~ Zelda Video and Critique Archive ~ (obselete thread/check stickies)

[Villi]

Hey all, I was looking through my replays and I found this replay from a day I was experimenting with Zelda's ledge pressure. This match kind of turned into a "How many different ways can you punish Marth's ledge hop" video, but I felt like I was positioned to eliminate many of his options most of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMmq-PHplNE&fmt=18

(If the "high quality" link doesn't work, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMmq-PHplNE)

Any pointers? Things I should have done differently or things I did that I shouldn't expect to work? What could Marth have done to beat me from the situations I was putting him in?

Also... Din's is quite good for ledge pressure. Yea, nay?

 

[Oh Snap]

A lot of missed grabs, but it's a very entertaining match.

I have a question...

is it harder to DI out of Zelda's d-tilt lock if the opponent is on the edge? (0:37 of Villi's vid)

 

[Villi]

It's probably scarier since you'd be getting pushed off the ledge. You can see him obviously DIing toward me which is the wrong way. I would have dtilted him more, but I thought he was at kill percent.

I really wanted to see what he did about dthrow... When I grabbed him off the ledge, I was pretty sure I could catch him landing with another dthrow cuz he air dodged a lot, but any other Marth would have fair'd me. I tripped instead though.

 

[Kaffei]

It's probably scarier since you'd be getting pushed off the ledge. You can see him obviously DIing toward me which is the wrong way. I would have dtilted him more, but I thought he was at kill percent.

I really wanted to see what he did about dthrow... When I grabbed him off the ledge, I was pretty sure I could catch him landing with another dthrow cuz he air dodged a lot, but any other Marth would have fair'd me. I tripped instead though.

Does Zelda's Dash Grab have invincibility frames? Look at Villi's video, 1:33

 

[Kaffei]

And How The Heck Did You Farores Cancel?

2:05

 

[Villi]

Does Zelda's Dash Grab have invincibility frames? Look at Villi's video, 1:33

I just ran passed the hitbox by luck. Also... I FW cancel by watching the sundial.

 

[Kaffei]

I just ran passed the hitbox by luck. Also... I FW cancel by watching the sundial.

Sundial? O.O HUH

 

[Villi]

Just stand a little bit away from it. If you're having trouble finding a place, just walk to the ledge and go into your teetering animation. Teleport full FW distance, take a step, and then FW back to the ledge. There you go, memorize spacing. Watch the sundial.

 

[-Mars-]

Mocha, I got nothing but respect for you man, your a class act.

Villi, I seen a couple opportunities where you could have punished with a bair or fair, especially one time when the Marth used Dancing Blade with you behind him. It certainly was an enjoyable match to watch though.

I love all of the vids coming in, everyone keep em coming! lol.

Edit: Let me know if you guys don't like the template i'm using for the video headings and descriptions and such.

 

[Mocha19]

Yeah.. I haven't been active in smash or the boards for reasons revolving around a really bad depression and I happen to be in an EXTREMELY bad community here in Louisiana. I'm about to handle as much as I can right now though. Hopefully I'll be going to a different and more friendly community soon, though. And then I might come back and play more.

 

[Bandit]

Mocha, sorry to hear about your situation. I hope it all works out for you.

@Villi

The last tourney I was at there was someone talking about platform canceling, which is what you are doing with FW. I had a nice chat with them about Zelda "speeding up" by using this to speed up her air game as you can throw an aerial, it platform cancels, and immediately able to throw another aerial without lag. Her aerial game would be faster causing more kills.

I was told to just research it platform canceling on youtube, but I am at a slow connection all week so I can't see if there are any videos that may help.

 

[Villi]

Bandit, this is the vid on Platform canceling I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK16zTBzIQQ It's the only thing I could find.

If you can't watch, what happens is on stages with moving platforms like SV, Lylat, and YI, you can cancel your jump by landing on the platform. You have to jump through the platform while holding down and then perform an aerial or air dodge as you're passing through it. You'll immediately land on the platform and receive landing lag from the aerial (if it's a dair lag or air dodge you'll shield) or it'll auto-cancel (if it's anything else). If you let go of down as you're performing a c-stick aerial, you'll do a smash as you land.

