Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[DeliciousCake]

My next question is, what are the rules regarding topics for videos? Am I allowed to make new topics or should I just post them in the video archive and hope they get critiqued there?

Anyways, I'm going to try and post here often from now on, rather than just the Link boards ^_^

Just take a look at the rules and you'll be fine. We're a friendly enough bunch.

 

[cba]

Just take a look at the rules and you'll be fine. We're a friendly enough bunch.

nuff' said

 

[FadedImage]

Adapt is right, make sure you can recover properly without getting gimped, it's the first step on the ZSS ladder. If you need help, check out Snakeee's thread here. Once you feel confident in being able to return without getting gimped, you can move on to other things.

There isn't really a good guide on how to space properly with ZSS, but that should probably be your next focus. Learn the ins and outs of her Side-B, aerials, tilts, and grab. Your general gameplan as a ZSS is space with side-b and then punish any approaches with aerials, d-smash, and tilts.

Quick scenario: throw out a side-b so that the sweetspot lands just in front of opponent's shield. They slide back, drop shield, and begin dashing forward. You retreating short hop, preparing to do another side-b, but realize they'll be too close (on the close side of the sweetspot), so instead you n-air, they shield, you d-tilt to pressure, they get hit out of their grab, and you follow up with u-air. etc etc.​

The point is, pressure the approach with side-b, and then pick it apart with your fast aerials and tilts, and maybe a d-smash with good spacing. (A good great thread to get info about all of ZSS's attacks is Adapt's thread, right here)

After you learn spacing, you should learn how to deal with shield pressure. Since ZSS has a bad shieldgrab, you have to rely on other out-of-shield options. Try different things, u-tilt, jab, d-tilt, u-air, etc. Find what you're comfortable with, and what works in which situations.

After that, learn combos. They're gonna be your best form of racking up damage. I don't mean to plug myself, but I've got a thread on combos right here. Once your opponent is in the air, they shouldn't touch the ground without taking 10-20% damage, if not more.

Finally, learn edgeguarding. It's like the mastery of your recovery, and it's a great way to get some kills. Knowing exactly how to edgeguard each character is important, and it's something we're currently working on in the match-up thread (found here). Until that list is completed, you should practice connecting with b-airs off stage for edgeguards and d-smashing people coming off of the ledge.

Other than that, it's the mastery of each matchup, which the previously mentioned matchup thread should help with, and learning the little quirks about ZSS, (like a lot of stuff found in Adapt's odds and ends thread, here)

and of course, posting on our Q&A thread is a great way to get some help! Happy hunting! d;

 

[Snakeee]

Adapt is right, make sure you can recover properly without getting gimped, it's the first step on the ZSS ladder. If you need help, check out Snakeee's thread here. Once you feel confident in being able to return without getting gimped, you can move on to other things.

There isn't really a good guide on how to space properly with ZSS, but that should probably be your next focus. Learn the ins and outs of her Side-B, aerials, tilts, and grab. Your general gameplan as a ZSS is space with side-b and then punish any approaches with aerials, d-smash, and tilts.

Quick scenario: throw out a side-b so that the sweetspot lands just in front of opponent's shield. They slide back, drop shield, and begin dashing forward. You retreating short hop, preparing to do another side-b, but realize they'll be too close (on the close side of the sweetspot), so instead you n-air, they shield, you d-tilt to pressure, they get hit out of their grab, and you follow up with u-air. etc etc.​

The point is, pressure the approach with side-b, and then pick it apart with your fast aerials and tilts, and maybe a d-smash with good spacing. (A good great thread to get info about all of ZSS's attacks is Adapt's thread, right here)

After you learn spacing, you should learn how to deal with shield pressure. Since ZSS has a bad shieldgrab, you have to rely on other out-of-shield options. Try different things, u-tilt, jab, d-tilt, u-air, etc. Find what you're comfortable with, and what works in which situations.

After that, learn combos. They're gonna be your best form of racking up damage. I don't mean to plug myself, but I've got a thread on combos right here. Once your opponent is in the air, they shouldn't touch the ground without taking 10-20% damage, if not more.

Finally, learn edgeguarding. It's like the mastery of your recovery, and it's a great way to get some kills. Knowing exactly how to edgeguard each character is important, and it's something we're currently working on in the match-up thread (found here). Until that list is completed, you should practice connecting with b-airs off stage for edgeguards and d-smashing people coming off of the ledge.

