2013 Community Tier List

Fortress | Sveet

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Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,260
Location
Northern IL
S: Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Jigglypuff, Peach, C.Falcon, Ice Climbers​
A: Dr. Mario, Pikachu, Samus, Ganondorf, Luigi, Mario​
B: Young Link, Link, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Zelda, Roy, Mewtwo, Game & Watch​
F: Ness, Bowser, Pichu, Kirby​

Tier Name Translations
S- Top Tier, Viable. All characters in this range are viable for competing.
A- Mid Tier, Semi-Viable. These characters have been shown by their dedicated players to have the tools to compete, though it is apparent that they are slightly disadvantaged.
B- Low Tier, Probably Not Viable. Some players have done well with these characters in specific match-ups, but for the most part they aren't viable for winning tournaments.
F- Bottom Tier, Not Viable.

Voters: BladeWise, Dart!, Diakonos, Divinokage, Hax, HoChiMinhTrail, hungrybox, HyugaRicdeau, Juggleguy, KevinM, King Funk, Mogwai, Nintendude1189, Paju, Pink Reaper, Pluplue, Redd, Ripple, SleepyK, Strong Bad, SuperMatt, Sveet, SwiftBass, TaFoKiNtS, Tero., The Good Doctor, VaNz, Yeroc



Community Results

Voters: see 2nd post...


Personal Rules:

When you vote, your opinion is a reflection of your own experiences with the game. Each person should think of their own tier list and not be voting based on someone else's opinion.

It is taboo to judge someone based on their skill, but in this case it is a necessary evil. Regardless of what you put here, I will count your vote, though it may not be used in the calculation of the "official" result. I haven't followed the tournament scene very well, much less the individual region's scenes, so do your best to help me. Include as much information about your tournament experience as possible, such as:

  • Top placings. Make sure to include this information:
    • Size of the tournament (number of entrants as well as the entry fee)
    • Notable players who attended
    • Who you actually beat and/or out placed
  • Best tournament victories
  • Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Include your tournament record with them, if known.
  • Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided.
Voting Rules:

Please follow these rules carefully and completely, I will not be able to count your vote at all if you do not. I understand if you disagree with ordering some characters or another facet of the tier list, but this isn't the place to make your argument. If you have any comments or criticisms, please PM me or post on my visitor wall.

  • You must order all characters.
    • If you see two characters as tied, order them in any way you would prefer. I plan to emphasize tier placement over ordering in the compiled list, so do not get strung up over details this small.
  • You must include all characters. Please double check you have them all (there are 26 characters in melee).
  • Do not include tier divisions, simply list the characters in order (vertically). Tier divisions will be determined after voting is done. If you would like to include divisions for discussion purposes, simply put a blank line where you feel the division is.
  • Each Person only gets one vote. If you vote twice I will count neither. Feel free to go back and edit your post any time before the deadline.
  • You are not required to post an explanation behind your tier list, but it encouraged especially if you have unique placings. I will not be using this information in the tier list itself, but it would be very beneficial to the discussion around the lists.
 

voorhese

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
3,389
Location
Decatur, IN
Fox
Falco
Peach
Puff
Sheik
Marth
Falcon
IC
Pika
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Dk
Yl
zelda
link
Roy
Mew2
Yoshi
G&W
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu

I'll update credentials in a bit. sorry.
 

Griffard

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
748
Location
Geneva, IL/New Orleans, LA
Notable Placings:
None. 13th/28 at Smash WinterCon (first tourney in 2 years), Lee Martin, Zone, Rice, Taylor HJ, Freddy in attendance.
I finish around the middle of the pack at locals that have happened lately in Louisiana, but wreck everyone I play frequently.
One time I beat Sveet in a friendly with my Ness (his Falco ?) :D
References: Sveet, Ran, TaylorHJ, the Loosh
List:

Fox
Sheik
Falco
Marth
Jigglypuff
Peach
Ice Climbers
Captain Falcon
Dr. Mario
Pikachu
Samus
Luigi
Ganondorf
Mario
Yoshi
Young Link
Link
DK
Zelda
Mewtwo
Ness
Game and Watch
Roy
Pichu
Bowser
Kirby
 

MountainGoat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
247
Notable Placings:
(None basically)
Beat two people in my pool at Campbell X (NorCal regional ~60 people)
17th at Smash WinterCon 5th in Doubles (LA/ few other southern states ~30 people)
Haven't beaten anyone worth naming

Ask Griff about me Sveet, Ran on Smashboards also knows me. They know I'm not good but they'll confirm I'm not completely random.

Sheik
Fox
Falco
Marth
Jiggs
Peach
Captain Falcon
Icies
Dr Mario
Pikachu
Ganon
Samus
Luigi
Mario
YL
Link
Yoshi
DK
Zelda
Game and Watch
Ness
Mewtwo
Roy
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby


Reasoning: Sheik is the easiest to be consistent with, has great options, range, edgeguarding, killing moves, planking, projectile etc. Basically Sheik has everything you need and you're not gonna be SDing all the time or messing your tech up. Fox has great matchups, seemingly infinite tools, awesome killing power but is hard to be consistent with and is chaingrabbed/comboed hard by pretty much all characters. Falco is a crazy character with insane combos but poor recovery and some weaker matchups than Fox hold him back. Marth has great movement, range, edgeguarding, solid combos, good matchups with the important characters but sometimes has trouble killing and doesn't have a projectile.

Jiggs seemingly struggles with some random matchups and is extremely quick to die in certain situations. Peach is good but really struggles against Jiggs and Falcon, good against spacies but doesn't clearly dominate and has some weaker matchups. Captain Falcon has the killing power and speed that he's always had but doesn't have as many tools or flexibility as the other top characters as well as a poor recovery.

Icies are pretty wacky. This rating is for them with wobbling. They're kind of hit and miss but one grab is all they need most of the time. I think an ice climber could conceivably win a tournament. It's about as likely as a Captain Falcon, very very unlikely but I believe it could happen. Dr Mario is miles ahead of of Mario. Better bair, fair, dsmash, pills, grabs the ledge further down. Basically Doc can actually kill and edgeguards better. However, his options are pretty limited, his grab range sucks and his recovery can be pretty predictable.

