ZSS Match-up Odds (Descriptions added)

[ph00tbag]

Edge guard and ledge guard = two different things.

I do have to chuckle at you here. Splitting hairs is not necessary. And frankly, the two words are interchangeable. No ifs ands or buts.

 

[Emblem Lord]

They have two distinct meanings.

Although I prefer using ledge trap over ledge guard. Harder to misinterpret

 

[Xyro77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbgxF7EvwlM

 

[Emblem Lord]

>_>

Mad random son.

 

[Xyro77]

>_>

Mad random son.

plz come to texas. I need you

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm gonna assume that Xyro's account got hacked.

 

[Xyro77]

No no. its really me. no joke. test me.

But seriously, come to texas.

 

[Emblem Lord]

And why exactly do you ask this of me?

 

[Xyro77]

Well think!

1. house with me, ill give u free food and drink

2. you will get to attend a huge *** tourney that i host.

3. You get to play sethlon,RoyR,T-rex,mr.3000, TGM(me) and Hylian and Lee Harris

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok. But why did you ask me of all people?

I haven't been to a tourney in months. If you want a good Marth from OOS why not pm NEO? And there are other good players from the EC.

 

[Xyro77]

Ok. But why did you ask me of all people?

I haven't been to a tourney in months. If you want a good Marth from OOS why not pm NEO? And there are other good players from the EC.

ok ok, i apologize. Ill stop.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Errr. You didn't offend me.

I was just curious.

Although...I suppose I can show you poor depraved southern folk what a good Marth looks like.

 

[Xyro77]

You havnt played RoyR

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, uhhhhh, did you not see the before?

 

[Xyro77]

Ok, uhhhhh, did you not see the before?

i saw it but i didnt know what it was. i thought the smilie lost its eye or something but was still happy.

 

[Snakeee]

Hands off my thread!

 

[Bouse]

Your thread?
Hands off it?

 

[3xSwords]

Last 10 posts were mad random. And here I thought EL and Snakeee were going to continue that crazy debate.

 

[Adapt]

I've been waiting for EL to come in here and argue against Marth's rating ever since this topic was made... it only took 2 months lol

It's random because of that strange green lesbian!
This is page 4 btw, you people need to learn to change the default forum settings. 40 replies per page is the way to go.


Also... Poor Falco...

 

[fkacyan]

Rollo sucks.

Just getting that out there, Snakeee. Lelouch has a like 100 / 0 matchup with him.

 

[Snakeee]

Rollo sucks.

Just getting that out there, Snakeee. Lelouch has a like 100 / 0 matchup with him.

Like Rollo has a 100/0 match up with Shirley?
oooOOOO Low blow

 

[fkacyan]

like Rollo Has A 100/0 Match Up With Shirley?
Ooooooo Low Blow

...

>_>

<_<

**** You Sir.

 

[ph00tbag]

They have two distinct meanings.

Although I prefer using ledge trap over ledge guard. Harder to misinterpret

Maybe to you. Everyone else uses ledge and edge interchangeably. A ledgeguard, that is guarding the ledge, is the same as an edgeguard, aka guarding the edge. I realize they are different words, but they are synonyms, like point dodge and spot dodge. You can try to rationalize the fact that there are two words for the same thing all you want, but you'd be fooling yourself.

Ledge trap works fine, although I've always considered both as part of the same overall strategic subset of the game, and so I just use one word describe both, myself.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Are you...really arguing with me about this?

Seriously?

*sigh

This isn't worth my time, but honestly they have two distinct meanings and you really shouldn't be using them interchangeably as they are two different aspects of gameplay.

In one case you are talking about keeping your opponent from reaching the ledge and in another you are talking about making sure your opponent at the very least stays on the ledge because it keeps them at disadvantage.

If they people think they mean the same thing..then..they are wrong. It's that simple.

You can't compare it to using different words to describe spot dodging, since ultimately you are committing the same action. This is not the case with what we are talking about.

 

[3xSwords]

Like Rollo has a 100/0 match up with Shirley?
oooOOOO Low blow

lol

10wtfpwndlulz

 

[ph00tbag]

Are you...really arguing with me about this?

Seriously?

*sigh

This isn't worth my time, but honestly they have two distinct meanings and you really shouldn't be using them interchangeably as they are two different aspects of gameplay.

In one case you are talking about keeping your opponent from reaching the ledge and in another you are talking about making sure your opponent at the very least stays on the ledge because it keeps them at disadvantage.

If they people think they mean the same thing..then..they are wrong. It's that simple.

You can't compare it to using different words to describe spot dodging, since ultimately you are committing the same action. This is not the case with what we are talking about.

You're totally taking the first part of my post and conflating it with the second part. The first part is just to say edgeguarding and ledgeguarding are two words for one thing. Whether you think that is protecting the edge/ledge from being grabbed, or simply protecting your opponent from getting back onto the stage at all is up to you.

