3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Gatoray]

It's really not a big nerf. The only thing it does is makes it so you can't use it to win the match if you both have one stock. Have a stock lead? Still totally works.

There is a video circling around of the Villager being able to jump out right before he dies and recover with his balloons. I'm pretty sure it works with most of the cast though, but there are exceptions.

 

[Terotrous]

To me it's more of a debalance patch. Whether it was intentional or not, Link and Toon Link are going to be much harder to win with. That seems like a decrease of balance to me, glitches or not, there has been moves that balance the game less by weakening characters who aren't that amazing.

State Fair? More like State UNFAIR!


Anyway, other people got brought down, possibly more overall. It's hard to tell at this point if they've gotten relatively better or worse.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I play as Greninja as a main. I was pretty upset at first with the changes they made, and I felt like I couldn't pull off anything with him that I used to be able to. He feels kinda clunky, but I think once I'm not frustrated by it I will start to work with it.

Happy with the Shulk changes. I want to play as him more, and I always felt like he was kinda weak.

Overall, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this patch. I think some of the changes made were questionable.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Peach's 0-Death combo no longer works. It can only be performed once at low percents (probably less than 10%), afterwards, Nair after Footstool knocks the opponent into the air.

Toss Canceling and Ledge Turnip Canceling are out too.

EDIT: It seems the combo is still in. Confirmation is needed.

 

[erico9001]

Shulk Fair knockback (used very close to Mario) - 102->110

 

[EdreesesPieces]

It's really not a big nerf. The only thing it does is makes it so you can't use it to win the match if you both have one stock. Have a stock lead? Still totally works.

That is a huge nerf because having an instant kill at 0% (albiet situational) makes your character a lot better, and now it's taken away. Removing

Peach's 0-Death combo no longer works. It can only be performed once at low percents (probably less than 10%), afterwards, Nair after Footstool knocks the opponent into the air.

Toss Canceling and Ledge Turnip Canceling are out too.

Does that mean weak nair's knockback is now just as good as the sweet spotted nair?

 

[san.]

Ike bair kill % on Mario at the very edge of FD: 99% -> 88%

 

[Thinkaman]

Real Talk: If campable walk-offs are dumb, then Bowsercides are dumb.

 

[Gatoray]

I wish someone would be regularly updating the first post. It's going to be a pain to compile all this information after we reach 20+ pages of posts.

 

[AvariceX]

Patch changes like these are just going to ingrain STSFN mentality in everyone. Almost all of the community-found advanced tech is being patched out. Infinite Lightweight survived but it was found very recently and I guarantee it won't survive the next patch.

I actually agree with almost all of the strictly numeric (frame, damage, knockback) changes in this patch, but I hate this patch. It's like they want to remove everything unconventional or unique about every character. No fun allowed if it's not in line with Sakurai's vision.

I for one will not be sharing any advantageous tech that I may find in the future knowing that this is how they are handling patches. I was already hesitant to share the unblockable WFT f-air outside of the dedicated WFT board but others had started to mention it so I didn't see the harm.

 

[NairWizard]

Patch changes like these are just going to ingrain STSFN mentality in everyone. Almost all of the community-found advanced tech is being patched out. Infinite Lightweight survived but it was found very recently and I guarantee it won't survive the next patch.

I actually agree with almost all of the strictly numeric (frame, damage, knockback) changes in this patch, but I hate this patch. It's like they want to remove everything unconventional or unique about every character. No fun allowed if it's not in line with Sakurai's vision.

I for one will not be sharing any advantageous tech that I may find in the future knowing that this is how they are handling patches. I was already hesitant to share the unblockable WFT f-air outside of the dedicated WFT board but others had started to mention it so I didn't see the harm.

Yes, withhold knowledge from the community for personal gain. I'm sure that this is a healthy competitive mindset.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Peach's ledge cancel turnip pull is gone, as is her insta turnip toss when she descends to the ground.

 

[KirbyCheatFurbyMeat]

I heard Ganondorf's fair has less landing lag and his Wizard's Foot comes out faster.

Any proof of this?