Will edit more later maybe
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,260
Location
Northern IL
Fox
Falco
Peach
Puff
Sheik
Marth
Falcon
IC
Pika
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Dk
Yl
link
Roy
Mew2
Yoshi
G&W
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
You're the first one to reply so I will make an example out of you.

Please edit your post with some of your "credentials". Read "Personal Rules" for what I'm talking about. I am trying to stay as unbiased as possible, so do not take for granted that I know who you are or "how good" you are. I will be counting every single person's vote in one way or another, so don't worry about being excluded because of this.

You also do not have 26 characters in your list. Please go back and fix that.

As is, I cannot accept your list.

Sheik Fox Falco Marth Jiggs Peach
Captain Falcon Icies
Dr Mario PIkachu Ganon Samus
Mario Luigi
DK YL Link Yoshi Zelda
GW Ness Mewtwo Roy Bowser Pichu
Kirby

Do you want them ordered into our own tiers or just in a long list? Pretty unsatisfied with this list I'll probably edit later.
Please go back and read the first post, especially the bullets.
Tier divisions will not be counted, only ordering. Divisions will be made after the list is compiled
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,260
Location
Northern IL
Top placings: 2nd-4th at many (local) tournaments. Notable players in attendance being Kels, Tink, Matt R, Tom R, ORLY, Oro?!, Rat, Vro, Scythe, Arty, Cosmo, Trail.
42nd at FC10-R
13th at SMYM (11?)

Top tournament wins: Kels (2-0) (overall record: ~1-20), Dart (2-0) (overall record: ~2-5), Duck (2-1) (overall record: 1-2), Matt R (2-0) (overall record: ~1-5)

Players I consider myself about even with: ORLY, Oro?!, Scythe



Tier list:
Falco
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Puff
Falcon
ICs
Doc
Pikachu
Ganon
Luigi
Mario
Samus
Donkey Kong
Link
Young Link
Yoshi
Zelda
Roy
Game & Watch
Mewtwo
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby
 

pokemongeof

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,141
Location
In The Year of Luigi
Alright I shall try.

I live in the East Coast, and I have gone to three tournaments:
United 1- Hosted by Apple and BIddy - 11 entrants. $10 venue fee, $10 for singles, and $5 per teammate. (Notable Players: M2K, Nario, ADHD, Vex etc.) Won 7th in singles and teams. Was beaten by Nairo and ADHD in Melee!
Apex 2013- Only went for friendlies: Day 3 (Notable Players- Do I really need this?)
NoJohns 3/2/13- Hosted by Alukard- 23 singles entrants, 10 teams, $10 venue and singles, $5 per teammate. (Notable Players: Hax, Tope DJN, Reno, The Moon, D1, Slox) 9th place with random partner.

You may ask people who know who I am, possibly M2K

Fox
Falco
Peach- Her Metagame has been buffed up with using the turnips, d-smash, and floating.
Jigglypuff
Falcon
Marth
Shiek
Ice Climbers
Doctor Mario
Samus
Ganondorf
Luigi
Pikachu
Mario
DK
Young Link
Link
Mewtwo
Zelda
Yoshi
Roy
Bowser
Ness
G&W
Kirby
Pichu
 

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

PhD; Smash Community Studies
Premium
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
3,263
Location
Ontario, Canada
3DS FC
2191-7691-7941
  • Top placings. Make sure to include this information:
    • Size of the tournament (number of entrants as well as the entry fee)
    • Notable players who attended
    • Who you actually beat and/or out placed
My top placing would have to be 9/17 at the most recent Local I was at. Most of the good Toronto players were there, Unknown, Weon - X and Kirbykaze most notably. I didn't beat or outplace anyone notable.
  • Best tournament victories
I guess my "best victory" would be that time I beat a Sheik with Ganon.
  • Players who you consider yourself to be of about even skill with. Include your tournament record with them, if known.
Even skilled, I guess I'd have to say the most evenly skilled player I've played in tournament is Mprime, I'm 0-2 in tournament with him but 1-0 in MMs

Another person would be Bing, I'm 1-4 in tournament and 1-2 in MMs, all of my losses were with Mewtwo or Ganon and both my wins were with Marth.
  • Any players in your community who I could contact as a personal reference and/or to verify information provided.
Any of the players listed above, and pretty much any other players from Toronto should do.

Anyway, on to the list:
1. Falco (+1)
2. Fox (-1)
3. Sheik (+1)
4. Marth (+1)
5. Peach (+1)
6. Puff (-3)
7. Falcon (+0)
8. ICs (+0)
9. Doctor Mario (+0)
10. Pikachu (+2)
11. Samus (+0)
12. Ganondorf (-2)
13. Luigi (+1)
14. Mario (-1)
15. Young Link (+2)
16. Link (+0)
17. Donkey Kong (-2)
18. Yoshi (+3)
19. Mewtwo (+1)
20. Roy (-1)
21. Zelda (-3)
22. Ness (+1)
23. Mr. Game And Watch (-1)
24. Bowser (+0)
25. Pichu (+1)
26. Kirby (-1)

Explanations for some notable stuff:

Falco > Fox: This was difficult, but I put Falco ahead because he slightly better results and, in my opinion, slightly better options

Puff -3: I lowered Puff so drastically because it seems like people are starting to get better at dealing with her spacing game, and because I don't see many Puffs outside Hbox placing well

Doc>Pika>Samus>Ganon: This grouping is a combination of results and capabilities, I placed Doc over Pika because, while they have similar results, I feel that Doc is a bit more solid as a character. Samus > Ganon is because I feel that Samus has more of a "surprise factor" and more potential than a straightforward character like Ganon, as shown by ESAM beating Javi at Apex, and then beating Chillin a few weeks after that. There are also other Samuses, like Plup, bring in results, while most of Ganon's results are from one person (i.e. Kage)

Luigi > Mario: This is because Luigi seems to have gotten better results over the last year and a bit, with relatively good placings by people such as Vudujin, while Mario appears to not be getting much results at all.

