imdavid
Smash Journeyman
down smash is now called the drephen smash
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Zelda+Sheik Matchup Listing
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
clowsui
Smash Legend
No smart person spams the Angel Ring because it is punishable. I was responding to the question how is Pit favorable but if you really want me to tell you how to beat the Angel Ring then I will give you the secrets RIGHT here:
Roll behind him, spotdodge to bait an attack, if he stays there downsmash if he doesn't throw needles or run and grab him or dash attack him
Jump over him turn around needles, jump over him air dodge to bait a utilt or usmash then needles, grab or dsmash depending on how close you are - you could also fsmash if he was charging the usmash
If you get caught just DI away, run away, charge some needles and wait for him to spam arrows, in which you can just spot dodge -> roll towards him and just wait for him to Angel Ring and respond by rolling behind him and doing the things I mentioned above
Also LOL at choknater
By Drephen Styling I meant Spot dodge times x where 0<x<infinity -> downsmash
But yeah sure let's go and say that Drephen Smashing means Down Smash XD
Remember: every time you don't charge a Downsmash when your opponent is asleep or shieldbroken, a MaNg0 feels sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0LSZBpens4
Roll behind him, spotdodge to bait an attack, if he stays there downsmash if he doesn't throw needles or run and grab him or dash attack him
Jump over him turn around needles, jump over him air dodge to bait a utilt or usmash then needles, grab or dsmash depending on how close you are - you could also fsmash if he was charging the usmash
If you get caught just DI away, run away, charge some needles and wait for him to spam arrows, in which you can just spot dodge -> roll towards him and just wait for him to Angel Ring and respond by rolling behind him and doing the things I mentioned above
Also LOL at choknater
By Drephen Styling I meant Spot dodge times x where 0<x<infinity -> downsmash
But yeah sure let's go and say that Drephen Smashing means Down Smash XD
Remember: every time you don't charge a Downsmash when your opponent is asleep or shieldbroken, a MaNg0 feels sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0LSZBpens4
ADHD
Smash Hero
Isn't it impossible to roll around? Don't you get caught in it?
clowsui
Smash Legend
No, you have invincibility frames when you roll I'm pretty sure
popsofctown
Smash Champion
Is Drephen a really good player?
ADHD
Smash Hero
That couldn't be right, Imdavid your bro is a pit mainer, can you confirm this? I swear you told me that you can only roll around it during the beginning of the angel ring.
...Lol this thread has gotten so off topic
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Not really since we are talking about match ups
Anyways rolling does give you invincibility frames but not for the entire roll.
At the very beginning and end while you still in the rolling animation you can get hit.
Squidster
Smash Ace
@chrome, you can roll when he first starts the attack very easily since he rockets forward.
Not sure you can roll while its already out but you can just wait -> dash grab. or wait -> BOOSTSMASH *twitch* Or just needles.... everyone loves needles.
Yes drephen is the best sheik in smash64, melee, and brawl.
Either way the halo is no game-winning move. It'll do a little dmg but if your quick with the DI it wont do much. Its very punishable when he misses.
Pit is all arrows (waits for pit main to show up and yell). Sheik is good at avoiding arrows cause shes ridiculously fast and jumps high.
Pit has trouble playing aggresively. He must sit back, wait for you to approach, and punish accordingly. Be precise in your assault and he can't do much.
This is especially true for his kill moves. Dsmash and Fsmash are dreadfully predictable and he must stand still to do them. Too easy to avoid, just make sure you space yourself correctly.
His Bair is alright but it has a limited hit box. Besides, sheik can actually beat pit in the air.
Not sure you can roll while its already out but you can just wait -> dash grab. or wait -> BOOSTSMASH *twitch* Or just needles.... everyone loves needles.
Yes drephen is the best sheik in smash64, melee, and brawl.
Either way the halo is no game-winning move. It'll do a little dmg but if your quick with the DI it wont do much. Its very punishable when he misses.
Pit is all arrows (waits for pit main to show up and yell). Sheik is good at avoiding arrows cause shes ridiculously fast and jumps high.
Pit has trouble playing aggresively. He must sit back, wait for you to approach, and punish accordingly. Be precise in your assault and he can't do much.
This is especially true for his kill moves. Dsmash and Fsmash are dreadfully predictable and he must stand still to do them. Too easy to avoid, just make sure you space yourself correctly.
