Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Bowserboy3]

So is Rosalina really clinging onto her top tier position now?

 

[TDK]

Whoever says Roslin a isn'the top 10, you can shut up now.

 

[|RK|]

I'm starting to notice a trend here. I keep saying it's player more than character, and it seems like just as we (and the top players) start to write a top character off, they figure out more things and level up.

So Nairo with ZSS and Dabuz & Kirihara with Rosa. These characters are too deep to be figured out already. Many Smash 4 characters are.

Also, as someone else said in the other thread... there are more than 10 top 10 characters. Can we stop calling it that now?

 

[Aaron1997]

I've noticed this.

Japanese players are so good at Masking their characters weeknesses. Much better than USA players

Notice how Kirihara is the best Rosa without luma?

Tsu has a very good neutral dispite his characters limitations in the neutral

Shuton makes a character with poor mobility look like at times

I rarely see a Japanese Dog get gimped to anyone thats not

I don't know where to start on Ranai

I can go on and on with this

 

[DanGR]

Whoever says Roslin a isn'the top 10, you can shut up now.

This is guaranteed why exactly?

 

[Nu~]

I've noticed this.

Japanese players are so good at Masking their characters weeknesses. Much better than USA players

Noticed how Kirihara is the best Rosa without luma?

Tsu has a very good neutral dispite his characters limitations.

Shuton makes a character with poor mobility look like at times

I rarely see a Japanese Dog get gimped to anyone thats not

I don't know where to start on Ranai

I can go on and on with this

Following this pattern, does this mean that Tea regularly kills at 80, breaks shields at least twice per match, and has quick yet super effective tricks?

*crosses fingers and toes*

 

[Emblem Lord]

Rosa is hyper dominant in neutral but lacks literally EVERYTHING else that makes top tiers....top tier.

So I guess it depends on how much value you place on the neutral.

I mean you can actually edgeguard Rosa consistently and everyone can do it.

That is kinda crazy to me and unheard of for a smash top tier imo. That said, I still think she is top tier. Because I value really powerful neutral with little commitment.

 

[Das Koopa]

Kirihara won a major before Dabuz

Remember this

 

[Bowserboy3]

!!!

AAAAAH!!!

 

[The-Technique]

Kirihara definitely has the scariest, most aggro Solo rosa in the world.

Also inb4 NotATK "So a lot of people have been wondering, a lot of y'all was talkin **** when I said Rosa was #1..." NotATK

 

[Nobie]

Geez, Kirihara is a footsies monster.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Kirihara won a major before Dabuz

Remember this

Didn't Dabuz win APEX 2016, though?

 

[|RK|]

I've noticed this.

Japanese players are so good at Masking their characters weeknesses. Much better than USA players

Noticed how Kirihara is the best Rosa without luma?

Tsu has a very good neutral dispite his characters limitations.

Shuton makes a character with poor mobility look like at times

I rarely see a Japanese Dog get gimped to anyone thats not

I don't know where to start on Ranai

I can go on and on with this

Tbh, that's the mark of a really good player. Watching Alphicans's Mac when he almost beat Nairo - he made it look like going offstage was no big deal for Mac. If you know how to play your character's weakest state, you'll go really far.

EDIT: Apex 2016 was passed up by most top players for another tournament that weekend. I don't think it counted as a major, but I could be wrong.

 

[freeziebeatz]

Didn't Dabuz win APEX 2016, though?

Not a major. It got about 300 entrants and had an okay amount of top players. Same goes for WTFox2.

Edit: Sorry, I'm looking at it OrionRank status wise and not PGR so I don't consider it a major. I'm not entirely sure how PGR looked at it. It was included for PGR but V2 only had 2 tiers.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

I'm extremely confused. What has to factored in to classify a tournament as a major/national? PGR attendance, overall player attendance, or international attendance?

 

[DanGR]

I'm extremely confused. What has to factored in to classify a tournament as a major/national? PGR attendance, overall player attendance, or international attendance?

It's completely arbitrary.

 

[Das Koopa]

It's completely arbitrary.

yeaaaahhhhhh boiiiii

I'm listing FPS2 at category 4 (equivalent A-tier event on PGR) which is either a national or a major depending on the terminology set you use

 

[Bowserboy3]

So, ZeRo Rosalina analysis when?

I'll give it 2 days max.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

So, ZeRo Rosalina analysis when?

I'll give it 2 days max.

Exactly the same time as Frostbite, eh?

 

[chaos11011]

I've noticed this.

