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ZSS Match-up Odds (Descriptions added)

Snakeee

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Before I even type the thread in, let me say that I've had a good amount of experience in tournaments, and most of these match-ups are from first-hand tourney sets. It's still pretty early for me to make 100% evaluations on specific match-ups, but I've put a lot of thought into a lot of these, but they are open for discussion. If you believe a match-up to be wrong, then state your reasons for it being so. A lot of my match-ups I know a lot of people are going to disagree with, because for some of them you have to know a really good player with the other character, or you may have to know a specific way to fight them with ZSS.
Also, I made this very honestly without bias. There were many match ups where I thought "hey I can handle this character fine, its ZSS' favor" but realized it really wasn't.




7/3, ZSS Favor

Bowser
Fox
Ike
ROB
Ganondorf
Samus

6/4 ZSS Favor

Zelda
Samus

Donkey Kong
Charizard
Link
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Sonic
Peach
Mr. Game & Watch

5/5 Even

Marth
Metaknight
Dedede
Toon Link
Lucas
Ness
Pikachu
Ivysaur

Mario
Wolf
Olimar
Wario
Kirby
Yoshi
ZSS...>_>


6/4 Opponent

Snake
Diddy Kong
Sheik
Squirtle
Luigi
Lucario
Pit

7/3 Opponent


Falco



Descriptions

I'm going to eventually have descriptions for each character, but for now I'll start with the ones I think will be the most controversial.

Ice Climbers - They can chain grab you to oblivion. One grab could mean the loss of a stock as they can even take you from one side of the stage to the other and spike you. So, the answer is to space forward Bs and Paralyzer shots until you create an opening. Once she does, she can break them apart quite easily and her speed can overpower them. D smash can hit both climbers at once, and with proper spacing she can't get shield grabbed out of it. Her aerial game is good enough to hit both of them separately, and she can gimp Nana really well.

Ganondorf

This is definitely ZSS' favor, but not by as much as you might think. At long range you have the advantage and because he's so slow, it's easy to create an opening. However, Once Gannon closes the distance he can destroy you at close range, so he is pretty dangerous. He can kill you at ridiculously low damages.


Snake

ZSS can outcamp Snake a LITTLE, and with precision she can win. However, Snake can punish any mistakes well. The biggest problem is at close range. It's very hard for ZSS to punish F-tilt spamming (as it is with most characters -_-). Her forward B obviously out-ranges his attacks, and paralyzer shots can break his dash attack cancelled up smash. Once he's in the air, ZSS has the advantage, but even here if he beats the timing on aerials his priority destroys hers and an upwards KO attempt could backfire horribly. It's hard for her Up-B to break his aerials as well. Up-Smash is probably the safest thing to do, and the best bet at lower percentages here. On the other hand, ZSS can do a lot to Snake's recovery, as ZSS has options to spike him (if he's low enough), or forward B him while he's on the cypher.

Fox

I figure people will think that this match up is just **** for ZSS, because she can basically 0-death him with a D-smash chain....well, to start that chain is pretty problematic. Fox is one of the hardest characters to hit with this move, and if you make it your mission to hit him with it, you may take so many hits by him, that you'll be at high percentages before you even get one. The better Fox players are becoming keen to this, and they are extra careful not to get hit by it. This doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it though...
Edit: Fox is hard to hit with D smash, but I got way way way carried away with that. All you need is ONE and his stock is gone. I don't know what I was thinking before.

Sheik

Sheik beats you at close range combat, has a much quicker projectile, and can combo you like crazy with her F-tilt. ZSS can still combo her pretty well though, and can kill earlier than Sheik can. However, if the opponent switches to Zelda, then that may make it easier to get the kill. (I know that doesn't exactly have to do with the match up since it involves the transformation, but its worth mentioning anyway)

R.O.B.

His priority and range is a problem, but ZSS can close the gap on him without too much trouble. A big advantage is that he is a rather big and slow target. ZSS can juggle him well, and gimp his recovery with ease. Basically if ZSS keeps on the offense yet with caution, it is her favor.

