Meta "And Then Suddenly..." [1.1.5] Patch Discussion

[Kesno]

I'll ask this for the first time, although some people have already asked this already.

Was Yoshi Dthrow jumpsquat etc. changed in someway this patch or a previous patch we possibly missed to somehow make Dthrow Uair more consistent apparently this patch all of a sudden to some.
A major placebo is still floating around in the Yoshi community and while I don't really believe it, the misconception is spreading everywhere to the point commentators are bringing it up during Yoshi sets as they Dthrow and never go for the Uair cause the opponent already jumped away or too far to do it so they don't attempt lol

Don't think a yes/no answer can calm the storm either.

My roommate is a Yoshi main and the first time I see him after the patch came out the next day he says that Yoshi has a DThrow to up air. We've played a few times and yes I do believe that it is true, but he says that Yoshi wasn't touched, but that something in the game engine must have changed to make it work. So there must be some undiscovered universal change that hasn't been noted yet.

 

[blackghost]

Canon is never a good reason for balance. If we're going to go for canon, then Samus' up b should be completely invincible and kill anything except the strongest opponents instantly. But it doesn't, because of balance.

samus isnt an action game chaarcter and as they carried ryus properties straight from his games why wouldnt they do it with hers?

 

[Yikarur]

Dthrow upair has always worked this way.

 

[Runelyx]

So im new to smashboards and i was wondering if someone could explain to me what things like KBG in the patcg notes. And like all the numbers with /'s. Thanks

 

[Vipermoon]

So im new to smashboards and i was wondering if someone could explain to me what things like KBG in the patcg notes. And like all the numbers with /'s. Thanks

I know posting this is the lazy route but this will perfectly answer your questions and your future questions. Use ctrl + f to find things.
Welcome!

Smash Dictionary

 

[Trifroze]

Can confirm Yoshi's dthrow to uair works at kill percents at least on fastfallers.

as a 50:50

if your opponent has no DI

with DI you can just jump out

 

[DungeonMaster]

Zapp Branniglenn I can't reply to the stickied thread - are you sure the initial hitbox of CS doesn't show up earlier?
When they designed this character initially she had tons of narrow combos without CS, then broad ones as soon as she got the CS, this much is clear from training mode.
They took away for instance D-air -> FJ -> CS which registers in training mode but air-dodge would always beat it.

Since 1.1.5 I've been able to get a very deep landing frame canceled D-air -> FJ -> CS at say ROB at 80%, and even with a turbo-fire controller it beats the air-dodge.
It only beats it in close, i.e. character model overlap otherwise there are not enough frames.

 

[MZG20]

Is there a new tier list yet?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Zapp Branniglenn I can't reply to the stickied thread - are you sure the initial hitbox of CS doesn't show up earlier?
When they designed this character initially she had tons of narrow combos without CS, then broad ones as soon as she got the CS, this much is clear from training mode.
They took away for instance D-air -> FJ -> CS which registers in training mode but air-dodge would always beat it.

Since 1.1.5 I've been able to get a very deep landing frame canceled D-air -> FJ -> CS at say ROB at 80%, and even with a turbo-fire controller it beats the air-dodge.
It only beats it in close, i.e. character model overlap otherwise there are not enough frames.

I have frame counted Samus' moves before and after the patch. There is no doubt the startup is unchanged. You mention combos in which Samus jumps in the air to fire a CS at point blank. Chalk it up to the increased gravity. Gravity decides how quickly a character ascends to maximum height for jumps and then begins falling. Trust me, this would affect a full hop followup far more than a startup change of one frame could.

 

[Zerp]

Is there a new tier list yet?

If you mean a official Tier List like the first Smash 4 Back Room one, then no, there isn't another one of those yet. It'll probably be a couple more months at least until the next one.

 

[atticusfinch7]

So who else is just waiting for 1.1.6

 

[Eureka]

From the patch notes on Bayonetta.