Other than that, it's the mastery of each matchup, which the previously mentioned matchup thread should help with, and learning the little quirks about ZSS, (like a lot of stuff found in Adapt's odds and ends thread, here)

and of course, posting on our Q&A thread is a great way to get some help! Happy hunting! d;

Seriously, I'm going to start pushing this now, spacing Side B's/Down Smash/paralyzer is not a very effective strategy against someone that knows the match up well. My new strategy is starting to work a lot better for me now than that. If people aren't catching on to you Faded, then that's fine for now. But, I'm telling you that people will catch on eventually, and you'll have to switch things up. It does still work against certain characters though.

 

[Adapt]

Seriously, I'm going to start pushing this now, spacing Side B's/Down Smash/paralyzer is not a very effective strategy against someone that knows the match up well. My new strategy is starting to work a lot better for me now than that. If people aren't catching on to you Faded, then that's fine for now. But, I'm telling you that people will catch on eventually, and you'll have to switch things up. It does still work against certain characters though.

post a new topic about your new playstyle preferably with some vids so people will understand what's going on. (A Vid against someone who beats the normal spacing game, then the same matchup only with the new playstyle would go a long way to explaining why it would be better)

It's best to have discussion in one place rather than spread out over 3 topics.

 

[Snakeee]

post a new topic about your new playstyle preferably with some vids so people will understand what's going on. (A Vid against someone who beats the normal spacing game, then the same matchup only with the new playstyle would go a long way to explaining why it would be better)

It's best to have discussion in one place rather than spread out over 3 topics.

Thanks, that's a good idea, although I don't have any good vids to show yet...maybe my set against Wes and Ninja Link if those are put up since those are from yesterday. Those might not even be the best examples though.

 

[FadedImage]

I don't see what's wrong with spacing side-bs no matter what. I play with plenty of people that know the match-up well, and it doesn't lose its effectiveness. The point is to switch it up when you know they'll get past the sweetspot, I usually use a n-air in that situation, has enough power to push people away so they can't shieldgrab, perfect set-up for a d-tilt.

How does knowing a match-up lower the effectiveness of spammable spacing attacks?

And what gameplan are you going with then? I don't see approaching being that great (very few safe-on-block aerials, b-air and n-air?), and without side-b to camp with, not sure what you're doing.

 

[Snakeee]

I don't see what's wrong with spacing side-bs no matter what. I play with plenty of people that know the match-up well, and it doesn't lose its effectiveness. The point is to switch it up when you know they'll get past the sweetspot, I usually use a n-air in that situation, has enough power to push people away so they can't shieldgrab, perfect set-up for a d-tilt.

How does knowing a match-up lower the effectiveness of spammable spacing attacks?

And what gameplan are you going with then? I don't see approaching being that great (very few safe-on-block aerials, b-air and n-air?), and without side-b to camp with, not sure what you're doing.

I'm not talking about them getting past the sweetspot, I'm talking about them powershielding it, which gives them enough time to rush in and grab/hit you.

I hardly use N-air ever except occasionally from a ledgehop, or while grabbing an item. I do a ton of up airs. This includes falling up airs while behind the opponent into more of the same, or to an uptilt, or b-air. If you can get behind the opponent you will hit with the weak part of up air, and that will send them such a short distance that you can often legitimately chain several of them, or lead right into a b-air which will put you in a strong position since it will send them off the stage. Some characters cannot even shieldgrab a spaced up air. Sending your opponent into the air is key, since that's where ZSS is strongest. You'll pull off ridiculous combos this way.

Besides up airs, I also space b-airs, which almost all characters cannot shield grab you out of.

I used this strategy in almost all of my matches yesterday, and I felt it really paid off, and even though I didn't end up winning the whole thing, the competition was really tough. People gave me a lot of positive feedback about the changes in my playstyle

 

[FadedImage]

sounds like you're approaching with u-air and b-airs?

I suppose approaching with b-airs could be powerful, I just worry that they won't be powerful enough later when I need them to KO. Of course, in some match-ups this is probably your best bet (I'm thinking stuff like Falco, people we have trouble running side-b spacing on).

The main thing I'm wondering is the whole PS the side-b thing. I get punished if I miss the spacing on it, but I've never been hit after someone powershielded the sweetspot. I dunno, I'll have to mess around with it a little more, to check it out.

Also, you should really try n-airs, they're sick for shields. Well spaced fastfalled n-airs into d-tilt is ****. If your trying to focus less on side-b and more on aerials, you should definitely try it out (not to mention n-air is easy to follow-up).

