![[FBC] Papa Mink](/data/avatars/l/166/166410.jpg?1363023093){kind=avatar}
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
I love you too man.
Why aren't we friends on facebook.
Why aren't we friends on facebook.
-
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Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers
- Thread starter phanna
- Start date
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Why aren't WE friends on facebook? =(
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
Yo.
/ryankane52290
find me.
and clarify who the **** you are O.o
/ryankane52290
find me.
and clarify who the **** you are O.o
Just added you
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Hey guys i was talking to snakeee and he told me something about a standing cg on falco something like dash cg dash cg does anyone know how to do this? he also said the timing was really strict :/
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Hmm. I don't know of any CGs on Falco, maybe you can get like 1 regrab if the first fthrow is at 0%.
All our other CGs are buffered, if this is buffered then the timing isn't really that strict. I would assume it's buffered, though. If it works when it's NOT buffered, it will probably work when it IS buffered. Don't see why it wouldn't. :\
At low percents, it's probably just best to dsmash lock him. I believe I read somewhere that it goes to ~40% if the Falco DIs correctly. Goes higher if they don't (I think like 60-70). You can follow up with a fair afterward, which is another 17% assuming it's fresh.
Realistically though, it'll probably be hard to land either a dsmash or grab on Falco.
All our other CGs are buffered, if this is buffered then the timing isn't really that strict. I would assume it's buffered, though. If it works when it's NOT buffered, it will probably work when it IS buffered. Don't see why it wouldn't. :\
At low percents, it's probably just best to dsmash lock him. I believe I read somewhere that it goes to ~40% if the Falco DIs correctly. Goes higher if they don't (I think like 60-70). You can follow up with a fair afterward, which is another 17% assuming it's fresh.
Realistically though, it'll probably be hard to land either a dsmash or grab on Falco.
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Hmm alright I see I need to learn as much as I can of zss bad mu's
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
F-throw before like 8%. We get standing regrab. Then, we get buffered f-throw cg to like... 4X%.
PEACE7
Smash Champion
That's what I was looking for thanks nigg
Dakpo
Smash Lord
maybe im just bad, but do we have a low percent chain grab on snake?
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
We might have a grab release on Falco but not sure.
Dakpo
Smash Lord
yea i was wondering, i never seem to land it! Thanks nick
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
Game and Watch is a good team mate.
Nick Riddle and Shaky vids.
Nick Riddle and Shaky vids.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Is there some sort of list of the people we can edgeguard safely with dair? I've been wondering about certain characters, like DK, spacies and Diddy out of their upBs. Maybe Luigi out of down-B.
I asked because I have, when playing against a Diddy on YI:B, edgeguarded with dair while he was charging upB right next to the wall. I lived, because the jetpack flew off, hit the wall, and the explosion hit me upwards by a little bit. Diddy didn't get hit by the explosion though, he just died off the bottom. I just wanted to screw around, but it worked XD
I asked because I have, when playing against a Diddy on YI:B, edgeguarded with dair while he was charging upB right next to the wall. I lived, because the jetpack flew off, hit the wall, and the explosion hit me upwards by a little bit. Diddy didn't get hit by the explosion though, he just died off the bottom. I just wanted to screw around, but it worked XD
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Yeah but that's unreliable.
You can get Sheik's wind part, GaW and Marth fafaik. Might be more, cba to think atm
You can get Sheik's wind part, GaW and Marth fafaik. Might be more, cba to think atm
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Ness + Lucas PKT~
Dr. Tuen
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Messages
- 1,396
- 3DS FC
- 0559-7294-8323
Could someone explain in detail how to wavebounce with neutral b vs side b? Is changing your momentum possible with up B as well? If so, how? I'd prefer to see this presented using 1-9 notation for control stick position, as that is the easiest to understand.
I've been at this for a little over a month now and I'm headed into my second event and I still can't do this on purpose. Sometimes the accidents win games, and sometimes they lose games. It's weird.
Also, say you were falling and you wanted to wavebounce your side B. Can you bounce left and do the move right? alternatively, can you bounce left and also do the move left? I don't know how flexible this is at all.
Thanks in advance!
I've been at this for a little over a month now and I'm headed into my second event and I still can't do this on purpose. Sometimes the accidents win games, and sometimes they lose games. It's weird.
