ZGD: Livin by a thread.

[Kataefi]

We greatly value any input Zelda players have for this reason.

I probably shouldn't have been so snide about the buffs, but I still think they're pretty bad - sorry Thinkaman. All I have to say is thank god for american wiis lol, I played it briefly yesterday.

Here's my take on it:

A lot of characters will now improve in viability because of the lack of chaingrabs, infinites and some radical changes to their characters (those with the most buffs). The former two never hindered Zelda in the first place so she won't improve in this respect.

The latter is something she hasn't really received. She will still be approaching, still getting outcamped, chased off screen to death, gimped, killed whatever... and Dsmash is not exactly the best approacher or best of punishers if they do hit her shield for her to capitalise on that extra knockback (for her it's a good punisher, but that doesn't say much in comparison to the rest of the cast). It can teched if they DI down, and the last hit of nair can be SDId. The buffs are blind in hindsight. Even if Dsmash does get them offstage, Zelda's not much of an edgeguarder to be able to truly capitalise, aside from the odd spike attempt or din's fire... which frankly never works out the way it should lol!

The two buffs have not really affected any of her matchups. Top tiers are still insanely hard (MK is somewhat better, but still tough), lower tiers are now harder to deal with.

Imo right now she's nothing on par with diddy kong. Those below her are overtaking her in terms of being competitive, and those far far above her haven't nerfed enough to make her anymore competitive than what she was before. Characters mildly above her have also received some buffs better than what she received (Luigi, Sonic, Bowser), thus increasing that gap between them and her. It's not that I don't think she's improved (because she has)... I just don't think she's improved relative to the rest of the cast considering she had far different worries from characters who worried about infinites, chaingrabs and the such who don't have to worry anymore because they've all been eliminated.

The stages were fun as hell though... I'm never going in the water ever again lol!

 

[Darkmusician]

SBHMXII
DarkM-3rd of 24
sniperworm-5th of 24

Come to the HSI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1ZQG6mdfmo

 

[sniperworm]

SBHMXII
DarkM-3rd of 24
sniperworm-5th of 24

Come to the HSI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1ZQG6mdfmo

I had my one random Pikachu game in there this last tournament, lol. I think I'll start actually using Pikachu when Sheik inevitable stops listening to me (but next time I'll actually be trying to do something instead of just looking at Pika's tail).

Oh, come to the HSI people...

 

[KayLo!]

I had my one random Pikachu game in there this last tournament, lol. I think I'll start actually using Pikachu when Sheik inevitable stops listening to me (but next time I'll actually be trying to do something instead of just looking at Pika's tail).

<333 Sniperworm. If you use Pikachu, you automatically gain +10 levels of Brawl skill.

SOMEBODY *coughbobbycough* won't use him.

Also, SJKDHLSDH@U19281928ASJOASJ!!!! I've been in debug mode for hours, and aside from a few random things, Zelda is the crappiest, non-infinite-having, non-combo-having character I've ever seen.

Just needed to vent my frustration for a moment. I'm still not done going through my list, but all this Zeldabunz failure is getting to me.

 

[Kataefi]

Everyone... let's talk stickies!!....... fun fun fun

- the matchup thread is outdated, and we've got those new individual matchup threads now linked in here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232732 , which I think is a tad more cohesive than having everything in one massive OP.

- the Q&A thread and all discussion can essentially just be moved to the research thread (providing I change the thread's title to include Q&A). Both threads are aiming for inquisition and curiosity about certain moves, and because the OP of the research is already developed, I think the Q&A one could be de-stickied???

- new guide coming sooooon. What do we make of the older ones?

thoughts on these????



ps... as of an hour ago, I've just become an uncle!

 

[KayLo!]

Congrats, Kataefi!

If the existing matchup "index," so to speak, is updated, I think it can stay as a sticky. Matchups, imo, are important enough to warrant sticky-dom, but I do like the idea of less stickies overall. Either or sounds fine to me.

Q&A thread should stay separate and stickied.

Older guides can go in the directory, and the new one should be stickied.

Those are just my opinions, of course. I think video threads in general can be de-stickied, so I would suggest taking down the Zelda one unless people feel too attached to it. I also think the Friend Finder can be de-stickied, but I don't use it that often, so others might feel differently about that.

 

[sniperworm]

<333 Sniperworm. If you use Pikachu, you automatically gain +10 levels of Brawl skill.

SOMEBODY *coughbobbycough* won't use him.

Also, SJKDHLSDH@U19281928ASJOASJ!!!! I've been in debug mode for hours, and aside from a few random things, Zelda is the crappiest, non-infinite-having, non-combo-having character I've ever seen.