 

[ph00tbag]

Charging dsmash > Powershielding.

Just sayin'.

 

[Jmex]

When facing a ddd, how would one escape the chaingrab? Does DI work? Or down b? How does this work?

 

[Snakeee]

When facing a ddd, how would one escape the chaingrab? Does DI work? Or down b? How does this work?

She doesn't get CGed, but she does get followed up by a grab pretty easily. You have to mix up teching the throw, hitting the ground and get up attack, rolling, etc.

Btw, my way to avoid getting grabbed at close range is singlejab - down B, or spot dodge - down B

Ph00tbag, charging d-smash is punishable by most chars actually

 

[ph00tbag]

She doesn't get CGed, but she does get followed up by a grab pretty easily. You have to mix up teching the throw, hitting the ground and get up attack, rolling, etc.

Btw, my way to avoid getting grabbed at close range is singlejab - down B, or spot dodge - down B

Ph00tbag, charging d-smash is punishable by most chars actually

Well, sure, if you charge it every time. I'm not saying always charge your dsmash, or always charge it the same, or never charge it. I'm saying that if your dsmash always comes out on a different frame, your opponent cannot be confident powershielding it. If they want to buffer something out of their attempted powershield, charging for about four or five frames punishes pretty much anything. It also means that if they hold up the shield, it's like any other dsmash on block.

Any action is punishable by any character, but it's harder to punish if it doesn't become a habit.

 

[Charby]

Any action is punishable by any character, but it's harder to punish if it doesn't become a habit.

Except MetaKnight

 

[ph00tbag]

Except MetaKnight

I had meant for that to be implied.

 

[Jmex]

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Stos]

Does Zss have any like jab locks or w.e. ?

 

[sasook]

There's a ftilt trip -> dash attack -> repeat sort of thing, but I dunno if it actually "locks" them or just depends on how bad their teching skills are.

 

[Stos]

^ nice, i havent actually seen this but sounds ****.

Spoiler

also dont tell me you left he brawl link boards lolol.

 

[DeliciousCake]

There's a ftilt trip -> dash attack -> repeat sort of thing, but I dunno if it actually "locks" them or just depends on how bad their teching skills are.

It's the same as a jab lock, so yes, it's an infinite if they don't tech beforehand.

 

[Stos]

^ so im escapeable then.

dam lol.

 

[ph00tbag]

^ so im escapeable then.

dam lol.

It's not as good as it appears at first, though. Both dash attack and ftilt very quickly reach a point where they do too much knockback to lock.

 

[Adapt]

I have a different sort of question:

Why do I never see people dash attack out of a stun?

dsmash>dsmash>dash attack>utilt is the highest damage output of any guaranteed followup string.
Yes, dash attack>utilt is only guaranteed at around 40-80% depending on the character, but this is more reliable than getting both hits of fair at these mid-range percentages. At lower percentages you can also get dsmash>dsmash>dash attack>jab.

 

[cba]

. At lower percentages you can also get dsmash>dsmash>dash attack>jab.

i do that at times, i save the bair for when over 100% depending the char.
but stupid me, i have the irritating habit of dsmashing>neutral b and its like embarassing, snakeee pointed it out.

 

[Snakeee]

I have a different sort of question:

Why do I never see people dash attack out of a stun?

dsmash>dsmash>dash attack>utilt is the highest damage output of any guaranteed followup string.
Yes, dash attack>utilt is only guaranteed at around 40-80% depending on the character, but this is more reliable than getting both hits of fair at these mid-range percentages. At lower percentages you can also get dsmash>dsmash>dash attack>jab.

Funny, I've started doing this on occasion now actually. I'd only do it if I know it will combo though so only at very low percentages on most characters.

 

[Adapt]

Snakeee got post #666 *gasp*

I'm gonna add a big section about what to do out of a stun to my general advice topic.

 

[Sunstar]

I never recognized that footstool jump out of the d-special
good to know ^^
but i never saw that move in any videos i think oO

Has it a useful offensive use? Isn't the spike generally better?

Or is it just useful as recovery?

If i footstool an enemy out of my d-special while he is in the air, will he get into the footstool-animation and fall down a bit?

 

[DeliciousCake]

Has it a useful offensive use? Isn't the spike generally better?

Or is it just useful as recovery?

The Flip Jump spike is the 7th most powerful spike in the game, and it's great when you're off the edge. It also serves as an above-par recovery when combined with the footstool.