Also, say you were falling and you wanted to wavebounce your side B. Can you bounce left and do the move right? alternatively, can you bounce left and also do the move left? I don't know how flexible this is at all.
Thanks in advance!
Okay
To sideB wavebounce to the left:
(have momentum to the right for most noticable effect) 6 4B
To sideB wavebounce to the right:
(have momentum to the let for most noticable effect) 4 6B
To nB wavebounce to left:
4 6 4 5B
To nB wavebounce to right:
6 4 6 5B
There's another set you can do which will move you in the opposite direction you're moving, I can't really explain it, not in front of the game to test. But try variations of this out.
@ second question: you can bounce left and move left.
You can wavebounce upB and downB, although downB isn't very useful.
upB is like
4 6 4 8B
6 4 6 8B
Useful for quick grabbing the edge with upB, to take advantage of 0 getoff lag when you upB to ledge. Also for tricksies with people above you.
To sideB wavebounce to the left:
(have momentum to the right for most noticable effect) 6 4B
To sideB wavebounce to the right:
(have momentum to the let for most noticable effect) 4 6B
To nB wavebounce to left:
4 6 4 5B
To nB wavebounce to right:
6 4 6 5B
There's another set you can do which will move you in the opposite direction you're moving, I can't really explain it, not in front of the game to test. But try variations of this out.
@ second question: you can bounce left and move left.
You can wavebounce upB and downB, although downB isn't very useful.
upB is like
4 6 4 8B
6 4 6 8B
Useful for quick grabbing the edge with upB, to take advantage of 0 getoff lag when you upB to ledge. Also for tricksies with people above you.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
If I wasn't so tired I would totally explain it.
But, you do it.
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,303
Ok in terms of specials, there are two ways to make your character do them in a specific direction:
Turn-around Special: Input - (within 15 frames of inputting special) Direction you want to face > Special
This simply turns around the user when they perform the special.
Special Reversal: Input - Special > (within finite amount of frames of inputting special, it varies over different moves) Direction you want to face.
Notice you input the direction AFTER you hit the special button. This turns around the user, but also creates a momentum shift in the opposite direction of what you were originally moving.
If you combine the two, you wave bounce:
Input - Direction (within 15 frames) > Special > Direction (within finite amount of frames).
Essentially, this gives you the momentum shift but also let's you special the same way your character was originally facing.
Side Special Wave Bouncing with 1-9 Notation:
If Facing Right, you would end up whipping right:
Input - 4Special > 6
The 4special turns you to face one way as a turn around special, while 6 acts as the reversal agent
If Facing Left, you would end up whipping left:
Input - 6Special > 4
The 6special turns you to face on way as a turn around special, while the 4 acts as the reversal agent.
Depending on which way you were drifting, it would cause a significant momentum bounce in the opposite direction.
Wave Bouncing Neutral Special Wave Bounce:
If facing right, you would end up using paralyzer right:
Input - 4 > 5 special > 6
The 4 acts as the turn around agent while the 6 acts as the reversal agent immediately after
If facing left, you would end up using a paralyzer left:
Input - 6 > 5 special > 4
The 6 acts as the turn around agent while the 4 acts as the reversal agent immediately after
Depending on the direction you were drifting would determine the direction you bounce.
For example, if you wanted to bounce right but do a move left, you would need to originally be drifting left, and depending on the direction you were originally facing while drifting, you would have to either reversal left or wave bounce left. By doing the reversal/wavebounce, you would shift your momentum right.
If you wanted to do a move left and bounce to the left, you would need to originally drifitng to the right. Depending on the way you were orginally facing while drifting, you would have to either reversal left or wave bounce left. By doing the reversal/wavebounce, you would shift your momentum to the left.
Turn-around Special: Input - (within 15 frames of inputting special) Direction you want to face > Special
This simply turns around the user when they perform the special.
Special Reversal: Input - Special > (within finite amount of frames of inputting special, it varies over different moves) Direction you want to face.
Notice you input the direction AFTER you hit the special button. This turns around the user, but also creates a momentum shift in the opposite direction of what you were originally moving.
If you combine the two, you wave bounce:
Input - Direction (within 15 frames) > Special > Direction (within finite amount of frames).