YL > Link > DK: I think that the Links just have more options than DK, mostly by virtue of having projectiles.

Yoshi > Mewtwo > Roy > Zelda: Vmans combo video and a lot of stuff Leffen used to say convinced me that Yoshi has more potential than the other characters. Mewtwo is next because he has better movement options, a better recovery, and I feel like he has better combo ability than Roy and Zelda. Roy is above Zelda because I feel that just having the attack range that comes with a sword gives him a slight advantage.

Ness > GW: This was basically a coin flip, as in, I flipped a coin to decide who to place higher because you said I couldn't have ties

Pichu > Kirby: I placed Pichu over Kirby because I personally believe that Pichu's better movement and more gimicky playstyle gives him an advantage
 

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
1,316
Location
Corvallis, OR
So how exactly will player skill be weighted against their list? Perhaps give them a multiplier based on their skill? Also, do you think any bias will be negated by the size of entries? Do you think you might have an editing phase on the final list? (As in falco scores 1.48 and fox scores 1.4, would that merit a tiebreak discussion?) I'll add stuff here when I'm not in class.



My list:
1. Falco - His ability to control the stage, consistently combo well, win neutral games and dominate the air with his powerful aerials really cover his MUs well. Although he is very exploitable when he is on the defense, he has a many options in his recovery that make up for it (and ability to capitalize on 1frame openings to stat a combo make up for that.) Falco consistenly (across his entire MU spread) maintains his ability to beat anyone he can outplay, giving him no disadvantage while playing against anyone at top level play.
2. Fox - His incredible potential allows him to dominate most MUs, and his incredible speed and power allow him to outright invalidate certain characters. His only flaw is while only the defense he is still exploitable (to a lesser extent than the bird), but he makes up for this with his ability to take huge gains from any openings he can get. (Probably best average MU spread (weighted by popularity)

3. Shiek - Very fundementally sounds character, with a few weaknesses but nothing dealbreaking. Has tons of MUs that are really good for her, probably the best average MU against characters (not weighted by popularity)
4. Puff - Amazing ability to zone, can punish by taking a whole stock whenever she can set up for a rest (constant threat, good for comebacks) doesn't usually have any problem with getting gimped or comboed to hard, and is good at edgeguarding. Although she is very subject to being shut out and has several MUs that are close to even, and a few even/slight losses.
5. Marth - Great range and movement make him amazing at zoning, and he has a ton to gimping/killing power. Unfortunately he can be edgeguarded and comboed pretty hard. Great at walling out floaties, and only has a few hard MUs.
6. Peach - Very consistent, has strong punishes, can overcome all of her problematic MUs decently, has great power and priority, as well as an amazing recovery and is hard to combo. A very solid character overall, I think this is a pretty uncontroversial spot for her.
7. Falcon - He can destroy while on the offense, has great combo and killing power, but gets comboed and edgeduarded pretty hard. He also has trouble getting in against a good amount of characters. He has a ton of potential, but still has limitations.

8. Ice Climbers - Very unique character, I think this is a fair spot to represent their potential, but they aren't understood/developed enough for a definite position.

9. Doc - Ver fundementaly sound character, can gimp pretty well and has decent KO power, lots of solid moves but not particularly remarkable.
10. Pikachu - Has a ton of limitations, and I don't think she is the 10th best character overall, but she is much better at handling spacies than the people below her, who is most of who you fight in tournament anyway. Her MUs against Fox/Falco alone get her this high up.
11. Samus - She is simply not able to keep up with the people on the list above her, but she is definitely still a good character, she just can't really do anything to get her higher up.
12. Ganon - He gets hard countered by very popular characters. He is really solid, but just is too limited to keep up with the top tiers.
13. Mario - Is probably better than 13th, but he isn't doesn't offer much incentive to play him over doc, so he is underdeveloped/underrepresented.

14. Luigi
15. Yoshi - Great movement, solid hits, does a ton of damage, has great KO power, is super hard to kill, doesn't get gimped. He is better than the current tier list shows, esp. With current use of his shield drop to improve his defense, parrying as an amazing reversal option (best in game IMO), and being able to plank with edge-cancelled eggs (one frame vulnerable, sends out ~4 eggs every 3 seconds which can multihit shields and do 13% each). He still has a ton of limitations though.
16. DK
17. YL
18. Link
19. Zelda
20. Ness

21. G&W
22. Mewtwo
23. Roy
24. Kirby
25. Bowser
26. Pichu

Credentials: Took 7th this month and last month in the monthly REVO tournament series, beating Kieth(10th on current Oregon PR), Kendal, Jarod, and others. The last one had 21 entrants and the one before it had around the same amount. My best victory was I 2-0ed a guy named C!z(one of the best in WA, beat Bladewise today) in a $1 MM, but that was only a dollar, and he is overall better than I am (result unlikely to be repeated) . I consider myself comparable in skill to Violence, Ryan (took a friendly off Axe, gotten 3rd in Oregon torunament before). (Note, because I'm saying I'm comparable in skill to these people and citing the best friendly they've ever won, doesn't mean I think that is similar to how good I am, Axe would probably destroy me.) To contact: Bladewise, Eggz, FoosJr

Edit: May 25th ran a state tournament with 18 entrants and got 3rd in doubles and 7th in teams.

Posting this thread in Oregon's group.
 

Kimimaru

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
915
Location
CA
Tournament: Norcal Regionals (~90 entrants)
Notable players who attended: Hungrybox, Axe, S2J, Silent Wolf, Shroomed, PewPewU, Bladewise
Who I actually beat (just in this tournament bracket pool): Alan

Best Tournament Victories: Beating SideFX (2-1) and Alan (2-1), who are both currently ranked on the Norcal PR, were my greatest victories.

