PEACE7
Smash Champion
Wow that's really good stuff I had no idea he couldn't grab the the ledge after the jab that's ****ing great.
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Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers
- Thread starter phanna
- Start date
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
That is, 1st hit of jab. Don't do the entire combo.
...Am I the only one that thinks ZSS:Snake is even? And am I crazy? XD
...Am I the only one that thinks ZSS:Snake is even? And am I crazy? XD
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Yea I thought so. And I feel like it might be even as well or slight advantage Snake.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
It's going to be moved to even.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
So speaking of the Snake v. ZSS MU, I remember someone mentioning that you can dash attack as snake for a reliable punish against ZSS sideB, I used to be able to do this consistently, but now as I've been using snake more again after a hiatus, I either accidentally buffer a mine from shield, or it pushes me too far for me to reach/the lag has ended and they are able to get out of the way. Is this still a punishment option for snake, or has it been disproven?
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=305323
Side-b is -10 on shield, so if Snake can hit us with a dash attack in 10 frames (I really doubt it) then it's a reliable punish. Our down-b's invincibility starts on frame 1 so theoretically we can escape anything that comes out after 10 frames.
Side-b is -10 on shield, so if Snake can hit us with a dash attack in 10 frames (I really doubt it) then it's a reliable punish. Our down-b's invincibility starts on frame 1 so theoretically we can escape anything that comes out after 10 frames.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Except he said that side-b doesn't give ZSS shield-stun.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Ok
Side-b is -10on shield
Side-b is -10
TSM ZeRo
Banned via Administration
Questions
Hello.
As a Meta Knight player I have the following questions about Zero Suit Samus:
Thanks in advance. And sorry for so many questions, haha.
Hello.
As a Meta Knight player I have the following questions about Zero Suit Samus:
- Where I should counterpick ZSS? (Apex's Ruleset, no Brinstar/Rainbow Cruise). And also, which stages should I ban against ZSS?
- What's the best way to edgeguard ZSS? I usually bait her to do something, like a Down-B, and then punish from there. However, ZSS can usually grab the ledge before I do, and if I do, she can just Down-B to the stage (and the Down-B invenciblity frames covers any Shuttle Loop/Aerial attack I can do). What do I do? I am sure that I'm not edgeguarding ZSS the right way, lol.
- Which attacks of ZSS beat MK's tornado from the front? So far, I know that Side-B and D-Smash can beat tornado if spaced correctly.
- Can someone explain to me, how ZSS's Down-B works (The properties of the attack)? And when I can exactly punish that move? Before the attack? During the attack? Or after the attack? Also, does Shuttle Loop beat ZSS's Down-B (after/before the invenciblity frames)?
Thanks in advance
. And sorry for so many questions, haha.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
Can I get some ZSS to start listing some frame traps in my compendium thread on these boards
![[FBC] Papa Mink](/data/avatars/l/166/166410.jpg?1363023093){kind=avatar}
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
Uhm, i'm not 100% sure what you're explaining, but i'll do my best.
If you're describing running off and using the Up B to spike them, you need to hold diagonally up and forward when running off, or else you will tether the ledge.
If you are describing Up B'ing them when they are hanging on the stage, you shouldn't be tethering the ledge, because they're hanging on it.
if this isn't what you meant, try being more clear.
If you're describing running off and using the Up B to spike them, you need to hold diagonally up and forward when running off, or else you will tether the ledge.
If you are describing Up B'ing them when they are hanging on the stage, you shouldn't be tethering the ledge, because they're hanging on it.
if this isn't what you meant, try being more clear.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
hnnnnnnggggghhh
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
LAWL
thanks!
thanks!
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
It's not spacing. When you up+b, hold the control stick diagonally away from the stage instead of mashing it straight up.
PEACE7
Smash Champion
When doing the rob infinite, how much do we have to wait til we do the next dsmash, after we have footstooled and dair? I hope that makes sense lol
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I don't think there's a minimum amount of time for the dsmash. There's a maximum of course.
Unless the dsmash is after a footstool --> dair --> paralyzer (or any forced get-up), in which case you have to wait until they stand again.
Unless the dsmash is after a footstool --> dair --> paralyzer (or any forced get-up), in which case you have to wait until they stand again.
PEACE7
Smash Champion
alright cool thanks man
Dakpo
Smash Lord
why does it say we have a -1 in the marth match up? i can't imagine this being a bad match up. Even if anything
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Don't know. I've been told that the Marth boards overrate all of their MUs.
Dakpo
Smash Lord
*wanders over to the marth boards :3*
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Is there any way to cancel a tether upB? If so how?
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
What do you mean by cancel?
If you've already tethered to the edge and are still hanging on by your tether, you can press down to drop off...if that's what you meant to ask.
Obviously, doing this without a jump can mean death XD
If you've already tethered to the edge and are still hanging on by your tether, you can press down to drop off...if that's what you meant to ask.
Obviously, doing this without a jump can mean death XD
PEACE7
Smash Champion
I don't really know maybe I'm just overthinking it, but I seen some zss's tether the ledge let go of it mad quick and go for a back air, side b or whatever and than tether again. Nevermind tho I found out how a friend explained it to me.
