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1.1.3 Patch Notes Discussion

MajorGamer14

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
25
Bowser's Flying Slam has a faster animation upon command grab.

Also, upon grab, Bowser has invincibility frames up until he leaves the ground!!! I threw a Bob-omb in the air and I failed to take damage, while I got blasted in the previous version.
 
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Radical Larry

Smash Lord
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Can confirm that super lag is back Online.
Anyways, what do you guys think? Who do you think received the best buffs and who do you believe had the worst luck, outside those without changes?

I honestly believe it's Ganondorf with his Super Armor and N-Air buffs that he received. He's much more of a beast than he was in previous demos; add the fact that he has all the buffs from the previous updates and he's a solid mid-tier likely if people can utilize him. His Warlock Punch is extremely dangerous to go against now and this could pose potential problems now that he can't really be hit out of it. It's that scary.
 

pitfall356

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
140
Anyways, what do you guys think? Who do you think received the best buffs and who do you believe had the worst luck, outside those without changes?
Praise Bowser's insane throw combo, praise be Sakurai for bringing the King to his proper glory
 

LRodC

Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
Joined
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Philadelphia, PA
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Can confirm that super lag is back Online.
Anyways, what do you guys think? Who do you think received the best buffs and who do you believe had the worst luck, outside those without changes?

I honestly believe it's Ganondorf with his Super Armor and N-Air buffs that he received. He's much more of a beast than he was in previous demos; add the fact that he has all the buffs from the previous updates and he's a solid mid-tier likely if people can utilize him. His Warlock Punch is extremely dangerous to go against now and this could pose potential problems now that he can't really be hit out of it. It's that scary.
I want to say this, but I think Ganondorf not being able to force any approaches or approach himself with good mobility and frame data is what's going to keep him low on tier lists. However, he is much better now than he used to be.
 
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Darklink401

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
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Smashville
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I have reason to believe that either Sheik's grenade blows up faster, or has more endlag. I cannot for the life of me get running tipper upsmash to combo out of grenade, when it was super easy for me to do pre-patch >:
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
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Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things
 
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Mr7u7

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Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things
Well he doesn't jump as high, so his weight going up could cause that.
 

LunarWingCloud

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Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things
I remember hearing something about Limit Break improving other attributes while it's on standby to boost a Special, maybe it reduces knockback? I'm not gonna say that's it, because I'm not that good at finding this sort of stuff out.
 

MajorGamer14

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
25
Found another patch change, fellas!

We all know how Bowser should never recover to the stage while facing away from the ledge, right? Otherwise he won't grab the ledge until he goes into his helpless state!

Well, now we don't have to worry about that because no matter what direction he's facing, Whirling Fortress will auto-snap him to the ledge throughout any part of the recovery, no matter what direction he's facing!!!
 

Lavani

Indigo Destiny
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
7,256
Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things
Rage seems unchanged to me.

Don't have Cloud, couldn't answer the limit break bit. It'd be interesting if he does though.
 

Luig

Confused
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I tested it.
Luigi's up b kills cloud at 62.
When he's in Limit break, it's 64.
So, he gets some weight, fall speed or gravity change.....
 

FullMoon

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So is Lucas's standing grab the move that got the most frames taken out of it in a patch? It lost a whopping 13 frames if the data is right.
 

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
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Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things
Cloud falls faster with Limit Break.

Very obvious when trying to AC FH D-air (which can KO confirm into Finishing Touch).
 

godogod

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
643
The recoil on Mewtwo's shadowball has decreased substantially in air. It used to cover half the length of final destination in before the patch ,now its only half.
 
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YoshiYoshi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
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104
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nowhere
You can tech Cloud's down smash on the second hit.

edit - sorry, wrong place for this
 
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Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
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The stage Gamer is much brighter. At least the Omega is.
 

G-Guy

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oh boy, Mewtwo feel great. might pick him up, again. I got a friend coming over later today, so that's when he'll get tested.

also, Lucas buffs! they actually buffed my real main significantly! I love it!
 

Nintendoge_

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Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.
 
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Megalopunny3

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
28
Nothing I noticed on Falcon. Seems unchanged.
Also regarding Gamer stage it is much lighter.
Cloud perfect pivot down tilt is amazing my god, so is his pp uptilt. Does anyone know if his aerial limit break down B does more/less knock back than grounded?
 
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Fatmanonice

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Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.
Wouldn't this be a good thing? A lot of people were complaining that SSB4's doubles were janky as all get-out and this sounds like a pretty fair balance considering both of them could literally set up OHKO options in seconds. Yeah, it's not fun when your character falls from grace but it kind of opens things up competitively.
 

LordShade67

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This maybe placebo and I'll probably get infracted, but hey. I tried.