Just needed to vent my frustration for a moment. I'm still not done going through my list, but all this Zeldabunz failure is getting to me.

I've always "used" Pikachu, I just never used Pika in a tournament before since I don't actually practice with Pikachu (I was feeling really depressed and needed to stare at Pika's tail to make me feel better).

Bobby doesn't need his +10 levels of Brawl skill from Pika when MK gives him +25 levels...

Zeldabunz, lol (I don't know why that's so funny to me but it is).

Everyone... let's talk stickies!!....... fun fun fun

- the matchup thread is outdated, and we've got those new individual matchup threads now linked in here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232732 , which I think is a tad more cohesive than having everything in one massive OP.

- the Q&A thread and all discussion can essentially just be moved to the research thread (providing I change the thread's title to include Q&A). Both threads are aiming for inquisition and curiosity about certain moves, and because the OP of the research is already developed, I think the Q&A one could be de-stickied???

- new guide coming sooooon. What do we make of the older ones?

thoughts on these????



ps... as of an hour ago, I've just become an uncle!

STICKIES!!!!!

Anyway, here's my feelings on each thing you mentioned:

Matchup thread - I think it's important to have a stickied, centralized MU thread. However, I personally would rather have that thread contain just the overall chart and links to each specific discussion (with the summary in the discussion rather than in the central thread), because it's a nightmare to navigate through the OP of the current version.

Q&A Thread - It needs to be maintained and remain separate from the research thread. The Q&A thread is supposed to handle a different kind of question than the research thread does.

New Guide - The new guide can have a link to the older ones in it if you feel that the older ones still have merit (so they cover something that the main guide doesn't). However, since that shouldn't be the case, I think the old guides should be destickied and released back into the wild.

Oh, congrats on becoming an Uncle.

 

[Kataefi]

Thanks guys! Feels good!

Okay so the stickies we do have look alright then.

My idea was to de-sticky the matchup thread as, looking back on it, it's very oooold... sniperworm what you have suggested for the OP of the matchup thread is in fact in here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232732 albeit with a bit more information on other important threads.

Is this centralised enough do you reckon? I don't see why we'd need another thread... :/

edit:: and with that I have actually changed the name of the directory thread to include the word matchups so it's all very clear

 

[sniperworm]

My idea was to de-sticky the matchup thread as, looking back on it, it's very oooold... sniperworm what you have suggested for the OP of the matchup thread is in fact in here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232732 albeit with a bit more information on other important threads.

Is this centralised enough do you reckon? I don't see why we'd need another thread... :/

edit:: and with that I have actually changed the name of the directory thread to include the word matchups so it's all very clear

I knew that was in there (you did post a link to it right before). However, there was no mention of matchups in the name before so nobody would know to look there. Having it's own thread does have it's merits though. It'd give people a place to suggest what MUs should be discussed next (assuming we want people's input and we're not just going down the list) instead of having them randomly post it somewhere.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i think im agreeing w/ Snipe on this one

 

[Kataefi]

Minions! Obey!

Spoiler

i'm joking =p

Yes that's fine! I'll have them in both then. I can just copy and paste the format in the link I've posted a million times and put it in the matchup thread also... that way people just won't ever be able to miss them!

The problem is... looking at the matchup thread now... it has a lot of discussion that's a tad old with a lot of wrong information (concerning for new members who want to browse through it)... do people still want this thread.. or shall we start afresh? (as in de-sticky the old and replace it with a brand spanking new one?)

 

[zeldspazz]

A new matchup thread would be nice =)

 

[RoyalBlood]

I support the unsticking the matchup thread & make a new, more condensed one.

And fixing the front page of course.

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

Will this be the matchup thread with links to all the individual matchup discusions? Either way they'll have to be kept updated and not die. iirc the old thread never got through discussions on the whole cast. We need to clean up the Zelda boards.

EDIT: Is the current social thread name staying or going? I was thinking of maybe "The Sanctuary" from A Link To The Past. Zelda did stay there....but got kidnapped. Maybe "Hyrule Castle?" But does it sound sexy enough?

 

[Kataefi]

But does it sound sexy enough?

Well, Zelda is bringing sexy back

I quite like The Sanctuary - I think Kakariko definitely has a nice jist to it though. Pub implies she's plastered by one toooo many drinks and getting rowdy so I'm not too sure...

I can make a new matchup thread tonight if people are comfortable with that? It'll simply be along the lines of:

-MATCHUP THREAD-

Welcome blah blah blah

[links to individual matchup threads go here]

If you have any problems with a specific matchup please say so here... blah blah

END
​

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

it lets you focus on a specific character in each thread: good

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I agree, it'll be much easier to navigate through, and allows you to see how the current matchup is rather than the older matchup thread.