I can definitely see the use for this in landing on platforms quickly to perform faster, higher, louder(?) aerials.

 

[Bandit]

Awesome find Villi! I hope to watch it this weekend on a faster connection. Hmm, it was actually Gonzo who I was talking to (Candy also plays in my region), so I guess I was talking to the right person. The tourney was pretty packed, otherwise he was going to show me on a spare tv and work on getting her game to be louder (I totally like this).

Louder Aerials/Smashes - This can be defined as a move that will result in the player yelling out in excitement towards his/her opponent in a taunting manner. Example - UAir your opponent and yell "LIFT OFF!" as they get launched to their death.

 

[-Mars-]

Updated the first post. Added NinjaLinks new vids, includiing the only video we have of Zelda on Norfair if you want to see how well she does there. Also includes more teleport cancel sexiness.

Also added SniperWorm's Zelda, he actually is pretty good and does well against the Snake he Brawls.

If you guys want anymore vids put up that aren't from 4-5 months ago, post them and i'll take a look.

 

[Bandit]

I have been trying to get my videos up, but I haven't seen JCaesar in 2 weeks and he has the vids. In there is a good fight on Norfair. Almost all should be against his ROB (his main). I should see him at some point this weekend, and our priority is to go through some of the matches we recorded to figure out which ones to post.

Also, just wanted to say good work on the thread so far.

 

[-Mars-]

I have been trying to get my videos up, but I haven't seen JCaesar in 2 weeks and he has the vids. In there is a good fight on Norfair. Almost all should be against his ROB (his main). I should see him at some point this weekend, and our priority is to go through some of the matches we recorded to figure out which ones to post.

Also, just wanted to say good work on the thread so far.

Great, I can't wait to see some of your Zelda. Thanks for the compliments as well .

I still haven't gotten more than two opinions on whether or not you guys want Sheik vids in the thread or not. If I don't get much more input, i'll just drop the whole idea.

 

[Villi]

WTF Why did the only video I posted where I got pwned make it into the OP? lawl @_@ Anyway, you can credit the other Zelda player as Maos.

 

[-Mars-]

WTF Why did the only video I posted where I got pwned make it into the OP? lawl @_@ Anyway, you can credit the other Zelda player as Maos.

Lol, I was just impressed by both players and it was a really good Zelda ditto. I'm also going to put up your vid vs. the Marth player and check out some of your other matches. I also subscribed to your youtube channel xD.

 

[Villi]

I was just a little embarrassed because I didn't expect any of them to be put up, but I'm not arguing. I just wanted to exchange ideas with other zelda mains if they had any.

 

[sniperworm]

Also added SniperWorm's Zelda, he actually is pretty good and does well against the Snake he Brawls.

You might want to hold off on that judgment until DM (eventually) posts the vid where I get screwed by WAR's Snake in the next round of the tournament...

 

[-Mars-]

You might want to hold off on that judgment until DM (eventually) posts the vid where I get screwed by WAR's Snake in the next round of the tournament...

Meh, Snake ***** Zelda. The fact that you can even compete against them in tournament with Zelda is enough for me. Your certainly not one of the best Zelda's, but it was front page material IMO.

edit: added a few more vids to the front page, a couple tournament matches for DarkMusician and a vid from Villi. Villi I need confirmation on whether or not the Marth match is WiFi.

Keep in mind that due to Zelda having a lack of players, some videos are on the front page that shouldn't be...........this will change as time goes on.

 

[Villi]

edit: added a few more vids to the front page, a couple tournament matches for DarkMusician and a vid from Villi. Villi I need confirmation on whether or not the Marth match is WiFi.

Yah, it's WiFi.

 

[Bandit]

I don't get why Snake "*****" Zelda at all. Her Dtilt is lovely in this match-up as it is faster and clanks with his ftilt and beats his mortar slide. Snake has no aerial that can answer an Usmash so every time he is in the air, damage racking time.

He breaks the Usmash by using nades to hit us both, but you can usually hit him with Uair/Fair/Bair if you know it will happen and do it before he can hit you.

He still has the advantage, but it is no way a ****-fest.

