ZSS General Discussion

[solecalibur]

I just got back from a tourny, and i hate f***ing falcos. they kill ZSS and they beat my snake. i did ok, i got decently far placing 7th, which is not that great considering it was a relativaly small tourny. thier was freaking falcos everywhere though. i guess i should get used to it. i can still hear his voice in my head saying hands of my bread. im seriously just about to secondary pika just **** falco with cg. it would be fun. heheheee

learn the marth & metaknight MU with pikachu as the falco probly pockets them
Falco is kind of an annoying character once they know the MU lol

 

[Luxor]

Don't assume Pika autorapes Falco. Most Pikas and Falcos alike agree that it's no worse than 60:40 Pika's favor, and likely better. If Pika doesn't get the CG it's like 60:40 Falco's favor, though, so beware.

 

[solecalibur]

Don't assume Pika autorapes Falco. Most Pikas and Falcos alike agree that it's no worse than 60:40 Pika's favor, and likely better. If Pika doesn't get the CG it's like 60:40 Falco's favor, though, so beware.

Don't assume Pika autorapes Falco. Most Pikas and Falcos alike agree that it's no worse than 60:40 Pika's favor, and likely better. If Pika doesn't get the CG it's like 60:40 Falco's favor, though, so beware.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284308
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259481

Even larry is even saying its 65/35 ... just sayin

Pikachu doesn't have many tools after the CG, im aware you have to know the cg and have half a brain but falco gets hard countered by pika

Spoiler

just wasted 10 seconds of your time

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I believe ZSS has buffered standing and small-step chain grabs on heavies.


0-69% standing


0-24% standing, then 0-70%ish smallstep (buffer walk and grab)


0-24% standing, then 0-70%ish smallstep (buffer walk and grab)

Can anyone confirm? Or test before I go O_O

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284308
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259481

Even larry is even saying its 65/35 ... just sayin

Pikachu doesn't have many tools after the CG, im aware you have to know the cg and have half a brain but falco gets hard countered by pika

Spoiler

just wasted 10 seconds of your time

incorrect. falco only gets countered by pika when he doesnt know how to play the matchup right. i.e. pika doesnt counter falco.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Going to update the match-ups in the guide soon.
These are not based mostly on my personal opinion, but on the opinions of good players averaged with the community at large:

MK: 5/5
Snake: 4/6
Diddy: 5/5
Falco: 3/7... 4/6... probably somewhere between depending on stage... care to talk about this one in our next discussion?
ICs: 4/6
Marth: 5/5
Wario: 5/5

Dedede: 7/3
Pikachu: 4/6
Olimar: 5/5
Lucario: 5/5
GaW: 6/4

Pit: 5/5
Toon Link: 6/4
Zero Suit Samus: 10/0
Kirby: 7/3
ROB: 7/3

DK: 7/3
Peach: 5/5
Fox: 4/6
Luigi: 6/4
Wolf: 4/6

Sheik: 4/6...5/5... I dunno, it's been a while since we talked about this. Last time, everyone thought it was even, some though tit was Sheik's advantage. Anyone care to comment?
Pokemon Trainer: 6/4
Squirtle: 4/6
Charizard: 6/4
Ivysaur: 7/3
Sonic: 6/4
Ness: 6/4
Bowser: 8/2

Lucas: 6/4
Ike: 6/4
Yoshi: 6/4
Mario: 5/5
Captain Falcon: 7/3
Jigglypuff: 7/3 (this is according to the recent jiggs discussion, we have like never discussed jigglypuff)
Samus: 5/5

Zelda: 6/4
Link: 6/4
Ganon: 7/3

Comments? Complaints? Changes?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ic's is 6/4 AT LEAST, they lose worse to us than GaW imo
we not using 5's so snake is ok i guess
pika is 55:45 for pikachu but more towards even so 5/5
TL is 5/5 imo but i suck at that mu
ROB is 6/4 imo
Wolf is 6/4 for us, ive seen that mu a lot in the form of Mr R vs T (best wolf in eu) or me vs T
and fox is 55:45 his advantage but more towards even than 6/4 imo, if we stay airborne its a really managable mu
luigi is 5/5
sheik 5/5 imo its really even but we have to be really really really careful, it requires a lot of concentration
squirtle is 5/5 if infinite is allowed
we beat sonic like 7/3
jiggs is 8/2
link 5/5

 

[da K.I.D.]

we beat sonic like 7/3

whoa whoa whoa here.

i disagree, sonic goes very even with ZSS

 

[Flayl]

Bowser: 8/2

Are you saying Snakeee lost an 8/2 matchup?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Are you saying Snakeee lost an 8/2 matchup?