Essentially, this gives you the momentum shift but also let's you special the same way your character was originally facing.
Side Special Wave Bouncing with 1-9 Notation:
If Facing Right, you would end up whipping right:
Input - 4Special > 6
The 4special turns you to face one way as a turn around special, while 6 acts as the reversal agent
If Facing Left, you would end up whipping left:
Input - 6Special > 4
The 6special turns you to face on way as a turn around special, while the 4 acts as the reversal agent.
Depending on which way you were drifting, it would cause a significant momentum bounce in the opposite direction.
Wave Bouncing Neutral Special Wave Bounce:
If facing right, you would end up using paralyzer right:
Input - 4 > 5 special > 6
The 4 acts as the turn around agent while the 6 acts as the reversal agent immediately after
If facing left, you would end up using a paralyzer left:
Input - 6 > 5 special > 4
The 6 acts as the turn around agent while the 4 acts as the reversal agent immediately after
Depending on the direction you were drifting would determine the direction you bounce.
For example, if you wanted to bounce right but do a move left, you would need to originally be drifting left, and depending on the direction you were originally facing while drifting, you would have to either reversal left or wave bounce left. By doing the reversal/wavebounce, you would shift your momentum right.
If you wanted to do a move left and bounce to the left, you would need to originally drifitng to the right. Depending on the way you were orginally facing while drifting, you would have to either reversal left or wave bounce left. By doing the reversal/wavebounce, you would shift your momentum to the left.
Dr. Tuen
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Messages
- 1,396
- 3DS FC
- 0559-7294-8323
Awesome. This is exactly what I needed. I have read your guys' smash lab stuff, I'm just a bit dyslexic.
So by assessing this, I think I've been able to get the paralyzer to work at a somewhat reasonable success rate (which may improve drastically having read this). The whipping side B seems more difficult. Getting from 4 to 6 in 15 frames is much harder than getting from 5 to 6 in 15 frames. Hmm.
Seems like there is a lot of planning ahead that has to go into wavebouncing where you want to wave bounce. Say if you were threatening someone with two short hop bairs and on the third one wanted to jump away and side B instead. This would be jumping away and just b-reversing. If you start it up and they actually started running away, you'd wavebounce back so that the side B will reach. Is that right?
Anyways, thanks a bunch, I'll start working on it!
===
Oh, and up/down B specials would be wavebounced as follows... right?
Facing right, bouncing right
Input - 4 > 8/2 special > 6
Facing left, bouncing left
Input - 6 > 8/2 special > 4
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,303
The problem you're having with the Side special is that wave bouncing a sidespecial (imo) is significantly easier if you think of it as
Wave Bounce input: Sidespecial the way you aren't facing (not the direction you're moving, this has nothing to do with it, it's the direction your character is oriented) > Immediately input the opposite direction.
Wave Bounce input: Sidespecial the way you aren't facing (not the direction you're moving, this has nothing to do with it, it's the direction your character is oriented) > Immediately input the opposite direction.
Razmakazi
Smash Champion
how do you stutterstep dsmash?
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
the same way you Dash Dance pivot Dsmash without the initial fox trot. Just press back> forward cstick down really fast. But as you are doing the forward input lift your finger off the controller. Thats how I do it.
PEACE7
Smash Champion
What are some good uses of Zss dair? besides using it on earthounds pkt, and spiking with it after a dsmash on a platform like Delfino. Also does the hitbox on her jab reach behind her when she is facing forward? because I was watching a match where a gameandwatch was charging his upSmash behind Zss and the zss used jab to hit him out of it.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Don't know about the jab
-Uh, you may have simply forgotten to mention it but just in case, dair allows us to infinite Rob (you can infinite without it through the use of downb but dair might be easier)
-If you're high enough you can dair onto the stage and you won't suffer from ending lag, or if really high offstage you can dair and then tether to the ledge just to get back on stage faster (not really that useful but if say an MK is on the other end of the stage and he starts running to edgeguard the **** out of you, this may help)
-If MK nados below you, you can knock him out of it with dair
-If you're juggling someone up high and you hit them with an upB, and they fall down too quickly for you to hit them with uair/bair, you can follow up with dair
-Uh, hard reads? XD
-You can use dair to edge-guarding/build up percent on Brinstar and Norfair I guess.