 

[-Mars-]

I don't get why Snake "*****" Zelda at all. Her Dtilt is lovely in this match-up as it is faster and clanks with his ftilt and beats his mortar slide. Snake has no aerial that can answer an Usmash so every time he is in the air, damage racking time.

He breaks the Usmash by using nades to hit us both, but you can usually hit him with Uair/Fair/Bair if you know it will happen and do it before he can hit you.

He still has the advantage, but it is no way a ****-fest.

I don't think you realize how fast Snake is. His ftilt comes out on frame 4 and his jab comes out on frame 3(I would argue his jab is more broken than his ftilt). Zelda's dtilt comes out on frame 5.......even his utilt almost outspeeds dtilt. Plus, dtilt is only coming out on frame 5 if you buffer it, that's why you can't use it to outspeed Snake.

He can also hit you out of usmash with a properly spaced bair. Snakes won't be above you much anyways, their dair gets beat out by most characters uairs and they know this. They'll do their little grenade-switching trick and airdodge into the ground. Granted, sometimes you can catch them with an usmash when they airdodge into the ground, but not often.

 

[Kataefi]

The only way you can beat a good snake is to literally space and spam FSmash the entire match. The last hit outranges his entire ground moveset. There's nothing he can do to get in range.

It's easier said than done though.

Just **** him during his recovery with LKs and spikes.

 

[Bandit]

So... if the Snake perfectly spaces a Bair he will beat Usmash... then don't let him. I don't say that to be smart, but I have never had a Snake do this to me before. I have no problem landing Usmash on them when they are above me. Also, when Dtilt has clanked with Ftilt, I have gotten out another dtilt prior to them ftilting. Maybe they are just surprised I clanked with them, and I was quicker to the button. 4th frame and 5th frame are **** close. If we push the buttons at the same time then he should win, but if you are aware it clanks and they aren't, then you win.

It still isn't ****. Zelda destroys his recovery (grab range, LK, Uair) making Dsmash great in the match.

 

[-Mars-]

So... if the Snake perfectly spaces a Bair he will beat Usmash... then don't let him. I don't say that to be smart, but I have never had a Snake do this to me before. I have no problem landing Usmash on them when they are above me. Also, when Dtilt has clanked with Ftilt, I have gotten out another dtilt prior to them ftilting. Maybe they are just surprised I clanked with them, and I was quicker to the button. 4th frame and 5th frame are **** close. If we push the buttons at the same time then he should win, but if you are aware it clanks and they aren't, then you win.

It still isn't ****. Zelda destroys his recovery (grab range, LK, Uair) making Dsmash great in the match.

It might not be a complete counter matchup, but Snake is definitely one of her worst matchups. You can properly DI dsmash and Snake can still recover high enough to prevent Zelda hitting him unless it's at really high percents and in that case dsmash would be killing anyways.

@ sniperworm- I added your matches against DarkMusician, pretty entertaining to watch. You got ***** pretty bad by WAR in those Snake matches, so I don't know whether or not you wnat them put up. You have some things you need to work on with both your Zelda and your Sheik including momentum-cancelling, proper DI, OoS options......etc. Your Sheik is ok....impressive use of DACUS, but you certainly need to use ftilt more in your game and cut down on usmash before kill percentages.

 

[Bandit]

Marsulas, I finally have those videos I promised against JCaesar's ROB.

Red Bandit (Zelda) vs JCaesar (ROB) on Castle Siege - Early in the video (around the 00:18 mark), you will see a nice Sweet Spot Combo. I have had a ton of success with Dair comboing into fairs and bairs, and this is just an example. Soft Spot Dair also works well too.
Red Bandit (Zelda) vs JCaesar (ROB) on Delfino - This is just a very hard fought match on a stage Zelda doesn't like at least part of the time. The ending is fantastic (ducking is God tier), and at 01:27 or so, you'll see a nice gyro kill.
Red Bandit (Zelda) vs JCaesar (ROB) on Norfair - This is a great example of how Norfair causes problems for ROB. Generally, I use Norfair a lot anyway as a CP, but it is not good for ROB. Remember to count the sweet spots on the first stock. At the 01:14 mark is a fun Dtilt ledge defense. 2:17 shows how to abuse the lava.
Red Bandit (Zelda) vs JCaesar (ROB) on Norfair - This is another good example of using Norfair against ROB. The only downside to this video is I SD at 0% on my 2nd stock. Other than that, it is a fantastic match, so I decided to post it anyway. 0:50 showing why you need to get off the stage and go after ROB.