His Bair is alright but it has a limited hit box. Besides, sheik can actually beat pit in the air.
imdavid
Smash Journeyman
yah, you can only roll around it when he starts the animation because he moves forward, once he is stationary you can't roll around it you can just stand stilll and charge needles until he's done and instant 18% ^^
ADHD
Smash Hero
Yeah, but its still ****ing annoying because it eliminates sheik's approaches from forward.
Anyway, drephen's sheik was amazing in 64. Bair to zair combo just PWNED!
How about that jigglypuff, because a good one can easily ruin a sheik's life offstage.
imdavid
Smash Journeyman
i hate jiggs off stage xD chromey's jigg owns me a lot, uh... but i bust the EC lag card!
Squidster
Smash Ace
I don't think it ruins sheik approach... just forces you play all spacey rather aggressive... which i like.
Jigs! Similar to kirby in that edgeguarding her sucks. Tilt locking isn't possible... I tend to play defensive and needle camp jiggs.
Dsmash and needles alone force jiggs to be careful about how she plays. Approach from the air with caution. Another one that i like using Bair near the ground with. Wait for her floaty assault to end and as she lands, hop Bair -> Fsmash (or Dsmash.)
Switch to zelda at 80%! early early early! Seriously i've changed at like 60%, gotten dins -> Fsmash and got the kill. Lightest character in the game.
The thing about jiggs is if you can get the kill early, shes no problem. But a spacey jiggs is tough to land a solid hit on.
Jigs! Similar to kirby in that edgeguarding her sucks. Tilt locking isn't possible... I tend to play defensive and needle camp jiggs.
Dsmash and needles alone force jiggs to be careful about how she plays. Approach from the air with caution. Another one that i like using Bair near the ground with. Wait for her floaty assault to end and as she lands, hop Bair -> Fsmash (or Dsmash.)
Switch to zelda at 80%! early early early! Seriously i've changed at like 60%, gotten dins -> Fsmash and got the kill. Lightest character in the game.
The thing about jiggs is if you can get the kill early, shes no problem. But a spacey jiggs is tough to land a solid hit on.
Squidster
Smash Ace
Lets talk about LUIGI!
Luigi pretty much owns the sky as far as priority goes. If he hits Nair it means you have to back off.
He can't really be effectively tilt locked either... *checks thread* 2 hit at 40%... not so good
However, he's kind of slow and has a crappy projectile. He CAN be shield grabbed out of most approaches. If you want to play agressively make sure you don't run into his areals. Don't get ambitious about combos, take your couple hits then walk away.
His cyclone can be annoying because it has ridiculous priority, but you can just shield it and punish. Charge your needles when you can and when he misses a cyclone, unleash your 18% projectile!
Zelda is fantastic vs luigi. Nothing out prioritizes zelda's up smash! You can camp outside his crappy projectile's range and keep his approaches away with smashes or tilts. You can go for areals if the opportunity presents itself but just keeping a safe distance with dins and smashes works well.
Luigi pretty much owns the sky as far as priority goes. If he hits Nair it means you have to back off.
He can't really be effectively tilt locked either... *checks thread* 2 hit at 40%... not so good
However, he's kind of slow and has a crappy projectile. He CAN be shield grabbed out of most approaches. If you want to play agressively make sure you don't run into his areals. Don't get ambitious about combos, take your couple hits then walk away.
His cyclone can be annoying because it has ridiculous priority, but you can just shield it and punish. Charge your needles when you can and when he misses a cyclone, unleash your 18% projectile!
Zelda is fantastic vs luigi. Nothing out prioritizes zelda's up smash! You can camp outside his crappy projectile's range and keep his approaches away with smashes or tilts. You can go for areals if the opportunity presents itself but just keeping a safe distance with dins and smashes works well.
Yuna-Maria
Smash Ace
Alright, I made a thread that I guess should be closed. Sorry, I came over here from the Samus forums when I decided to switch mains and there's a thread for each of Samus's worst matchups, or some of them anyway.
For some reason, no fighter in the game gives my Sheik more trouble than Luigi. I can't stand this guy. It seems like I have to work my butt off to do damage that's pocket lint to him, and even if I get him to 150% or more, he's got me at sixty so LOL FIRE PUNCH ITSA ME WEEGEE.