Olimar

Olimar is both hard to hit, and hard to combo. He is small, and outspaces you in many aspects. Your Forward B will barely outrange him, but using it can backfire against him and once he is past that tiny boundary you're basically in his grab range and down smash. He can also out-camp you his Pikmin latch. It's easy to get them off, but it pretty much forces you to approach, which you're going to have trouble doing. An advantage for ZSS is that her recovery is far better than his, and she can edgehog him nicely.
Edit: You can actually space a bit further than Olimar can by using Forward B properly, which makes a big difference.

Lucario

This match up isn't quite as hard as I used to believe. He is hard to approach, as his projectile beats yours when charged a bit. Even when you get close, his priority destroys yours. ZSS' main options are to carefully use aerials out of shield such as up air when his d-air hits the shield. It requires ZSS to properly space herself and roll away at the right times in order to fight this match up.

Falcon

He is better than we give credit for, at least in this match up. His speeds' a little better than yours so you it's not that hard for him to close the gap on ZSS. She still can camp him a bit, has a projectile while he doesn't, and the speed of her attacks and priority mostly beats his.

Ike

Strongly ZSS' advantage, but if you've played a really good Ike player, he can be hard to deal with sometimes. You really have to camp him a lot when you can. ZSS can't really get through his jabs, and he can kill her at low percentages. She can also edge guard him very well with a forward B at the top of his Up B. He really can't do much if she keeps retreating forward B's and paralyzer shots.

Wolf

You can D smash chain him.....but it's near impossible to even D smash him once if he's good, and then if you mess up that one hit it's all for nothing. It's like I said with Fox, but much worse. You do NOT want to get in that space where you can D smash him anyway. He can F smash you or simply grab you before you get out that D smash, and if he expects it you'll be in more trouble.
Edit: It's even harder to hit him than Fox, but it's still a big deal that I believe you can chain him from 0% to around 80%.

TL

He really only destroys ZSS if you give him the space to do so. I keep thinking that it should be his favor for a few reasons, but it seems that if you play this match up intelligently, the favor may even tip to ZSS (though I think it's around even). When ZSS closes the gap on TL, there isn't much he can do to punish her really.While she has him in the air, she can actually combo him decently. Her Up B usually even pulls him down through his D-air. On a side note, I used to think that ZSS' Up B had a lot of priority because of this, but it doesn't really. The reason is probably that it hits TL and Link's side or their head.

Pit

Pit forced you to make the approach with his arrows. The arrows aren't too hard to avoid, I usually dash, powershield, dash, etc. But, of course you'll get hit by at least a few throughout a battle and the main thing is forcing you to approach. He can punish an approaching ZSS because his priority mostly beats yours, and his attack speed is comparable to hers. His shield move also makes your armor parts pretty useless. The best I've gotten out of that is the same I can do to spacies, forward B them while they're trying to reflect the parts. His KOing ability isn't too great, yet he can still often kill you before you can kill him.

Luigi

His priority messes you up a lot. He can even match the priority of your armor parts with his aerials!... Ithink that's a bit much. His projectille is faster than yours which makes it a nuisance, though I haven't had them camp it much on me. He seems to combo ZSS quite well, and can kill earlier than she can. His down B is quick and clears the gap between him and ZSS pretty easily. Also, if you miss a grab you are getting Up-Bed (with fire).

Mr. Game & Watch

G&W can break through your defenses too easily, and this is a major problem. He can through your Forward B spacing quite easily which is the main option at a distance especially since he can bucket your Paralyzer shots.
So once he closes the gap you are pretty likely to get hit. You're going to have to shield camp a lot when he gets in close and go for a power shield if possible. G&W will eat ZSS' shield quickly if you don't find a way out.
You even have to watch out for him bucketing your D-smash (which will cause the strongest move in the game), but this is a lot harder for him to do.

