Alright guys, we've got **** to do

[Jane]

You definitely shouldnt throw away reds in the peach mu. Red fair > everything

 

[Tin Man]

i helped to ;-;

thats cuz u have a MK avi >.>

I think he took it down.

so, im going to tourney this weekend brood is attending, everyone wish me luck on out-placing him :/

U got dis brah, Olimar dittos, take em out!

 

[ToferTheHuman]

I hope you do good Dabuz!

Echo, I am on through my phone and will read that eventually.

 

[B.A.M.]

u guys should learn DDP fsmash or dsmash. ex: dash right then dash right left and fsmash quickly ( the speed of a stutter step for the last three parts.) again u can do it with dsmash as well. might aid u guys with spacing. Oli's need to get down the basics. It seriously boggles my mind that people werent aware of JC Usmash OoS. I mean any1 who says Usmash OoS means JC Usmash OoS. Same goes for boost pivot grabs and stutter steps. Olimars learning just those simple few techs and buffering will do astronomically better.

 

[Dotcom]

Imma see you there Dabuz!
Did someone test if we could USmash OOs Wario's Dair?
I would test it but someone stole my brawl :/

 

[Dabuz]

2 things, one, thanks people, i need that luck to outplace brood :3

two, this is diddy and wario related, we can DACUS into bananas and tires respectively to pick them up and do our upsmash, while it is somewhat situational, its definitely something to make the diddy MU easier by at least a few points

edit: dotcom, i didn't actually test it, but from experience i can safely say if we have our upsmashes hitbox out by the time wario's dair hitbox just starts, we beat it

 

[DtJ Hilt]

According to Pyronic, you can up smash Wario if he dairs nad lands near you, but not during his Dair. He said don't do it too early.

 

[-Vocal-]

the pikmin management of throwing and getting reds and whites out i really only saw brood do vs MKs, vs ally and lee martins luca he didnt do it near as much but probly because the whites can bait luca into nairing pikmin off for a free punish and itl weakn snakes tilts but as of course with MK a white will only really weakn his nair, which while good its not something that the others colors cant pull off since u probly wont get any damage latching a pikmin on MK anyway.

I did notice brood knows the MK and snake MUs really well i even saw him in another vid vs an MK and he really seems to have it down.

He also does a very nice mix up of fsmash to buffer grab, grab to buffer fsmash, pivot grab to buffer grab/fmash mixups as most of u have probly seen.

He did really well at getting the nades out of the way vs snake by power shielding them so they would hit the shield and fly over him, or throw pikmin in the way of the nade, and when ally pulled a nade out he didnt just grab him he piviot grabbed him to get the nade completely out of the way so hed be safe.

He also never whistled to arrange pikmin when he got a kill he only used dsmash and upsmash and he would sometimes use the pikmin toss as well, but to shuffle them while still trying to get a kill hed dmsash and upsmash and pikmin throw along with upair to get to the next purp as i saw many times or to shuffle some more.

i also saw that when he was arranging pikmin after getting a kill he would set them up for different things like putting a blue then a purple so when he gets the double upsmash he gets a blue then purp for max damage or hed set them up for the traditional dthrow > upsmash combo but he seemed to like to set up for the double upsmash instead of setting up for the dthrow combo on MK but on snake he seemed to op for the dthrow combo

i also saw when he was planking the ledge with upairs he would sometimes fall and upair then jump back up and upair then grab the ledge so his opponent couldnt run and attack him while he was falling

also i dont think we should be punishing everything little thing with usmashoos. Now obviously if its in a MU where it changes the whole MU like luigis nair and peaches dair or at low % then yes of course we're gonna use the hell out of it (tho i wouldnt start using it at low %s yet since no one knows about it right now), but in a MU like MK where theres plenty of things we could punish with it i think we should keep it hidden and just either not punish something or punish it some other way so when they do glide or whatever at u at 80%~ and they glide attack ur shield or whatever move we can punish with it u have a automatic ko and same goes for other MUs that dont necessarily need it to make the MU even or in our favor so we can use it as a nice little "its a trap!" kill move like nair to upsmash used to be, but this is still our best option out of shield by far

i thought id wright a little of what i saw in broods vids that iv been watching just in case it helped at all, tho some of it may seem obvious i do hope this helped at least a little bit <3 (goo)

also imo i think the only time we need to really get rid of whites and reds like brood did vs m2k is in our bad MUs like peach, luigi, MK, and marth, not so much against ROB tho

