1.1.3 Patch Notes Discussion

[Sneak Sneaks]

Why on earth did you include Mega Man with those other characters?

I actually think he has the laggiest Fsmash, and fsmash damage is bad also, lets just ignore dsmash

 

[MajorGamer14]

Bowser's Flying Slam has a faster animation upon command grab.

Also, upon grab, Bowser has invincibility frames up until he leaves the ground!!! I threw a Bob-omb in the air and I failed to take damage, while I got blasted in the previous version.

 

[Hawgsfan4life]

There's a lot more to Bowser's uthrow changes than that. It's actually a combo throw now.

Yeah, I know, its pretty insane.

 

[Radical Larry]

Can confirm that super lag is back Online.
Anyways, what do you guys think? Who do you think received the best buffs and who do you believe had the worst luck, outside those without changes?

I honestly believe it's Ganondorf with his Super Armor and N-Air buffs that he received. He's much more of a beast than he was in previous demos; add the fact that he has all the buffs from the previous updates and he's a solid mid-tier likely if people can utilize him. His Warlock Punch is extremely dangerous to go against now and this could pose potential problems now that he can't really be hit out of it. It's that scary.

 

[pitfall356]

Anyways, what do you guys think? Who do you think received the best buffs and who do you believe had the worst luck, outside those without changes?

Praise Bowser's insane throw combo, praise be Sakurai for bringing the King to his proper glory

 

[LRodC]

Can confirm that super lag is back Online.
Anyways, what do you guys think? Who do you think received the best buffs and who do you believe had the worst luck, outside those without changes?

I honestly believe it's Ganondorf with his Super Armor and N-Air buffs that he received. He's much more of a beast than he was in previous demos; add the fact that he has all the buffs from the previous updates and he's a solid mid-tier likely if people can utilize him. His Warlock Punch is extremely dangerous to go against now and this could pose potential problems now that he can't really be hit out of it. It's that scary.

I want to say this, but I think Ganondorf not being able to force any approaches or approach himself with good mobility and frame data is what's going to keep him low on tier lists. However, he is much better now than he used to be.

 

[Darklink401]

I have reason to believe that either Sheik's grenade blows up faster, or has more endlag. I cannot for the life of me get running tipper upsmash to combo out of grenade, when it was super easy for me to do pre-patch >:

 

[Vipermoon]

Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things

 

[Mr7u7]

Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things

Well he doesn't jump as high, so his weight going up could cause that.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things

I remember hearing something about Limit Break improving other attributes while it's on standby to boost a Special, maybe it reduces knockback? I'm not gonna say that's it, because I'm not that good at finding this sort of stuff out.

 

[MajorGamer14]

Found another patch change, fellas!

We all know how Bowser should never recover to the stage while facing away from the ledge, right? Otherwise he won't grab the ledge until he goes into his helpless state!

Well, now we don't have to worry about that because no matter what direction he's facing, Whirling Fortress will auto-snap him to the ledge throughout any part of the recovery, no matter what direction he's facing!!!

 

[Lavani]

Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things

Rage seems unchanged to me.

Don't have Cloud, couldn't answer the limit break bit. It'd be interesting if he does though.

 

[Luig]

I tested it.
Luigi's up b kills cloud at 62.
When he's in Limit break, it's 64.
So, he gets some weight, fall speed or gravity change.....

 

[FullMoon]

So is Lucas's standing grab the move that got the most frames taken out of it in a patch? It lost a whopping 13 frames if the data is right.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay what happened to rage? I am extremely familiar with Marth's Uthrow with rage. It is/was a monster with rage. It's not killing when I expect it to. Does anyone have any kill percents documented at specific rage %s? I need confirmation.

Edit: Does Cloud get heavier when he has limit break? I don't remember if he had it every time but that could explain things

Cloud falls faster with Limit Break.

Very obvious when trying to AC FH D-air (which can KO confirm into Finishing Touch).

 

[link-a-link]

Kirby uthrow buff changes its kill percent from 191% to 160% against Mario on 3DS FD.

I double checked this and it actually kills mario at 148%

 

[godogod]

The recoil on Mewtwo's shadowball has decreased substantially in air. It used to cover half the length of final destination in before the patch ,now its only half.

 

[YoshiYoshi]

You can tech Cloud's down smash on the second hit.

edit - sorry, wrong place for this

 

[Vipermoon]

The stage Gamer is much brighter. At least the Omega is.

 

[D1]

I tested it.
Luigi's up b kills cloud at 62.
When he's in Limit break, it's 64.
So, he gets some weight, fall speed or gravity change.....

DId you test this in training? Is DI accounted for?

 

[G-Guy]

oh boy, Mewtwo feel great. might pick him up, again. I got a friend coming over later today, so that's when he'll get tested.

also, Lucas buffs! they actually buffed my real main significantly! I love it!

 

[Nintendoge_]

Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.

 

[Megalopunny3]

Nothing I noticed on Falcon. Seems unchanged.
Also regarding Gamer stage it is much lighter.
Cloud perfect pivot down tilt is amazing my god, so is his pp uptilt. Does anyone know if his aerial limit break down B does more/less knock back than grounded?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.

Wouldn't this be a good thing? A lot of people were complaining that SSB4's doubles were janky as all get-out and this sounds like a pretty fair balance considering both of them could literally set up OHKO options in seconds. Yeah, it's not fun when your character falls from grace but it kind of opens things up competitively.

 

[LordShade67]

This maybe placebo and I'll probably get infracted, but hey. I tried.

