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2013 Community Tier List

SillyGoose

Master of QWOP
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
145
Location
Walnut Creek, CA / Chicago
Once got 4th at a tourney with Kels, Trail, Matt.zeb, DSF, Scythe, beat Matt.zeb

1 Falco
2 Fox
3 Sheik
4 Marth
5 Jiggs
6 Peach
7 Falcon
8 Icies
9 Doc
10 Pika
11 Samus
12 Ganon
13 Luigi
14 Mario
15 Link
16 YL
17 Yoshi
18 DK
19 Zelda
20 Mewtwo
21 Roy
22 G&W
23 Ness
24 Bowser
25 Pichu
26 Kirby

Most up for debate in my mind are the orderings for Marth, Jiggs, Peach and for Icies, Doc, Pika.
 

Nos

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
13
Location
Goleta
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Peach

Puff
Marth
Falcon

IC

Samus
Doc
Luigi
Ganon
Pika
Yoshi
--------Top-------

Mario
DK
YL
Link

Zelda
Ness
Roy
Bowser
G&W
Mew2

Pichu
Kirby

I think Luigi Pika and Yoshi are pretty under rated, especially Yoshi. They actually are reasonably viable. Ness isn't nearly as bad as people think, his aerials are all pretty dope. G&W and Mew2 are awful, worse than Bowser. Kirby is also worse than Pichu I think, he can kind of combo and gimp and he doesn't just die instantly.

4Star, why is Mew2 that high and Luigi that low?

Credentials

Been playing for a while, think about tier lists all the time and have done a lot of research into matchups and theory.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
credentials: i'm me

my list:

viable: fox falco sheik marth peach jigglypuff
non-viable: the other 20
Im fine with accepting your credentials, however i need a full ordered list in order to count it. I did record this post as your vote, so if you decide to refine your answer later, please simply edit this one.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Im fine with accepting your credentials, however i need a full ordered list in order to count it. I did record this post as your vote, so if you decide to refine your answer later, please simply edit this one.
it was a satirical stance on the relevance of tier lists within the game's life span. the point is that we know who wins and who doesn't by now, making tier list formation a largely masturbatory experience.

edit: falcon is not viable. falcon has essentially no chance to win an international event. if you don't like it, too bad. prove me wrong.
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
it was a satirical stance on the relevance of tier lists within the game's life span. the point is that we know who wins and who doesn't by now, making tier list formation a largely masturbatory experience.

edit: falcon is not viable. falcon has essentially no chance to win an international event. if you don't like it, too bad. prove me wrong.
I believe we are all at the age where we can masturbate freely.
 

King Funk

Int. Croc. Alligator
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,972
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Jigglypuff
5. Peach
6. Marth
7. Ice Climbers
8. Falcon
9. Pikachu
10. Doctor Mario
11. Samus
12. Luigi
13. Yoshi
14. Mario
15. Ganondorf
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. Mewtwo
19. Donkey Kong
20. Zelda
21. Roy
22. Ness
23. Bowser
24. Mr. Game and Watch
25. Kirby
26. Pichu

EDIT, oh forgot to add details about myself. Not sure if it's that necessary because no one seems to be adding their own.

Picked up Melee in 2010 (started off as a 64/Brawl player in 2008), and been a really active member of the European Melee community ever since. I've attended a lot of tournaments and also have vast amounts of knowledge on Smash, its scene and its players around the world. I play other fighting games such as AE/SFxT/Marvel as well.

Placings: I consider myself an above average player in Europe and I tend to place barely outside of the final brackets (33rd at BEAST III ; 41st at Smashers Reunion ; 49th at BEAST II)
Best tournament victories: Beat, Rocky, VJ, Roflcopter, Eagle, Navn, Paju + Mayhem, Android + Q, DJ Black + Tonberry ; I do well vs many top players but never actually manage to beat them (I was one hit away from beating Scar at BEAST III but I choked xD, ggs to Bobby though he's awesome) =p
Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with: a lot of people, but I'd say I'm about as good as some other European Falcos such as NamiNami, Timi, Willy, etc.
Any players in your community who I could contact: Armada
 

Jockmaster

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
872
Location
Athens, GA
Credentials: I have played Mike G and XIF before. Not to mention Nicaboy is da bess Sheik in the south and he's my homie, represent GA Dale

S:
-FOX
-FALCO
-SHEIK

A:
-PUFF
-MARTH
-PEACH
-FALCON

IC:
-ICE CLIMBERS

B:
-DOC
-PIKA
-SAMUS

C:
-GANON
-LUIGI

D:
-MARIO
-YOUNG LINK
-LINK

E:
-DK
-YOSHI
-NESS
-ROY
-ZELDA

F:
-MEWTWO
-GAME&WATCH
-PICHU
-KIRBY
-BOWSER
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
Instead of everyone typing out their resumes, can't we just conclude the people listing Peach above Marth don't know what they're talking about?

