2013 Community Tier List

[Fortress | Sveet]

I advise against that or at least discrediting unsubstantiated posts or claims. I'm ALL for a sub forum to discuss this new tier list specifically where you would have to get posting rights like in the debate hall or wherever . That sounds great actually wink wink. And this way only people who really care will get their opinions documented. (i.e. someone who made their list in 5 minutes with shallow explanations shouldn't be equal in weight to someone who took an hour and explained their rankings)

Well I will be compiling multiple output lists. Not every vote will make it to every list. So in a sense VaNz and Hax's votes will mean more because they will be included on more lists than others, but they won't outweigh others.

I think it will be really interesting to see what the tier list looks like from top X players voting compared to all players voting and all the lists in between. Whether or not the thread I make is allowed to have the word "official" in it is very inconsequential.

 

[BTmoney]

Well I will be compiling multiple output lists. Not every vote will make it to every list. So in a sense VaNz and Hax's votes will mean more because they will be included on more lists than others, but they won't outweigh others.

I think it will be really interesting to see what the tier list looks like from top X players voting compared to all players voting and all the lists in between. Whether or not the thread I make is allowed to have the word "official" in it is very inconsequential.

Well I meant as far as having one/official SWF tier list goes. I think that should be the ultimate goal from this, unless this is just pure data collection or polling.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I will probably output an "official" list by sorting the data by parameters I haven't yet defined (maybe, people who can/have made it out of pools at a regional or national). I would also like to include other lists of the compiled data to compare and contrast how people of all skill levels view the characters in the game.

 

[SwiftBass]

I go to most majors I always get like or 33rd something. name a major its usually 33rd ​

Rom5: 9th but like not many people showed​

I dont think I could be compared to anyone but if there were a tier of players I would associated with(me being in the bottom of the tier that is):​

Tope​

DJN​

DoH​

Cyrain​

Scar​

Thorn​

Darc ​

​

​

​

1. Fox​

2. Sheik​

3. Falco​

4. Marth​

5. Jigglypuff​

6. Peach​

7. Captain Falcon​

8. Ice Climbers​

9. Doctor Mario​

10. Ganondorf​

11. Samus​

12. Pikachu ​

13. Luigi​

14. Mario​

15. Donkey Kong​

16. Young Link​

17. Link​

18. Yoshi​

19. Zelda​

20. Roy​

21. Mr. Game & Watch​

22. Mewtwo​

23. Ness​

24. Bowser​

25. Pichu​

26. Kirby​

 

[john!]

so now everybody's in the mbr? awesome! lol

falco/fox
sheik/puff/marth
peach/falcon/ic's
doc/samus
ganon/pika/mario/young link/link
luigi/zelda/yoshi/dk/g&w
ness/roy/mewtwo/pichu/bowser/kirby

no credentials cuz u already know how bad i am

edit: okay in all seriousness, i don't want to give credentials because i'm super inconsistent... i've beaten duck, LE, MDZ, orly, TGD, viperboy, etc. but they are all better players than me... and i've lost to some scrubs too (usually at nationals LOL)... so take that for what it's worth

if i had to pick an evenly-skilled player i'd say oro, i beat him last time we played but i think our tourney record is probably about even

 

[pelotaz0]

1. Fox
2. Peach
3. Falco
4. Sheik
5. Jigglypuff
6. Marth
7. Captain Falcon
8. Doctor Mario
9. Ice Climbers
10. Pikachu
11. Samus
12. Ganondorf
13. Young Link
14. Luigi
15. Donkey Kong
16. Mario
17. Link
18. Mewtwo
19. Ness
20. Mr. Game&Watch
21. Yoshi
22. Roy
23. Zelda
24. Bowser
25. Kirby
26. Pichu

 

[xcxc28]

SO, onto the tier list. I haven't been to tournaments except for the ones which I play with my friends but I have been playing melee for a long time (since it came out) with my friends and we learned from each other and learned about each character and what they can do. I watch a lot of proffesional gameplay so I know all the pros and who they play and I'm pretty sure I have a really good sense on what the new tier list should look like based on tournament results and my own gameplay.

