confirm whether or not he's got more speed in it.

 

[Vipermoon]

so what they did was kind of silly, they added a frame multiplier before the move comes out (which reduced the frame count)
Then added on another frame multiplier after the missile comes out (which increased frame count)

I should have looked at it before making that post. It's obvious there's both a 0.9 and 1.1 FSM.

Radical Larry WE ALREADY TOLD YOU HIS MOVEMENT SPECS ARE UNCHANGED ACCORDING TO GAME DATA.

Isn't there a ban rule against this? I thought this thread was strict.

 

[Lyserdon]

so what they did was kind of silly, they added a frame multiplier before the move comes out (which reduced the frame count)
Then added on another frame multiplier after the missile comes out (which increased frame count)

I've wondered about things like this too before but it occurred to me after reading your post that maybe it was done that way, rather than just changing the actual frame, in order to preserve the hitbox starting at the right point in the animation. If they just changed the frame, the hitbox would come out while the animation was in an earlier position, and you'd get potential hits before the game even draws the missile model.

 

[Chaoslink]

don't know if this was reported or not, but i found out link's up smash is stronger in this patch, a normal up smash on 1.1.4 did 17%, now it does 18% on 1.1.5, i don't think it's exactly a whole percent though because fully charged pre patch it's 23, current patch is 25

 

[Radical Larry]

Vipermoon Jeez, control yourself. I was just wondering about it and didn't even hear the news about it!

Chaoslink It always did 17% to 18%.

 

[Masonomace]

BLG File Omega Tyrant I do frame skips for Zard's jumpsquat & I still see that its 7F.

 

[Furret]

I've wondered about things like this too before but it occurred to me after reading your post that maybe it was done that way, rather than just changing the actual frame, in order to preserve the hitbox starting at the right point in the animation. If they just changed the frame, the hitbox would come out while the animation was in an earlier position, and you'd get potential hits before the game even draws the missile model.

yes, they use frame multipliers to make the animation line up, it still just looks silly in code because of how sloppy it appears
also the missile model is loaded on a frame so it always would be drawn it just would look off from the arm animation

Radical Larry WE ALREADY TOLD YOU HIS MOVEMENT SPECS ARE UNCHANGED ACCORDING TO GAME DATA.

Isn't there a ban rule against this? I thought this thread was strict.

I shouldn't have laughed at this, but I did

 

[Vipermoon]

Vipermoon Jeez, control yourself. I was just wondering about it and didn't even hear the news about it!

Chaoslink It always did 17% to 18%.

Lavani already answered you and told you the same thing. That is why I lost my patience. I added a link to "game data" in my post so you can go all out until you pass out.

 

[Wiley]

my controller jammed up recently so I haven't been playing for a few days and I completely missed this patch news! I'm So excited to get back home and test everything out... Wow I love what I'm seeing so far!

 

[BLG File]

BLG File Omega Tyrant I do frame skips for Zard's jumpsquat & I still see that its 7F.

I'm just going off of the Param files information. You can check it out here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5sce3ticdza5YjoTKLOgxFhG8/edit#gid=1426837770

 

[BSP]

• Bair KBG: 98 -> 100
• Fsmash First Hit/Second Hit KBG: 97/100 -> 99/102
• Usmash Second Hit Early/Late KBG:95/90 -> 97/92
• Dsmash Early/Late KBG: 84/90 -> 86/92

Thanks, but I mean like 1.1.4 vs 1.1.5 testing confirmation. I compiled Pac man's knockback values on a 300% Mario from the previous patch a while ago. Even though the patch notes say F and U smash got buffed, I get the same kickback numbers for them as I got pre patch. I wouldn't be skeptical of a base kickback change was reported, but it wasn't.

So I'm trying to see if Pac man has yet another coding glitch.

For reference , if you go hit a 300% Mario, no DI, with a 0% Pac-Man, you should get a launch speed of 173 mph for F smash and 134 for U smash if you hit with only the ghost.

If you get something higher, my Wii u is messed up. If you get that, something is up with his change list.

 

[Luig]

Something that I noticed, it is now impossible to do a walk-off dair with bayonetta on FD and live.

 

[Yikarur]

Jump-Squads in the parameters are not the same as in-game because they go through some speed modifiers. If you compare 1.1.4 and 1.1.5 you see that Charizard has 6 in both. But he still has 7.

 

[WinterWonter]

Are you positive about this, or is this an "I wish Link was better than Toon Link so placebo makes me feel he gets something terrible and Link doesn't"? I think we need more people to check this. I can check it later, as I have 1.1.4 and 1.1.5 3DS. Seems really odd why they'd nerf Toon Link's recovery move.

lmao, last patch notes or maybe the one before that, Radical Larry was posting all kinds of stupid stuff. pretty much all of it was debunked at some point or another, and he seems to think link is an "A tier character". i love me some link, but he is not that good. anyway, he kept putting stuff that was false so don't listen to that dude.

Also, can someone check if jigglypuff's up tilt is any faster? or any changes at all really. I don't know where to check what charcters can have possibly been changed

edit: just read some stuff and he's being stupid and breaking rules again. 10/10