I think that'd be a lot more efficient.
Lol This from the guy who put Marth as number 1 on a tier list in the tier list thread

I am not saying you are right or wrong about peach being lower then Marth, but anyone who thinks Marth is number 1 clearly doesnt know what they are talking about
 

Krynxe

I can't pronounce it either
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
4,903
Location
Lakewood, WA
3DS FC
4511-0472-1729
1. Fox (+0)
2. Falco (+0)
3. Sheik (+1)

4. Marth (+1)
5. Jigglypuff (-2)
6. Peach (+0)

7. Captain Falcon (+0)
8. Ice Climbers (+0)

9. Doctor Mario (+0)
10. Pikachu (+2)
11. Ganondorf (-1)
12. Samus (-1)

13. Mario (+0)
14. Luigi (+0)
15. Young Link (+2)
16. Link (+0)
17. Donkey Kong (-2)

18. Yoshi (+3)
19. Zelda (-1)
20. Mewtwo (+0)
21. Roy (-2)
22. Ness (+1)

23. Mr. Game And Watch (-1)
24. Bowser (+0)
25. Kirby (+0)
26. Pichu (+0)
 

Yomi-no-Kuni

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,016
Location
Freiburg germany
Credentials: Not a whole lot to offer... I make bracket at big european events, usualy get between 30ish or 15th.
Had some success in Teams with Tero (he had active times in the MBR & BBR), beating well known players.
Skill comparable to (I'll just name some rivals ;) ): Porc, Aniolas, Android, Qlex <-- all a bit better than me currently i believe.

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Jigglypuff
4. Sheik
5. Marth
6. Peach
7. ICs
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ganon
10. Doc
11. Pikachu
12. Samus
13. Mario
14. Y.Link
15. DK
16. Luigi
17. Link
18. Zelda
19. G&W
20. Yoshi
21. Roy
22. Bowser
23. Ness
24. Pichu
25. Kirby
26. Mewtwo

List may not yet be finalized.
 

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
20XX
edit: falcon is not viable. falcon has essentially no chance to win an international event. if you don't like it, too bad. prove me wrong.
I know I'm not allowed to say what I'm about to say without a million people accusing me of trying to make myself look better; I can assure you I don't care about that. I am voicing my honest opinion when I say that there are 6 tournament characters in this game and Captain Falcon is not one of them. I agree with you there. that being said, I strongly disagree with the second half of your post.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
that's fine, i think i understand your point of view having played the character so much. and honestly, you played amazing at apex and i almost changed my mind. but for some time now i just don't think the character can do it.
 

Madra Rua

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
26
Location
Delaware - Stone Free
My only credentials are that I've been watching a multitude of pro matches for the past couple years (both old and new), so you can count my vote if you want, but take it with a grain of salt; I don't have the actual match experience everyone else has.

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Dr. Mario
10. Pikachu
11. Samus
12. Ganondorf
13. Mario
14. Luigi
15. Donkey Kong
16. Link
17. Young Link
18. Mewtwo
19. Zelda
20. Roy
21. Yoshi
22. Mr. Game and Watch
23. Ness
24. Bowser
25. Kirby
26. Pichu
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Lol This from the guy who put Marth as number 1 on a tier list in the tier list thread

I am not saying you are right or wrong about peach being lower then Marth, but anyone who thinks Marth is number 1 clearly doesnt know what they are talking about
Mango doesn't know what he's talking about? lol
 

commonyoshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6,215
Location
dainty perfect
Credentials: I lived in socal, land of melee, and went to a butt-load of tournaments there with all of your favorite players. I suck and never beat anyone worth noting. At best I took some games.

The top five on my list are pretty interchangeable.