Yes. It's easy to lose any match-up when you don't know it. Bowser is arguably ZSS' easiest match-up. ZSS players have to memorize a lot of specific tiny things about match-ups to be successful and the more you know about Bowser the more fail it is.

ZSS has a standing CG on bowser to 70%, and that's just for starters.

whoa whoa whoa here.

i disagree, sonic goes very even with ZSS

Personally I agree with this, although it is really easy for ZSS to avoid Sonic's kill moves.

 

[Flayl]

Umm, I'd say Snakeee knows the matchup just as well as you do then.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Umm, I'd say Snakeee knows the matchup just as well as you do then.

I will MM your Bowser. Awful character, frankly, and there's no way it's any worse than "terrible."

 

[da K.I.D.]

aight, lets be honest here.

NOBODY knows the bowser matchup.

Bowser for all I know probably gets beat 7:3 by more than half the cast. But thats not going to stop bowser from winning matches here and there. since most people still havent learned to not get hit by the falling side bs yet...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

aight, lets be honest here.

NOBODY knows the bowser matchup.

Bowser for all I know probably gets beat 7:3 by more than half the cast. But thats not going to stop bowser from winning matches here and there. since most people still havent learned to not get hit by the falling side bs yet...

This. The first time I ever played a good Ganondorf I got wrecked for like 20 minutes until I figured out the match-up and then 3-stocked him like 5 times. Match-up knowledge is everything, especially vs. gimmicky characters like Bowser.

 

[Flayl]

Fly me to wherever you are or you come to Lisbon and I'll do it. Just don't pretend you actually know the matchup.

 

[Zero]

Bowser is arguably ZSS' easiest match-up..

TBH I'm now convinced it's Ganon. Ganon can do nothing. Absolutely nothing.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

ZSS has a standing CG on bowser to 70%, and that's just for starters.

With what throw? Fthrow?

 

[Nefarious B]

IC's 5/5. Watching Nick's combo vid again made me realize all over again how well we can separate and kill nana.

Luigi 7/3. His weakness stop him from heavily punishing our weaknesses, and our strengths are really hard for him to deal with.

Charizard 7/3. He's very shield grabbable, which means a lot when it's basically auto combos from dthrow and fthrow CG **** into a GR fair (i think). He's similar to DK I think, with less killing ability but better recovery.

Wolf 5/5. His blaster is not good for camping us, we can sheild grab it if we're in range even on a normal shield. He's better off trying to zone us. You learn the matchup and you'll realize he has just as much if not more trouble killing than we do.

Samus 6/4. Fun matchup IMO. I don't think Samus' camping is that good, and we don't die til very late unless you fall for something dumb. Juggles are easy, and Samus' recovery is very damagable even if gimping is kinda hard.

 

[Zero]

I agree with Nef that IC is even at worst for us.

I'm still not convinced that Fox is a disadvantage for us.

As I said, Ganon is quite possibly our easiest matchup, in my experience.

Jigglypuff is definitely strongly in our favour.

I'm pretty content with the rest of your opinions.

@D-Torr: ZSS fthrow is the only throw she can regrab off.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

@D-Torr: ZSS fthrow is the only throw she can regrab off.

Just wondering. I know of her Fthrow CG with certiain characters. I just wanted to make sure. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Flayl]

With what throw? Fthrow?

So I actually tested this and it's so easy to escape to the point where I don't know why anybody would take anything SFP says seriously.