Nice observations Echo. If I get the time today I'm just gonna start picking apart some of his videos; i have plans with a friend tonight but I don't sleep so it's not like that's gonna be a problem

so, im going to tourney this weekend brood is attending, everyone wish me luck on out-placing him :/

Good luck dabuz! Get on your A game

You definitely shouldnt throw away reds in the peach mu. Red fair > everything

^

u guys should learn DDP fsmash or dsmash. ex: dash right then dash right left and fsmash quickly ( the speed of a stutter step for the last three parts.) again u can do it with dsmash as well. might aid u guys with spacing. Oli's need to get down the basics. It seriously boggles my mind that people werent aware of JC Usmash OoS. I mean any1 who says Usmash OoS means JC Usmash OoS. Same goes for boost pivot grabs and stutter steps. Olimars learning just those simple few techs and buffering will do astronomically better.

We've known about boost pivot grabs and stutter steps, but this new tech you mention sounds interesting. You mean you can perform what, for all intents and purposes, is a pivot Fsmash out of the running animation? As in, I could run from the right side of FD all the way over to the left and then immediately turn around and Fsmash? I tried the other night to find a way to do this and the best I came up with was wait for the dash animation to finish (which isn't long, but long enough for an opponent to notice) and then immediately Fsmash. Could you write different instructions? The ones you provided are a bit misleading, since I'm doing that and can't get it to happen (unless you're talking about an ordinary stutterstep).

2 things, one, thanks people, i need that luck to outplace brood :3

two, this is diddy and wario related, we can DACUS into bananas and tires respectively to pick them up and do our upsmash, while it is somewhat situational, its definitely something to make the diddy MU easier by at least a few points

edit: dotcom, i didn't actually test it, but from experience i can safely say if we have our upsmashes hitbox out by the time wario's dair hitbox just starts, we beat it

Interesting. I just might practice my DACUS for this.

 

[*_Echo_*]

good luck dabuz! :D... (and brood >.>).. (tho he cant understand me) <3

Nice observations Echo. If I get the time today I'm just gonna start picking apart some of his videos; i have plans with a friend tonight but I don't sleep so it's not like that's gonna be a problem.

thanx vocal and no u dont T_T i only stayed up till 6:30 XP

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Good thing to know, Dabuz. For some reason I never thought of doing that with Olimar's dacus, and it always pissed me off when I'd dash attack instead of hyphen smash when there's an item nearby.

 

[Noa.]

Dabuz what tourney are you going to tomorrow with Brood and Dotcom? I want to watch the live stream when it comes up.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Don't you dare lose to Anti, Dabuz.

 

[*_Echo_*]

Good stuff Echo, a few of those I didn't notice. I'll need to watch the videos as well and see what I can see.

thanx hilt <3 i edited it like all night lol and added pikmin colors :D

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Just thought I'd point something out. White hitstun is enough to combo into just about anything you want within 0-9%. Red and White Down Throw deal less than 10% (6% for white, 9% for red). Red or White Dthrow to White Up Smash to Up Smash/Fair/Neutral is a legit combo. The only thing is that you have to get the red dthrow at 0%, and the white dthrow between 0 - 3%. White Up Smash is the only Up Smash with altering hitstun.

Since I have to retest a good portion of my hitlag/hitstun data that I did earlier, I'm going to start with Up Smash.

Edit: Hitlag changes with Move Decay -_-

 

[-Vocal-]

Just thought I'd point something out. White hitstun is enough to combo into just about anything you want within 0-9%. Red and White Down Throw deal less than 10% (6% for white, 9% for red). Red or White Dthrow to White Up Smash to Up Smash/Fair/Neutral is a legit combo. The only thing is that you have to get the red dthrow at 0%, and the white dthrow between 0 - 3%. White Up Smash is the only Up Smash with altering hitstun.

Since I have to retest a good portion of my hitlag/hitstun data that I did earlier, I'm going to start with Up Smash.