Even with (estimate): L (1-2, 1 tournament set), Zeldafreak (N/A, friendlies), Toph (N/A, friendlies), V3ctorman (didn't play, but people who did play both him and me compared our skill levels; disregard if you wish)

People to contact: Shroomed, PewPewU

LIST:

Sheik
Falco
Fox
Peach
Jigglypuff
Falcon
Marth
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Dr. Mario
Samus
Ganondorf
Yoshi
Luigi
Mario
Young Link
Link
Donkey Kong
Mewtwo
Mr. Game & Watch
Ness
Zelda
Bowser
Roy
Pichu
Kirby

Reasons:
Sheik: Great range, great projectile (needles), great edge game, downthrow can be used to chaingrab or techchase the entire cast. Her grab range and shield are among the best, and has many combos that always lead into a solid finisher. Her major flaw is her recovery, but she can transform into Zelda to patch that up a bit.

Peach: She has less trouble with characters lower than her than Jigglypuff. The most notable character is Young Link. She can deal with camping easier than most and can approach more safely than most characters with FC aerials. Downsmash punishes are usually low risk, high reward.

Falcon: I think he's very close to Marth, but I put him above because he has a much easier time killing and has less trouble with some lower tiers than Marth. I think they're interchangeable, to be honest.

Pikachu: Fast, great gimping ability, powerful finishers, one of the best recoveries. His major flaws are a small shield, one of the smallest grab ranges, and lack of much range on his attacks, although his speed patches this up a bit.

Yoshi: Parrying, DJC aerials, shield pressure, aerial grab, heavy, good combos, great projectile (Eggs). Yoshi's major flaws are his inability to jump out of shield, his long ending lag on some of his attacks, and his high skill floor. Parrying allows him to change the tide of a match with a counterattack and his light shield can push him out of pressure. Three invincible edgehogs, ECEs, and superarmor on his double jump can make him hard to edgeguard, and his weight makes him almost always live past 110+%.

Notes about Dr. Mario, Samus, Ganondorf, Yoshi, Luigi, Mario: I feel these characters are pretty close overall, but since we can't have ties I just decided to order them this way.

Ness: Decent zoning with F-air, strong B-throw, and DJC aerials. Ness' major flaws are his easily gimpable recovery, lack of range (and speed to compensate), and his poor ground game. Unlike Roy, Ness has more reliable finishing moves and doesn't get combed ridiculously hard.

Bowser: Great OOS, strong, but slow aerials, aerial grab, and great ledge attack and rolls. He's above the last 3 because he has more range, killing power, and an overall better moveset (despite the low speed).
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Highest placing: Local/3rd , $5 entree fee
Notable players in attendance: Hanky Panky, Abu (Prince_Abu) then less notable people/randoms

You can ask hanky panky about my credibility on game/theory knowledge

I will be the first to tell you I'm not that great yet, you know how good or bad I am Sveet and you should have us come over again. Fun times. I might be around average but I say I am horrible (but even when I win I always say I played bad) but I am methodical with my analysis and I think I have an understanding of the game disproportional to my experience. I hope you can appreciate that I thought long and hard about this. I'm willing to defend my list too.

Eh, for some sort of reference I am notably worse than Hanky Panky. I've never beaten his Peach in a million friendlies but I've beaten his other characters/secondaries various times. Same for Abu, Abu sucks. I'm better than some random people in Columbus that are actual players.

I'm almost convinced that either Hanky or Abu is the 3rd/4th best in Midwest lol.

Ignoring all that, I want my list and explanations to supersede all semantics.

Falco
Fox
Sheik/Marth (tie)
Puff
Peach
Falcon
Ice Climbers
Doc
Pikachu
Mario
Ganon
Samus
Young Link/Luigi (tie)
G&W
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Link
Roy
Ness
Mewtwo
Zelda
Kirby
Bowser
Pichu


Explanations:
This list is sort of a combination of theory and practice/results.

Fox:
On paper Fox is clearly the best character in the game and I don't think anyone can argue otherwise, at least no one is going to convince me. However, placing him at #1 is counter intuitive when you look at recent tournament results which have been dominated by Falco (and obviously Peach with some Sheik). It is becoming more and more evident that Fox naturally has a high variance style and not only does he rely too much more on precision than every other character, he get can easily get his momentum and situation reversed with each technical or small error (i.e. attempting to drill peach but she jumps into you at the last moment and now you got dsmashed etc.) On a macro scale, Falco does not have as big of an issue with this because of his better tech rolls, longer jump squat, the relative ease of laser controller, and his best move (Falco's dair) being entirely stupid. Needless to say Fox also gets punished extremely hard and has the most developed anti-meta which hurts his viability. While he is still excellent, he is not as likely to perform as Falco is in a tournament setting.

Let me stress how excellent Fox is though with an excerpt from Umbreon.
Umbreon said:
fox operates in the neutral game based on his movement. due to the nature of his initial dash, full run speed, jump speed, and jump height, fox has the ability to move faster than most characters have the ability to cover options when neither character has the ability to punish prior to a conversion (the neutral game). the strategic element to fox's neutral game is therefore basic exploitation of the opponent's inability to cover his options prior to fox dedicating/over-extending on his own error. unlike other characters, fox's core strategy is based fundamentally on his movement and not his moves.

shine does not aid in this functionality. shine is an option for punishment or conversion into punishment only. to complain about fox's shine is to complain about his punishment game. your argument is an inability to deal with his strategic movement with attribution error. if you really wanted to make fox worse or less broken, you would remove his ability to choose when to attack by making his jumps and dash less effective in some way. removing shine does not solve the problem at all, and actually may aid fox by giving the player less incentive to over-extend and reducing poor decision-making on the part of the fox player.
etc. for context, that was a response explaining why Fox is perceived to be, and actually is, broken.



Sheik:
Sheik is where she is because she is disproportionally "easy" to play when compared to other characters and that goes well with her disproportionally hard punishes and edge guarding. This actually matters in a tournament setting. For example the Fox vs Falco MU on paper is probably even or even possibly in Fox's favor but Fox has to work so much harder than Falco does to kill and combo him. Falco can get 60% off a shine and it's not all that difficult. Apply that to Sheik now in her MUs. She "Falco's" a lot of characters (i.e. she punishes them with less effort and sometimes more severity than other characters do her). She can also plank stupidly well that really really plays into her favor when you want to play lame. However, while Sheik as a whole is better than Marth with her overall MU spread being much better versus the worse characters, Marth deals with space animals and Puff better than Sheik does. Marth players also no longer have an excuse to lose helplessly to Sheik as Dr. PP provided Marths with a very strong formula with a strong emphasis on movement, poking, and zoning with fair.