1. Sheik
2. Falco
3. Fox
4. Peach
5. Jigglypuff
6. Marth
7. Falcon
8. ICs
9. Doctor Mario
10. Ganondorf
11. Pikachu
12. Samus
13. Luigi
14. Mario
15. Young Link
16. DK
17. Link
18. Roy
19. Mewtwo
20. Zelda
21. Yoshi
22. Ness
23. Bowser
24. Kirby
25. Mr. G&W
26. Pichu

 

[EPsilon933]

Falco
Sheik
Fox
Puff
Peach
Marth
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Doctor Mario
Pikachu
Ganondorf
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link
Zelda
Roy
Mr Game & Watch
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Ness

 

[Kaffie]

1. Falco
2. Fox
3. Sheik
4. Puff
5. Peach
6. Marth
7. Falcon
8. IC
9. Doc
10. Pika
11. Ganon
12. Luigi
13. Samus
14. Mario
15. Donkey Kong(Bobby)
16. Young Link
17. Yoshi
18. Zelda
19. Link
20. Roy
21. Mew2
22. G&W
23. Ness
24. Bowser
25. Kirby
26. Pichu

 

[Yeroc]

10 year tournament scene veteran and Project M developer. I think about Smash a lot.

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Puff
Falcon
Pika
Doc
ICs
Ganon
Samus
Luigi
Mario
DK
Young Link
Link
Ness
Roy
Yoshi
GW
Pichu
Bowser
Mewtwo
Zelda
Kirby

 

[CloneHat]

Voting on anyone below characters actually used in tournament is a waste of time. We don't collectively know enough about the low tiers to rank them effectively.

 

[~BoscoMan~]

Voting on anyone below characters actually used in tournament is a waste of time. We don't collectively know enough about the low tiers to rank them effectively.

We know enough not to use them

 

[kiw1]

Top placings. Make sure to include this information:
Don't really got a notable placement, my best was b.e.a.s.t 3, but more for teams... as well osmash#2 teams.

Size of the tournament (number of entrants as well as the entry fee)
uh really important?
Notable players who attended
beast 3: mango, scar, adam, ice, zgetto. overtriforce and so on
Who you actually beat and/or out placed
well only one really notebale was captain jadde at beast1 i guess.. even though that wasnt really huge
Best tournament victories
well yeah 5th in teams at beast 3
Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Include your tournament record with them, if known.
dunno :/ i played really close against 2 guys who were good at koc2 though (lost both 2-1 against sung + khepro or something, cf main)
Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided.
dont really think thats necessary since this isnt really a big deal

NTSC LIST

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Peach
Puff
Marth
Falcon
Doc
Pika
IC
Samus
Ganon
Mario
Mew2
Dk
Luigi
Yl
zelda
link
Roy
Ness
G&W
Yoshi
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

Well my list will be considered weird because i voted marth really low but currently i feel like marth isn't that good, of course im probably wrong since most people say marth is really good , but i feel like he only troubles fox and all the other characters that are above in my list should beat marth so i don't really see him any higher

Falco vs fox is hard, falco doesn't really lose any mu (maybe peach) but doesn't really got an edge vs marth/fox/puff, though fox has a bigger advantage in other matchups, but also struggles against falco/marth and shiek is pretty even, so overall i just would say falco is the best char.

 

[Get Low]

Hi. I'm Get Low, and I'm from Northeast Ohio. I've been attending Melee Tournaments for approximately two years. I've only attended tournaments stationed in or near Northeast Ohio, Pittsbugh, and Ann Arbor. I've never been to a National, and the only considerable regional tournament I've been to was The Big House 1. I only like to attend locals because they are cheap, and because I see Melee as just a hobby that I don't really aspire to be the best at. I've consistently placed 9th at locals for the past year. I don't really feel comfortable comparing myself to other players, but I feel as if my skill level is about as average as it gets. Last but not least, the highlight of my career was when I took a game off of Silentswag's Shiek in a pools set at a Michigan tourney.