Apparently, in one of the posts in the Mewtwo boards, it's been tested that Mewtwo may actually run and walk....faster? If it's true, this may actually be a big deal and it might be worth testing for other characters.

 

[Nintendoge_]

Wouldn't this be a good thing? A lot of people were complaining that SSB4's doubles were janky as all get-out and this sounds like a pretty fair balance considering both of them could literally set up OHKO options in seconds. Yeah, it's not fun when your character falls from grace but it kind of opens things up competitively.

It's definitely a good thing balance-wise, just a little disappointed since I had a really good gimmick going with my teammate centered around my pocket.

Although once the salt dissipates, I'll definitely be happy with the change. Overall removes a lot of the jank from the doubles scene.

 

[Vipermoon]

Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.

Nice! No more free passes in doubles at tourneys.

 

[Megalopunny3]

This maybe placebo and I'll probably get infracted, but hey. I tried.

Apparently, in one of the posts in the Mewtwo boards, it's been tested that Mewtwo may actually run and walk....faster? If it's true, this may actually be a big deal and it might be worth testing for other characters.

Did you also notice his Shadow Ball pushes him back a lot less? from center stage of Final Destination full hopping and releasing a fully charged shadow ball must be done 2 times to get to the edge of the stage. Can anyone confirm this is much less than before? Shouldn't be too hard to test

 

[Nintendoge_]

PSI Magnet also seems to be nerfed, though I don't have numbers to base it on, but I assume a PK Freeze used to heal more than 14%.

 

[LordShade67]

Did you also notice his Shadow Ball pushes him back a lot less? from center stage of Final Destination full hopping and releasing a fully charged shadow ball must be done 2 times to get to the edge of the stage. Can anyone confirm this is much less than before? Shouldn't be too hard to test

Just tested. Yep. Drastically less recoil.

 

[BSP]

Turns out Villager was nerfed. G&W too (I think.)

If a Villager pockets their teammates projectile, it now does half the damage/knockback than before, rather than double. That literally puts Villager from SSS tier in doubles to probably mid-tier. I did a preliminary test with G&W, and his bucket seems to have a similar effect.

Darn it.

I suggested this fix a while ago in some thread. I'm surprised it took them this long to put it in, sweet.

Can confirm this neuters the Pac-Man + Villager team completely. A teammate Pac-Man's pocketed hydrant only does 4% from a drop and 5% from a launch. Great, Pac-Man indirectly nerfed.

Edit: for reference, pre patch pocketed hydrants did ~17% and KO'd ~60%. This team could launch ridiculous KO'ing hitboxes for free.

 

[Nintendoge_]

I suggested this fix a while ago in some thread. I'm surprised it took them this long to put it in, sweet.

Can confirm this neuters the Pac-Man + Villager team completely. A teammate Pac-Man's pocketed hydrant only does 4% from a drop and 5% from a launch. Great, Pac-Man indirectly nerfed.

Yeah, it removes a lot of fun gimmicks Villager had

Ultimately, it's for the best they implemented it, though.

 

[Pazx]

i can confirm that sheik+g&w is no longer a strong gimmick team, vanish bucket doesn't break shields or kill at low percents anymore. nice find Nintendoge_

 

[ReroRero]

So are there more characters to receive landing lag changes except Mewtwo, Shulk, Ganon and Robin or the datamining is complete ?

 

[nintenesc]

I think Jigglypuff has a change in this patch:
Rest Flower Damage: 36% --> 37%

 

[SlamShady]

Alrighty, me and my fellow higher level fellow Onett boys have noticed that there is at least one or more changes to Ness this patch. Although we haven't reached a common consensus on whether the hitbox of the uair has changed, (it SEEMS smaller) it is certain that at least the animation was changed for the move. Pre-patch, his head used to expand during the move to cartoon like proportions, whereas now it looks in appearance more normal, ala the Lucas uair.

Someone else earlier in the thread mentioned something about an animation change for dair for Ness as well, so it wouldn't surprise me if either some animations were adjusted this patch (especially given the notable changes for Lucas) or perhaps we've potentially uncovered more subtle changes to hitboxes and the like.

I'm no expert on datamining, but this seems to indicate that some changes to the character may have unintentionally been overlooked? Either way, this is is something that our group will investigate further hopefully, but if anyone can find any definite proof of something more being changed, that would be outstanding. Thanks!

 

[Nameless Pariah]

I haven't tested it, and I don't even spend that much time in the lab, so feel free to ignore this:

Is it possible that L.Mac's super armor has been nerfed?

I was online, and I'm not sure if the connection was just ultra-**** or if it was actually easier to cause Mac to flinch while charging his FSmash.

 

[Raikaru]

They buffed Marth a ton over previous patches, almost more than any other character in the game. Stop being a whiny baby and learn to work with your shortcomings. I main Mewtwo and my character just received buffs.

Marth actually got nerfed last patch. Not to mention the fact that a bunch of Marth's "buffs" didn't fix his problems.

I don't actually care though.

 

[Player-1]

Yeah, it removes a lot of fun gimmicks Villager had

Ultimately, it's for the best they implemented it, though.

made a vid for it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScO8RGiHITU

 

[BSP]

made a vid for it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScO8RGiHITU

Your description says team healing has been nerfed too, but I didn't see it. A 300% Lucario firing an aura sphere into Lucas' PSI magnet healed 30% for me regardless of whether or not Lucario was on Lucas' team.