Japanese players are so good at Masking their characters weeknesses. Much better than USA players

Noticed how Kirihara is the best Rosa without luma?

Tsu has a very good neutral dispite his characters limitations in the neutral

Shuton makes a character with poor mobility look like at times

I rarely see a Japanese Dog get gimped to anyone thats not

I don't know where to start on Ranai

I can go on and on with this

Once people start realizing they should stop trying to gimp DH and instead focus on 2 framing his ridiculously slow recovery, people will be better at that. Sonic and Mac smashes, along with Luigi cyclones, gimp Duck Hunt for free. A good chunk of my region has adapted to that and has made my DH's offstage game boil down to 50/50s to recover high on stage or to the ledge.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Exactly the same time as Frostbite, eh?

Lucky guess then; I knew Lucario was his next video, but I didn't realise it was 2 days also.

I wonder if ZeRo will put Rosalina as number 1 again on his tier list?

 

[FeelMeUp]

Has anyone else noticed the way top level Japanese players make Monkey Flip look like a bad move?

 

[Ziodyne 21]

It's getting hard to tell who is the better Bayo main now between Salem and Zack. Both thier styles are so entirely different to the point it affects how they do vs players and character MU'S

We see Salem able to fare better and actually beat ZeRo, but Zack gets destroyed whenever he goes against him

On the flipside Zack does a lot better vs Dabuz wrecking his Rosalina him and forced him to drop Rosalina for Olimar. Also took a set of Dabuz too. All things Salem has yet to be able to do as he gets dominated by Dabuz EVERY time they face off

To prove how different matches vs a player go between Zack and Salem. Salem got 3-0'd by Ranai, yet Zack then 3-0'd Ranai in return at this major. There is almost no patten or consistency between the two players results

I swear at this point how far at majors one of them goes over the other is almost entirely dependant on bracket luck

If Salem and Zack could somehow DBZ fusion dance or something to combine both their playstyles and skills to a single Bayo player.
We would have someone who could take on anyone and win majors for sure.

 

[chaos11011]

Has anyone else noticed the way top level Japanese players make Monkey Flip look like a bad move?

Kirihara's NAir and USmash to anti-air was so good. Even when the kick hit his shield, he would be able to chase Zero down to a T.

 

[freeziebeatz]

Full Top 32 Results

Spoiler: Frame Perfect Series 2

1st - Kirihara
2nd - ZeRo (Lost to Kirihara x2)
3rd - MKLeo (Lost to ZeRo x2)
4th - komorikiri (Lost to Kirihara and MKLeo )
5th - Dabuz (Lost to komorikiri and MKLeo )
5th - CaptainZack (Lost to ZeRo and komorikiri )
7th - Salem (Lost to Ranai and komorikiri )
7th - Ranai (Lost to MKLeo and CaptainZack )
9th - Cashmere (Lost to ESAM and Ranai ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
9th - Kameme (Lost to CaptainZack and Dabuz )
9th - Dath (Lost to Nicko and CaptainZack )
9th - ESAM (Lost to Kirihara and Salem )
13th - SuperGirlKels (Lost to Salem and Dath ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
13th - Mr.E (Lost to Kirihara and Cashmere )
13th - Earth (Lost to Poltergust and Salem )
13th - dyr (Lost to ESAM and Kameme )
17th - Child (Lost to ZeRo and Cashmere )
17th - Myran (Lost to Kameme and Mr.E )
17th - Ryo (Lost to Kiriahra and Kameme )
17th - Fatality (Lost to komorikiri and SuperGirlKels )
17th - Kome (Lost to Fatality and Salem ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
17th - Manny (Lost to MKLeo and Earth )
17th - Nicko (Lost to Dabuz and Dath )
17th - MVD (Lost to ZeRo and dyr )
25th - Tsu (Lost to Cashmere and dyr )
25th - Ross (Lost to Rideae and Dath ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - Tumultus (Lost to CaptainZack and Myran ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - King Will (Lost to Blank and Kome ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - Day (Lost to MVD and Child ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - ewok41 (Lost to komorikiri and SuperGirlKels ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - PikPocket ? (Lost to Chez and Ryo ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - JaK (Lost to Nicko and Earth ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)

 

[Deleted member]

It's pretty rad that Kome and Nicko both made it as far as they did at such a stacked tournament. 's meta is only starting to have an upturn from here.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Full Top 32 Results