....Screw that guy.
EDIT: So I should use Zelda against him? Hmm. Never thought of that. I'll give it a shot.
For some reason, no fighter in the game gives my Sheik more trouble than Luigi. I can't stand this guy. It seems like I have to work my butt off to do damage that's pocket lint to him, and even if I get him to 150% or more, he's got me at sixty so LOL FIRE PUNCH ITSA ME WEEGEE.
....Screw that guy.
EDIT: So I should use Zelda against him? Hmm. Never thought of that. I'll give it a shot.
Squidster
Smash Ace
Don't just use zelda, i like to use both in my game but don't be afraid to switch early.
Needles can still be effective vs luigi, and watching how you approach from the air can go a long way.
On a side note, you should think about switching to zelda whenever your opponent reaches 100%. Dsmash -> change is relatively safe and an opponent who is over 100% will be afraid of any zelda who has all fresh moves.
Usmash is the easier move to hit with ever and its a definite kill. Din's fire can kill if they are high enough, Dsmash is really quick and has a really low trajectory, and Fsmash has ridiculous range.
Needles can still be effective vs luigi, and watching how you approach from the air can go a long way.
On a side note, you should think about switching to zelda whenever your opponent reaches 100%. Dsmash -> change is relatively safe and an opponent who is over 100% will be afraid of any zelda who has all fresh moves.
Usmash is the easier move to hit with ever and its a definite kill. Din's fire can kill if they are high enough, Dsmash is really quick and has a really low trajectory, and Fsmash has ridiculous range.
Admittedly, I've never had much trouble with Luigi. You just have to move really fast, poke with quick moves, and keep in mind that he'll always outprioritize you in a clash situation. Needles can mess up his approach too.
I dunno, I haven't played much in the way of Falcos... They can get ftilt locked and if you force them to recover with Up+B then it's really easy to edgeguard, though.
Squidster
Smash Ace
Don't go on final destination.
Sit on platforms.
Ftilt a lot.
Sit on platforms.
Ftilt a lot.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Haha... Have you ever heard of his six+ utilts in a row on sheik ?
Cobra
Smash Journeyman
...eh, Luigi is fast, but you just have to avoid engaging him in the air. Be smart and hit him when you can, and if you can get a FTilt to an NAir or FAir then go for it. Personally, I like to use a whole hell of a lot of shield grabbing vs Lugi because it seems like most of the time with his quick moves he'll be attacking into you. And if he's not...pelt him with needles and make him come into a shield grab. :-p
A lot of Luigi's specials leave him somewhat open, so be ready to rush in and capitalize, but watch out and try not to attack into his shield to often. If he perfect sheilds it, he'll shield drop to an Up+B and probably kill you.
His projectiles aren't crappy... they are slow moving and hard to approach though. Zelda is a hard match up for him just because of her smashes. upsmash particularity makes a luigi approach hard. Tornado is all he has on her as far as a fast means to move in anything else is very easy to read and react to.
Also for the record dins fire is not spamable offline. Very easy to read and avoid once you play her a few times.
Squidster
Smash Ace
Din's fire is not as EFFECTIVELY offline.
Its definitely spammable
I don't spam din's fire with the thought "i'm now going to do 60% dmg." That happens offline, but its not what i aim for. Its just there to put pressure on them and force them to approach.
Its definitely spammable
I don't spam din's fire with the thought "i'm now going to do 60% dmg." That happens offline, but its not what i aim for. Its just there to put pressure on them and force them to approach.
Din's is a good projectile much better than melee's. But it still has the same flaws. Easy to dodge on reaction and it is impossible for Zelda to gain anything from that dodge. But if we want to continue this debate with should probably take it to the Zelda boards.
What are your (your covering the whole of the sheik community's) thoughts on the sheik versus Wario match up? he is similar to Luigi in that he has mildly quick high priority moves but unlike Luigi a well played Wario is very difficult to shield grab just because of how well he can space.