Well, there you have it; my Zelda is finally out in the open. Hopefully, this provides some good ROB videos. We're going to be recording more often now, so I should have more videos up sooner rather than later. JCaesar will be hosting them all.

 

[MrEh]

Also make a mental note that any of Bowsers grab release shenanigans can be powershielded by Zelda.]

Just noticed this on the first page. Actually, Zelda can't powershield anything from Bowser's grab release if it's done properly.

I just screwed up a lot in my matches with DarkMusician. Attacks out of grab releases aren't buffered, so you need to have frame specific timing to do it. (It's still doable though.)

Not that it really matters. Zelda still ***** Bowser even with the grab release.

 

[-Mars-]

Just noticed this on the first page. Actually, Zelda can't powershield anything from Bowser's grab release if it's done properly.

I just screwed up a lot in my matches with DarkMusician. Attacks out of grab releases aren't buffered, so you need to have frame specific timing to do it. (It's still doable though.)

Not that it really matters. Zelda still ***** Bowser even with the grab release.

Thank you, very informative post........i'll edit the front page for accuracy. Does Bowser only have grab release to ftilt on Zelda or does he have other moves that are wuick enough?

@ RedBandit- great! I look forward to viewing your Zelda, i'm going to watch the vids right now and i'll comment on them sometime tomorrow.

 

[MrEh]

Thank you, very informative post........i'll edit the front page for accuracy. Does Bowser only have grab release to ftilt on Zelda or does he have other moves that are quick enough?

Zelda is one of the characters in the game where grab releases don't work all that well on. Granted, they do work, but Bowser can't do as many things to Zelda as he can to someone like Meta or ROB. Zelda slides pretty far for some reason. Anyway, here's what Bowser can do to Zelda out of a grab release....

1. Grab her again. As long as Zelda keeps getting ground releases, Bowser can do a very limited changrab on her. It's not really the best idea though, since the damage is kind of mediocre. It looks funny though.

2. Ftilt works. Not much to say here. You might be able to escape this with that extra inch crap that those Ness players like using.

3. Jabs work as well. All in all, it's not that impressive, since Jabs work on nearly everyone out of a grab release.

4,. The Klaw works. This is probably the best option to do out of a grab release. The Klaw does some good damage, and it's not all that difficult to do. (I admit, I should be using it more.) Since it's a grab, shielding it will be useless, so that makes it pretty annoying. Spot dodging would probably be a better way to avoid it if the Bowser player's timing is off. Follow it up with a Dsmash if you manage to dodge it. (If his timing is perfect though, Zelda's gonna eat up 18%. )

5. If Zelda jumps out of Bowser's grab, he can get a free Fair on her. Not the best move ever, but it's always nice to be able to tack on a bit more damage.


And...I think that's it. The only thing that you realisticly need to look out for is the Klaw. Fortunately, Bowser can't do anything really outrageous to Zelda out of a grab, unlike characters like Jigglypuff and Wario. Bowser can get a free Uair on Jigglypuff, and a free Fsmash against Wario. Yes, an effing Fsmash.

 

[sniperworm]

@ sniperworm- I added your matches against DarkMusician, pretty entertaining to watch. You got ***** pretty bad by WAR in those Snake matches, so I don't know whether or not you wnat them put up. You have some things you need to work on with both your Zelda and your Sheik including momentum-cancelling, proper DI, OoS options......etc. Your Sheik is ok....impressive use of DACUS, but you certainly need to use ftilt more in your game and cut down on usmash before kill percentages.

Ha, you can add the ones versus WAR if you want. I've got no problem with you posting vids of me getting smashed, he is much better than me after all. I'm not sure if it would be of any use for Zelda players to watch that match though.