For entertainment value I'm not going to say how Bowser escapes it just to find out how much time it takes for SFP to figure it out.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So I actually tested this and it's so easy to escape to the point where I don't know why anybody would take anything SFP says seriously.

For entertainment value I'm not going to say how Bowser escapes it just to find out how much time it takes for SFP to figure it out.

Yes I just tested it this morning and he can jump out after a certain percent, something early like 20s, I'm not sure. The guy I was testing this with was my room mate and doesn't know the game very well, I just said "here, take this control and hit this combination of buttons." It wasn't a grand announcement or anything.

By the way, this is not tactical discussion where it's cool to make fun of me. A lot high-level tricks and nuances for ZSS have spawned here based on my ramblings (which are yes sometimes incorrect). For everything I get wrong, I get something right. The "breast attack" (forward bair) was something Nick Riddle actually was able ot make use of in his match at MLG. According to Dazwa, he yelled "thank you SFP" into the crowd. I also found dash attack locking and have done a lot of research on how certain moves interact with other moves, etc.

When you laugh at me for screwing something up, you just look stupid to the regular posters here because they know better.

There's a reason I posted asking other people to test it out and check my work before I got too excited. You can also do that chaingrab by just buffering a dash grab, as usual, and Bowser still sucks. So...

 

[Flayl]

There's an even easier way. One that pretty much allows Bowser to FSmash ZSS if he wants to.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

There's an even easier way. One that pretty much allows Bowser to FSmash ZSS if he wants to.

Actually, if you jump and air dodge I think you can land and fsmash lol.

 

[Zero]

(which are yes sometimes incorrect). For everything I get wrong, I get something right. The "breast attack" (forward bair) was something Nick Riddle actually was able ot make use of in his match at MLG.

holy **** lol, eat my own words

 

[Dajayman]

Where can I find some good ZSS ecchi/hentai?

 

[PepsiMista]

When you laugh at me for screwing something up, you just look stupid to the regular posters here because they know better.

hejustgote-slapped.jpg

 

[Zero]

Where can I find some good ZSS ecchi/hentai?

gelbooru/danbooro

type samus_aran

 

[swordsaint]

the **** andrew?

 

[Zero]

gelbooru is god

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Fakku or lu.scio.us?

 

[Zero]

So guys..

I want to bring back the ZSS Community Combo Video Project back. Who's in?

 

[NickRiddle]

So guys..

I want to bring back the ZSS Community Combo Video Project back. Who's in?

I could give footage.
I think I sometimes do things that vaguely resemble combos.
Not editing though. I suck at that.
And my music taste is Japanese crap, so that's probably out.

 

[Zero]

Well if enough people like the idea, I'll start a thread with more comprehensive stuff.

and we'll take stuff out of your comobo video, especially the last clip :D

I can edit pretty well and I have tons of spare time, so yeahyeah.

 

[NickRiddle]

Well if enough people like the idea, I'll start a thread with more comprehensive stuff.

and we'll take stuff out of your comobo video, especially the last clip :D

I can edit pretty well and I have tons of spare time, so yeahyeah.

Nah man, it's k. I'll just do new stuff.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

I could offer credits music for it. I took the song "Zoot Suit Riot" and replaced "Riot" with "Samus."

I was planning on using it for a combo video but never got around to it...so it's been sitting on my computer for awhile now.

 

[Zero]

You sung it? BEST CREDITS EVER

throw back a bottle o'beeeeer~

 

[Nefarious B]

yeee i'd be down. i should keep getting more footage up that we can use. i have some **** stuff already up against my brother's olimar lool

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't think I can provide clips as I never save replays and my combos are hardly ever to death (which makes it all that more better D: ) but I am quite experienced with editting software to the point that I did tutorials for a site for a while and got up to 30k views lol. Anyways, I bet I can help with editting n stuff :3

 

[Zero]

THE THING I WANT TO GET OUT OF PEOPLE'S HEAD IS

You don't need to have a x-to-death combo to submit a clip

If you have a funky application of ZSS saved in a replay, submit it! It's not about kills as about entertaining people with sexy ZSS stuff.