Fox (+0)
Falco (+0)
Shiek (+1)
Jigglypuff (-1)
Peach (+1)
Marth (-1)

Falcon (+0)
Ice Climbers (+0)
Dr. Mario (+0)
Samus (+1)
Ganondorf (-1)

Zelda (+6)
Luigi (+1)
Pikachu (-2)
DK (+0)
Young Link (+1)

Link (-1)
Mario (-5)
Roy (+0)
Yoshi (+1)
Mewtwo (-1)

Bowser (+2)
Game & Watch (-1)
Ness (-1)
Pichu (+1)
Kirby (-1)

Peach > Marth: I've been saying this for a long time now. I just feel that Peach can handle matchups better overall than Marth can. Also, I think the idea of Marth being considered top 5 is very out-dated. Interestingly enough, he seems to be having slightly more success in the past few months, so maybe the top Marth players will end up proving me wrong.

I think Zelda should realistically be 12th on the tier list, but no one freakin' uses her and everyone thinks she's crap for some reason. She can kill most of the the cast after only a few hits, and landing her Bair and Fair are a lot easier than one would think. I've always looked at her as a floaty version of Ganondorf, and nearly as good.

 

[Kimimaru]

Voting on anyone below characters actually used in tournament is a waste of time. We don't collectively know enough about the low tiers to rank them effectively.

There are 26 characters in the game; whether they're used or not does not matter in making a tier list.

 

[The Hooded Informant]

Why are people saying Young Link is better than Link? In fact, he is horrible as a character. He would easily go under most, IMO. There is no reasonable way possible that Young Link can be any better than Link, as Young Link is the weaker, lighter, and horrible knockback version of Link.

And honestly, I have been playing Melee since 2004, been around tournaments, some professional, just to observe (That's why they call me "The Observer"), and I have played a lot. True to my word of the game, I know that this should be counted, too. I am The Observer/The Hooded Informant, and I know from experience, how to play the game. The game is very fun, and should be counted as to who is better with which character, but nevertheless, here are my thoughts.

Here is mine:

Marth,
Falco,
Fox,
Peach,
Sheik,
Captain Falcon,
Jigglypuff,
Dr. Mario,
Pikachu,
Ice Climbers,
Link,
Luigi
Ganondorf,
Samus,
Mario,
Yoshi,
Donkey Kong,
Roy,
Mewtwo,
Zelda,
Mr. Game and Watch,
Young Link,
Pichu,
Ness,
Bowser,
Kirby

This is somewhat different than what I said earlier in the 2010 tier list discussion, but this is my own opinion.

 

[wqqqqwrt]

is there anything to avoid regional bias?

 

[The Hooded Informant]

I do not know. The whole point of my list is to let people know that I am here to support this.

 

[harriettheguy]

7th on FL power ranks. 9th at tipped off 5, beat pc chris in a ganon ffa.

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Falcon
Puff
Peach
Doc
IC
Ganon
Pika
Samus
Luigi
Roy
Mario
YL
Link
DK
Zelda
Ness
Pichu
Mewtwo
GW
Yoshi
Bowser
Kirby

 

[BTmoney]

I will probably output an "official" list by sorting the data by parameters I haven't yet defined (maybe, people who can/have made it out of pools at a regional or national). I would also like to include other lists of the compiled data to compare and contrast how people of all skill levels view the characters in the game.

Of course I want this for lesser known players such as myself (of admittedly questionable skill) but I strongly advise you use a different parameter for an Official list. I think it'd be ridiculously cool (and I can explain why that parameter isn't the best way to do this if you want me to) if you'd have to "apply" to the official tier list with your list and validations similar to how in the past, people applied to the Back Rooms. Then you and or whoever else you see fit can determine if it is "reasonable" enough to be taken seriously and if so it will be compiled into the Official data. (This panel could be made up of volunteer high level players who can be vouched for [i.e. I'm sure there is no shortage of those who appreciate KK's and Dr. Peepee's etc. informative posts], former MBR members, and those who get their lists accepted)


A list can be questioned without being rejected.


