Meta "And Then Suddenly..." [1.1.5] Patch Discussion

[BLG File]

More assorted changes in the param files.

Samus Air Speed - .95 > 1.03

Samus Fastfall Speed - 2.0 > 2.08

Mewtwo Walk Speed - 1.1 > 1.2

Meta Knight F-Air Landing Lag - 20 > 16


CHARZARD BONANZA

N-Air Landing Lag - 22F > 20F

F-Air Landing Lag - 32F > 22F

B-Air Landing Lag - 33F > 24F

U-Air Landing Lag - 22F > 20F

D-Air Landing Lag - 35F > 33F

GALLOPING GRENINJA

F-Air Landing Lag - 18F > 15F

B-Air Landing Lag - 16F > 13F

U-Air Landing Lag - 16F > 15F

D-Air Landing Lag - 33F > 32F

 

[Bowserboy3]

Yes, and it has different properties that if she hits with other timings. This early hitbox leads into combos, apparently.

All of the hitboxes can lead into combos, but it used to whiff sometimes at close range. I hope this fixes that!

 

[Tetra-76]

What does this mean? Does it mean the move comes out slightly earlier?

From what I understand, yes, pretty much. Her Dash Attack is now much easier to hit with, you won't go through opponents like before, unless you're really really close when you initiate it. I use DA a lot with Falcon, and I could never get it to hit with Samus before, but now they feel very similar in terms of timing.

 

[Meshima]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...5sce3ticdza5YjoTKLOgxFhG8/edit#gid=1426837770

From M Meshima

PARAM FILES.
Red lines indicating the characters with such changes.

It's NOT mine, I just copy and paste from @Sammi Husky.

BTW, Beyo, Cloud, Sheik and ZSS has change on their param file(not related to that spread sheet).
Just my guessing from param files and I haven't confirmed;

• ZSS' Side-B FAF 59 -> 56
• Beyo's Dair FAF 42 -> 48
• Heel Slide FAF 73 -> 78
• Witch Time FAF 45 -> 50

 

[Dissent]

This line shows up twice and I don't know what it means. Did a move get faster?
"Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=30)" --> "Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=26)"

I saw this too. IIRC it was for Catch/CatchTurn/CatchDash. Those are grab, pivot grab, dash grab. Looks like it's -3 frames on the frames it grabs you on?

 

[Kofu]

Leaving this here, I'm probably wrong though. When testing Ganon's jab, the endlag didn't seem to have decreased when comparing it to Marth's FTilt. The Hero King's shield consistently came out one frame (?) before Ganon's when both used their moves at the same time. Ganon's jab definitely seems to have less endlag when using jab to jab, but not jab to another action (similar to Villager's jab). Some confirmation or debunking would be nice.

 

[Furret]

What does this mean? Does it mean the move comes out slightly earlier?

I checked the diffs there's a new hitbox that appears 2 frames before the main hitbox does. so comes out on frame 8

Zelda's Up Air now comes out faster. Confirmed by myself and Zylach.

this is not confirmed, and is false according to the diffs
it however is bigger and stronger, but not faster too

 

[Christian Kelly]

No Marth buffs then. rip marth.

 

[Bubba]

All of Zelda's grabs received horizontal range changes:

Standing Grab
10.5 -> 11.5
Dash Grab:
13.5 -> 14.5
Pivot Grab:
-15.7 -> -16.7

- cred. @Lavani

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I saw this too. IIRC it was for Catch/CatchTurn/CatchDash. Those are grab, pivot grab, dash grab. Looks like it's -3 frames on the frames it grabs you on?

That doesn't seem to match up with her grab data though. Her grabs 12/13 frames and they have end lags that are around 40-50 frames long.

 

[IsmaR]

What does this mean? Does it mean the move comes out slightly earlier?

As opposed to before, where initiating dash attack too late meant you'd most likely just run straight past/miss your opponent, there's a weaker active hitbox (7% vs the normal 10% one) that will be effective sooner/pop people up for follow ups.

 

[ReroRero]

No Marth buffs then. rip marth.

