1.1.3 Patch Notes Discussion

[Thinkaman]

You WILL be automatically infracted and temporarily banned from this sub-forum for:

• Posting false changes, good intentions or not.
• Asking what the changes were for a character instead of reading the notes yourself.
• Childish whining about buffs and nerfs.

We are keeping public discussion of patch notes separate this time, for people who want a clean separation of incoming data and chatter.

***You can find the patch notes here.***

As a reminder, this thread is exclusively for discussing the patch notes and the impact they have on competitive play. You can discuss the broader content and context of the Nintendo Direct here.

Insightful content-rich posts about the viability implications of various changes may be posted in the CCI thread. Simple discussion and questions here, thoughtful analysis there.

Finally, I ask that you avoid derailing this thread with either patch complains or patch wishlists. While there will obviously be some tolerance for those trains of thought, let's keep discussion on the patch that actually exists. Smash patches are a special enough occasion that we should choose to live in reality on days that they arrive.

 

[Locuan]

Hey guys, the Patch Notes Discussion thread (this thread) is now open. As you can probably tell there are already changes indicated in the Patch Notes Thread itself. As long as we follow the rules, everything should go smoothly. Let's get to the discussion.

 

[DunnoBro]

I noticed the DHD changes (element 33 -> 37 on the 0hitbox can) were recanted. Was it false or just not a change worth mentioning after all?

 

[Vipermoon]

I think the question a lot of people have is: the patch isn't out yet, where is this data coming from?

 

[Karsticles]

Those Mewtwo changes look like they fix most of his hitbox problems. Pretty amazing, I am excited.

I don't know how Sakurai can keep ignoring Jigglypuff, though. :-/

 

[thehard]

Funny how Lucas' mediocrity was just being mentioned and now he gets some heavy buffs. And Mewtwo is also looking mighty fine

Also thanks to all the dataminers and compilers as usual and your pre-update majik

 

[Thinkaman]

I noticed the DHD changes (element 33 -> 37 on the 0hitbox can) were recanted. Was it false or just not a change worth mentioning after all?

Yeah, elements shouldn't matter. They can almost always be regarded as gfx code.

I think the question a lot of people have is: the patch isn't out yet, where is this data coming from?

Shulk buffs.

 

[BunbUn129]

Oi, what does the Meta Knight change mean? Is it a nerf or buff?

 

[Xermo]

I think the question a lot of people have is: the patch isn't out yet, where is this data coming from?

Datamining.

 

[Thinkaman]

Oi, what does the Meta Knight change mean? Is it a nerf or buff?

Frankly, I'm not sure. A lot of the facing restriction changed I don't really understand, and want to see them in action.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

What in the Good Lord's name are they doing with my G-dorf?

Alas, none of the changes that would have made Ganondorf good came to pass, but some of these changes could at least add to his levels of comedy.

 

[Vipermoon]

Datamining.

Obviously. My question was more why and how since, you know, the patch isn't out.

 

[Thinkaman]

Pretty sure Cloud had a frame 7 jab, but I could be reading this wrong.

 

[|RK|]

Shulk buffs.

Took me a second, lol.

What can I expect from the small KBG changes as a Kirby main?

 

[Physics]

Is it possible that there will be even more changes when the patch is actually let out?

 

[Jams.]

Will progress on character changes progress past 50% before the patch is released, or will further changes require more information than what datamining can provide?

 

[BunbUn129]

Frankly, I'm not sure. A lot of the facing restriction changed I don't really understand, and want to see them in action.

And what's meant by subroutine hitbox?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Is it possible that there will be even more changes when the patch is actually let out?

IASA frames are missing so yes.

 

[Xermo]

Obviously. My question was more why and how since, you know, the patch isn't out.

Most likely the same way as all the previous leaks; they're pulled from the servers the patch is hosted on before it's live and extracted.

 

[flieskiller]

What can I expect from the small KBG changes as a Kirby main?

Imagine Kirby going to a training camp for a few weeks, that's how it should feel.

 

[Thinkaman]

All that is likely to remain are changes to endlag and landing lag of moves.

 

[Xygonn]

I wonder if the Ryu 19->4 timer change means that upb SRK will have TSRK landing lag.

 

[BlazGreen]

I noticed at the top of the page that FAF changes haven't been accounted for yet but Lucas' grab changes mention them changing. What's up with that?

 

[Furret]

Oi, what does the Meta Knight change mean? Is it a nerf or buff?

it's difficult to tell what the change specifically is as I have little to no experience with facing restrictions. What I can tell you it has to do with a low damaging multi hit move, I would suspect rapid jab since there was any specification on which file it was

And what's meant by subroutine hitbox?

hitbox specifications/details/ect that aren't stored with the hitbox itself. Happens a lot with rapid jabs and projectiles

Took me a second, lol.