Marth:
This is where things get saucy
TheCrimonBlur said some of what I want to express here:
Read This
Essentially I feel like movement oriented characters are superior in design. That is just a blanket statement.
the rest:
Marth gets extremely hard punishes with his uair chains on pretty much everyone but Puff once you buy into what Umbreon talks about. Also, the punishment/ease of punishment scale is tipped in his favor vs space animals although they can do so some very bad things to him and edge guard him almost equally well. Really, Marth just needs to abuse his ridiculous dash dance and grab range then uair chain. Additionally, he has a very strong and safe poking game with dtilt (and fair) that deliciously gets better with his dashdance. Play styles with a bigger focus on that are now becoming popular and have proven to be effective (PP vs Armada, PP vs M2k, PPU improving etc.) He still has his tippers and edge guarding of course. His gimping rival's that of Sheik's. Really once Marth's other than PP start subscribing to Umbreon's methodology (and they stop nair'ing all the time) I think you'll see Marth placing higher or functioning very well at the highest level. Not to mention PP proved the Marth vs Sheik MU isn't holding him back as a character. Seriously Umbreon and PP are the two (and of course M2k although he's never been one to focus on a ground game, throw in Cactuar too) to look to for Marth methodology. I think TheCrimonBlur gets it too although he is a tad more radical with his opinion. A good mindset to have is to make the game unplayable for your opponent and Marth can do this very well with his uthrow, uair, and they way he commands large amounts of space with his dashdance and range in general. I wish I could convey this better but essentially my opinion of Marth is identical to Umbreon's and has then been influenced positively by TheCrimsonBlur, Cactuar, and Dr. PP.



Falco:
Now Falco. While he does not posses the movement prowess of Fox he is great in very similar ways. Namely, offensively, similar to Fox he has absolutely great options. However Falco begins to edge him out for reasons stated above and the ease at which he can manifest advantageous situations via lasers and appropriate pressure strings. Falco makes up for his lack of horizontal speed (both on the ground and in the air) with lasers but operates in a way comparable to Fox in neutral through a different vehicle. I will say, however, that in the future if this game's meta is going to be developed further, proficient shield dropping will make Falco a worse character as he will not be able to demand an entire horizontal plane as easily. At that point, I could see Fox returning to #1 but who knows when or if that day will come. On the other hand, even that is questionable because Falco beats worse characters by a larger margin than Fox does (similar to Marth's low tier MUs versus Sheik's) so he may forever be "better" overall. I am having a hard time articulating this opinion because I feel like I am beating a dead horse at this point, Falco wins tournaments and Falco has been great for years already.


Falcon:
Don't feel like regurating my post, so here it is verbatim. Basically, I think Falcon is pretty solid. He should be exactly where he is.
Ado said:
IMO, falcon is a very technical/momentum character in melee. Combos are started when you are in the zone and can feel him. (Same with all characters i know, but ESPECIALLY falcon).
I think that that is a wrong and bad mentality for Falcon players to have. Combos are started when you grab at the correct percent or land one of his decent combo starters. Lucky for me, as a fairly new player, I was able to harass Umbreon enough to get him to explain to me some of his views while I was still in my game-theory infancy. Here is a post of his, it is about why Fox is a broken character:

Umbreon said:
oh, so you're going to play stupid. or you are stupid. okay, let's do this.

fox operates in the neutral game based on his movement. due to the nature of his initial dash, full run speed, jump speed, and jump height, fox has the ability to move faster than most characters have the ability to cover options when neither character has the ability to punish prior to a conversion (the neutral game). the strategic element to fox's neutral game is therefore basic exploitation of the opponent's inability to cover his options prior to fox dedicating/over-extending on his own error. unlike other characters, fox's core strategy is based fundamentally on his movement and not his moves.

shine does not aid in this functionality. shine is an option for punishment or conversion into punishment only. to complain about fox's shine is to complain about his punishment game. your argument is an inability to deal with his strategic movement with attribution error. if you really wanted to make fox worse or less broken, you would remove his ability to choose when to attack by making his jumps and dash less effective in some way. removing shine does not solve the problem at all, and actually may aid fox by giving the player less incentive to over-extend and reducing poor decision-making on the part of the fox player.

if you're implying that shine is strategic for fox because it encourages the player to play worse when he need not do so, then congratulations, you're just better than me.
Wasn't that utterly delicious? Here is my opinion now, applying this to Falcon. With a better dash dance, more horizontal air speed, and a falling speed that isn't too far off, Falcon effectively is similar to Fox with some differences of course. In a realm of perfection even when considering the flaws of the character, Falcon is a pretty great character due to reasons mentioned above as they can be applied to him. However in the realm of a tournament, sub-optimal play, and "play styles" (having a play style [i.e. "I go for a lot of stomps" or "I play really aggressively"] that involves anything other than correct decision making is degenerative) Falcon beings to struggle and that only gets compounded with his comparatively (relative to the rest of the cast) flawed design.

Falcons instead need to learn optimal play and stick to it. For example you can uthrow Marth into a knee at 68% (if that number is wrong, which I don't think it is, that's not the point, just bare with me). At 68% there is no more chaotic neutral game to flirt in where you can make mistakes and get punished and all the variance becomes negligible because you just knee'd him and he's either going to die or be put in a position to be edge guarded or abused while he tries to fall. All of those situations are very advantageous and if you want Falcon to be good you need to create as many of those situations as possible. When you grab Fox, downthrow him into a tech chase regrab. Do not raptor boost, do not stomp, do not try to knee hoping he missed his tech. Master that sequence and perform it over, over, and then one more time again. Be as lame as possible. However I will say when calling a roll is fairly safe it is okay (i.e. they are by the ledge and they always roll in, then go ahead and try to call it sometimes because if they don't roll into center stage, you still have stage control). Falcon's strengths are his speed, his low kill percents, decent edge guarding, and his grab game.