He got one hell of a buff previous patch, we can't have everything everytime

 

[Horse-KicK]

Skeptical on the supposed Bayonetta Heel Slide frame data change-if the follow-up kick really did get more endlag, it couldn't combo reliably as it does.

 

[Furret]

Samus diff expanded maybe? mostly just confirmation of stuff

• Dash attack
  • new hitbox on frame 8
  • old hitbox has an adjustment from level 2->1, no clue what that is
• Ftilt (Up/down angle)
  • damage 6/7/8/9->8/9/10/11
  • BKB on the old 6/7 hit boxes 10->20
• Ftilt
  • damage 5/6/7/8 -> 7/8/9/10
  • BKB on the old 5/6 hit boxes 10->20
• Nair
  • Damage 8/7/6->10/9/8
  • Hitbox size on late hitbox size 3.3->3.6,
  • hitbox move Z axis 5.3-5.4
• Fair
  • there are changes to fair, I'll get back to them in a sec, uh maybe
  • does include hitbox changes, hitbox angles, a new hitbox/ final hit and damaged are unaltered

there are some other changes I can't comprehend or maybe I'm too tired to comprehend

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Skeptical on the supposed Bayonetta Heel Slide frame data change-if the follow-up kick really did get more endlag, it couldn't combo reliably as it does.

Of course it can
5 frames is nothing major
This change was done to make it more punishable on shield, which is a good thing.

 

[The Wall]

Tested Yoshi. Nothing seems out of the ordinary except Down Throw. Either less BKB or KBG, one of the two... but it links into up air at kill percents and it never did that before. Opponents certainly don't get bounced nearly as much as they did before. Worth looking through the numbers to see what changed.

 

[ReroRero]

Has Sheik still the invincible frames in her Up B ?

 

[Dissent]

That doesn't seem to match up with her grab data though. Her grabs 12/13 frames and they have end lags that are around 40-50 frames long.

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/#post-20999235

All grabs

• Last active frame 29f -> 25f

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Not sure if this was true before but on charizard upthrow combos into flare blitz from 37 - 42 on fast fallers, tested on Bayo. Kills from 38, new anti Bayo tech?

 

[Shaya]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcccIxzB2tBhTxDDlJPNHd72MVQ95wG5RfnHroDgMc8/edit#gid=0

Updated my aerial safety spreadsheet for hopefully all confirmed [and possibly all total?] 1.1.5 changes~

 

[iVoltage]

Can we get a quick vid / GIF of mewtwos new speed? I'm at work right now and I'm super curious about the hype.

 

[Mellos]

@Zelda Mains
Was DThrow -> UpAir always a true combo at kill percents??
Because it now kills at town and city from roughly around 90%

 

[ぱみゅ]

iirc it is not, you have to read the opponent's DI.

 

[pikazz]

I know I should be quiet as I dont have anything to bring.

but how goes it with the diff bump maps? I am really Curious about Bayo, Jr, Puff and Dedede

 

[Lord Renning]

@Zelda Mains
Was DThrow -> UpAir always a true combo at kill percents??
Because it now kills at town and city from roughly around 90%

It set up but it was never a true confirm with DI. Have you tested with DI and airdodge?

 

[Mellos]

It set up but it was never a true confirm with DI. Have you tested with DI and airdodge?

Not yet, will do later

 

[Furret]

more confirmations from diffs

• Flare Blitz some changes to the first hit of the move
• Nair
  • Damage 10/7/7/7->12/10/10/10
  • KBG 90->78
• Fair
  • Damage 11/12->12/13
• Bair
  • Damage 16/14/11/11
  • Sweet spot hitbox size 4.5->5

@Zelda Mains
Was DThrow -> UpAir always a true combo at kill percents??
Because it now kills at town and city from roughly around 90%

you could DI away so it wouldn't true combo, Uair did get damage and range buff.
Dthrow is unchanged to my knowledge

Jr, Puff and Dedede

nothing immediate found

 

[pikazz]

nothing immediate found

Good (and sad) to know! great work :3

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Um did Kirby get anything else? Is the current stuff that's known what you have so far or is that all it?