1 Marth
2 Peach
3 Shiek
4 Fox
5 Falco
6 Falcon
7 Puff
8 IC
9 Pika
10 Doc
11 Mario
12 Ganon
13 Samus
14 Y Link
15 Yoshi
16 Luigi
17 Link
18 Mewtwo
19 DK
20 Zelda
21 Roy
22 G&W
23 Bowser
24 Pichu
25 Ness
26 Kirby
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
13,625
Location
Sickboi in the 401
  • Top placings. Make sure to include this information:
  • Rom 3 25th
  • Rom 4 17th
  • Zenith 13th
  • Apex 2013 9th in Teams
  • Won Multiple Local Tournaments
    • Size of the tournament (number of entrants as well as the entry fee)
    • 4 of them are international/nationals with 100-300 entrants locals are normally 20-40
    • Notable players who attended
    • Most at internationals, locals have Me, Dazwa, Zoso, Slox, Mafia, Th0rn, Darc, KDJ
    • Who you actually beat and/or out placed
    • Zoso, Dazwa, Slox, Mafia, Swift, Tafokints, MacD, ChuDat,
  • Best tournament victories
  • Chu Dat, Zoso, Dazwa, MacD
  • Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Include your tournament record with them, if known.
  • Zoso 1-3 his favor of recent, Dazwa 2-1 Me Recent,
List

Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Peach
Marth
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario
Pikachu
Samus
Ganon
Luigi
Mario
Young Link
Link
Mewtwo
Yoshi
Roy
Ness
Mr. Game & Watch
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby
Zelda
 

stabbedbyanipple

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Irvine, SoCal
Credentials: top 10 in SoCal. Taken money from good people from every region

People to contact: your mom, anyone in Cali

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Jiggs
Marth
Peach
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Samus
Luigi
Ganondorf
Mario
Link
Pika
Yoshi (he might be better but no one shows it)
Young link
Dk
G&w
Mewtwo
Zelda
Roy
Ness
Kirby
Bowser
Pichu
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Top Placings:
I placed 4th out of 13 (i believe it was 13 entrants iirc) at a Battlegrounds Long Island Monthly in April.
Notable attendees: Knut, Codi
I beat and or outplaced some non-notable players such as myself.
I consider myself to be at about even skill with some local players, one's Tyler, and a few other who don't have tags that I can remember.
Players who could vouch for me: Knut, Randall (Superspright on the boards)

List:

1. Sheik
2. Fox
3. Peach
4. Falco
5. Jigglypuff
6. Marth
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Ganondorf
10. Samus
11. Doctor Mario
12. Pikachu
13. Donkey Kong
14. Mario
15. Luigi
16. Young Link
17. Mewtwo
18. Link
19. Ness
20. Game & Watch
21. Roy
22. Yoshi
23. Zelda
24. Pichu
25. Bowser
26. Kirby

Explanations:
1. Sheik: Easy to consistently use, insane planking options, good matchup spread, easysauce combos, deadly combos, crazy edgeguarding options, great grab game, great projectile game, good combo weight, insane range.
2. Fox: Nothing to say, every option is good, but he has a terrible combo weight, predictable recovery, dies early.
3. Peach: Lives forever, combos hard, turnips are good for option coverage, very fast nair, anti-combo weight, great recovery, the downsmash, float canceling, good edgeguarder.
4. Falco: Good options, best projectile in the game, best spike in the game, great at comboing fastfallers, just fast enough to continue combos, has trouble comboing floaties, dies obscenely early, gets combo'd hard, chaingrabbed hard, punished hard.
5. Jigglypuff: Anti- edgeguard, anti-combo, insane aerial game, bair, hard to punish, hard to follow up on, but she dies early vertically, is slow on the ground, has a terrible techroll, small range (save for bair).
6. Marth: Covers all options, great walls, great edgeguarding, great range, great priority, great grab game, great wavedash, great dashdance, but pretty slow, punishable lag, linear recovery, gets combo'd hard.
7. Captain Falcon: Great combos on most of the cast, great speed, aerials are incredible, best horizontal killer, great movement options, subpar wavedash, poor recovery, combo'd hard, terrible techroll, bad OoS options.

general explanations:
Ganon, Samus>Doctor Mario
Ganon and samus have better ranges, better options, better weights, and overall are just better than Doc.

DK>Mario, Luigi
Dk has good range, hard to edgeguard consistently, great horizontal recovery, lives forever, combos both mid-weights and fastfallers well, but has trouble with projectiles, speed mismatches, etc.
Mario and Luigi overall have worse options and worse matchups than DK.