Apparently, in one of the posts in the Mewtwo boards, it's been tested that Mewtwo may actually run and walk....faster? If it's true, this may actually be a big deal and it might be worth testing for other characters.
 

Nintendoge_

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Wouldn't this be a good thing? A lot of people were complaining that SSB4's doubles were janky as all get-out and this sounds like a pretty fair balance considering both of them could literally set up OHKO options in seconds. Yeah, it's not fun when your character falls from grace but it kind of opens things up competitively.
It's definitely a good thing balance-wise, just a little disappointed since I had a really good gimmick going with my teammate centered around my pocket.

Although once the salt dissipates, I'll definitely be happy with the change. Overall removes a lot of the jank from the doubles scene.
 
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Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
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Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.
Nice! No more free passes in doubles at tourneys.
 

Megalopunny3

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
28
This maybe placebo and I'll probably get infracted, but hey. I tried.

Apparently, in one of the posts in the Mewtwo boards, it's been tested that Mewtwo may actually run and walk....faster? If it's true, this may actually be a big deal and it might be worth testing for other characters.
Did you also notice his Shadow Ball pushes him back a lot less? from center stage of Final Destination full hopping and releasing a fully charged shadow ball must be done 2 times to get to the edge of the stage. Can anyone confirm this is much less than before? Shouldn't be too hard to test
 

Nintendoge_

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PSI Magnet also seems to be nerfed, though I don't have numbers to base it on, but I assume a PK Freeze used to heal more than 14%.
 

LordShade67

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Did you also notice his Shadow Ball pushes him back a lot less? from center stage of Final Destination full hopping and releasing a fully charged shadow ball must be done 2 times to get to the edge of the stage. Can anyone confirm this is much less than before? Shouldn't be too hard to test
Just tested. Yep. Drastically less recoil.
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
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Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.
I suggested this fix a while ago in some thread. I'm surprised it took them this long to put it in, sweet.

Can confirm this neuters the Pac-Man + Villager team completely. A teammate Pac-Man's pocketed hydrant only does 4% from a drop and 5% from a launch. Great, Pac-Man indirectly nerfed.

Edit: for reference, pre patch pocketed hydrants did ~17% and KO'd ~60%. This team could launch ridiculous KO'ing hitboxes for free.
 
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Nintendoge_

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I suggested this fix a while ago in some thread. I'm surprised it took them this long to put it in, sweet.

Can confirm this neuters the Pac-Man + Villager team completely. A teammate Pac-Man's pocketed hydrant only does 4% from a drop and 5% from a launch. Great, Pac-Man indirectly nerfed.
Yeah, it removes a lot of fun gimmicks Villager had :(

Ultimately, it's for the best they implemented it, though.
 

Pazx

hoo hah
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i can confirm that sheik+g&w is no longer a strong gimmick team, vanish bucket doesn't break shields or kill at low percents anymore. nice find Nintendoge_ Nintendoge_
 
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ReroRero

Smash Apprentice
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Mar 30, 2015
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Belgium
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So are there more characters to receive landing lag changes except Mewtwo, Shulk, Ganon and Robin or the datamining is complete ?
 

SlamShady

Smash Rookie
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Alrighty, me and my fellow higher level fellow Onett boys have noticed that there is at least one or more changes to Ness this patch. Although we haven't reached a common consensus on whether the hitbox of the uair has changed, (it SEEMS smaller) it is certain that at least the animation was changed for the move. Pre-patch, his head used to expand during the move to cartoon like proportions, whereas now it looks in appearance more normal, ala the Lucas uair.

Someone else earlier in the thread mentioned something about an animation change for dair for Ness as well, so it wouldn't surprise me if either some animations were adjusted this patch (especially given the notable changes for Lucas) or perhaps we've potentially uncovered more subtle changes to hitboxes and the like.

I'm no expert on datamining, but this seems to indicate that some changes to the character may have unintentionally been overlooked? Either way, this is is something that our group will investigate further hopefully, but if anyone can find any definite proof of something more being changed, that would be outstanding. Thanks!
 

Nameless Pariah

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
16
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Houston, TX
I haven't tested it, and I don't even spend that much time in the lab, so feel free to ignore this:

Is it possible that L.Mac's super armor has been nerfed?

I was online, and I'm not sure if the connection was just ultra-**** or if it was actually easier to cause Mac to flinch while charging his FSmash.
 

Raikaru

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
8
They buffed Marth a ton over previous patches, almost more than any other character in the game. Stop being a whiny baby and learn to work with your shortcomings. I main Mewtwo and my character just received buffs.
Marth actually got nerfed last patch. Not to mention the fact that a bunch of Marth's "buffs" didn't fix his problems.

I don't actually care though.
 
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