Meta "And Then Suddenly..." [1.1.5] Patch Discussion

[Solutionme]

Ganondorf moves faster on the ground. I tested it via extended dash dancing and he's more spaced apart between each turn.

Zelda's uair deals 17% now, a 2% buff. Her nair deals 15% now, a 4% buff.

Charizard's nair deals 2% more on the sour and sweetspots. Dealing 9 and 12 respectively. His up-b has more distance now, he has more aerial mobility, his jumps jump higher and he has less landing lag on uair, bair and fair.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Whoops, wrong list.. Yea Samus, Shiek, ZSS, and Zelda have changed moveset files as well.

Doing some labbing with Lucario. Seems that in 1.1.15 in training mode you can ASC to Jump Cancel USmash at 47 (when Dr. Mario is hit twice by ASC) and it combos. That should not be the case according to @Eeveecario 's hit stun calculator if Aura Sphere Charge still had 10 base kb and 93 knockback gain (which according to Kuroganehammer it did in 1.1.14). Nobody in the Lucario Discord has been able to get that to combo in 1.1.14 yet.

In other words ASC got more hitstun in 1.1.15? We need someone to look at the raw game data to check if it is true.

ASC prepatch according to the calculator should do 14 frames of hitstun at the percents mentioned above, USmash comes out on frame 15, sooooooo.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Everyone waiting for that Sheik Diff

 

[iLink]

List of changed ACMD scripts

Spoiler

data\fighter\bayonetta\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\bayonetta\script\animcmd\weapon\wickedweavearm\game.bin
data\fighter\cloud\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\duckhunt\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\ganon\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\gekkouga\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\kamui\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\kamui\script\animcmd\weapon\ryusensya\game.bin
data\fighter\kirby\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\link\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\lizardon\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\lizardon\script\animcmd\weapon\explosion\game.bin
data\fighter\metaknight\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\mewtwo\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\pacman\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\palutena\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\peach\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\reflet\script\animcmd\body\game.bin

Will be doing diffs as fast as i can get to them~

Surely this isn't all the characters that got a change, correct? Since it has shiek and samus missing.

EDIT: Ah this is late lol

 

[IceGoat]

My numbers are saying otherwise. Gonna need some proof or something.

I used to kill Greninja consistently around 130, now ~160.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Sheik dthrow sends at a more harder to confirm hit, 50/50s should still work but shes probably has to stale it and be frame perfect.

 

[Colony]

Yoshi's dair was nerfed -2%, full move now does 32%

Uhhh... it's always done that percent. They never change Yoshi.

 

[FlynnCL]

Sheik's down-throw going from 75 KBG to 90 is quite a big difference.

Forward air lost 1 unit of range. Down-smash got a bit stronger (155 > 165 KBG).

 

[Sammi Husky]

Sheik:

• Dsmash kbg 155 -> 165
• Fair defensive hitbox Z pos 3.5 -> 2.5
• Fair hitbox Z pos 3.5 -> 2.5
• Fthrow angle 70 -> 72
• Fthrow KBG 65 -> 79
• Dthrow Angle 80 -> 77
• Dthrow KBG 75 -> 90

 

[Furil]

Duck Hunt

Fsmash KBG on last hit 123 -> 125
Dsmash KBG on last hit 153 -> 155
Usmash KBG on last hit 110 -> 112

 

[FullMoon]

ピーチの空上連アプデ後 どうやら対地性能がほぼなくなった模様！！！！ https://t.co/cBoSNl4XuS

— ガイジークラッセ｜ほわほわゲーミング｜つついまままんさんだが🅙♀ダークうめきキッズベレス使い (@smnsssssss) March 16, 2016

RIP Peach's infinite.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Duck Hunt

Fsmash KBG on last hit 123 -> 125
Dsmash KBG on last hit 153 -> 155
Usmash KBG on last hit 110 -> 112

Are those all the changes for DHD?

 

[Gengarlord]

Didn't Ganondorf's jab get sped up? Think it starts on Frame 7 instead of Frame 11 now, and it feels like it has less ending lag, as well.

 

[GerudoKong]

Uthrow on is nerfed, Bowser can't act out of it as fast.