 

[erico9001]

Shulk U-air knockback - 131->139

 

[Manadomort]

Shulk got some damage buffs.

Great!

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Peach's turnip farm glitch is still in, instant turnip ledge canceling is out. I personally know a few Peach mains that are crying somewhere.

Turnip farm glitch? What's that?

 

[LordFluffy]

Not sure if its been said yet but ZSS's Infinite on Robin has been Removed. she now properly footstools off of his/her head.

 

[Terotrous]

Patch changes like these are just going to ingrain STSFN mentality in everyone. Almost all of the community-found advanced tech is being patched out. Infinite Lightweight survived but it was found very recently and I guarantee it won't survive the next patch.

I actually agree with almost all of the strictly numeric (frame, damage, knockback) changes in this patch, but I hate this patch. It's like they want to remove everything unconventional or unique about every character. No fun allowed if it's not in line with Sakurai's vision.

I for one will not be sharing any advantageous tech that I may find in the future knowing that this is how they are handling patches. I was already hesitant to share the unblockable WFT f-air outside of the dedicated WFT board but others had started to mention it so I didn't see the harm.

What's the point? Once you use it in a match, it's out there. In order to protect your tech you'd have to never use it, at which point it might as well not exist at all.


Incidentally, I don't think we'll see another patch like this soon. Remember, the Wii U version went gold quite some time back, these must have just been the last round of balance adjustments from Wii U development. Now that both versions are out there's no immediate pressure for them to do another update.

 

[Rubica]

Real Talk: If campable walk-offs are dumb, then Bowsercides are dumb.

Preach.

Can anyone do some real testing for Game & Watch? As a G&W main, I feel like he's got more landing lag on his Bair and that his dash attack may be worse, but I can't really prove it.

 

[AvariceX]

What's the point? Once you use it in a match, it's out there. In order to protect your tech you'd have to never use it, at which point it might as well not exist at all.

You say "what's the point", but we just saw an entire tournament nearly dominated by nothing but one-inch-punch. Imagine if he won that tournament. Even if the tech gets patched out he still would have walked away with everyone's money.

 

[Tainic]

It feels like Rob's Up B now reloads quicker, it might just be placebo but if somebody can confirm this.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I wish someone would be regularly updating the first post. It's going to be a pain to compile all this information after we reach 20+ pages of posts.

SamuraiPanda's at work, but he requested that people with patch notes tag him (like so: @<USERNAMEGOESHERE>) so that he can more easily find and collate the information when he gets back home.

 

[Terotrous]

You say "what's the point", but we just saw an entire tournament nearly dominated by nothing but one-inch-punch. Imagine if he won that tournament. Even if the tech gets patched out he still would have walked away with everyone's money.

But this is the case regardless of whether they patch or not.

 

[an1bal]

Rosalina's corneria gravity pull on lasers still in

 

[Gatoray]

Patch changes like these are just going to ingrain STSFN mentality in everyone. Almost all of the community-found advanced tech is being patched out. Infinite Lightweight survived but it was found very recently and I guarantee it won't survive the next patch.

I actually agree with almost all of the strictly numeric (frame, damage, knockback) changes in this patch, but I hate this patch. It's like they want to remove everything unconventional or unique about every character. No fun allowed if it's not in line with Sakurai's vision.

I for one will not be sharing any advantageous tech that I may find in the future knowing that this is how they are handling patches. I was already hesitant to share the unblockable WFT f-air outside of the dedicated WFT board but others had started to mention it so I didn't see the harm.

As game design gets more advanced, so will the attention to detail. There's a reason why older games are more popular for speedrunning, because game design was still young and there were no viable methods to balance or patch games besides releasing whole new revisions (like Melee v1.00 and 1.02). We are in the modern age where the internet is fast enough to transfer hundreds of megabytes within only a few minutes, so game companies aren't limited to their distribution methods and are able to make changes to anything they see fit. Nintendo is trying to make Smash 4 the best smash game they possibly can, and since the vision of Smash Bros has always had it's roots as a party game, they are going to try to remove and fix all potential friendship-ruiners, tournament gimmicks, any type of unintended deviance from their design philosophy. You can't please everyone, the most you can do is please the majority.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Guys just so you know you can freely test the old version. Just delete your update data to remove the patch from your SD card then load up the game. It will ask you to update. Just say no and tell the system you wish to play without saving any data. You will lose everything that you had to unlock but not permanently. Once you are done testing you must re-download the patch and everything you unlocked will still be there.