I suppose if a list is deemed "unreasonable" (i.e. something like DK being in the same tier as Falcon when conventional knowledge will tell you that is just blatantly wrong) then the person with the rejected list and not strong enough reasons can get a chance to rebuttal and debate. I don't want to hear that "what is reasonable?" nonsense from everyone/anyone. Reasonable, is a pretty forgiving term (although this is just an idea and the criteria for what makes a usable list can be more strict). If that person fails in their rebuttal then their list will not be accepted into the Official Pool. Keep in mind you may see lists you disagree with (i.e. someone might not like my placement of marth at #3) but they just need to be vetted and "acceptable" not necessarily what is conventionally right.
Ex.
This Medium/High level player thinks something completely ridiculous about character X and his list reflects it and he fails to provide an argument than can be deemed "reasonable" by the panel. This list gets rejected.

Unknown Scrub123's list is very uncreative and he cites conventional knowledge in sufficient detail (key words) and there is nothing controvercial about it. This list is obviously reasonable and would and should be accepted and compiled. It doesn't matter that Unknown Scrub123 joined 3 hours ago if he's "right" or within reason. But of course someone who's been playing for 3 hours can't explain tier placement in sufficient detail. This process governs itself and rewards those who can express their ideas reasonably.

Would it be fair if Unknown Scrub123 did his homework but he's never made it out of pools so his opinion doesn't count and gets mashed in with the public (even though he argued within reason) while this more well known person says something incorrect but gets better treatment and gets his opinion into the Official List? Admittedly, more well known players are less prone to believing ridiculous things, I think this is the best method because once again it governs itself. All the idiots in the world can apply, it doesn't matter because their High tier Link lists won't be reflected in the Official List. If it's a matter of it being too much work to do all this, I volunteer myself to help as much as I can.

Like I said before I really care about this and I would like to take place in a process/discussion where my opinion and those who feel strongly about their opinions can actually shift how people view the metagame and those with good ideas or good enough arguments are rewarded. I feel like I know too much, asked too many questions and think too hard about these things for my opinion and those like me to not be taken "seriously."

If you're not interested in making a list like this and you just want to do skill tier lists, regional lists and etc. although I think you should take advantage of this and your position, then I have no qualms about doing this myself. I just doubt I'll get the same response because I am not a well known player and my skills are not vetted. I just want to take part in making a new tier list, challenge conventional wisdom, and take part in a cool ass discussion.

Thoughts?

 

[The Hooded Informant]

*sigh* I think the whole, "Young Link is better than Link" thing is a troll. I can agree on most placements, but not this. Someone tell me why you think Young Link is better.

 

[BTmoney]

Why are people saying Young Link is better than Link? In fact, he is horrible as a character. He would easily go under most, IMO. There is no reasonable way possible that Young Link can be any better than Link, as Young Link is the weaker, lighter, and horrible knockback version of Link.

Because MUs. Tier lists are determined by MUs and not individual character goodness. YL deals with some characters (Puff, Peach, floaties in general better than Link does and they are about equally bad versus other characters and if not YL is more mobile and has MUs more favorable than link.) That is why.

Explain why Armada didn't pick up Link then? YL has a niche while Link does not.

 

[MT_]

2nd at latest TX regional of ~45 people with $10 entry (losing to out of state DoH lol)
65th at Apex 2013 where I beat Alan in bracket. Beat the following in $5 MMs: Cyrain, TeeAyEye, Sung, Vudujin (I feel I am about even with all of these players, maybe a little worse as the sets were all incredibly close. I included MMs in addition to tourney sets because I don't travel OOS often, Texas is a completely unknown scene, and Apex is my only national; I played a lot of MMs to get serious sets in with good players.)
Players to contact: [from TX - Tirno, Jake13] [out of state - DoH, Sung]

Tier list:
Fox
Marth
Falco
Sheik
Jigglypuff
Peach
Ice Climbers
Captain Falcon
Doctor Mario
Pikachu
Luigi
Ganon
Mario
Samus
DK
Link
Roy
Young Link
Zelda
Ness
Yoshi
Mewtwo
Kirby
Bowser
Game and Watch
Pichu

 

[lordvaati]

*sigh* I think the whole, "Young Link is better than Link" thing is a troll. I can agree on most placements, but not this. Someone tell me why you think Young Link is better.