Young Link placing:
YL has better options than a good majority of the cast, and can hold his own against top tiers: as evidenced by Armada/Hbox, Axe/Fly Amanita, and other such matches. Great projectile game too.

Mewtwo placing:
Has a great recovery than most low tiers, has a good combo game on fastfallers, tricky movement options, good tilts, range, and nair is good for covering space.

Game and watch is just better than the other low tiers. He has flaws in his weight and non l cancelable aerials, but otherwise, he has a good recovery, OoS up b, combo game, unpredictable throws.

Pichu can survive better in todays metagame than Bowser or Kirby. With actual combo options and faster movement/aerials, Pichu is obviously better than the super-sluggish Bowser, and the just all around piece of s*** that is Kirby.
 

jjlinyard

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
653
Location
London, UK
About Me:
- Fox main
- Playing since 2009
- Region: UK
- Best placings, 1st at local level, 2nd at regional level, 6th at National level
- Haven't placed outside of top 10 at a tournament for about 2 years so would consider myself solidly a top 10 player in the UK (probably 6th-10th)
- Notable players I play against Fuzzyness, Professor Pro, Vanity Angel.
- Contacts any of the above + Alpha Dash, J3ly, Jolteon.


1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Peach
6. Captain Falcon
7. Jigglypuff
8. Ice Climbers
9. Dr. Mario
10. Ganondorf
11. Samus
12. Mario
13. Pikachu
14. Luigi
15. Young Link
16. Roy
17. Link
18. Donkey Kong
19. Yoshi
20. Ness
21. Mr. Game & Watch
22. Zelda
23. Mewtwo
24. Bowser
25. Pichu
26. Kirby
I think the fact there are more players doing well with Falcon than jiggz in both the higher level play and lower level play (there are more falcon players in UK who would give me trouble than jiggz players) would suggest Falcon is easier to play with and advance which is the reason i put him above jiggz.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

Smash Hero
Writing Team
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
5,959
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slippi.gg
KORO#668
Reasoning for accepting my vote, theorycrafter, I give reasons. I watch way too many videos/I know way too many people from way too many regions to not know way too much.

Two notes, people overrate peach, Armada retired, get over yourselves. (sorry, too soon?) I don't see too many other peach' doing well in tournaments.
Also, people always claim that Fox is top. But really, who is actually winning tournaments. Fox or Falco?

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Puff
Peach
Falcon
IC
Pika
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Luigi
Link
Below this, the chars are too spread to judge. There are rare people who do well with them bu do we actually have statistics for these guys
DK
Mario
YL
Yoshi
Zelda
Roy
Mewtwo
Bowser
G&W
Ness
Kirby
Pichu
 

phish-it

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
2,096
Location
Mahopac, NY
I'm not sure I understand the plan behind this. Anyone can submit their vote but not everyones list will be accounted for in the final decision? Doesn't it make more sense to select qualified people manually for a pseudo Melee Back Room and derive a list from that?
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
I think that people consistently placing Sheik top 3 means something.
I think Sheik is definitely better than 4th, In my opinion she is top 2 at the very least.
I put her 1st but my opinion is open to consideration
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I'm not sure I understand the plan behind this. Anyone can submit their vote but not everyones list will be accounted for in the final decision? Doesn't it make more sense to select qualified people manually for a pseudo Melee Back Room and derive a list from that?
I think I have finally decided on the specifics but I would like to do some work with it before I make the full reveal. For now you'll just have to trust me when I say you're gonna like it :)
 

OkamiBW

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
2,051
Location
20 miles south of Irvine, SoCal
Credentials:
Top 5 in AZ
Same level as Stab + Sung.
13th at Kings of Cali I out of 121.
Top 5 in doubles three regionals in a row. (KoC I, KoC II, NCR)