Heel Slide:

• Startup: 2.1F -> 2.46F
• Hit 2 Duration: 7F -> 8F
• Button Held Total Duration: 72F -> 77F

I don't think I quite understand what these changes mean. So the startup of heal slide went from 2.1 frames to 2.46 frames? How is there a difference of less then one frame? And Heel Slide started up way latter than that anyway. And does "Hit 2 duration" mean that the second hitbox stays out for one frame later, or is it just there's one extra frame of end lag. And is this included in the total duration increase of five frames?

 

[Lavani]

From the patch notes on Bayonetta.

Heel Slide:

• Startup: 2.1F -> 2.46F
• Hit 2 Duration: 7F -> 8F
• Button Held Total Duration: 72F -> 77F

I don't think I quite understand what these changes mean. So the startup of heal slide went from 2.1 frames to 2.46 frames? How is there a difference of less then one frame? And Heel Slide started up way latter than that anyway. And does "Hit 2 duration" mean that the second hitbox stays out for one frame later, or is it just there's one extra frame of end lag. And is this included in the total duration increase of five frames?

Well this is messy. I'm not sure where these numbers came from, but...

There was a change specifically to hit 2 of Heel Slide (both versions of the initial slide kick are unchanged) where they changed a frame speed multiplier on frame 34 (real frame 17), slightly slowing down the rest of the animation. This causes:

• A decimal shift in startup that ends up being irrelevant (19.1f v 19.46f; still hits 20f either way)
• Active frame duration changes 5f -> 6f
• 5 extra frames for the move to complete in total (+1 active, +4 endlag)

Tagging Gunla

 

[Gunla]

Well this is messy. I'm not sure where these numbers came from, but...

There was a change specifically to hit 2 of Heel Slide (both versions of the initial slide kick are unchanged) where they changed a frame speed multiplier on frame 34 (real frame 17), slightly slowing down the rest of the animation. This causes:

• A decimal shift in startup that ends up being irrelevant (19.1f v 19.46f; still hits 20f either way)
• Active frame duration changes 5f -> 6f
• 5 extra frames for the move to complete in total (+1 active, +4 endlag)

Tagging Gunla

So the active frame duration is 5f -> 6f; I unfortunately don't recall the previous endlag value of 1.1.4 for Bayo's Heel Slide hit 2. If you could provide me with it I could swiftly fix the changes.

 

[Lavani]

So the active frame duration is 5f -> 6f; I unfortunately don't recall the previous endlag value of 1.1.4 for Bayo's Heel Slide hit 2. If you could provide me with it I could swiftly fix the changes.

72f -> 77f is accurate; just the active duration was off and the startup wasn't actually changed.

 

[Gunla]

72f -> 77f is accurate; just the active duration was off and the startup wasn't actually changed.

Rad. It's been updated.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Gunla
Samus super missile startup 23 to 21 is what I said.

 

[kerbykong]

In the 1.1.5 patch notes under Pikachu it is listed that his thunder jolt glitch was removed. This does not seem to be the case as I was able to reproduce the glitch in the current patch on this video.
Replays uploaded directly from my Wii U are also linked in the description to serve as my timestamp proof.

 

[Furret24]

bayonetta is fine. tshe has a high cieling and low floor. only elite bay(all like 3 of them) are getting results.
and giving her a free fall animation isnt going to happen. thats a lot of work for something they didnt want to do to begin with. its a property from her games: shes never helpless she can always do another action.

Every character has a helpless animation. Just have her touch Pac-Man's red trampoline. ;P

 

[ZeusLink]

Link has received some buffs. However, according to the Pastebin, the OLD and NEW values are swapped, and they should be the other way around.

D-smash 2 KBG 57 > 63

Dash Attack (DMG 14/13/12) KBG 78/78/72 > 85/85/77

Dash Attack Angles 45/60/70 > 45/50/55

Yay more kill power, just what Link needed . . .

R.I.P. Link