Same reason why some consider Mario better then Weegee-better matchups against higher tiers.

also, cause Apex 2012.

 

[The Hooded Informant]

Because MUs. Tier lists are determined by MUs and not individual character goodness. YL deals with some characters (Puff, Peach, floaties in general better than Link does and they are about equally bad versus other characters and if not YL is more mobile and has MUs more favorable than link.) That is why.

Explain why Armada didn't pick up Link then? YL has a niche while Link does not.

See, Link can easily outweigh Mario, YL, DK and Samus with ease. There is no way that it is possible for Young Link to be even the slightest, better than Link. A person who knows how to use Link in such a way (Jump->U-air->Fast-Fall->L-Cancel->Repeat or an accurate F-air combo), can easily have the upper hand. When it comes to Edgeguarding, though, Link is the best edgeguard in the game, with his Semi-spike that cancels all recoveries.

I am going to leave with this opinion.

Downrating any character is low for us. Why can't we just rank the players, rather. It would make more sense than a Tier List.

 

[BTmoney]

Same reason why some consider Mario better then Weegee-better matchups against higher tiers.

also, cause Apex 2012.

See, Link can easily outweigh Mario, YL, DK and Samus with ease. There is no way that it is possible for Young Link to be even the slightest, better than Link. A person who knows how to use Link in such a way (Jump->U-air->Fast-Fall->L-Cancel->Repeat or an accurate F-air combo), can easily have the upper hand. When it comes to Edgeguarding, though, Link is the best edgeguard in the game, with his Semi-spike that cancels all recoveries.

I am going to leave with this opinion.

@lordvaati he just defeated himself, don't worry

 

[The Hooded Informant]

And what is that supposed to mean?

I am called "The Observer" for a reason, sir. Since 2004, I watch players, record data, and publish it. Most of what I say is much more factual than anything you have to say, because I see the players first-hand.

 

[Ryobeat]

• Top placings. Make sure to include this information: 4th at a No johns Local
  • Size of the tournament (number of entrants as well as the entry fee) 19 players, 10$ for singles, 10$ for venue
  • Notable players who attended: MH DJ Nintendo, Slox, T.webb, Mafia
  • Who you actually beat and/or out placed Beat: T.webb/ Outplaced Captain Smuckers, Jsex, T.webb
• Best tournament victories; Vs T.webb; Set was 2-1
• Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Jsex, T.webb, Captain Smuckers more or less.
• Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided. Alukard, T.webb, Jsex
  
  Tier List:
  
  Tier S
  
  1.Fox
  2. Falco
  3. Sheik
  
• Tier A
  4. Jigglypuff
  5.Peach
  6. Marth
  7.Falcon
  
  Tier B
• 8.Ice Climbers
  
• Tier C
• 9. Doctor Mario
  10. Pikachu
  11. Samus
  12. Ganon
• Tier D
• 13.Mario
  14.Luigi
  15.Young Link
  16.Link
  
• Tier E
• 17.DK
  18.Yoshi
  19.Ness
  
• Tier F
• 20.Mewtwo
  21.Game and Watch
  22.Bowser
  
• Tier G
• 23. Zelda
  24.Roy
  25.Kirby
  26.Pichu

Don't mind the extra bullets, I can't format for my life.

 

[MountainGoat]

Hooded Informant please stop trolling.

 

[The Hooded Informant]

http://smashboards.com/entries/interception.4641/
Please watch the video and enjoy.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

stuff

Thats similar to how tier lists were done in the past, but the melee community is starting to die out (or at least have less to talk about on the boards). The MBR has had very little activity for the last year or so. I started a tier list project last summer and only managed to get ~10 people to help/vote. Then I revived the project later and opened the voting to the entire MBR and got a total of 9 people (including myself). It is possible that the MBR is not being reinstated due to the lack of activity, but I would still like to have a tier list.