It does not matter how hard (and easily) Fox can punish you when you are punishing him. But it matters a ton when you start making mistakes, making guesses, and doing other bad things. It is MUCH easier to win the space animal MU has a spacie (because they can play much less perfectly than you and still win) but he has what it takes to do it. When you grab Falco, uthrow him, position yourself correctly and tech chase regrab him. Don't let him pillar you and do 100% before you can reestablish neutral because you grabbed him and decided to stomp in place as a guess and missed your punishment then you got put into a reversal situation. All that being said, Falcon is forever going to have a hard time with Fox and especially Falco simply due to the structure of the game but he is not as flawed as people think.

Some of Falcon's flaws are as followed:
  • low percent game
  • stages can mess with his grab game
  • combo fodder
  • edge guard fodder
  • crouch cancel game
The biggest flaw to me is his low percent game. If that can be optimized then he can become a pretty good character. Also he needs to manifest grabs versus violent characters such as space animals which currently are hard to come by. I believe proficient shield dropping will also help Falcon improve a ton versus Falco so he can platform camp him hard and more or less do what peach does with her float.

While I'm at it, I'll say that S2J and Windrose are probably the two Falcon's with the best and most efficient "play style" (while Hax obviously is the most successful and best Falcon, throw Mango in somewhere too but he does what he wants lol. Windrose obviously isn't that caliber player but I've read up on his posts, listened to his commentary, and seen him play and I think he's got the right ideas whether or not he can be a top tier Falcon is besides the point). They emphasize the correct things. Darkrain too I guess when he's active. Mango said that Darkrain is by far the lamest Falcon to play because all he'll do is dash dance grab tech chase. Those are all great things for Falcon to do coincidently, you can't lose the game if you take away all your opponent's options. Hax however recently has improved leaps and bounds and I think him playing Mew2king as often as he does helped push the character, he's starting to be a very, very player scary player. He's starting to look more like mew2king himself; he can now bait out mistakes and perform absurdly certain and ruthless punishments (i.e. when all the commentators get hype because Mew2king got a grab on FD, Hax is almost that scary now) I imagine it is the result of a character (Falcon) who get's abused so easily defensively. When he is operating in the extremely violent vs. Sheik (and mew2king's Sheik) you can see exactly what it is that Falcon can do in neutral not to mention is hard and true combos. When Hax is at his best, you can see that the character does not limit him too much within reason and coincidentally he is the most movement oriented player currently (Dr. Peepee is pretty buttery himself with his Marth). He'll get his grab or combo starter out of a bait or series of movement and go to work. This is a winning formula for Falcon. Generally speaking, being lame is playing the game optimally. (i.e. Marth, uthrow->uair juggling repeatedly, Sheik stalling the ledge, Fox platform/dashdance camping, Falco laser'ing correctly, chain grabbing in general, etc. lame styles are the best styles). Falcon has decent potential to play lame.
Here is a drop off in how much I can go into detail or how much I know about a character

Puff/Peach:
Not extremely educated on these characters but Puff fits the movement bill (sort of) and she has her x factor which isn't going anywhere. Her zoning game is still ridiculous and she can give every character in the game an extremely hard time. We all know what Peach can do, if Peach could beat Puff then I would put Peach above Puff on my list. Not too adamant about either character but I feel I got the placement right as I am not reinventing the wheel here.


Another Drop off

IC's:
Wobbling helps them out, obviously not quite as good without wobbling because their stupidly hard grab/punish game is now affected by the stage and is easier to escape or for the grabber mess up the execution. (i.e. instead of 4 grabs being game [four wobbles = four stocks], say 6 grabs will be game because your opponent SDI'd out or you dropped a handoff once, or you got a grab on a platform/by the ledge etc. IC's only get so many chances to grab in a match and meta based around not getting grabbed.)

Pikachu:
What cast member can Pikachu completely not deal with other than Sheik? People even think he beats Marth (although I don't think that's true at all, but apparently he can do some good things) so he deserves this spot. He's had better results than the characters worse than him and even better than Ganon and Samus. He has a strong movement game, recovery, and edge guard game.

The rest of the cast gets a cluster**** post here because I don't really care about them or they won't be mentioned at all

Rest of list:
Doc/Mario: pretty solid
Ganon: will always be a factor because he isn't THAT slow for how strong he is
YL: gives floaties a hard time, probably has some more metagaming to do
Yoshi: see yoshi players, apparently he isn't god awful. Just not good at all
Roy: has a that great dash dance, dtilt, and ground game
G&W: go play a serious G&W and tell me his fair and nair aren't the stupidest things ever. His dash dance is pretty solid as well.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,260
Location
Northern IL
Nobody's vote will count for more than any other. I am considering sorting people into different skill categories (i dont know how yet, but we'll see) and then making different lists. An everyone list is obvious, then maybe a top X national placers list, regional champions list, etc. The more information the better. What I can do with the information really depends on how many people vote. If we can get 100 votes or more I would be thrilled.
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Nobody's vote will count for more than any other. I am considering sorting people into different skill categories (i dont know how yet, but we'll see) and then making different lists. An everyone list is obvious, then maybe a top X national placers list, regional champions list, etc. The more information the better.
I think that's fair and good, i'm actually super interested in this
 

MountainGoat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
247
You should post this in a few of the melee facebook groups. A lot of people don't check smashboards very often anymore. I'll do it if you don't want to/ don't have facebook.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Premium
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,260
Location
Northern IL
Please post this in all the groups. I posted it in the chicago group but I'm not in many of the others. I would rather someone else posted them anyways, i dont like to self promote very much.
 