Sonic

This match up requires great spacing and timing. Obviously Sonic can close the distance quickly with his speed. However, he doesn't really have a solid approach on ZSS. ZSS can use paralyzer shots to break up any of Sonic's B moves, and then rush in and counterattack if close enough. Not only that, but if there's not enough time to do that, she can almost always shield his B moves, and up air or back air out of shield after and hit him. On the other hand, it's hard for a ZSS player to space properly against Sonic, because you have to stay back pretty far for him to not be able to reach ZSS. However, if the ZSS player knows the match up it becomes her favor because Sonic can be punished when fought against properly. Another problem for ZSS is that Sonic's D-air can beat your Up-B, and Up Smash unless it's timed absolutely perfectly.

Metaknight + Tips

I'll give extra attention to this one because it is one of my favorite match ups and I have a lot of experience playing top Metaknight players.

ZSS can camp Metaknight and keep him at bay well. Retreating forward B's and paralyzer shots will do the trick for that. One thing to look out for, however is his tornado. This will stop both of your approaches, so whenever he does this I try to run to the other side of the stage and shield whatever is left of the attack. Metas often try to land right next to you and down smash after this, so I immediently short hop out of my shield after the tornado and B-air them after their D-smash comes out. If the tornado is close to the ground, ZSS can grab him out of it or down smash him. However, the better Metaknight players seem to come from above with it.

A MAJOR advantage that ZSS has on Metaknight is the fact that she can hit and even spike Meta out of his shuttle loop (Up-B). This removes one of his most broken attacks, and will help you big time. Most decent Metas will attempt to backwards shuttle loop as an edgeguard off the stage. It is possible to down B attack and spike him during it if you time it just right. Even if it doesn't spike, usually you will trade hits. When this happens most of the time ZSS gets sent towards the stage while Meta gets sent further away from it. So, if anyone is going to die from the clash, it's Metaknight.

ZSS can actually edgeguard Meta better than he can edgeguard her, especially with his Up-B taken away. I tend to be very aggressive with off the stage edgeguarding in general, while I hardly see any other ZSS mains do this. I use forward B a lot for this, and I even hit people with it while they're in the hourglass. This works against most characters including Metaknight.

When Metaknight recovers to the stage with his Shuttle loop and glide attack I do the following. Usually he'll Up-B from under the stage so I've learned to stay away from trying to D-Smash - B-air stage spike him like that.
Instead I'll shield when I expect the Up-B, then when he gets close with his glide (and he's going to glide attack)I usually short hop backwards and forward B him.

Metknights D-Smash out of their shield a lot, especially when you're behind them at higher percentages. Try to anticipate these and counterattack. What I normally do is shield the D-Smash and short hop out of shield and go for a B-air on the other side of him.

ZSS' Down B is perfect for getting out of Meta's combos in general. I don't mean to do the attack part, just the inital down B which will get rid of hitstun quickly, give you invincibility, and give you space to break out. An evasive ZSS is very hard for Metaknight to both combo and KO.


Jigglypuff

ZSS completely outranges her, has better kill power, and can camp her. The main thing that Jigglypuff has against ZSS is that she is good at evading ZSS' attacks, and can still make a decent approach.





 

DarkShadowRage

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I'm rather confused...what do the numbers mean?
 

Snakeee

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I'm rather confused...what do the numbers mean?
Well it's the ratio of games a character would win out of 10 assuming both players are at a high level.
So, say for instance the match up with DDD, it's 6/4 ZSS favor. The ZSS player would win 6 games out of 10 in general. That doesn't mean that they will literally win 6 games every 10 games. It's like a probability thing...eh I'm terrible at explaining this lol

Edit: Cake, I was thinking about that and maybe we could combine threads. For now though it's separate because this is a topic to list all of ZSS's match ups and his is for explaining how to fight specific match-ups. Basically, this is the more technical side saying who is better in the match-up (and soon why).
 

Bouse

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And that's why I added it to the resource center. Snakeee is proposing probability based on set odds and advantages. Orion's describes tactics to manipulate those advantages. It's Green and Snow Peas, but two different types of delicious peas.
 