Cygnet
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2011
- Messages
- 115
Kinda related to the above question (and obviously inspired by Salem videos!), but WHY do some ZSSes drop their tether? It seems like if you were going to tether and drop it to DJ, you could've just DJed, so it's probably some sort of a mindgame thing. I don't really get it, but that's my inexperience talking.
Also, why do some ZSSes do the first hit of jab after dsmash? Is it just for the extra damage or the extra hitstun? It seems like doing a double dsmash would..... do more damage? Not sure, really. (And on a similar note, why do some ZSSes only single dsmash at non-low percentages?)
I hope they're not silly, incomprehensible questions. I'm trying to add bits of other ZSSes' game into my own, but I don't really get it too much. :/
Also, why do some ZSSes do the first hit of jab after dsmash? Is it just for the extra damage or the extra hitstun? It seems like doing a double dsmash would..... do more damage? Not sure, really. (And on a similar note, why do some ZSSes only single dsmash at non-low percentages?)
I hope they're not silly, incomprehensible questions. I'm trying to add bits of other ZSSes' game into my own, but I don't really get it too much. :/
1. If you pull in with the tether, you follow a set arc. This = gimps. Salem overused it and got gimped by doing it. ZSS recovery is difficult and is a metagame in itself.
2. Dsmash has 0 shield stun, so if people try to grab it, jab hits them. It's basically for our safety.
2. Dsmash has 0 shield stun, so if people try to grab it, jab hits them. It's basically for our safety.
Dr. Tuen
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Messages
- 1,396
- 3DS FC
- 0559-7294-8323
So can you cancel the tether with your double jump at any point before the pull-in?
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
You cancel the tether with down, then double jump.
So in fighting terms, you do something like this:
6b (sideB to the ledge), 2, j
So in fighting terms, you do something like this:
6b (sideB to the ledge), 2, j
Dr. Tuen
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Messages
- 1,396
- 3DS FC
- 0559-7294-8323
This is fantastic, I'll have to utilize it a little bit more. I've definitely been punished really hard vs MK because of the falling tether arc. He either nairs or shuttle loops :-/. Since that'll remain relevant to me after January (Oregon probably won't follow the ban), I'll need this for sure.
Also, props for the numerical notation. I wish more people would use that.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Yeah I figured numerical would be easier.
We used to use that (back in the days of noradseven etc) but it kinda died out because it's not widely used.
I'm gonna use it more often too, it's really good.
We used to use that (back in the days of noradseven etc) but it kinda died out because it's not widely used.
I'm gonna use it more often too, it's really good.
Dakpo
Smash Lord
side b= SmashDI up
Bair= lean up
Uair= lean right or left
Bair= lean up
Uair= lean right or left
Cygnet
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2011
- Messages
- 115
1. Why not...... just jump then? Because you'd still need a second jump to recover given that your tether wouldn't be a viable option, right?
2. Ohh, that makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for the answers! ;D
What happens if your opponent predicts a jump? They punish you the same way. The thing is that tricking your opponent's visual confirmation is a great trick that can help you survive.
Say that they see the start of your tether animation. They know what's going to happen, you're going to follow an arc and probably retract to the edge, maybe to abuse your instant get off and invincibility to recover. They can punish that.
So you grapple the edge. They're ready to hit you with a fair/nair/shine. But then you cancel and jump. They're potentially in a very very bad position, and you're alive for a little longer.
So next time your opponent predicts that you'll do that trick again. As they see your tether, they float to where you would be if you vertically jumped. But you retracted, use your instant ledge drop and hit them with a bair/sideB for the stock.
Essentially, it gives us a lot more options to play with.
Say that they see the start of your tether animation. They know what's going to happen, you're going to follow an arc and probably retract to the edge, maybe to abuse your instant get off and invincibility to recover. They can punish that.
So you grapple the edge. They're ready to hit you with a fair/nair/shine. But then you cancel and jump. They're potentially in a very very bad position, and you're alive for a little longer.
So next time your opponent predicts that you'll do that trick again. As they see your tether, they float to where you would be if you vertically jumped. But you retracted, use your instant ledge drop and hit them with a bair/sideB for the stock.
Essentially, it gives us a lot more options to play with.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Can someone give me the "What To Do/NOT to Dos in of the ICs MU.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
What do: Listen to Nickriddle (he makes that **** look like +3)
What not do: get grabbed
imo
What not do: get grabbed
imo
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
NickRiddle baby, help me :D
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
Give the NickRiddle call.
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
How did you know?!
Learn to space.
ZSS has multiple moves that are safe on shield. (By safe, I mean impossible to grab)
Bair on shield is safe perfectly spaced.
D-smash should ALWAYS be safe on shield.
Same with retreating side-b.
Side-b has more range than blizzard, so use it. If ICs use any ice move, just jump in and side-b during the, probable, start-up of the next one. ICs love desynched boring ice moves, and ZSS ***** that **** hardcore.
Kill Popo, and time them out. It's easy due to ZSS's speed and her high jumps.
Also, grab *****.
Thundercats?
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I saw AshPikachu17 post