 

[Kataefi]

Looks like there's a good enough response! I'll make a lovely thread right now

edit:: is this cool? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240002

 

[Ochobobo]

It looks great. Also, I love the pictures you added to the Temple of Time index thread, really gives it some extra flavor instead of just text. Oh yeah, don't forget to update the link to the matchup thread in that too, lol

 

[Kataefi]

Ocho we'll need your chart as well for both zelda and sheik!

 

[Ochobobo]

Here it is:

I think I'll just leave all the matchups blank that we haven't rediscussed yet (Sheik too), hang on a sec, lol.

 

[GodAtHand]

So far Zelda has a larger number of favourable matchups... surprising. In comparison to Sheik's numbers of course.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Why is Sheik vs Falco listed as 51-49 for her? Wat pushes it in her favour so negligably?

Also, aren't some of those matchup numbers somewhat outdated? Nice chart, though, it's looking good.

 

[Ochobobo]

Alrighty, just wiped the slate clean of outdated matchups. Looks pretty barren now, but at least the information's up to date!

Why is Sheik vs Falco listed as 51-49 for her? Wat pushes it in her favour so negligably?

Their matchup description isn't 100% clear on that for some reason, but I'm assuming it has something to do with her ftilt on Falco. lol

 

[choknater]

hahaha wow that's an interesting and nice looking chart

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah I like it =p it's very clear to read imo.

Chok I think we need to start a separate matchup thread and factor in the duo and how they compare to the rest of the cast. It could bring in both the sheik high level players and zelda ones and those in betwen who main both at a high level.. I think it could be reeeally useful. What do you say?

 

[choknater]

I agree

Not many of the Sheik board regulars are also regulars here. I only see marsulas going back and forth...

We play the same character lol. We should work together!

 

[SinkingHigher]

D:

Chok >:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdaQhitdKg

Anyway, am I the only one finding Ocho's chart (the left column especially) incredibly difficult to look at?

Why is GW so bad exactly? So bad that he's the worse matchup for either character.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I can help on the chart since I play both.

GW is bad because he beats Zelda pretty bad and shuts down most of Sheik's options to the point where you have to play very defensively. Needles are invaluable in this matchup! You can really only get 2 or 3 Ftllts in before he can get out with UpB so follow up with aerials. DACUS is good against him since he'll be in the air often and the chain actually beats all of his moves in used correctly. Sadly, I still haven't seen Tristan's god chain yet so we'll knock that out. I know you can grab release to fair but the timing is a little hard. Nice way to rack damage. He can kill so quick though.......SO FAST!

 

[Ochobobo]

Anyway, am I the only one finding Ocho's chart (the left column especially) incredibly difficult to look at?

Do you mean the part with all the character names or Zelda's ratios? Zelda's ratios are probably difficult to look at now since most of it is completely blank. Not to mention how almost all the matchups we have now are in the red, which doesn't make a nice contrast with SmashBoard's dark background. lol

I suppose I could give a little white border to the red numbers to make them easier to look at.

 

[sasook]

Hey Zelda mains. I've decided to pick up Zelda. I was here a while ago, and wanted to pick her up, but decided my Link and ZSS needed more improvement before picking up another character. But now I've decided to pick her up, she just looks like a lot of fun to play.

I made up my mind for sure after watching this match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7O3YNwxSAg

That kinda sealed the deal for me. I watched that vid and I was like "man....Zelda looks fun to play." So umm, I guess I'll lurk for a little while, find out who everyone is and stuffz, and post when/where I can. Hopefully I'll be able to improve my Zelda soon enough.

 

[GodAtHand]

Welcome to the Zelda boards.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

welcome to Zelda boards, beware the trolls

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

Welcome to the Zelda boards. If you need any quick help with her go to the Q & A thread.

 

[Ochobobo]

Yeah, playing as Zelda definitely is fun to do, even though she's so low tier right now, lol. Lightning Kicks, dair spikes, and uairs are too satisfying. lol

Check out the Zelda video thread for more epicness, and welcome to the Zelda boards!

 

[sasook]

Thanks guys ^_^

I was actually reading a bit of the guide, I'll check out the video thread a little later, probably tomorrow.

And don't worry, I'm no stranger to playing low tiers. lol

 

[KayLo!]

Hi, sasook.

Watching that match makes me wanna go practice perfect shielding.

 

[sasook]

Just to get an idea...

is that Zelda really good/good/decent/bad?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

that Zelda was sexy ,thats a fact

 

[choknater]

D:

Chok >:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdaQhitdKg

my bad

el autobus combo is amazing

this board should have

great fairy fountain as a theme song