So I tested the d-throw combos and yeah I guess we were wrong. You CAN combo d-throw in the old versions with Marth. d-throw uair works same as in the patch. I guess that whole month of playing on 3DS made it more consistent for me.

 

[erico9001]

Shulk back slash- no change in knockback from front
Knockback from the back 160->170 (I believe...? testing this from behind is difficult)

 

[Judo777]

It's really not a big nerf. The only thing it does is makes it so you can't use it to win the match if you both have one stock. Have a stock lead? Still totally works.

It's not about that. It's simply the principle. They changed that because they thought it was too powerful, which shows that the developers likely are getting their information from people with no knowledge of the game.

In my ENTIRE SMASH CAREER! I have NEVER been killed by a bowsercide that had even a slightly drastic effect UNLESS it was in my favor (the non-bowsers favor).

I have only died to Bowsercides when I was already dead way offstage and couldn't recover (or in a spot where fair would have killed me all the same). Or where I was at such a high percent that doing an onstage side b would have killed me all the same.

The ony drastic effects i have seen done to me were where the Bowser forfeited HIS fresh stock to bowsercide me (not last stock) and evened the game up (they thought I would hold the other direction). Its not too powerful in fact it barely even matters.

 

[Thinkaman]

ITT: People who think that stuff was patched out because it was posted on Smashboards in English.

It was all the Japanese QA team, folks. This build was gold a month ago.

There were literally printed discs in people hands two weeks ago.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

That is a huge nerf because having an instant kill at 0% (albiet situational) makes your character a lot better, and now it's taken away. Removing


Does that mean weak nair's knockback is now just as good as the sweet spotted nair?

I'm not too sure. It seems to better, but mostly the same. It's hard to tell since I don't have the old version anymore. The combo no longer works, whether it's with the Sour spot or Sweet Spot.

 

[moidecastro]

Im not so sure about that, but the fully charged phantom slash only hits once now. It can also slide right through characters so you have to decide how long to hold it for.

It hits twice. Also, she cannot unsummon phantom; however, there is no cool off period. Once the phantom is gone, Zelda's hand stops glowing and you can summon him once again.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The 3DS version was the beta test.

What I'm eager to see is..how long till the next patch. If they patch every few months i wont even go to tournaments. The metagame won't ever solidify.

 

[Terotrous]

Its not too powerful in fact it barely even matters.

I agree, which is why I don't see much reason to complain.

 

[erico9001]

Shulk FSmash knockback, fully charged, no tilt, Mario up close - 215->223

 

[Gatoray]

ITT: People who think that stuff was patched out because it was posted on Smashboards in English.

It was all the Japanese QA team, folks. This build was gold a month ago.

There were literally printed discs in people hands two weeks ago.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the data for their balance decisions were taken from online matches.

 

[Thinkaman]

The 3DS version was the beta test.

What I'm eager to see is..how long till the next patch. If they patch every few months i wont even go to tournaments. The metagame won't ever solidify.

I mean, just playing devil's advocate here, but the biggest eSport in the world patches every 3-4 weeks.

 

[NairWizard]

Heard on the Palutena boards that Palutena's jab doesn't link properly to other attacks any more. Can someone confirm or deny? Don't have a 3DS until much later today, but interested in this.

 

[Terotrous]

Considering this is literally Nintendo's first balance patch ever I'm not sure why we're suddenly assuming it's going to be a monthly thing from now on.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Because of how soon it happened.

 

[Tagxy]

Great, now = instead of the that she already was.

This is exactly like how PS All-Stars kept buffing Kat and Kratos and nerfing Jak and Sackboy.

Pretty sure wasn't nerfed, lol. Regardless most of her changes seem to match what she had in Brawl from what Im reading.