Tier List:
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Puff
5. Ice Climbers
6. Marth
7. Peach
8. Captain Falcon
9. Dr. Mario
10. Pikachu
11. Samus
12. Luigi
13. Young Link
14. Mario
15. Ganondorf
16. Yoshi
17. Link
18. Donkey Kong
19. Mewtwo
20. Zelda
21. Game and Watch
22. Roy
23. Ness
24. Pichu
25. Kirby
26. Bowser
 

bËst^

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Hyllykallio, Finland
I started chatting with my friend about the topic and tiers and we got some nice conversations and because I'm in a mood of writing, I think I could post my thoughts here as well
  • Top placings.
    • B.E.A.S.T 2 & 3. Both times first one out of bracket -> placement somewhere around 33. Both tournament got about 100 attendees. Think BEAST 2 was a little big bigger
    • Since the beginning of my career 2006, I've been top 5 player in Finland
    • Notable players who attended -> Armada, Mango, Ice, Over Triforce, Scar...
    • Who you actually beat and/or out placed -> Not actual idea.
  • Best tournament victories: Dev, Aniolas, Helios. Close sets with IVP, Faab... and many others.
  • Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. I Think I got potential to make it top 17 in tournaments in Europe. Dev, Tonb3rry, Android are maybe the most known players I think I can challenge well.
  • Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided: I think Armada knows well enough finnish smashplayers.
My version goes like this:

Sheik
Fox
Falco
Falcon
Peach
Jiggly
Marth

IC
Doc
Pika
Ganon
Y-Link
Samus
Luigi

Mario
DK
Yoshi
Zelda
Link
GW

Bowser
Roy
Pichu
Mewtwo
Ness
Kirby

And because I always like, when there is some reasons behind decicions, I would like to explain my thoughs a little bit.

Sheik: Very even with fox, but I think fox is more fragile than sheik. Sheik only have troubles against jigglypuff (transforming to zelda helps a LOT against IC's). Both have very punishable recovery and they both carry combos, those are "easy" to pull of (sheiks Dthrow, fox's Uthrow. Forward tilt -> Fair and Shinesmash etc). Sheik is not as easy to combo and also posses very good air game even out of stage. Also there's been a lot sheik's in todays metagame making effort. KK, M2K, Ice, Overtriforce. I think Sheik should be in top two at least. Lack of major tournament victories is sort of minus, but I think, it is just matter of time now Armada has retired :D.

Falcon: I prefer Falcon higher than floaties, simply because he can handle those floaties very well. Falcon is poisonous against peach and IC, while having even chances against Spacies. Fears sheik a lot, but behind that Falcon's speed and aerial movement combined with amazing combo abilities and horizontal killin moves helps it to reach top 4 in my thoughts. Hax and mango have shoved a lot of potential Falcon posses. European player Jeapie also pulled of great results with Falcon.

Y-Link. Troubles against spacies and Falcon, but possesses a huge thread against floaties like Peach, Jiggs and IC. Outplaces Samus in those match ups pretty easily being more agile character. Can also compete with marth at least decently. Axe and Armada have shoved, that Y-link can pull out both; aggressive and campy playstyle.

Zelda: She might be slow, with bad grabs and only with two effective moves, but compined with good sheik-skills, it can be very effective to KO. chars like Jiggs, IC or Peach those might be problematic for sheik at times. Most notably IC's have a lot trouble to get pass Zeldas fair/bair spam.
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686
Credentials: aww I suck. I used to be quite average in europe, lol. notable players I've beaten: kJaB and Baxon. Best placing was Smash Royale where I placed 7th with around 100 players attending including people like JD, kJaB, Pamaro, Baxon, porc, Salepate, Pasi, Fox128 and Dou!
Yomi and me managed to get a few good team wins (Captain Jack/JD, Makenshi/someone, Ice/Pamaro, many other I don't remember)
I used to be in the Melee and Brawl Back Room tho
also I 4stocked Pepito while timing him out w/ ledgecamping and almost everyone knows that match and hates me because of it

1. Falco
2. Fox
3. Sheik
4. Peach
5. Jigglypuff
6. Marth
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Doctor Mario
10. Ganondorf
11. Pikachu
12. Samus
13. Mario
14. Luigi
15. Donkey Kong
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. Yoshi
19. G&W
20. Roy
21. Mewtwo
22. Zelda
23. Bowser
24. Pichu
25. Kirby
26. Ness
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Thats an NTSC List?

If you don't mind posting it, what is your opinion on the PAL tier list?
 

Llumys

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
2,905
Location
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
No notable placings. Used to attend smashfests regularly, and I still try to keep up with the scene. Figured this'd be fun to do.

Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario
Pikachu
Ganondorf
Samus
Luigi
Yoshi
Mario
Young Link
Link
Mewtwo
Roy
Ness
D.K.
Mr. Game & Watch
Bowser
Pichu
Zelda
Kirby
 
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