Spoiler: Frame Perfect Series 2

1st - Kirihara
2nd - ZeRo (Lost to Kirihara x2)
3rd - MKLeo (Lost to ZeRo x2)
4th - komorikiri (Lost to Kirihara and MKLeo )
5th - Dabuz (Lost to komorikiri and MKLeo )
5th - CaptainZack (Lost to ZeRo and komorikiri )
7th - Salem (Lost to Ranai and komorikiri )
7th - Ranai (Lost to MKLeo and CaptainZack )
9th - Cashmere (Lost to ESAM and Ranai ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
9th - Kameme (Lost to CaptainZack and Dabuz )
9th - Dath (Lost to Nicko and CaptainZack )
9th - ESAM (Lost to Kirihara and Salem )
13th - SuperGirlKels (Lost to Salem and Dath ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
13th - Mr.E (Lost to Kirihara and Cashmere )
13th - Earth (Lost to Poltergust and Salem )
13th - dyr (Lost to ESAM and Kameme )
17th - Child (Lost to ZeRo and Cashmere )
17th - Myran (Lost to Kameme and Mr.E )
17th - Ryo (Lost to Kiriahra and Kameme )
17th - Fatality (Lost to komorikiri and SuperGirlKels )
17th - Kome (Lost to Fatality and Salem ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
17th - Manny (Lost to MKLeo and Earth )
17th - Nicko (Lost to Dabuz and Dath )
17th - MVD (Lost to ZeRo and dyr )
25th - Tsu (Lost to Cashmere and dyr )
25th - Ross (Lost to Rideae and Dath ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - Tumultus (Lost to CaptainZack and Myran ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - King Will (Lost to Blank ? and Kome ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - Day (Lost to MVD and Child ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - ewok41 (Lost to komorikiri and SuperGirlKels ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - PikPocket (Lost to Chez ? and Ryo ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - JaK (Lost to Nicko and Earth ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)

Minor edit needed there: Ryo used Ike more than Corrin based on the bracket I could find. Ryo was only recorded as using Corrin for one set.

 

[Jaguar360]

Full Top 32 Results

Spoiler: Frame Perfect Series 2

1st - Kirihara
2nd - ZeRo (Lost to Kirihara x2)
3rd - MKLeo (Lost to ZeRo x2)
4th - komorikiri (Lost to Kirihara and MKLeo )
5th - Dabuz (Lost to komorikiri and MKLeo )
5th - CaptainZack (Lost to ZeRo and komorikiri )
7th - Salem (Lost to Ranai and komorikiri )
7th - Ranai (Lost to MKLeo and CaptainZack )
9th - Cashmere (Lost to ESAM and Ranai ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
9th - Kameme (Lost to CaptainZack and Dabuz )
9th - Dath (Lost to Nicko and CaptainZack )
9th - ESAM (Lost to Kirihara and Salem )
13th - SuperGirlKels (Lost to Salem and Dath ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
13th - Mr.E (Lost to Kirihara and Cashmere )
13th - Earth (Lost to Poltergust and Salem )
13th - dyr (Lost to ESAM and Kameme )
17th - Child (Lost to ZeRo and Cashmere )
17th - Myran (Lost to Kameme and Mr.E )
17th - Ryo (Lost to Kiriahra and Kameme )
17th - Fatality (Lost to komorikiri and SuperGirlKels )
17th - Kome (Lost to Fatality and Salem ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
17th - Manny (Lost to MKLeo and Earth )
17th - Nicko (Lost to Dabuz and Dath )
17th - MVD (Lost to ZeRo and dyr )
25th - Tsu (Lost to Cashmere and dyr )
25th - Ross (Lost to Rideae and Dath ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - Tumultus (Lost to CaptainZack and Myran ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - King Will (Lost to Blank ? and Kome ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - Day (Lost to MVD and Child ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - ewok41 (Lost to komorikiri and SuperGirlKels ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - PikPocket (Lost to Chez ? and Ryo ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)
25th - JaK (Lost to Nicko and Earth ) (Qualifies for OrionRank)

Ross was using Corrin earlier against Professor Oats and PikPocket likely also used Olimar, though I can't say for certain. Chez was Sonic, Blank was Sheik.

 

[Rizen]

In the same page people were talking about not being top tier possibly and then her winning a major, lol.

Good showing for with Dath and with Kome and Nicko.

 

[Das Koopa]

i like how there were vicious debates on who was better between Kome and Nicko and then both get the same placement lmao

 

[JB333]

This was a very interesting tournament...

1. Kirihara winning a major before Dabuz
2. Cashmere outperforming Fatality (Same could be said about Captain Zack's placing, but I think he actually may be better than Salem now).
3. The Japanese savagery after Tsu~'s loss (3 of the top 8 were Japanese players).