 

[Boomuki]

Peach can't upair cancel anymore? ... that really sucks

 

[Myran]

I used to kill Greninja consistently around 130, now ~160.

Your numbers are going against mine and the others I've talked to. Are you sure you aren't just mixing up rage values?

Also myself and some other Olimars are finding it impossible to get Olimar's grab to whiff. So there had to have been some change to it's hitbox, but the data mining doesn't say anything.

 

[MitchyD]

Falco's jabs, pummel, fair nair and bair all feel faster to me coming out, can anyone else confirm?

 

[S_B]

Uthrow on is nerfed, Bowser can't act out of it as fast.

feels the exact same here and the Bowser discord can't find any changes.

 

[Gengarlord]

It seems that the horizontal angle that Meta Knight's up air now sends opponents at MIGHT help it set-up into an Up-B, but only if it knocks them cowards. Sometimes it knocks opponents backwards if you don't position it right, but it looks like it might now be able to combo into Up-B better, possibly?

 

[Masonomace]

Ganondorf moves faster on the ground. I tested it via extended dash dancing and he's more spaced apart between each turn.

Zelda's uair deals 17% now, a 2% buff. Her nair deals 15% now, a 4% buff.

Charizard's nair deals 2% more on the sour and sweetspots. Dealing 9 and 12 respectively. His up-b has more distance now, he has more aerial mobility, his jumps jump higher and he has less landing lag on uair, bair and fair.

I don't have a noticeable difference for Charizard's jump heights since they land on the same height of platform I use for custom stage testing, but his air speed definitely got better.

1.1.4 Charizard had 0.87 air speed, but now, 1.1.5 Charizard has air speed that rivals Falco's air speed value, which is 0.93. Although, I didn't notice a change with Fly's vertical height & his midair jump heights, so those would probably need two systems to compare side-by-side.

 

[Clamhat]

Cloud diff
Peach diff

so, one of 's uair hitboxes doesn't hit grounded opponents anymore.

 

[MitchyD]

Falco's Down Smash does 15% uncharged throughout the entire move. Can't seem to get that 12% hit.

Do his fair bair and nair feel faster to you or is am i just being optimistic?

 

[FlynnCL]

Another change for Zelda.

Forward tilt now hits on frame 10 rather than 12 and its total length is now 37 frames, down from 39.

 

[solomontc]

Bayo's triple jump remains
Ness's dair is faster, might spike easier?

 

[Tetra-76]

Sheik:

• Dsmash kbg 155 -> 165
• Fair defensive hitbox Z pos 3.5 -> 2.5
• Fair hitbox Z pos 3.5 -> 2.5
• Fthrow angle 70 -> 72
• Fthrow KBG 65 -> 79
• Dthrow Angle 80 -> 77
• Dthrow KBG 75 -> 90

So they nerfed Fair's range a bit... Is it possible for Furil to show us the new hitbox, so we can compare it to the old one?

 

[probationsmack]

Ok so I play ganon, its been a rough life since launch. Anyway Im noticing something WEIRD about dair all of a sudden. On whiff you can do short hop ff dairs one after another with minimal lag, but no other move except for another dair works. Its like how previously he can use b specials after a whiffed fair really quick for some odd reason. You unfortuneatly can't thunderstomp with this becuse hitlag upon contact with the opponent overides this phenomena. Also you can 'autocancel' fair into jab but thats misleading. If you land with fair while the animation starts but before the hitbox occurs I'm managing to get an immediate startup on jab to happen. I mean, I don't think this is placebo, I've been scouring ways to make ganon's frame data more effecient and I'm just now seeing this crazy shhhhhiiiiii...

edit: Come to think of it the dair thing means you can just jump sooner and therefore do any aerial afterwards, i can't seem to get anything else besides jump to come out quicker compared to the lag im used to on dair from before.

edit 2: I'm just gonna let someone better at this figure it out. I'm starting to get tilts to comeafter of sh ff dair. There's some autocancel window here that was only available to full hop ff dair in the older patch. Right now its literally the shortest height immediate fast fall into buffered input.