What can I expect from the small KBG changes as a Kirby main?

kill earlier, changes are minuet so don't expect more then a 1-5% change in kill %s for most moves. Except maybe on the hammer
Edit: didn't notice upthrow earlier so that too

Will progress on character changes progress past 50% before the patch is released, or will further changes require more information than what datamining can provide?

I actually don't know, but I can tell you landing lag should be easily found
I wish I had the files to look at

 

[Ffamran]

Frankly, I'm not sure. A lot of the facing restriction changed I don't really understand, and want to see them in action.

Is facing restriction the thing that happens with Falco's Nair where no matter what, Falco will always send you flying the way he's facing? I'm going to assume the change, the set to 4, on Ganondorf's Down Smash only sends you back, so no weird interactions where he sends you forward. Makes sense since he's kicking you back.

 

[adom4]

What does the choke change mean for Ganondorf?
Also Thinkaman are you positive that Nair got changed AGAIN or is it just a mix up from 1.1.1?

 

[Thinkaman]

What does the choke change mean for Ganondorf?
Also Thinkaman are you positive that Nair got changed AGAIN or is it just a mix up from 1.1.1?

Positive. The 12% hitbox is now on the second hit.

 

[NotEvenAmatueR]

Also, sorry for asking, but what exactly do the MK and Ryu changes mean? Does it affect their overall gameplay at all?

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Lucas tho... A LOT of lag off his grabs and a more damaging nair?? Did not expect that at all but dang that's some good news

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Are there really NO changes for Jigglypuff or you guys haven't finished research yet?

Oh yeah, Up-Throw buff for Kirby \o/ Kirby mains rejoice!

 

[FullMoon]

Oh my god they buffed Greninja again?

Jesus.

They're basically making him kill even earlier while not hurting his combo potential at all.

And huge Lucas buffs? Best patch.

 

[Ffamran]

Lucas tho... A LOT of lag off his grabs and a more damaging nair?? Did not expect that at all but dang that's some good news

Quoted over from the Zelda social.

That reminds me... I have to update my recovery frames spreadsheet now... Let's see, if Lucas's st. grab total frames ends at frame 37... Is active from frames 12-19... He has 19 recovery frames to his old 31. That's just 6 more recovery frames than Greninja's, but with a crapton more range. Dash grab would be 26 and pivot would be 31 to the old versions' 39 and 36. Welp... I wonder what would happen if all the tether grabbers had lower total frames... *ZSS becomes SSS-tier*

 

[Furret]

Also, sorry for asking, but what exactly do the MK and Ryu changes mean? Does it affect their overall gameplay at all?

I'd really doubt if those were major changes. small things like that seemed to be changed every patch, but never seem to effect anything

What does the choke change mean for Ganondorf?

possibly larger grab, possibly grab position changed, possibly nothing

 

[WD40]

I would also like to know what is meant by, "Some random timer on a non-hitbox state changed from 19 to 4", on Ryu.

Does non-hitbox state refer to the ending lag of some move?

 

[Lavani]

Bowser uthrow changes seem interesting. Less total damage/KB and more vertical angle have me thinking there was likely an endlag reduction in there too to turn it into a combo throw.

Kirby uthrow buff changes its kill percent from 191% to 160% against Mario on 3DS FD.

The Meta Knight change is probably on Drill Rush, as you could fall out facing random directions before.

Lucas grab FAFs sound ridiculous for a tether grab on a character with four great throws.

Mewtwo dthrow angle change seems arbitrary if it doesn't come with a FAF reduction.

 

[Thinkaman]

We have no idea what that means, which is very likely to mean that it means nothing as far as we are concerned.

Additionally, I'd be willing to be a lot of donuts that Lucas's FAF data was adjusted to compensate for part of the animation speed changes on those throws. Smart money is on his throws being buffed, but not that much.

 

[Furret]

I would also like to know what is meant by, "Some random timer on a non-hitbox state changed from 19 to 4", on Ryu.

Does non-hitbox state refer to the ending lag of some move?

1. it's difficult to tell
2. no and it's not easy to explain

 

[FullMoon]

Wait did Bowser's Up-Throw just get ridiculously strong all of sudden? Those numbers look kinda ridiculous.

 

[Vipermoon]

I'm expecting that something else changed with Dancing Blade hit 2. There was nothing wrong with it's knockback growth (especially since at high percents the first hit already has too much knockback to start anything) so it's weird that they felt the need to touch it so drastically. Everybody knows by now that the second hit completely misses on most characters because it strikes too low. It's possible that the animation was fixed. Fingers crossed.

 

[Lavani]

Wait did Bowser's Up-Throw just get ridiculously strong all of sudden? Those numbers look kinda ridiculous.

It does less knockback than the old numbers until close to 250%, though it is at a steeper angle.