-Repeated dair if your opponent goes into the water on Delfino = free damage
All of these are pretty situational and some can be risky.
If you have a stock lead on someone (or they have a significant percent lead on you) and you get a dsmash --> footstool offstage, you can dair after the footstool to maintain that lead in the former case or even things out in the latter (assuming the footstool alone won't kill them of course). Essentially, a suicide kill.
Oh, if you try this suicide kill on a Diddy on YI:B that's charging his upB right next to the wall of the stage, the jetpack can hit the wall and explode as soon as it comes off of Diddy (thus saving you) while Diddy dies. I've done it a few times, but I haven't tested it so I don't know how often you will be saved. I think I've been saved every time though
Pretty much everything here was just general knowledge of dair and you probably know all of these things (except maybe the last one). I just listed everything out just in case you never consider them as options in-game. If I didn't help at all, then I guess you're using dair properly
-Uh, you may have simply forgotten to mention it but just in case, dair allows us to infinite Rob (you can infinite without it through the use of downb but dair might be easier)
-If you're high enough you can dair onto the stage and you won't suffer from ending lag, or if really high offstage you can dair and then tether to the ledge just to get back on stage faster (not really that useful but if say an MK is on the other end of the stage and he starts running to edgeguard the **** out of you, this may help)
-If MK nados below you, you can knock him out of it with dair
-If you're juggling someone up high and you hit them with an upB, and they fall down too quickly for you to hit them with uair/bair, you can follow up with dair
-Uh, hard reads? XD
-You can use dair to edge-guarding/build up percent on Brinstar and Norfair I guess.
-Repeated dair if your opponent goes into the water on Delfino = free damage
All of these are pretty situational and some can be risky.
If you have a stock lead on someone (or they have a significant percent lead on you) and you get a dsmash --> footstool offstage, you can dair after the footstool to maintain that lead in the former case or even things out in the latter (assuming the footstool alone won't kill them of course). Essentially, a suicide kill.
Oh, if you try this suicide kill on a Diddy on YI:B that's charging his upB right next to the wall of the stage, the jetpack can hit the wall and explode as soon as it comes off of Diddy (thus saving you) while Diddy dies. I've done it a few times, but I haven't tested it so I don't know how often you will be saved. I think I've been saved every time though
Pretty much everything here was just general knowledge of dair and you probably know all of these things (except maybe the last one). I just listed everything out just in case you never consider them as options in-game. If I didn't help at all, then I guess you're using dair properly
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Good stuff man didn't know about the diddy thing I got to test that out I play a diddy quite often.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
You play a Diddy often? Can you do the infinite?
If not, you should learn it. It's incredibly easy and basically means you can get a stock anytime you land a forward glide toss on him (I guess a down toss would work as well, but it's harder to land)
Which basically means you can get a stock anytime you land the paralyzer on him.
Uh, how often do you guys use ftilt? I almost never use it. The only times I do is when someone is approaching from diagonally above and in front of me, and I angle it up because it doesn't seem like anything else has enough range/comes out fast enough.
If not, you should learn it. It's incredibly easy and basically means you can get a stock anytime you land a forward glide toss on him (I guess a down toss would work as well, but it's harder to land)
Which basically means you can get a stock anytime you land the paralyzer on him.
Uh, how often do you guys use ftilt? I almost never use it. The only times I do is when someone is approaching from diagonally above and in front of me, and I angle it up because it doesn't seem like anything else has enough range/comes out fast enough.
Dakpo
Smash Lord
i use ftilt at weird times for punishing moves
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Yeah, that too. Like if I'm facing away from a Snake and I spotdodge through his ftilt, I tend to punish with turn-around ftilt because it doesn't seem like anything else will come out quickly enough. Perhaps I should practice my pivot dtilts.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
No dsmash, unfortunately.
Deathfox30
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2010
- Messages
- 483
I think we can on Charizard if you space it perfectly. And D smash should cover everything if you trip someone near the ledge.
MdrnDayMercutio
Smash Champion
I don't remember the specific angle. But I had found that when Dairing Diddy the barrels would always release and hit you in travel(no splosion) and stop your fall. It was pretty sweet... but it was awhile ago and I didn't look into after that game.