3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[A2ZOMG]

Wait WHAT hold up, the frame data permits this?

THEORYCRAFT (math may be not completely accurate):

Let's assume that they only took off like...3 frames off N-air landing lag (there's video evidence that it has less landing lag. How much is not yet 100% certain).

So Ganon's N-air would have 19 frames of landing lag. Assuming you space it very close to the ground, and there's say, 3 frames of shieldstun? It's about a 16-17 frame disadvantage on block. Throw in shield drop time, your opponent needs to have a move that is 10 frames or faster to punish N-air on block. Conveniently enough, Ganondorf's N-air has more range than MOST things that happen to have that much startup. So I dare say, it's a safe approach. You have to space it correctly, but this gives you a safe poking option on shield that is faster than reaction time.

 

[DarkKiru]

The ony drastic effects i have seen done to me were where the Bowser forfeited HIS fresh stock to bowsercide me (not last stock) and evened the game up (they thought I would hold the other direction). Its not too powerful in fact it barely even matters.

Ironically, Ganoncide is much stronger, yet thats still in; while its stricter to execute, its (as far as I know anyway) impossible to escape, and Ganondorf gets complete control over where he goes.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the data for their balance decisions were taken from online matches.

Very possible, though its quite likely that said information was only taken from japan (if there was any information taken at all in this instance; for all we know the balance team could've just playtested more). Given that concept wise the patch would've probably had to have been done by early to mid october at the most.

 

[Jabejazz]

For all intents and purposes, we have to take 1.0.4 as 1.0.0.

It's the first official Smash Wii U build; meaning it's perfectly normal and understandable that we get so many changes in this patch.
I don't expect upcoming patches to be as significant as this one (minus the extra character ones).

 

[Terotrous]

Because of how soon it happened.

It's clearly tied to the release of the Wii U version, though.

 

[erico9001]

Shulk Air Slash (up-B) knockback - 137->138

 

[Pryze]

Because of how soon it happened.

It happened 2 days before the WiiU version releases in NA, they want the two games to be as identical as possible. How is this too soon?

 

[The Real Gamer]

Overall I'm happy with this patch. A lot of jank was removed and some well deserved nerfs/buffs were handed out accordingly.

 

[Thinkaman]

Heard on the Palutena boards that Palutena's jab doesn't link properly to other attacks any more. Can someone confirm or deny? Don't have a 3DS until much later today, but interested in this.

I can't replicate this, but it's hard to confirm such a thing.


Also, me and Ampharos just confirmed that Little Mac aerial side-b is indeed slightly lower range, by comparing foot positions after SH/FH aerial side-b on Flat Zone omega.

It's a very slight difference, but it's there. Testing customs now.

Edit:
#3 is also slightly shorter. #2 seems the same.

 

[TheExplodingcheez]

PAC-MAN's side smash can launch the fire hydrant now

 

[samoht45]

I for one welcome patches. It's such a refreshing thing to see for a Nintendo game. Patching improves games over time, regardless of what people initially think in their nerf rage... and the meta game can shift accordingly, it's actually really unusual for a competitive game to not be patched often.

I will say that buffing stuff that is weak is much much better than nerfing the powerful stuff. Also none of the changes made in this patch are all that drastic anyways and I think it's an overall improvement. But please for the love of god next time give us real patch notes.

 

[MachoCheeze]

PAC-MAN's side smash can launch the fire hydrant now

It's always been able to do this.

 

[momochuu]

I just hope in future patches they don't remove all advanced techniques that are found....that isn't healthy for the game at all and I hope this was just an exception for a "fresh start"

 

[Sinister Slush]

I mean, just playing devil's advocate here, but the biggest eSport in the world patches every 3-4 weeks.

To be fair, if you mean League. When it comes to LCS tournaments and such they stay on the same patch for quite a few months before finally switching to the new one. 2 or 3 patches usually.

For Smash we wouldn't get the pleasure of being able to do that unless every single 3ds/Wii U in the venue somehow didn't download the update and stayed on the patch until say patch 1.0.6

 

[Terotrous]

I will say that buffing stuff that is weak is much much better than nerfing the powerful stuff. Also none of the changes made in this patch are all that drastic anyways and I think it's an overall improvement. But please for the love of god next time give us real patch notes.

Both are necessary. If you just buff buff buff you end up with a homogenous cast where everyone can do everything well and no one has any meaningful weaknesses.

