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I certainly hope so. Compared to other fighting games, Smash Bros. lacks completive super heavyweights.So, all the heavies in this game might actually be kind of competent now?with their direct buffs and
Cloud is pretty rough for Ganon, if it wasn't for F-tilt absolutely murdering him it would probably be his worst match up.Ah, thanks for the input. But that's scary just seeing Ganondorf kicking through the attack like Thoron.
Well, we can learn something from our most buffed characters...
Watch out for semi-spikes and frame 6 attacks, Cloud.
I think he's just over-estimating Cloud right now. No really, he thinks that even with the nerfs Cloud has, he's still that good?
Does he not know about
And this patch, it includes
Sheik's nerfs are actually reasonable for me; they are significant in some points (she dies earlier and has less range overall, and kills later with less reliable throws), but insignificant in others. I can believe she's a top 10.
all the people saying that needles suck now and it wont be a problem anymore. let me tell you, needles are still anoying as **** and one of the best projectile in the game. dont overreact. sheik is still very very damn good
Well, if Ganondorf lands a few hits and then an F-Tilt before, Cloud's done.
Good luck actually landing that hit, and Cloud offstage isn't as free as you think.
Things are looking promising.
all had huge gains with this patch either directly or indirectly so it's a good day to be fat. 
I nearly forgot about Ryu.Things are looking promising.
The Pits are also untouched again... I believe Pit's got the least amount of changes out of any character, though I can't remember what's happened to Puff for the life of me.There may be more, but it's strange that
Are these characters really the balance team's perception of well-rounded? I can understand ROB and Yoshi but they must think Jiggs and Dedede are at least decent if they've been this stagnant. I'm not saying they're correct, but it's something to think about.
Not many, actually. We're a pretty upbeat bunch.
has also been mostly untouched by patches as well. He got a couple of buffs last patch but they are mostly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, which is really weird because he could be a solid character if it weren't for the fact that a lot of his moves don't function right, most notably jab. Sometimes it feels like either not enough people play Bowser Jr. for the balance team to get a feel for him or even they straight up forget he's in the game....
Yep as I said, sheik still has a lot of kill confirms but only grab beats shield and it wont kill you from the centre of the stage unless you have the magic percents
of course. As I said, max range needles in 1.1.5 are punishable on block
The range is now as long as greninja's uncharged shurikens, not 3/4 of FD (the distance the two players start from each other). Thats a big nerf so sheik cant trap characters from the other side of the stage.
I can understand sheik's frame data making it not safe as when sheik covers a landing fair with a jab it stops moves frame 12 or above out of shield from punishing it.
She doesn't need a 50/50 or KO confirm to kill Cloud. Just fair, fair, DJ, fair, fair and let gravity do the rest as you BF Vanish back to stage.
The crucial thing with Cloud is that no character has ever experienced a significant tier drop without a nerf to their core strengths. It's taken, what, 5 different patches for Sheik to actually feel the effects of a nerf? Because they've never addressed her key problems (Fair + Needles range, throw confirms) before. MK took a massive hit with the loss of his ladder. ZSS and Bayo have taken big hits. Without a proper nerf to LCS, Cloud isn't going anywhere.
Smart players beats Cloud.
Well definitely, there's no way Zelda can be the worst now that she has a Hoo-Hah.
I'd kind of disagree. Bair and fair getting more kill power was certainly nice and the massive lag reductions for his Smash attacks were definitely helpful. Fsmash is now very safe while u/dsmash aren't pretty much a free punishment of your opponent's choice on shield/whiff anymore. Yes, jab still sucks and so does his grab but actually getting in kills became a lot easier. Also, again, the character has gotten a ton of indirect buffs as of late too.
...Then again, at least he's not
Going to address just this bit and say with the tech the MK guys are figuring out with their new Fair.... I don't know if MK's taken THAT much of a hit.
and in particular actually got buffs in the areas that needed them and the changes to and are also greatly appreciated. While I doubt these characters will be making waves at major tournaments any time soon, I think they may show up a bit more and might actually surprise people. I feel really bad for though.
The best characters is Smash 4 have always killed vertically- the change in vectoring in the transition from 3DS to Wii U lowered the of effectiveness horizontal kill power but INCREASED vertical kill power.
Witch Time stales so hard now. You will be able to punish off a Witch Time at most twice a game. It should really only be used for crucial moments now.
Didn't realize one of Japan's top players was dumb.
at this point is that she was designed to be a bad character but by some miracle turned out great in Melee.
Or Pichu took her place there as joke character and gave the joke character niche back to Puff when he was cut.It is pretty unfortunate that Palutena's worst problem (her abysmally slow tilts) haven't been addressed. But at least we can cross our fingers, since a lot of low tiers have gotten intelligent buffs so far.
My theory on
Yeah, MK's fair got a 4 frame lag reduction and is infinitely better. The problem with fair was that it was completely invalidated by his other aerials. It starts the slowest at frame 9, had 20 frames of LL, and AC's in the last 2 frames, yet it does only 6% damage (same as dair which is frame 4) and is weaker than bair and nair which were also faster. There was literally no reason to use fair over any other aerial, aside from the fact that it had the longest range.
I kinda doubt they'll do anything major with her frame data. They'll probably keep doing minor adjustments but I don't see anything that'd really help her that much in a customs off environment.
The weird thing is that she's good in 64, too. Mid-tier, and placed Top 3 at Genesis 3.
Greninja is likely the character that has received the best buffs overall in this patch - he got both direct buffs [better dash attack and having an actual standing grab] and indirect ones [Sheik nerf] which could be the ultimate breakthrough into undisputed viability for this character.
Meta Knight got a nice bit off the Sheik nerf. He apparently no longer has a hard-counter, because needles and fair were two major middle fingers in the Sheik MU. While Sheik wins neutral still, the serious nerf to her projectile and decreased range on fair, combined with the significant fair buff MK got, this MU definitely isn't as oppressive as it was previously.