Also this Zelda stuff is great.
And also if the peach infinite doesn't work.....does like...the front hitbox of Uair has less range or something?

 

[Dr. Tuen]

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/#post-20999235

All grabs

• Last active frame 29f -> 25f

I guess the line indicates the frame after the grab ends? All her grabs ended on frame 29, so I was confused when I saw it refer to frame 30.

Anyways, it doesn't effect end lag or start up, so I don't consider it a huge deal. The next main page update is going to be huge with all these bkb, kbg, and parameter findings!

 

[Furret]

And also if the peach infinite doesn't work.....does like...the front hitbox of Uair has less range or something?

the hitbox was modified to hit airborne opponents only, in order to get the endless to work you needed to hit grounded opponents

 

[PEPESPAIN]

bufss ladies

F-smash

• KBG 97 -> 99

F-smash(Late)

• KBG 100 -> 102

U-smash(Hit2)

• KBG 95 -> 97

U-smash(Hit2, Late)

• KBG 90 -> 92

D-smash

• KBG 84 -> 86

D-smash(Late)

• KBG 90 -> 92

B-air

• KBG 98 -> 100

 

[komodan]

-Meta Knight seems to be lighter, meeting death quicker while playing him. (decreased weight)

-His side-b seems to have a faster startup, move faster, and end faster (so faster in general, less frames?)

-Short hop seems to be shorter or both grounded jumps are shorter in height gained.

-Dash attack angle seems to have been lowered - tipper no longer sends directly up (easier to DI away?)

-Up-b seems to have less startup, quicker.

-Fall speed increased.

These are things I THINK I've noticed while playing Meta Knight, can't prove them at this point. I may be wrong about any of these, but if anyone can confirm, please let me know.

 

[Bowserboy3]

-Meta Knight seems to be lighter, meeting death quicker while playing him. (decreased weight)

-His side-b seems to have a faster startup, move faster, and end faster (so faster in general, less frames?)

-Short hop seems to be shorter or both grounded jumps are shorter in height gained.

-Dash attack angle seems to have been lowered - tipper no longer sends directly up (easier to DI away?)

-Up-b seems to have less startup, quicker.

-Fall speed increased.

These are things I THINK I've noticed while playing Meta Knight, can't prove them at this point. I may be wrong about any of these, but if anyone can confirm, please let me know.

Seems unlikely they'd buff Meta Knight out of all characters. Best to wait and see.

 

[bc1910]

@LordWilliam1234 On your most recent post...

"

Dash Attack start-up reduced, from 9 -> 7. Total frames reduced from 32 -> 30."

...could you elaborate as the numbers don't add up? On Kurogane, Greninja's DA FAF is 33. So either DA startup was reduced from 9 -> 6 (as originally noted in the patch notes thread) or the FAF is 31. Kurogane could also be wrong but that's unlikely.

 

[Yikarur]

Greninjas dash attack hits on frame 7 and total frames are 30.

9-12 -> 7-10 / 32 -> 30

 

[jigglesthepuff]

let me guess, puff didn't get any changes?

 

[jespoke]

@LordWilliam1234 On your most recent post...

"

Dash Attack start-up reduced, from 9 -> 7. Total frames reduced from 32 -> 30."

...could you elaborate as the numbers don't add up? On Kurogane, Greninja's DA FAF is 33. So either DA startup was reduced from 9 -> 6 (as originally noted in the patch notes thread) or the FAF is 31. Kurogane could also be wrong but that's unlikely.

FAF is the first frame you can act on, so it is the duration of the attack +1

 

[bc1910]

Oh crap I misread his post, thanks.

So the DA was buffed by 2 frames and not 3? Annoying, but meh.

Actually I technically wasn't completely wrong - it does mean the FAF is 31.

 

[New_Dumal]

Droping as a character.
Still good, but I don't want to touch that kill problems.
It's hard to drop a character after so much time invested.

Who's next number 1 ?
Bayonetta was not hard nerfed, right ?

I hate this character being at Smash, but the nerfs were way too stupid.