M@v

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The DDD matchup is dead on. I played a DDD today. Hes was OK with DDD, but more importantly, I noticed how Zamus has much more priority. For example, zamus's up b can yank DDD out of his UpB. Since hes so big, DDD can easily get stuck in down smash chain, or even 2 or 3 upb attacks in a row.
 

oze6000

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The thing i see would be moving Ganon up to 7/3
Its hard to get hurt by him, his slow attacks and his heavyness makes him really easy to combo, mostly in the air. All of his attacks are slow enough to dodge that i rarely get over 30% in the first kill. I guess he can get lucky and land an attack on you which will send you flying, but it seems hard for him to be able to set up for it because Zamus has so many options on how to stay in the air or move quickly (Down B comes to mind)
He is just too easy to punish for his slow start up time on his attacks.

And ZSS overB>Ganon overB. =D
 

Adapt

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I find a few of the percentages kinda odd, but I will wait till you give reasons why before I bring them up
 

Orichalcum

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I played a few Sheiks and i think they would fit into neutral more than into opponent. Might be because they arent that good with the char (cant judge it, but they were good players overall). Havent had any significant problems with a sheik matchup.
 

Adapt

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Its interesting to compare this to the matchup chart in tactical discussion




There's agreement for a number of things, but not all... for example

Rob is listed as our disadvantage same with Snake.

Peach is listed to our advantage, same with Jiggs

I happen to agree with Snake and Peach of actually. Peach can't autofloat towards us, and we can normally keep her at a range. Also her kill moves are kinda limited, most of them kill above her (somewhere we avoid as much as possible)

Snake just kills too **** early and his range is better than average. He can be quite hard to avoid even though we are more agile

I didn't worry about the contested/neutral matches
 

Bouse

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You can lock a Snake's projectiles down with Side B. You can evade his charge with Down B. You can stun shot, and down smash him out of charges easily. If you approach him properly you win in the air as well. If you have crappy reaction time, just drink Red Bull before you play Brawl it'll help with those split second decisions. Also it can help cause seizures, heart attacks, and necrotic bowl.
 

DarkShadowRage

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Also to note on the ice climbers, ZSS's D-Smash will deflect the ice blocks away from you back towards them.
 

Bouse

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To describe it better:
Zero Suit=Light and Easy KO.
Olimar=Probably one of the best characters at building up damage.
 

ph00tbag

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Personally I'm not so sure about the Olimar advantage either. He has a lot of good points, yes, but ZSS is also fairly good at racking up damage and is worlds better off the stage than Olimar is. I'm not saying ZSS has the advantage, but I'm also interested in seeing Snakeee's reasoning, if it goes beyond just "OMG Latch kills meh!"
 

oze6000

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I'll trust that you're right with Ganon, I probably just haven't fought many good ones and you'll know ZSS stuff better than me.

Good stuff so far, looking forward to it getting finished. =D
Hopefully you'll do diddy soon, i can beat my friend who uses him but it'll be interesting to see what you have to say about it.

I want to see how to take care of a spamming pit though.
 

fkacyan

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Personally I'm not so sure about the Olimar advantage either. He has a lot of good points, yes, but ZSS is also fairly good at racking up damage and is worlds better off the stage than Olimar is. I'm not saying ZSS has the advantage, but I'm also interested in seeing Snakeee's reasoning, if it goes beyond just "OMG Latch kills meh!"
There is no way to punish a latch-spamming Olimar. If you try, he will sheildgrab you or downsmash away and laugh. He never has to approach. If he has to wait til 400% and kill you by side-Bing a purple Pikmin, he will. He has nothing to lose. Pikmin are expendable, and there's no difference between a leaf, bud, or flower.

As for Rob... I don't see how Zamus has an advantage here. I play one of the better ROBs here (Bajisci, who I know you play often too, Snakeee), and I'd say the matchup is more even than in our advantage. He can camp, and ZSS can't. And approaching ROB is not fun.