 

[Loki]

http://fat.gfycat.com/RectangularFlusteredHummingbird.webm

Apply sad violin melody to it.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I can say right now that palutena's Nair Fast fall spike is still in, from what i've heard from my friend shiek's Uair also retains this property

Palutena's uair spike is also still in.

Peach's 0-Death combo no longer works. It can only be performed once at low percents (probably less than 10%), afterwards, Nair after Footstool knocks the opponent into the air.

Toss Canceling and Ledge Turnip Canceling are out too.

Ouch.

Heard on the Palutena boards that Palutena's jab doesn't link properly to other attacks any more. Can someone confirm or deny? Don't have a 3DS until much later today, but interested in this.

Still works okay for me.

 

[NairWizard]

I just hope in future patches they don't remove all advanced techniques that are found....that isn't healthy for the game at all and I hope this was just an exception for a "fresh start"

It's very healthy. It makes the game more stable, not less.

 

[DarkKiru]

I just hope in future patches they don't remove all advanced techniques that are found....that isn't healthy for the game at all and I hope this was just an exception for a "fresh start"

Gonna agree with this, patches should be infrequent as well (not so infrequent that we rarely see them, but not so common that the meta never solidifies). Honestly I've never seen the point in removing AT's they don't really "hurt" the casual scene, only the competitive one when removed (and there's no reason a game can't be both competitive and casual of course).

 

[FullMoon]

I don't know how to feel about this patch. I don't understand why they nerfed Greninja so much while ZSS and Rosalina barely got nerfed at all when they're considered better characters than him. On the other hand they did give Falco some buffs so...

I guess I'm just annoyed that they took away most of what made Greninja fun to play with.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Link's (and I assume because of this removal it goes for Toon Link and Peach as well) DownB Bomb Throw cancel has been removed. He can't short arrows or aerials with a bomb in hand to cancel the landing lag by throwing the bomb.

 

[Terotrous]

I don't know how to feel about this patch. I don't understand why they nerfed Greninja so much while ZSS and Rosalina barely got nerfed at all when they're considered better characters than him. On the other hand they did give Falco some buffs so...

I guess I'm just annoyed that they took away most of what made Greninja fun to play with.

They did hit Sheik pretty hard, and Rosalina got some stuff. The anomaly seems to be ZSS.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

As game design gets more advanced, so will the attention to detail. There's a reason why older games are more popular for speedrunning, because game design was still young and there were no viable methods to balance or patch games besides releasing whole new revisions (like Melee v1.00 and 1.02). We are in the modern age where the internet is fast enough to transfer hundreds of megabytes within only a few minutes, so game companies aren't limited to their distribution methods and are able to make changes to anything they see fit. Nintendo is trying to make Smash 4 the best smash game they possibly can, and since the vision of Smash Bros has always had it's roots as a party game, they are going to try to remove and fix all potential friendship-ruiners, tournament gimmicks, any type of unintended deviance from their design philosophy. You can't please everyone, the most you can do is please the majority.

Your words are so brutal but alas, so true. ;_;7
Fugen Casuls

 

[erico9001]

Shulk's Dair (both hitboxes hit, no spike.) - 117->124
Spike hitbox only - 94->102

-Not going to attempt to get data on the counter.

Alright, that's all data on Shulk's knockback with no Monado Arts (except for counter, and back slash is iffy). I'll start compiling all my posts into one and summarize them too.

 

[Tesh]

I don't know how to feel about this patch. I don't understand why they nerfed Greninja so much while ZSS and Rosalina barely got nerfed at all when they're considered better characters than him. On the other hand they did give Falco some buffs so...

I guess I'm just annoyed that they took away most of what made Greninja fun to play with.

if spamming up b and upsmash were all the fun you could have i feel bad for your opponents.

 

[Thinkaman]

AA (1.0.3): Rosalina no Luma usmash against Training mode Mario kills at 121%

Me (1.0.4): Rosalina no Luma usmash against Training mode Mario kills at 137%

 

[ZombieBran]

- Utilt damage increased by 1%

Depressing.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Pretty sure wasn't nerfed, lol. Regardless most of her changes seem to match what she had in Brawl from what Im reading.

She is defo buffed. Her down throw is even more useful now and can be easily combo'd into up b even on higher percentages.