As far as me needing work, yeah I definitely do. I've always had trouble with DI (I don't react fast enough) and correctly executing OoS stuff (same problem). And my Sheik definitely does need to Ftilt more, everyone tells me that (you know it's bad when I typically Ftilt more with Zelda than with Sheik).

Maybe I'll practice Brawl before next tournament instead of staying up all night playing Tales of Symphonia, Custom Robo, and Soul Calibur II.

 

[-Mars-]

@ Red Bandit

1st match- Wow, Caesar is good, he has excellent spacing. That dair to bair sweetspot combo was pure win. At 0:44 you couldn't have used Naryus any better to bring the momentum in your favor, great job. At 0:50 you missed an excellent chance for an OoS bair. Try not to get baited into Naryus so much. At 2:20 you had a spike opportunity. Nice sweetspot fair on your return to the stage, too bad you didn't have a good angle to make it back to the ledge. Interesting that you would SH a dair. Good match, both players played well.

2nd match- Great use of ftilt to set up into usmash. You almost got the uair to connect, great job by Caesar not to airdodge to early. The struggle in the water was hilarious. Naryus payed off for you and you got a KO....very nice. Excellent use of Dins as he was trying to hit you from under Delfinos, then you sweetsopt KO him after he stumbles on the platform......too good. Ducking ftw! Another great match.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Riot got a friendly(sadly that's all) recorded at his last tourney. That Snake usually places better when he goes to tourneys, so he's not a bad player at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eag5QQq0UIM

And Slash isn't great, and Riot does silly stuff to extend a few matches, but here's his channel if you might want it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/GodAtHand

It made me sad that mah bud wasn't in here. Not much videos of him but he always places pretty well and he's been getting alot of top players in the Mass/Mainemont Hampshire area to realize how good/dangerous Zelda can be.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Hey, could I add some of my Zelda videos to this. I know I just started her but I think I did pretty good. But I'll let you be the judge of that and see if it is worthy.

Vs Sheik (JigglyZelda003)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiPKQZFDOjY&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Vs JigglyPuff (JigglyZelda0030
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR72JWJVTxE&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Vs Fox: (JigglyZelda003)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IdsS0bdlVo&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Vs Peach: (Pan2N)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Kv3ttMRjA&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Vs Dk: (Pan2N)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNuWf2aloco&feature=channel_page&fmt=18
Vs DK: ????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU0FWLoP6Bk&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Vs Pit: (Pan2N)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTFrpYFhbU0&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Vs Zero Suit Samus: ?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7WIQSlM1qs&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

These are all wifi.

 

[Bandit]

@ Red Bandit
Ducking ftw!

JCaesar's reaction to me ducking during a match:

"Did you just duck my gyro? Who the hell ducks? No one ducks!"

If Zelda crawled, I would move only in crouch. She'd be a freakin' tank of huge multi-hit boxes and priority with Dtilt.

I appreciate all the comments and suggestions as I know there are things I need to improve on. OoS Bair is one I really need to incorporate more, especially since I am focusing a lot on getting her aerial game much more into play. Hopefully, I'll get some more vids recorded (perhaps against other players/characters) and get them up here.

 

[GodAtHand]

I have a match against someone who isn't terrible for once.
It was a weird match since I don't ever play against snakes... but I learned a lot. especially about the range of those dam nades..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eag5QQq0UIM

 

[-Mars-]

I have a match against someone who isn't terrible for once.
It was a weird match since I don't ever play against snakes... but I learned a lot. especially about the range of those dam nades..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eag5QQq0UIM

Pretty nice Zelda, you understand how to approach the Snake matchup. One thing............bair OoS, I don't know why Zelda players aren't using this. It's probably her best kill option and people are neglecting it.

@ DarkPeach- i'll look through all of your vids and see if any of them should go up on the front page. You do have an interesting style that's unique so some of them will probably be up.

@MdrnDayMercutio- thanks, i'll definitely look into GodAtHands youtube channel. If I remember correctly I think i've seen Slash play vs. Deva's Link?

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

No. That has to be a different Slash. This is a local friend of Riot's, and he's only been to a few tourneys.

 

[Villi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cem97Cmn-RI