I can only imagine how many upsets there will be at Civil War...

 

[Luigi player]

Has anyone else noticed the way top level Japanese players make Monkey Flip look like a bad move?

It's hard getting used to it since he can grab or attack and it lasts long if he's doing the smash variant, which gives it a huge range to grab, so that's pretty tricky to deal with since it can grab rolls away. It's also a kinda committal tool though so it can always be a little risky. It can be hard to punish since it could outlast spotdodges and if you roll through Diddy you don't get to punish him so that's also not what one would want...

People really need to just be ready to position themselves or jump. A well timed and positioned roll away can also lead to a punish. People need to punish it more and harder and not get conditioned too much into shielding it and then get grabbed. You absolutely need to be ready for it at all times to be able to react. Jump-airdodge could work well too, but it all depends on the character. Fox can run around it or fulljump above it pretty quickly and be able to punish.

Diddy has to land if he's doing a grounded sideB, which has lag. If for example Luigi predicts it and positions himself good enough with the correct option he could get an upB in.

 

[The-Technique]

In the same page people were talking about not being top tier possibly and then her winning a major, lol.

Good showing for with Dath and with Kome and Nicko.

I'm still pissed that Dath and Nicko were forced to fight in pools. What kind of terrible seeding lead to that?

 

[TDK]

ignore this

 

[Das Koopa]

I'll have a masterpost of the last 2 weeks up fairly soon

btw I've literally never heard of solid. Is it an alias of Draquaza?

 

[Nathan Richardson]

I'm stunned that a solo zard made seventh at a tourney, especially with two sonics and a greninja in the mix. That's amazing results for a zard.

 

[Yonder]

https://smash.gg/tournament/rise-2017/events/wii-u-singles/brackets?filter={"phaseId":118735}
Rise 2017 (Arizona) (155 entrants)
1. Ally
2. Elegant (Lost to Luhtie and Ally )
3. ANTi (Lost to Ally and Elegant )
4. JK (Lost to ANTi and Elegant )
5. Luhtie (Lost to Ally and JK )
5. PiXL (Lost to ANTi and Elegant )
7. Solid (Lost to PiXL and JK )
7. Tyrant (Lost to Luhtie and Elegant )
9. Strozai (Lost to Saiki and Solid )
9. Saiki (Lost to Ally and Elegant )
9. ven (Lost to SS and JK )
9. Snoop (Lost to ANTi :4cloud and Tyrant )
13. Gabe (Lost to Tyrant :4metaknight and ven )
13. VaLoR (Lost to Ally and Strozai )
13. Apa~ (Lost to Gabe and Elegant )
13. BestNess (Lost to JK and Snoop )

Notables outside top 16:
17. Rich Brown (Lost to Solid and Gabe )
17. K9sbruce (Lost to JK and Strozai )
17. SS (Lost to PiXL and Elegant )
17. Vash (Lost to Luhtie and Ven )
17. Z (Lost to Solid and Apa~ )

So Ryu and Luigi continue to herd in results, Zelda does some good stuff, going 2-3 against some bad matchups and overcoming the Little Mac matchup (which is actually pretty hard for Zelda), and Zard has a really good performance. Also worth noting that Saiki had a really close set versus Ally.

Mario #1 and Luigi #2. The results don't get any more picture perfect than that lol.

Elegant is soooo close to getting 1st at these events lately. He has beaten Tyrant, Anti, Mr R, Void, last hitted MK Leo...What a player. Probably contends for top 10 in the world atm.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

BTW did anyone see that 'expose Ally' topic on the videos thread? I looked at it and it claimed the video linked to it proved Ally was a fraud. Pretty sure it's either a troll or a rickroll though...

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Mario #1 and Luigi #2. The results don't get any more picture perfect than that lol.

Elegant is soooo close to getting 1st at these events lately. He has beaten Tyrant, Anti, Mr R, Void, last hitted MK Leo...What a player. Probably contends for top 10 in the world atm.

I would not go that far. Theory wise maybe, but the result don't match up to a top 15 player. Likely a top 30 player at least though.

After this tournament, Kirihara is likely going to rise to around top 30 of PGR/General Rankings considering they are the first Rosa to win an event of this caliber while dealing with "bad" matchups(Komo's Cloud) and being able to become the only player to be 0-2 vs ZeRo at the time/beating zero twice the same tournament (though this will likely change)

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Mario #1 and Luigi #2. The results don't get any more picture perfect than that lol.

If only Snoop got third...