If it wasn't stated already ITT, her dash attack range seems to be shorter. Carrill said it in the ZSS specific 1.0.4 thread and I can confirm it.

 

[momochuu]

I don't know how to feel about this patch. I don't understand why they nerfed Greninja so much while ZSS and Rosalina barely got nerfed at all when they're considered better characters than him. On the other hand they did give Falco some buffs so...

I guess I'm just annoyed that they took away most of what made Greninja fun to play with.

greninja is still good. sheik got it worse.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Link's Forward Smash is much easier to connect both hits with at higher percents now. The first hit of it is no longer popping Mario up far enough to avoid the second hit.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Can somebody with both versions of the game test Ike's running speed, Uthrow, and Eruption? All three have been rumoured for slight changes. (Faster running, less power so more comboing, and slightly different launch angle respectively)

 

[ChampKing]

Luckily Mac escaped without any significant nerfs. Tiny range decrease in Side+B and weaker jab damage are not bad at all. He even got a buff in KO Punch so that vectoring doesn't seem to affect knock back anymore. More early kills FTW.

 

[FullMoon]

if spamming up b and upsmash were all the fun you could have i feel bad for your opponents.

First of all I don't like people making assumptions of how I play without ever having fought me before.

Second, I'm actually okay with Up-Smash being nerfed considering how powerful it was, but things like nerfing up-air and Hydro Pump are pretty unnecessary, especially the former. I will admit though that I'm not sure if Hydro Pump is still great for gimping or not since I'm not that skilled using it, especially on the circle pad.

... I will miss being able to KO people from the top using Hydro Pump. I always found it so hilarious when it happened. I'm not sure if it's still possible or not but if it is, it's likely almost impossible to do.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Luckily Mac escaped without any significant nerfs. Tiny range decrease in Side+B and weaker jab damage are not bad at all. He even got a buff in KO Punch so that vectoring doesn't seem to affect knock back anymore. More early kills FTW.

This is a very good sign. It's basically the proof that Sakurai is not blindly following his statistics.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

Any big changes to Link?

 

[Evello]

Gonna agree with this, patches should be infrequent as well (not so infrequent that we rarely see them, but not so common that the meta never solidifies). Honestly I've never seen the point in removing AT's they don't really "hurt" the casual scene, only the competitive one when removed (and there's no reason a game can't be both competitive and casual of course).

Between Melee and Brawl I was totally on board with ditching the AT's, since the AT's were so influential that they turned the metagame into something far different than what it seems the developers intended (SSB was conceived entirely to avoid such complex inputs). Regardless of that, though, I don't get why they bothered this time around. None of the SSB4 AT's were all that major as far as I'm aware. I suppose some casuals could leverage one or two easy AT's they've picked up to get an advantage over other casuals who don't know any, which could present a balance concern. Still, removing DACUS seems super odd, since they obviously brought it over from Brawl without concern. Very, very strange.

I totally agree on the patches, though. I hope we get them occasionally, but no more than once or twice a year. Especially not anything this major. And I think Nintendo will probably be good about it, since this patch had to handle getting rid of all the bugs and quirks in game after launch, as well as balancing things for the Wii U game.

 

[stingers]

Well I think we can all agree this patch had more hits then misses. Nintendo confirmed better at balancing then PMBR

 

[Terotrous]

Luckily Mac escaped without any significant nerfs. Tiny range decrease in Side+B and weaker jab damage are not bad at all. He even got a buff in KO Punch so that vectoring doesn't seem to affect knock back anymore. More early kills FTW.

The KO punch buff is basically trivial. It's still a one hit kill as long as you have slight damage. The amount of damage it takes is just now very slightly less.

Well I think we can all agree this patch had more hits then misses. Nintendo confirmed better at balancing then PMBR

#Shotsfired

I actually kind of agree TBQH. PM 3.5's changelist should just be "we made the game more boring".


Still, let's not derail this thread with PM.

 

[RWB]

You say "what's the point", but we just saw an entire tournament nearly dominated by nothing but one-inch-punch. Imagine if he won that tournament. Even if the tech gets patched out he still would have walked away with everyone's money.

You say this as if he hadn't already made threads explaining that this existed and how to do it... which he had.

 

[CHOMPY]

Villager

-Gyroid actually detonate when the player attacks it.

 

[NashRiskin]

While Luma Recall is faster now, he cannot attack during the recall like he used to be until he is VERY close to Rosalina.