Otherwise, I agree with most of these matchups. Excellent work.

EDIT: I'd rename the thread 'ZSS Matchup Odds' to avoid clashing with the other thread.
 

DanGR

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There is no way to punish a latch-spamming Olimar. If you try, he will sheildgrab you or downsmash away and laugh. He never has to approach. If he has to wait til 400% and kill you by side-Bing a purple Pikmin, he will. He has nothing to lose. Pikmin are expendable, and there's no difference between a leaf, bud, or flower.
Purples have a set knockback. Other than that, I agree.
 

Crystanium

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Personally I'm not so sure about the Olimar advantage either. He has a lot of good points, yes, but ZSS is also fairly good at racking up damage and is worlds better off the stage than Olimar is. I'm not saying ZSS has the advantage, but I'm also interested in seeing Snakeee's reasoning, if it goes beyond just "OMG Latch kills meh!"
Well, Olimar does have the infamous Pikmin Throw, which means that in order to get the Pikmin off, there are only two options. 1. Find a way to get the Pikmin off easily. 2. Hope that Olimar uses his Pikmin Order to call back his Pikmin. Even so, Olimar has some advantage at his disposal. He can use Pikmin Order to produce a magic armor, which can be used with our without the Pikmin. It can also be performed in the air. So, while you would deal damage, Olimar wouldn't be flying anywhere.

Anyway, I fought my friend today. He played as Zero Suit Samus, while I played as Samus. I had two lives left, and he lost. Match-up lists are good to tell how each character has the advantage. I wouldn't say that it confirms winning chances. The way to insure a correct match-up list if you wish to add more than just saying, "X has the advantage over Y," I'd suggest producing metagames and see how other characters use their metagames.
 

ph00tbag

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There is no way to punish a latch-spamming Olimar. If you try, he will sheildgrab you or downsmash away and laugh. He never has to approach. If he has to wait til 400% and kill you by side-Bing a purple Pikmin, he will. He has nothing to lose. Pikmin are expendable, and there's no difference between a leaf, bud, or flower.
So pressure him. You can pressure him from a distance fairly easily. You'll have to take damage, but them's the breaks with Olimar. It doesn't make ZSS special. Keep him from spitting out Pikmen. Only purple ones can really put a damper on your approach. You're falling into his trap without even having to play him.

Do you know why Olimar throws his Pikmin at you? To get you to close the gap as fast as possible without really thinking about spacing, so that he can punish you for acting irrationally. Don't fall for it, either in theory or in practice. Keep your cool, and you realize that his Pikmin are no different from Paralyzer. Yes, it's neat if they connect, but it's even better if they make your opponent act stupid. This is why the "ONOES latchez!" argument doesn't hold water, because the use of Pikmin throw as an opening strategy is no different in theory from any other projectile in the game.

Give me some real data. It's 1:27 AM for me atm, so I can't check the range of Olimar's Fsmash and ZSS' Plasma Whip, but it'll really depend on that, because the latter outranges all of Olimar's other non-special moves. What is Olimar's combo potential against ZSS? How good is he at gimping her? There is such a vast amount of information more that goes into a match-up than just "ZOMG LATCHSPAM!!!"
 

napZzz

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can we talk more in depth on the snake match up? I've never come across a zamus player and I'd like to hear more about why you think she can counter snake. Trying to imagine it I cant see her really getting past his explosives very well. And it seems as though zamus would be kinda predictable with the forward b if you get up close so snake can dodge and counter with a tilt...but correct me if you feel necessary and tell me the match from the zamus player perspective.
 

Crystanium

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There is such a vast amount of information more that goes into a match-up than just "ZOMG LATCHSPAM!!!"
I agree. Not that I've ever played as Zero Suit Samus against Olimar, but tonight I played as Mario and was laying a smackdown on my brother when he was playing as Olimar. Sure, he didn't do the "latch spam," but when I decided to see who was the worst of characters in Brawl, I played as Olimar, and my brother played as the Ice Climbers. I spammed, but my brother still whooped me. When you find a way to overcome the "latch spam," Olimar isn't as difficult.
 