What are your (your covering the whole of the sheik community's) thoughts on the sheik versus Wario match up? he is similar to Luigi in that he has mildly quick high priority moves but unlike Luigi a well played Wario is very difficult to shield grab just because of how well he can space.
a lot of the characters taht give sheik minor trouble can be made less troublesome through a bit of back air camping so you can get in your tilts... that move has really good range and actually has priority as well.
a lot of the characters not all of teh characters.
luigi doesn't really have an answer for back airs from sheik, but it's hard to filt combo him (he can neutral you out) and it's hard to land certain moves in general just because of his ridiculous priority and he can combo you a lot when HE is close... back air keeps him away gives you space you can get other moves in there every so often but the back air really messes up his approach game
a lot of the characters not all of teh characters.
luigi doesn't really have an answer for back airs from sheik, but it's hard to filt combo him (he can neutral you out) and it's hard to land certain moves in general just because of his ridiculous priority and he can combo you a lot when HE is close... back air keeps him away gives you space you can get other moves in there every so often but the back air really messes up his approach game
ADHD
Smash Hero
Basically against luigi, you cannot let the green man get near you if he is planning to do something. Run away and poke, thats all I can do honestly...
Against Luigi, I pick Marth because it makes the matchup a lot simpler. : P
If I'm Sheik, though, I just keep in mind that he has nuts priority but still punishable attacks.
If I'm Sheik, though, I just keep in mind that he has nuts priority but still punishable attacks.
ADHD
Smash Hero
I want to counterpick meta, but nobody is a real counter against him, sakurai designed him way to good out of sellfishness...
Snakeee
Smash Master
9-1 match ups here seem to be a bit much. And I actually have trouble against Ike with Sheik...though I haven't played the match up that much But otherwise good thread.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Well Ike is quite slow and has no good approaches.
The only way an Ike can win is if he plays defensively, which Sheik can easily force them to become offensive by needle camping.
Basically if you camp with Sheik and strike when Ike makes a opening you can easily three stock even the best of Ikes.
Once I realize this I stop losing to Ike completely.
Snakeee
Smash Master
I haven't played a serious match with Sheik vs. Ike....I figured it was because of needle camping though, but thanks for clearing that up. Man that's not good for the whole "Brawl is all about camping argument" -_-
I have a random question.
I've figured that Snake gets KO'd a lot more quickly by Zelda than by Sheik. But, if I KO Snake like this, does it count as a Zelda KO?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPIk2cz8fAE
I've figured that Snake gets KO'd a lot more quickly by Zelda than by Sheik. But, if I KO Snake like this, does it count as a Zelda KO?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPIk2cz8fAE
imdavid
Smash Journeyman
yeah since you touched him last with zelda >.< nice ko though ;]
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Nah, Ike has a lot of openings so you won’t be camping for very long.
Most of the times I throw like 2 needles before the try to reach me though the air.
Which Ikes always use either the nair or the fair.
If it's the nair, shield and wait for the AAA combo, side stepping the last part. If they cancel the AA into a grab book woop he threw you.
Ike is so fat he can't follow any of his throws and if he starts constantly AA into grab then just side step the grab.
If he does the Fair just side step it and punish him for using such a crappy attack.
There you go; if you follow this by the letter you should do extremely well against any Ike.
By the way if the Ike get's smart and start to approach by the ground only just charge up your needles and look out for the dash attack and even if he mind games you and you get grabbed laugh once again at how useless his grab really is as it doesn’t combo into anything and is impossible for Ike to follow it up in any way.
Snakeee
Smash Master
Thanks for the advice good stuff. It's so simply yet sounds effective. The problem was I play the complete opposite I'm more of an aggressive in your face player, but I can play defensively and/or campy if I have to (though I definitely don't enjoy it as much). Anyway, I might just keep using ZSS for the match up, but if it's really as **** as you guys say I'll consider Sheik.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Well i'm gonna go back to luigi just to spoil this great ike discussion
He can utilt you 7 times in a row up to a nair, thats easily 60% damage, then he can KO you if you simply get jabbed to up b, or fsmash. No fun.
He can utilt you 7 times in a row up to a nair, thats easily 60% damage, then he can KO you if you simply get jabbed to up b, or fsmash. No fun.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I won’t lie that sounds pretty gay
If this is indeed escapable then I need to start fighting Luigi player immediately so I can get some mental calluses which will make fighting him in future tournament not as painful.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Eh, like ankoku said, just go martha or meta and spayer teh payne
Just don't be stupid in your approach. Luigi's got a ton of priority but all of his attacks and his general lack of maneuverability in everything except Down+B makes him decently easy to punish if he isn't smart. Just remember that his upsmash will out-prioritize your bair LOL.