 

[Furil]

Here's a diffcheck of the game.bin I posted earlier.
Easier to read this way.
https://www.diffchecker.com/zyqbvb7h

Bayonetta
Up special Damage 4.0 -> 3.0
Up special Damage 3.0 -> 2.0
Up special Damage 0.3 -> 0.2
Dair? Frame Duration on frame 34 0.7 -> 0.82 (I don't know what this means, it's slower?)

 

[SM Mystic]

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://twitter.com/SilentDo0m/status/709965378869456897&h=xAQGOzUjQ Mewtwo now as fast as Sheik
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://twitter.com/smnsssssss/status/709964461323501568&h=IAQFHhrlx Peach Up Air changed. Lost infinite

 

[Sammi Husky]

Greninja got some love

Dash attack sped up (9 -> 6 ?)
standing grab startup frame 14 -> 11

 

[theanjo]

Do his fair bair and nair feel faster to you or is am i just being optimistic?

Can't say for sure. I didn't notice anything. Might have to wait and see, since eyeballing frame data isn't something I can do at the moment. Pretty sure Falco isn't on the diffchecker list.

 

[Gengarlord]

WE NEED TEH DATA MINAHS!!!

 

[Meshima]

ZSS has so many changes...

edit;
Zelda

edit2;
Ganondorf
Kirby

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon (Aside from the changes already listed):

Jab comes out at 7 frames and ends at 28 frames (before it was 8-9 to 34). The damage input has also changed, but that's accurately listed in the front page already.

Wizard foot does 14/12 (hard/soft) from 12/10 and has much more knockback, turning itself into a kill move.

Uair has changed angle in its knockback, it knocks the opponent more straight now.

 

[Furil]

For those curious of the Sheik fair change:

Spoiler: Before

Spoiler: After

 

[Steeler]

they added a few new unknown parameters to the first hitbox of flare blitz (while zard is charging, not the explosion)

old
Hitbox(ID=0, Part=0, Bone=18, Damage=4.0, Angle=60, KBG=80, FKB=0, BKB=60, Size=4.5, Z=0.0, Y=0.0, X=0.0, Effect=5, Trip=0.0, Hitlag=1.0, SDI=1.0, Clang=1, Unknown=0, ShieldDamage=0, SFXType=2, Ground/Air=8, Direct/Indirect=3, Unknown=1, Unknown=2)
Script_End()


new
Special_Hitbox(ID=0, Part=0, Bone=18, Damage=4.0, Angle=60, KBG=80, FKB=0, BKB=60, Size=4.5, Z=0.0, Y=0.0, X=0.0, Effect=5, Trip=0.0, Hitlag=1.0, SDI=1.0, Clang=1, Unknown=0, ShieldDamage=0, SFXType=2, Ground/Air=8, Direct/Indirect=3, Unknown=1, Unknown=2, Unknown=63, Unknown=0, Unknown=15, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=3, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0)
Script_End()

IF ANYONE CAN FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT THOSE CHANGES ARE, I WILL DO DIRTY THINGS FOR YOU

 

[Pancracio17]

Bayo got nerfed in damage in some moves fair combo now does 12 instead of 13, grounded side be combo does 14 instead of 15 and up b does 7 instead of 8. There may be more but i cant test anymore

 

[BLG File]

Link has received some buffs. However, according to the Pastebin, the OLD and NEW values are swapped, and they should be the other way around.

D-smash 2 KBG 57 > 63

Dash Attack (DMG 14/13/12) KBG 78/78/72 > 85/85/77

Dash Attack Angles 45/60/70 > 45/50/55

Yay more kill power, just what Link needed . . .

 

[Sammi Husky]

Link dump

dash attack:

• hitbox 1 KBG 78 -> 85
• hitbox 2 KBG 78 -> 85
• Hitbox 2 angle 60 -> 50
• hitbox 3 angle 70 -> 55
• hitbox 3 KBG 72 -> 77

Dsmash:

• second hit all hitboxes KBG 57 -> 63

 

[Meshima]

Charizard
Metaknight
Pacman

 

[Sammi Husky]

Mewtwo

Nair:

• All hitboxes except final one size increased from 2.3 -> 3