This system works as a quick version of the MBR application (tell me your credentials, ei why i should count your vote) as well as a tier list vote. I don't consider myself qualified to judge who is MBR level material, so I am trying to keep it as objective as possible.

I think you will be happy with the output of this project and I think you may be misunderstanding how much emphasis I am going to put on the "everyone" tier list. I have a really neat idea for this that i'm rolling around in my head, hit me up in FB chat if you wanna know more

 

[Bones0]

I like how Melee has been "starting to die out" for 11 years now. It's a god damn zombie.

 

[Jayk]

I have been to one tournament (Rescue 2) which was primarily Brawl, anyway. I think I got either 7th or 9th or something, out of maybe 15 or 16?
My greatest accomplishment in Melee was being consistently 2-stocked by stricnyn3.
As for players I consider myself even with, I think it is a little hard to say at this point because I have played probably less than 10 people besides my friends, and I was generally either losing pretty heavily or winning easily. Maybe Gunblade.

Falco
Shiek
Fox
Marth
Puff
Peach
C. Falcon
ICs
Doc
Pika
Ganon
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Young Link
Link
DK
Yoshi
Zelda
Mewtwo
Game and Watch
Ness
Roy
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

Why are people liking my post

 

[BTmoney]

hit me up in FB chat if you wanna know more

yeah I probably will later :]

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Instead of everyone typing out their resumes, can't we just conclude the people listing Peach above Marth don't know what they're talking about?

I think that'd be a lot more efficient.

 

[The Hooded Informant]

Instead of everyone typing out their resumes, can't we just conclude the people listing Peach above Marth don't know what they're talking about?

I think that'd be a lot more efficient.

I second that. I still think Young Link is overrated, too.

 

[FourStar]

I might be a little new compared to of the people in the Smash scene but here goes my unbiased list.

S:
1. Fox (+0)
2. Falco (+0)
3. Sheik (+1)
A:
4. Peach (+2)
5. Jigglypuff (-2)
6. Marth (-1)
B:
7. Ice Climbers (+1)
8. C. Falcon (-1)
9. Pikachu (+3)
10. Dr. Mario (-1)
C:
11. Samus (+0)
12. Ganondorf (-2)
D:
13. Mario (+0)
14. Young Link (+3)
15. Link (+1)
16. Mewtwo (+4)
E:
17. Luigi (-3)
18. Donkey Kong (-3)
19. Roy (+0)
20. Zelda (-2)
F:
21. Yoshi (+0)
22. Mr. Game and Watch (+0)
23. Ness (+0)
G:
24. Kirby (+2)
25. Bowser (-1)
26. Pichu (+0)

Now this is all my opinion but it is also me trying to be as non biased as possible.

 

[Tarv]

Credentials: None really. I play the game, watch the matches, use the Internets... Anyways, here's the list feel free to discredit as you see fit:

S Tier
1. Fox (0)
2. Falco (0)
3. Shiek (+1)

A Tier
4. Marth (+1)
5. Puff (-2)
6. Peach (0)
7. C. Falcon (0)

B Tier
8. Ice Climbers (0)
9. Doc (0)

C Tier
10. Samus (+1)
11. Ganon (-1)
12. Mario (+1)
13. Pikachu (-1)
14. Luigi (0)

D Tier
15. Young Link (+2)
16. Link (0)
17. DK (-2)

E Tier
18. Mewtwo (+2)
19. Zelda (-1)
20. Yoshi (+1)
21. Ness (+2)
22. Roy (-3)

F Tier
23. Game and Watch (-1)
24. Kirby (+1)
25. Bowser (-1)
26. Pichu (0)

 

[Deleted member]

credentials: i'm me

my list:

viable: fox falco sheik marth peach jigglypuff
non-viable: the other 20

 

[Ziodyne]

falcon's not viable?
know that i have only the highest respect for you umbreon
that said, please go die in a fire
hope your whole family gets cancer
hope any pets you may have get kicked by a stranger