Crystanium

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can we talk more in depth on the snake match up? I've never come across a zamus player and I'd like to hear more about why you think she can counter snake. Trying to imagine it I cant see her really getting past his explosives very well. And it seems as though zamus would be kinda predictable with the forward b if you get up close so snake can dodge and counter with a tilt...but correct me if you feel necessary and tell me the match from the zamus player perspective.
Zero Suit Samus' (ZSS hereafter) Plasma Whip (Forward+B) gives her distance. Of course, I can't say that all ZSS players use the Plasma Whip much of the time. The cool down is kind of slow, but not too slow. I'd suggest you look for some videos. Theoretical speech isn't going to prove anything. It's only beneficial to have foreknowledge of what can occur.
 

oze6000

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Olimar is also cake to ledge hog. You run off the stage with him, latch onto the stage from long range, and hang there. He has two choices, UpB to try and grab onto the stage, which won't work because the whip is taking it up, or try to hit you with his UpB or another attack, where you would just retract up the whip and use your invincible frames to finish off the hog.

As for snake, Zamus players won't always go for the side B, I'll use my dash attack to get into a combo. And every grenade you throw can be glide tossed back at you. Snake's explosives aren't too hard to get around, Zamus' Dair goes through mortars right? And it only take a roll to bypass a nikita and punish you for it. I already covered the grenades. It'll come down to who is the smartest player to determine who gets hit by the land mine and if the C4 is wasted or not.
 

DeliciousCake

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Olimar is also cake to ledge hog. You run off the stage with him, latch onto the stage from long range, and hang there. He has two choices, UpB to try and grab onto the stage, which won't work because the whip is taking it up, or try to hit you with his UpB or another attack, where you would just retract up the whip and use your invincible frames to finish off the hog.

As for snake, Zamus players won't always go for the side B, I'll use my dash attack to get into a combo. And every grenade you throw can be glide tossed back at you. Snake's explosives aren't too hard to get around, Zamus' Dair goes through mortars right? And it only take a roll to bypass a nikita and punish you for it. I already covered the grenades. It'll come down to who is the smartest player to determine who gets hit by the land mine and if the C4 is wasted or not.
Retracting your whip only gives you invincibility frames once you hit the ledge, nowhere in between, just for the record. Any good Snake player will cook their nades, so attempting to throw them back isn't as easy as you're making it sound. Dair-ing through mortars may sound good, but actually finding an appropriate time to use it without getting punished is barely feasible. Nikita's are pretty useless except for edge-guarding. Land mines and C4 are not "killing moves," but merely a way for Snake to easily predict where you're going next since you need to bypass these.
 

Snakeee

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Hmm, I left this topic for a day and I missed all this talk lol. Well there's quite a bit of intelligent discussion going around so I'm happy. I'll add more descriptions soon.
 

ph00tbag

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Just stopping in to say that Plasma Whip outranges Olimar's Fsmash, so Zamus does have an effective approach option. Just pressure him from out of range with Plasma Whip and see what he does, then react accordingly.

Again, I'm not saying Zamus has an advantage over Olimar, I'm just saying his advantage may be overstated. I await Snakeee's input on the matter.
 

oze6000

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Retracting your whip only gives you invincibility frames once you hit the ledge, nowhere in between, just for the record. Any good Snake player will cook their nades, so attempting to throw them back isn't as easy as you're making it sound. Dair-ing through mortars may sound good, but actually finding an appropriate time to use it without getting punished is barely feasible. Nikita's are pretty useless except for edge-guarding. Land mines and C4 are not "killing moves," but merely a way for Snake to easily predict where you're going next since you need to bypass these.
I was more talking about using the ledge invincibility, retracting is so quick that it wouldn't make a huge affect. I suppose if they can hit you with a pikmin then try to recover it would be a problem, but olimar still has a tough time recovering if you get him far enough away.