The second part of my post is simply an observation as to my own interpretation of the terms.

 

[Kiwikomix]

"Once Gannon closes the distance he can destroy you at close range"

You just got GANNON-BANNED.

 

[Snakeee]

*feels stupid and edits his post

 

[fkacyan]

Eh, if I'm not careful at close range yeah, but good luck GETTING to close range

He was making fun of how you spelled Ganon wrong, dood.

 

[Snakeee]

ROB changed to 7/3 ZSS. And now I await the angry people ^_^

 

[fkacyan]

ROB changed to 7/3 ZSS. And now I await the angry Overswarm^_^

Fixed.

10robs

 

[Bouse]

Yo Snakeee, I'm probably going to merge your thread with Orion's at one point. Mainly because I find it silly to have two threads. Once I'm well underway with the one in the Link forums I'll start merging the two together.

Also, if someone decides to beat me to it...
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189587
Try to add some #$!#ing color and pictures. It's nice when guides are presentable and don't look like term papers. Well... term papers with ****ty grammar.

 

[ph00tbag]

By the by, and something worth noting: Bair slices clean through a fully charged Aura Sphere at around 80%.

The more you know.

 

[Snakeee]

Oh yeah I've done that before, but didn't know it was percentage based. I didn't know if it was just some freak thing I did. Thanks for clearing it up, that's a pretty good thing to know. Not sure if it's enough to change the match up but ZSS can camp B-airs so...

 

[oze6000]

I wouldn't say armor pieces are completely useless against pit. My brother is an extremely annoying pit who knows nothing but camping. Usually at the start I'll air dodge his arrows until i can get above him and throw my armor piece down. Cant be reflected, and if he begins rolling away you tend to be able to pick up the piece and throw it in one of his mid rolls, and hit him before he uses the shield. And down throwing pieces while he is trying to get on the stage (throw just next to the ledge on the stage still) he has a tough time getting back on. Bouncing the armor takes away the ability for him to climb back up, attack back up, or jump back up usually. He has to roll.

Just my take on using pieces against him. =P

 

[ph00tbag]

Oh yeah I've done that before, but didn't know it was percentage based. I didn't know if it was just some freak thing I did. Thanks for clearing it up, that's a pretty good thing to know. Not sure if it's enough to change the match up but ZSS can camp B-airs so...

Well, I don't know if it's a percentage thing, either, but I've done it, and it confused the hell out of me. I just know I've done it with Lucario at 80%, so it goes at least that high.

Another thing I noticed; the shieldpushback of Lucario's down air gets better as his Aura grows. At around 90%, he pushes you out of range to utilt him out of shield. I haven't tested yet to see if ftilt works.

 

[Boolossus]

I disagree with Zamus having a huge advantage over Samus. Samus's Grapple outranges all of ZSS's attacks, and Samus can out-camp her. I've had experience in this matchup. I personally think it's in Samus's favor, but I know that it's certainly not 7/3 against her.

Also, what are your thoughts on playing against Falco?

 

[fkacyan]

I disagree with Zamus having a huge advantage over Samus. Samus's Grapple outranges all of ZSS's attacks, and Samus can out-camp her. I've had experience in this matchup. I personally think it's in Samus's favor, but I know that it's certainly not 7/3 against her.

Also, what are your thoughts on playing against Falco?

All of your projectiles are easy to dodge, ruining your camping. Zair spacing is only useful if we're not already sideBing. Samus's combo game is extremely predictable and easy to avoid. You have no easy-to-land killing moves, leading to ZSS, a light character, living upwards of 120%. You're floaty, making ZSS's off the edge low-percent kill game against you very easy to pull off.

You can think whatever you want about the matchup, but it's not in Samus's favor.

 

[Boolossus]

All of your projectiles are easy to dodge, ruining your camping. Zair spacing is only useful if we're not already sideBing. Samus's combo game is extremely predictable and easy to avoid. You have no easy-to-land killing moves, leading to ZSS, a light character, living upwards of 120%. You're floaty, making ZSS's off the edge low-percent kill game against you very easy to pull off.

You can think whatever you want about the matchup, but it's not in Samus's favor.

Your ridiculous points make me wonder if you've ever played against a good samus. I could take the time to break down why each of those points are invalid, but unless you've played against a good samus before, then there's not a chance that you'd understand.

I don't blame you though, good samus players are hard to come across, they don't swarm the tournament scent like mk and snake.

 

[Adapt]

Can I get some advice on Ness??

I played in a friendly tourney last night and the only character that wrecked my ZSS was Ness. Granted, the guy I was playing was better than me, but after I switched to my secondary (Zelda) I actually gave him a real fight. I didn't have a whole lot of trouble with MK or Snake, or anyone else really, but Ness gave me a headache.
I also lost to a guy who played MK and Marth, but those were pretty close fights and I think I could have won with a bit more practice.


(I got third btw)