TaFoKiNtS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
1,027
  • Top placings. Make sure to include this information:
    • 33rd at Apex 2013, Dazwa/slox/europhoria
    • Several Norcal Locals (Wins over Atma, Scar, HMW, Lucky)
  • Best tournament victories
  • Cyrain, Lucky, PPU, Atma, Scar, Diakonos

Fox
Falco
Sheik
Marth
Puff
Peach
Falcon
IC
Doc
Pikachu
Ganon
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Dk
Yoshi
Yl
zelda
link
Mew2
G&W
Roy
Bowser
Ness
Kirby
Pichu
 

MountainGoat

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
247
Nobody's vote will count for more than any other. I am considering sorting people into different skill categories (i dont know how yet, but we'll see) and then making different lists. An everyone list is obvious, then maybe a top X national placers list, regional champions list, etc. The more information the better. What I can do with the information really depends on how many people vote. If we can get 100 votes or more I would be thrilled.
I'd love to see a tier list as determined by voters from a specific region. I bet Norcal's doc is higher than the average of the rest of the lists lol
 

AlienAllen

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
655
Location
Salem, OR
Main things to note about my list:
A: I believe that Sheik, Fox, and Falco are clearly the 3 best characters in the game. The reason I put Sheik at the top is because I think she has the best balance of good strengths and few weaknesses. Fox and Falco are basically on the same level but I gave Falco the slight edge due to his combos and lasers.
B: I think that Marth and Puff are almost on the same level. They both have good matchups against the A tier characters, but with a slight disadvantage. Peach, Falcon, and Ice climbers are all good but have some very difficult matchups. Puff and Marth are hard for Peach, Sheik and Falco are hard for Falcon, and Peach and Falcon are hard for ICs.
C: This group is hardest for me to rank excluding putting doc at the top. I considered putting doc in high tier, but I don't think he is quite at the level of those characters. I think that the next 5 are pretty interchangeable depending on the day. They all have specific strengths and weaknesses, but one is not necessarily better than the others.
D: This group seems to have the tools to do well, but with some glaring weaknesses.
E: This is where you get into the characters with nearly un-winnable match-ups in my opinion.

Sheik
Falco
Fox

Marth
Puff
Peach
Falcon
Ice Climbers

Doc
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Ganon
Pikachu

Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Link
Young Link
G & W

Ness
Mewtwo
Roy
Zelda
Kirby
Bowser
Pichu

About me:
I main Captain Falcon and am currently ranked 6th on the Oregon PR. I have been playing SSBM since it's release and have been involved in the competitive scene since 2009. I have hosted some tournaments at Oregon State University, and have gone to many tournaments in Oregon and several tournaments in Washington including NWM.

Recent tournament placing:
REVO3 in Eugene, OR
Placed 2nd in a 21 man bracket.
Lost to Eggz(1st on OR PR), but beat FoosJr(2nd on OR PR), OMGage(4th on OR PR), and Brick(7th on OR PR).

Best tournament victories:
Beat Gimpyfish62 in pools at Northwest Manifest

I am about even in skill with:
OR players: OMGage, Brick, Bird
WA players: Banana, T-Iceman, Gimpyfish62

Contacts: FoosJr, Eggz, Ratking, Purpletuce
 

Landry

Smash Ace
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
839
I don't understand the point of this... Shouldn't the MBR just vote on a list like usual since we can at least trust (to some degree) their credentials?
 

Cia

das kwl
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
8,231
Location
Top of the Tier List
I don't have much time right now but the short version is I've placed top 10 in at least 5 "international tournaments" in recent years. Here's my take on the tier list.

S Tier
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Peach

A Tier
Marth
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers

B Tier
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Luigi
Samus
Mario
Pikachu
Donkey Kong
Link

C Tier
Young Link
Yoshi (I actually think he should be higher, but I don't feel like going into that now)
Zelda
Ness
Mr. Game and Watch
Roy

D Tier
Kirby
Mewtwo
Bowser
Pichu
 

Stevo

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
2,474
Location
150km north of nowhere, Canada
Top Placings
-1st-8th at Locals/Regionals (Western Canada) for the last 10 years.
Best tournament Victories
-beat Ken and Isai in poker at OC2
Comparable players
-hard to say. Some BC players travel to the USA, and although I have not played with them recently, you could probably compare me to them.
Contact
-Alphicans (Brawl Back Room member) or Victra (known on the forums) are part of my smash community and could be contacted about me.


Fox
Falco
Marth
Sheik
Puff
Peach
Falcon
IC
Doc
Pikachu
Ganon
Samus
Mario
Yoshi
Luigi
Young Link
DK
Roy
G&W
Zelda
Ness
Link
Bowser
Mewtwo
Pichu
Kirby
 

zeldasmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,832
Location
Puerto Rico
1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Jigglypuff
5. Marth
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ganondorf (+2)
9. Samus (+1)
10. Ice Climbers (-2)
11. Dr. Mario (-2)
12. Mario
13. Link (+3)
14. Pikachu (-2)
15. Luigi (-1)
16. Donkey Kong (-1)
17. Young Link
18. Roy (+1)
19. Mewtwo (+1)
20. Zelda (-2)
21. Yoshi
22. Mr. Game & Watch
23. Ness
24. Kirby (+1)
25. Pichu (+1)
26. Bowser (-2)
 

Comatose

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
147
Location
Bay Shore, NY
Not sure if mine will count... as I do not really go to tournaments :/ I do watch a TON of melee though, maybe a half hour-an hour a day (yes I know, I have a problem) so if that counts for anything..

1. Falco (+1)
2. Fox (-1)
3. Shiek (+1)
4. Peach (+2)
5. Marth (0)
6. Puff (-3)
7. Ice Climbers (+1)
8. Falcon (-1)
9. Doc (0)
10. Ganon (0)
11. Pikachu (+1)
12. Samus (-1)
13. Luigi (+1)
14. Mario (-1)
15. DK (0)
16. Yoshi (+5)
17. Link (-1)
18. Young Link (-1)
19. Mewtwo (+1)
20. Zelda (-2)
21. Ness (+2)
22. G&W (0)
23. Roy (-4)
24. Bowser (0)
25. Kirby (0)
26. Pichu (0)
 

Strong Badam

Journey
Administrator
Premium
GRimer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
25,969
25th at RoM 5
33rd at MELE-FC, 3-way tie to make bracket
41st at The Big House 2
97th at APEX 2013
Best Donkey Kong player in the US

1. Falco
2. Fox
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climnbers
9. Doctor Mario
10. Ganondorf
11. Pikachu
12. Samus
13. Luigi
14. Mario
15. Donkey Kong
16. Young Link
17. Link
18. Yoshi
19. Zelda
20. Roy
21. Mr. Game & Watch
22. Mewtwo
23. Ness
24. Bowser
25. Pichu
26. Kirby
 

Sephirothxxx

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
663
Location
This is my house.
NNID
Royzourboy
3DS FC
4313-2332-7958
I don't understand the point of this... Shouldn't the MBR just vote on a list like usual since we can at least trust (to some degree) their credentials?
I think it's a great idea. The OP made the thread with the assumption that people would take time when making their lists and evaluating their choices, making realistic placements for each character. I think that it will ultimately be up to the MBR as to whether the list becomes official or not so they will see the final result of this list and they will have to approve it.
 