If i footstool an enemy out of my d-special while he is in the air, will he get into the footstool-animation and fall down a bit?

No, there is no footstool animation after a special footstool.

 

[Sunstar]

It is clear, that the spike is very strong... i just thougt, why footstooling an enemy, if i am able to spike him or her



I don't know if it was a bug... but about last month I had a 4 player ffa with Marth, Mario, Ganondorf and me as Zero Suit Samus...
We fought on a custom map. A very high one. Compareable to Final Destination, but much bigger
Mario tried to edgeguard me with his b-air or u-air (i don't remember) at the very top right of the map (i was at about 100% and he was at about 120%)
Marth (0%) tried to edgeguard me (and mario), too
(Ganondorf was on the other side of the map...)
But i used d-special and spiked Mario... Mario hits Marth and both of them weren't able to recover because of there incredible fast falling speed
That Marth player was really suprised... like all other players, too... 0% spike with such a falling speed? O.O
Marth was't hit by ZSS, only the naturaly fast falling mario hit him he had no chance to recover?
Bug or normalcy?

We wanted to record the match, but it was too long :/

 

[ph00tbag]

The Flip Jump spike is the 7th most powerful spike in the game, and it's great when you're off the edge. It also serves as an above-par recovery when combined with the footstool.

No, there is no footstool animation after a special footstool.

There is if they're not doing anything.

 

[DeliciousCake]

There is if they're not doing anything.

Yeah but if you do it off someone hanging on a ledge there is no footstool, which is when you'd most likely use it.

 

[sasook]

3 Questions:

With proper momentum canceling, what percentage should ZSS be living up to? I'm used to living til about 170-180% with Link, so it feels really frustrating to die at 110% with ZSS. I was hoping she could get up to at least 150%. Could someone let me know if she can live til that high, consistently?

Is it a smart idea to use downb right after momentum canceling with uair (sometimes uair alone doesn't save me)? Or should I save it?

Is there a Wifi thread on these boards at all? Or a social group? Or a chat, even? I know the rules say to PM but.....I dunno WHO to PM.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Is there a Wifi thread on these boards at all? Or a social group? Or a chat, even? I know the rules say to PM but.....I dunno WHO to PM.

Friend finder, AiB chat, SWF IRC channel, PM active forum members, etc.

 

[Munas]

I personally find I live much higher with zero suit, unless I get gimped (which is difficult to do), I typically live to anywhere between 120-140%, and it's not horribly uncommon to go beyond that. This is playing former Marth Back room member, Ulevo's Marth and MK (typically I die earlier vs his MK, I really need to work on that match up though), so needless to say I'm not just playing scrubs. I typically save the flip jump for last, except in unusual circumstances or -really- high percentages. When sent away from stage I immediately uair and fast fall (as I understand fast falling is the more important aspect when canceling momentum).

Mind you, most of my characters are known for living longer than they should (TL being the worst for this).

Editted for typos.

 

[Snakeee]

I guess I typically live around 140-190%

 

[duals]

I'm going to a tournament this weekend....

I have a dam right problem keeping my head level during a game and distractions are a huge problems for me.... Like people watching me, or having my opponent smack talking...

I basically fall under pressure... any advice?

 

[ph00tbag]

140 seems like a good estimate for me. Sometimes I get all the way up to 200% on rare occasions.

 

[Airgemini]

I'm going to a tournament this weekend....

I have a dam right problem keeping my head level during a game and distractions are a huge problems for me.... Like people watching me, or having my opponent smack talking...

I basically fall under pressure... any advice?

Take deep breathes, after the first match your nervousness will fade away with each match, trust me.
Also, dont look at the people as distractions, act like they're people you really want to impress. Show them something they've never seen before, make them enjoy your matches. YOUR'REin control when you're in a match, not them, so dont give them the power to distract you.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I'm going to a tournament this weekend....

I have a dam right problem keeping my head level during a game and distractions are a huge problems for me.... Like people watching me, or having my opponent smack talking...

I basically fall under pressure... any advice?

If your opponent is smack talking while you're playing, ask them to stop. If they don't, call a TO over and explain what's going on. You can possibly force a match from your opponent that way, and it would definitely get them to shut up. And like airgemini said, people watching your match are watching for a reason. Impress them, and when you do, you'll gain a lot of confidence for later matches.

 

[ShadowLink84]

How do I stop staring at ZSS' chest?
Question about the armor pieces that fall off from Samus in her ZSS form.
What would be the best method of seizing control? Or should I instead avoid the pieces all together?