Meta "And Then Suddenly..." [1.1.5] Patch Discussion

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Solutionme

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#81
Ganondorf moves faster on the ground. I tested it via extended dash dancing and he's more spaced apart between each turn.

Zelda's uair deals 17% now, a 2% buff. Her nair deals 15% now, a 4% buff.

Charizard's nair deals 2% more on the sour and sweetspots. Dealing 9 and 12 respectively. His up-b has more distance now, he has more aerial mobility, his jumps jump higher and he has less landing lag on uair, bair and fair.
 
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#82
Whoops, wrong list.. Yea Samus, Shiek, ZSS, and Zelda have changed moveset files as well.
Doing some labbing with Lucario. Seems that in 1.1.15 in training mode you can ASC to Jump Cancel USmash at 47 (when Dr. Mario is hit twice by ASC) and it combos. That should not be the case according to @Eeveecario 's hit stun calculator if Aura Sphere Charge still had 10 base kb and 93 knockback gain (which according to Kuroganehammer it did in 1.1.14). Nobody in the Lucario Discord has been able to get that to combo in 1.1.14 yet.

In other words ASC got more hitstun in 1.1.15? We need someone to look at the raw game data to check if it is true.

ASC prepatch according to the calculator should do 14 frames of hitstun at the percents mentioned above, USmash comes out on frame 15, sooooooo.
 
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iLink

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#84
List of changed ACMD scripts

data\fighter\bayonetta\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\bayonetta\script\animcmd\weapon\wickedweavearm\game.bin
data\fighter\cloud\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\duckhunt\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\ganon\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\gekkouga\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\kamui\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\kamui\script\animcmd\weapon\ryusensya\game.bin
data\fighter\kirby\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\link\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\lizardon\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\lizardon\script\animcmd\weapon\explosion\game.bin
data\fighter\metaknight\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\mewtwo\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\pacman\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\palutena\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\peach\script\animcmd\body\game.bin
data\fighter\reflet\script\animcmd\body\game.bin

Will be doing diffs as fast as i can get to them~
Surely this isn't all the characters that got a change, correct? Since it has shiek and samus missing.

EDIT: Ah this is late lol
 
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#86
Sheik dthrow sends at a more harder to confirm hit, 50/50s should still work but shes probably has to stale it and be frame perfect.
 

FullMoon

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#91

RIP Peach's infinite.
 

Myran

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#96
I used to kill Greninja consistently around 130, now ~160.
Your numbers are going against mine and the others I've talked to. Are you sure you aren't just mixing up rage values?

Also myself and some other Olimars are finding it impossible to get Olimar's grab to whiff. So there had to have been some change to it's hitbox, but the data mining doesn't say anything.
 
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MitchyD

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#97
Falco's jabs, pummel, fair nair and bair all feel faster to me coming out, can anyone else confirm?
 

Gengarlord

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#99
It seems that the horizontal angle that Meta Knight's up air now sends opponents at MIGHT help it set-up into an Up-B, but only if it knocks them cowards. Sometimes it knocks opponents backwards if you don't position it right, but it looks like it might now be able to combo into Up-B better, possibly?
 

Masonomace

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Ganondorf moves faster on the ground. I tested it via extended dash dancing and he's more spaced apart between each turn.

Zelda's uair deals 17% now, a 2% buff. Her nair deals 15% now, a 4% buff.

Charizard's nair deals 2% more on the sour and sweetspots. Dealing 9 and 12 respectively. His up-b has more distance now, he has more aerial mobility, his jumps jump higher and he has less landing lag on uair, bair and fair.
I don't have a noticeable difference for Charizard's jump heights since they land on the same height of platform I use for custom stage testing, but his air speed definitely got better.

1.1.4 Charizard had 0.87 air speed, but now, 1.1.5 Charizard has air speed that rivals Falco's air speed value, which is 0.93. Although, I didn't notice a change with Fly's vertical height & his midair jump heights, so those would probably need two systems to compare side-by-side.
 

Tetra-76

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Sheik:
  • Dsmash kbg 155 -> 165
  • Fair defensive hitbox Z pos 3.5 -> 2.5
  • Fair hitbox Z pos 3.5 -> 2.5
  • Fthrow angle 70 -> 72
  • Fthrow KBG 65 -> 79
  • Dthrow Angle 80 -> 77
  • Dthrow KBG 75 -> 90
So they nerfed Fair's range a bit... Is it possible for Furil to show us the new hitbox, so we can compare it to the old one?
 
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Ok so I play ganon, its been a rough life since launch. Anyway Im noticing something WEIRD about dair all of a sudden. On whiff you can do short hop ff dairs one after another with minimal lag, but no other move except for another dair works. Its like how previously he can use b specials after a whiffed fair really quick for some odd reason. You unfortuneatly can't thunderstomp with this becuse hitlag upon contact with the opponent overides this phenomena. Also you can 'autocancel' fair into jab but thats misleading. If you land with fair while the animation starts but before the hitbox occurs I'm managing to get an immediate startup on jab to happen. I mean, I don't think this is placebo, I've been scouring ways to make ganon's frame data more effecient and I'm just now seeing this crazy shhhhhiiiiii...

edit: Come to think of it the dair thing means you can just jump sooner and therefore do any aerial afterwards, i can't seem to get anything else besides jump to come out quicker compared to the lag im used to on dair from before.

edit 2: I'm just gonna let someone better at this figure it out. I'm starting to get tilts to comeafter of sh ff dair. There's some autocancel window here that was only available to full hop ff dair in the older patch. Right now its literally the shortest height immediate fast fall into buffered input.
 
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theanjo

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Do his fair bair and nair feel faster to you or is am i just being optimistic?
Can't say for sure. I didn't notice anything. Might have to wait and see, since eyeballing frame data isn't something I can do at the moment. Pretty sure Falco isn't on the diffchecker list.
 
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Ray_Kalm

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Ganon (Aside from the changes already listed):

Jab comes out at 7 frames and ends at 28 frames (before it was 8-9 to 34). The damage input has also changed, but that's accurately listed in the front page already.

Wizard foot does 14/12 (hard/soft) from 12/10 and has much more knockback, turning itself into a kill move.

Uair has changed angle in its knockback, it knocks the opponent more straight now.
 
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Steeler

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they added a few new unknown parameters to the first hitbox of flare blitz (while zard is charging, not the explosion)

old
Hitbox(ID=0, Part=0, Bone=18, Damage=4.0, Angle=60, KBG=80, FKB=0, BKB=60, Size=4.5, Z=0.0, Y=0.0, X=0.0, Effect=5, Trip=0.0, Hitlag=1.0, SDI=1.0, Clang=1, Unknown=0, ShieldDamage=0, SFXType=2, Ground/Air=8, Direct/Indirect=3, Unknown=1, Unknown=2)
Script_End()


new
Special_Hitbox(ID=0, Part=0, Bone=18, Damage=4.0, Angle=60, KBG=80, FKB=0, BKB=60, Size=4.5, Z=0.0, Y=0.0, X=0.0, Effect=5, Trip=0.0, Hitlag=1.0, SDI=1.0, Clang=1, Unknown=0, ShieldDamage=0, SFXType=2, Ground/Air=8, Direct/Indirect=3, Unknown=1, Unknown=2, Unknown=63, Unknown=0, Unknown=15, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=3, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0, Unknown=0)
Script_End()

IF ANYONE CAN FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT THOSE CHANGES ARE, I WILL DO DIRTY THINGS FOR YOU
 
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