Isatis

If specified, this will repl[0x00000000]ce the
Premium
GRimer
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
10,256
Location
San Francisco, CA
NNID
reverite
Still in discussion, but the results may end up as the SWF Official.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
top placing: I think i got 17th at ROM maybe I got 13th but I think it was 17th. there were over 100 people there. I also got 65th at apex dont know which people think is better. I have won some locals, but I feel Rom placing and Apex placing mean more.
I have beaten G$, lozr, paju
even with: the moon
people to contact: D1, G$

S
falco
fox
sheik
jiggs

A
marth
peach
CF
ic's

B
Doc
Pika
Samus
Ganon

C
Luigi
Mario
Yoshi
Ylink
Link
DK

D
Zelda
Mewtwo
Mr. G&W
Roy
Ness

E
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby

Reasons:
Falco>Fox: They are both ridicules characters, it just seems falco in human hands is a little more ridicules.

pika+2: This was a tough one, part of me feels samus might be the one who should move where pika is, while pika should only go above ganon. But as things are at the moment pika's ability to get the quick gimps plus its powerful up-smash has had me give it the slight edge.

Sheik>jiggs: another hard one, pretty much i think they are even, but we were told not to make characters tied

Marth>peach: Imo they should be tied, but if i had to put one above the other it would be marth do to the face to face mu.

Yoshi: I feel the people using yoshi recently have shown he has far more potential and ability then man of the characters he was below. While it might be a little early to move him up as much as I have, I do think he has a ton of unexplored potential as a character and deserved to move up.

Ylink: atm has shown more use then everyone below him at high level play.

D tier: Honestly had a lot of trouble with this tier. Not only do I consider everyone in the tier to be un-viable but they are all honestly very close to each other in how bad they are. So I just went with gut feelings on that one. Also Ness is bad but maybe not E tier bad.

e tier: Pichu is at least fast so better then kirby. Bowser's up-B is nice i guess
 

MCOrange

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
5
Location
Lancaster, PA
I have only attended local tournaments in Lancaster, PA (20Entrants). I always get 1st.
Here is a video of a recent game I played:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuN9mP0XuXw&feature=youtube
And here is a sneak peak of a combo video a couple of smashers from my area started 2 days ago.,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFloFnGKxd0&feature=youtube
I will try to get out to more tournaments to see how I'd do against top players.

1.Falco
2.Fox
3.Sheik
4.Marth

5.Jiggs
6.Peach
7.Falcon

8.Ice Climbers
9.Doc
10.Pikachu
11.Ganon

12.Mario
13.Samus
14.Luigi
15.Young Link

16.DK
17.Yoshi
18.Link
19.Mewtwo
20.Ness

21.Zelda
22.G&W
23.Roy
24.Bowser

25.Kirby
26.Pichu
 

~BoscoMan~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
142
Location
Los Angeles
From Socal been in the scene for a year and a quarter
No notable wins but oh well

Falco
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Dr. Mario
Pikachu
Ganondorf
Luigi
Mario
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Link
Zelda
Mewtwo
Ness
Roy
Yoshi
Bowser
Mr. Game & Watch
Pichu
Kirby
 

lordvaati

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
3,147
Location
Seattle, WA
Switch FC
SW-4918-2392-4599
Have attended 1 local tournament with Melee to date in 2009....never made it out prelims :(
Will be hosting an upcoming tournamenmt tomorrow in my area(Super Smash Orgy).

Rank 1(Top)
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Peach

Rank 2(High)
Marth
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

Rank 2.5(High-Mid)
Ice Climbers

Rank 3(Mid)
Dr. Mario
Samus
Pikachu
Ganondorf
Mario

Rank 4(Lower Mid)
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Link
Yoshi

Rank 5(Low)
Mewtwo
Zelda
Ness
Roy
Mr. Game & Watch

Rank 6(Bottom)
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby
 

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
20XX
Fox
Falco
Jigglypuff
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Dr. Mario
Pikachu
Samus
Ganon
Luigi
Yoshi
Mario
Young Link
Link
Mewtwo
Roy
Ness
Mr. Game & Watch
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby
Zelda
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Still in discussion, but the results may end up as the SWF Official.
I advise against that or at least discrediting unsubstantiated posts or claims. I'm ALL for a sub forum to discuss this new tier list specifically where you would have to get posting rights like in the debate hall or wherever . That sounds great actually wink wink. And this way only people who really care will get their opinions documented. (i.e. someone who made their list in 5 minutes with shallow explanations shouldn't be equal in weight to someone who took an hour and explained their rankings)
 

Hat N' Clogs

John Tavares is a Leaf
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
6,084
Location
Southern tier NY state
3DS FC
1650-2469-6836
Switch FC
SW-3519-9567-9870
1. Fox
2. Sheik
3. Falco
4. Marth
5. Jigglypuff
6. Peach
7. Captain Falcon
8. Ice Climbers
9. Ganondorf
10. Dr. Mario
11. Samus
12. Mario
13. Pikachu
14. Luigi
15. Link
16. DK
17. Young Link
18. Mewtwo
19. Roy
20. Yoshi
21. Zelda
22. Mr. Game & Watch
23. Ness
24. Bowser
25. Pichu
26. Kirby
 
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