For the snake part yeah primed grenades are harder to deal with but can be avoided. And Dairing is easily punished, but it isn't useless either. There are a lot of times when you can't use it against mortars, mostly at stages like battle field where you can't really hit the ground without a platform stopping you. But when a land mine is down Snake has to watch his step too, and usually he won't blast C4 with him in the radius. I don't know who has the better odds, probably snake, but i'm just saying how you can get around snake's explosives, which is what -NaPPy was after.
 

Snakeee

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Just stopping in to say that Plasma Whip outranges Olimar's Fsmash, so Zamus does have an effective approach option. Just pressure him from out of range with Plasma Whip and see what he does, then react accordingly.

Again, I'm not saying Zamus has an advantage over Olimar, I'm just saying his advantage may be overstated. I await Snakeee's input on the matter.
Thanks, but I knew that the plasma whip had more range. I added a small description for Olimar and R.O.B. And I don't think its a big advantage, but a bit in Olimar's favor.

Thiocyanide, approaching R.O.B really isn't that hard. I can usually predict when he's going to shoot a laser or um...that disc (sorry I'm bad with other characters' terminology). But even if you get hit by them he can only hit you once or twice before you get over there, and just be careful once you get through. His priority is a hassle, but once you get a hit in you can combo the crap out of him. And that's cool that you play Bajisci, why don't you ask him what he thinks of the match up?
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
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A note on ROB: Both gyro and laser are fairly difficult to spam. There can only be one of the former on the stage at any time, so if you dodge it, it could even land on the ground and put ROB out of a projectile. The laser itself is somewhat predictable and needs to recharge. Once he's out of a gyro and a laser, all he really has is Dsmash, and ZSS has range on that with a lot of moves. Furthermore, he's a big, slow target whom you can combo very easily. ZSS doesn't have a whole lot of trouble against him.
 

Adapt

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Look in the ROB video thread for their video's against ZSS. Sparrow vs SDM is how you deal with ROB :)
 

fkacyan

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Mar 15, 2008
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Heh, Baji said that he thinks the matchup is more in ROB's favor, which I agree with. I think it's something like 60-40 ROB, or maybe 55-45 ROB at best.

But that's just our opinion, and we're only one ROB and one ZSS. I'd ask OS, HuGs, and a few other ROBs and ZSSs what they think.
 

Snakeee

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Heh, Baji said that he thinks the matchup is more in ROB's favor, which I agree with. I think it's something like 60-40 ROB, or maybe 55-45 ROB at best.

But that's just our opinion, and we're only one ROB and one ZSS. I'd ask OS, HuGs, and a few other ROBs and ZSSs what they think.
I've played a few ROB players that I'd consider to be very good, and this is what I've come up with after playing them. I try to be as non-biased as possible so, whether I beat them or not I think the battles have been a bit in my favor.

Anyway, remember this is definitely not 100% the game is pretty new and these match-ups are what I've come up with through tourney experience. I'm open to anything, so when you guys disagree with a match up just give me reasons why.
 

fkacyan

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Also, I'd figure I'd add, Falco has an extremely good matchup vs ZSS. It's definitely closer to 70-30. There's not much that we can do vs a shorthopped double laser.
 

Snakeee

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Also, I'd figure I'd add, Falco has an extremely good matchup vs ZSS. It's definitely closer to 70-30. There's not much that we can do vs a shorthopped double laser.
One word. Crawl. Heh, seriously it works. You have to be smart with it though. Predict when he's going to start laser spamming, and start crawling. Be real careful getting close with the crawl because he'll usually try to hit you with a smash or D-air. You can also d-tilt and crawl out of it again. It still is a pain though because the lasers force you to play like this, and makes you unable to just forward B him or get in a paralyzer shot.
 

smaci92

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Thanks for making this thread! perfect...metaknight is so annoying to fight: all his moves have barely any lag and he can even do like 2 airials in one short hop. and practically every one of his moves out prioritizes ZSS's
 
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