Edit: Hitlag changes with Move Decay -_-

I COULD HALP!

And that's a sweet combo - I know how I'm arranging MY line!

 

[*_Echo_*]

i noticed we should probly throw out reds and whites vs ICs as well

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Yeah Vocal, I'll probably be asking for your help really, really soon XD

Lemme get a process down for how I'm going to test things and I'll let you know today.

 

[-Vocal-]

Yeah Vocal, I'll probably be asking for your help really, really soon XD

Lemme get a process down for how I'm going to test things and I'll let you know today.

Alright, I'm goin 2 see a show tonight so just send me a PM or an offline on AIM

 

[Dabuz]

Dabuz what tourney are you going to tomorrow with Brood and Dotcom? I want to watch the live stream when it comes up.

its actually sunday, there is one saturday as well but the person i normally get rides from can't go so i only have one chance to outplace brood this weekend (and probably lifetime >_>)

thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283339

 

[Tin Man]

2 things, one, thanks people, i need that luck to outplace brood :3

two, this is diddy and wario related, we can DACUS into bananas and tires respectively to pick them up and do our upsmash, while it is somewhat situational, its definitely something to make the diddy MU easier by at least a few points

edit: dotcom, i didn't actually test it, but from experience i can safely say if we have our upsmashes hitbox out by the time wario's dair hitbox just starts, we beat it

dayum son, dats hard text to read xD

Good thing to know, Dabuz. For some reason I never thought of doing that with Olimar's dacus, and it always pissed me off when I'd dash attack instead of hyphen smash when there's an item nearby.

We figured this out so late because we don't have the snake mentality of Dacus. Thats some 08 **** right there lol.

Don't you dare lose to Anti, Dabuz.

Beat who Brood can't beat *wishes chibo was going to this now*

 

[-Vocal-]

Beat who Brood can't beat *wishes chibo was going to this now*

Don't be silly. Dabuz beat Chibo?

We all know that matchup is impossible.

 

[Dabuz]

well, i did take off a $5.00 MM from chibo almost a year ago, impossible MU or not ;_;

 

[ScAtt77]

Just thought I'd point something out. White hitstun is enough to combo into just about anything you want within 0-9%. Red and White Down Throw deal less than 10% (6% for white, 9% for red). Red or White Dthrow to White Up Smash to Up Smash/Fair/Neutral is a legit combo. The only thing is that you have to get the red dthrow at 0%, and the white dthrow between 0 - 3%. White Up Smash is the only Up Smash with altering hitstun.

Since I have to retest a good portion of my hitlag/hitstun data that I did earlier, I'm going to start with Up Smash.

Edit: Hitlag changes with Move Decay -_-

So, i'm guessing that sh dair still doesn't work?

 

[-Vocal-]

well, i did take off a $5.00 MM from chibo almost a year ago, impossible MU or not ;_;

You are a god among men

 

[Tin Man]

Definitely the best Olimar

(so i decided to post in magenta to celebrate being pranked)

 

[Noa.]

So in light of everyone talking about every little thing, what are the ATs that people are bringing up as important? We really need to keep track of this.

Usmash OoS, jumpcanceled if you have tap jump off

Instant Return

Reverse JC Usmash

That Weruop Tech that Shuffles pikmin to the end of the line

Am I missing anything else.

Oh and what Fino was talking about the other day in the chat. He said that if your opponent shields usmash you have a guranteed dsmash. That is so legit and I used it on everyone on Saturday. Got a lot of kills from people dropping their shields early. It's so good.

 

[Jane]

Draco the upsmash oos is jumpcancelled regardless of tap jump being on or off ;P

 

[Dnyce]

Oh and what Fino was talking about the other day in the chat. He said that if your opponent shields usmash you have a guranteed dsmash. That is so legit and I used it on everyone on Saturday. Got a lot of kills from people dropping their shields early. It's so good.

Depends on the frame advantage of the other char, it doesn't work on everyone... and will work on people if they don't expect it / are scared. The reason it works really well is because usmash (at point blank range) has massive shield / slide stun (comparative to brawl). The only way to beat it out really is by using a safe OoS option that can out prioritize the dsmash (like Wario Nairing out of shield). Lots of people try to shield grab.... but they're too far out of range, lol.

Also, add platform canceling to that list.

 

[Noa.]

What is platform canceling and why is it useful?

I've forgotten. Excuse me for my ignorance lol.

 

[-Vocal-]

What is platform canceling and why is it useful?

I've forgotten. Excuse me for my ignorance lol.

I JUST learned this the other day, and there are actually two techs that go by this name (though the second may have a dif name)

1) While rising through a moving platform, smash down just as you pass through it to land on the platform without having to finish the rise of your jump. You can do this on SV, Lylat, YI, and I think RC.

2) While dashing on a platform, hit down to initiate a drop down and then hit shield to cancel the drop and remain on the platform. This allows you to quickly transition from dashing into an Fsmash, for instance. (It may also work with other things besides dashing, and you also pick up items if they're on the ground when you do it.)

edit: And yes, I think that's a good list. The other big thing is pikmin management, but that's not really a tech. Is anyone ever going to make that usoos thread? It really needs to be done. Like I said before, if no one else feels like running it, I can set up the thread and just update with new results

 

[Dnyce]

1) While rising through a moving platform, smash down just as you pass through it to land on the platform without having to finish the rise of your jump. You can do this on SV, Lylat, YI, and I think RC.

Hit down on your cstick just as your feet are near the platform. You can also do it with shield, shield + down, or downB. Each one is slightly different.

 

[Noa.]

Ok that's what I thought it was, just not too sure. It's a bit stage specific and even then pretty situational but I'll keep it in mind.

And Vocal the usmash oos thread has been made.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Basically from what Espy and Nike told me about Platform canceling, it gives you zero lag from landing on the platform. Allowing you to perform something, like a grab.

 

[Noa.]

Yes but I can't think of any situations that I would want that to happen. My opponent would have to be on the platform if I wanted anything to hit but an fsmash. But in that case why am I landing on the platform and why not just uair or usmash instead?

On the smashville platform it could be useful for people who are platform camping. But no one platform camps Oli like they would to Falco and Icies.

At this point I don't see how it's that useful, especially if it works only on a couple of stages.

 

[Greward]

platform cancel with olimar sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfuilTWZF0

Mr R is the best player in the world using platform cancel XD

 

[-Vocal-]

platform cancel with olimar sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfuilTWZF0

Mr R is the best player in the world using platform cancel XD

Be careful - the Japanese might hear you say that

 

[Dnyce]

Yes but I can't think of any situations that I would want that to happen. My opponent would have to be on the platform if I wanted anything to hit but an fsmash. But in that case why am I landing on the platform and why not just uair or usmash instead?

On the smashville platform it could be useful for people who are platform camping. But no one platform camps Oli like they would to Falco and Icies.

At this point I don't see how it's that useful, especially if it works only on a couple of stages.

Narrow minded *sigh*

With platform canceling you open up a ton of options in terms of approaches and mind games in your movement whether they are in the air or on the ground.

You should know how important movement and options are draco.

Since I know you will want an example anyways...
Say mk is dair camping you, waiting for you to jump so he can nado. You jump in the air and throw a pikmin, and he starts his nado. You use your second jump to platform cancel into a shield, and now you can punish the nado. Or you can platform cancel, get both your jumps back, and space a nair. Or you could use the fact that your running speed is faster than your air speed, platform cancel, dash and edge cancel a b-reverse tether (not incredibly hard to do).

Getting any edge in the game is worth learning, not taking it is just limiting yourself and helping your opponent

At this point, I don't see how DK's completely invincible upB and sonic's spin dash priority increase on Yoshi's Island and Pictochat are useful, especially since they only work on two stages (and one will always get banned). //mock

 

[Noa.]

Heck, all I'm saying is that it's situational.

I'll learn it and keep it in mind.

 

[Dnyce]

Heck, all I'm saying is that it's situational.

I'll learn it and keep it in mind.

What is Instant Return then?

lol...

 

[-Vocal-]

Alright guys we get it - everything's situational, none of it's useful, all of it's useful, situational is just a state of mind, and Bob Saget is secretly the best Olimar in the universe