Zelda is the Worst Character in the Game.

[-Mars-]

Dead serious about this. As much as I love her and i'm still playing her......she's just that bad. I've come to realize more and more how important mobility is in this game and she has none. Not only is her ground speed bad, she also has very few mixup options and this is critically important when facing characters that are superior to her. Her lack of a grab game is also very detrimental to her game.........if you just learn the timing for her moves your pretty much safe in your shield the majority of the game against her as her grab speed is atrocious. No aerial priority is very bad as well as you're forced to maintain a grounded game and with the lack of a grab game.....she's very one dimensional.

If you get a sizeable lead on Zelda it is incredibly easy to time her out. She gets camped to death by any character with a decent camping game and outcamped by any character with good mobility(MK, Marth, Sheik, Wario, Wolf, Sonic, Peach etc.)

Bad MU's pretty much across the board, she still has a few manageable MU's where you can attempt to use her, but if your opponent understands Zelda it's still simple to just zone her. Zelda has to take too many risks to accumulate any damage at all and while a few of those may pay off, a few of them won't and being offstage is NOT where you want to be as Zelda. Her recovery has also got to be one of the worst in the game. To add to her terrible recovery is the fact that she is really light and has a bad momentum cancel.

I swear no other character has as many wasted moveslots. Ftilt, Utilt, Transform, Naryu's, and Dins are all awful moves that really add nothing to her game. Well, transform but that doesn't add anything specifically to the Zelda metagame.

Her one saving grace is dtilt which is her best tactical move, yet even that move is extremely hard to land and even moreso at KO percents where it actually becomes the most useful.

Thoughts?

 

[KayLo!]

She's bad (worse than what the current tier list suggests), but she's not the worst.

No johns, play smarter. Yeah, she has a lot of wasted move slots, so just don't use those moves. Yeah, she's one-dimensional, so make less mistakes and really be on your punishment game. You can still mix it up, you just have to be **** sure of what you're doing.

If you really think Zelda is worse than characters like Ganon, Link, and Jiggs..... *facepalmfacepalmfacepalm*

 

[-Mars-]

She's bad (worse than what the current tier list suggests), but she's not the worst.

No johns, play smarter. Yeah, she has a lot of wasted move slots, so just don't use those moves. Yeah, she's one-dimensional, so make less mistakes and really be on your punishment game. You can still mix it up, you just have to be **** sure of what you're doing.

If you really think Zelda is worse than characters like Ganon, Link, and Jiggs..... *facepalmfacepalmfacepalm*

I'm not johning so much as just admitting that she's the worst charcater in the game and realizing how hard it is for me to win.

All the wasted moveslots equals fewer and fewer options which is the point I was getting at.

Ganon- While having overall worse MU's than Zelda does, he has better tourny results and wins to his name than Zelda does. You always hear about a **** Ganon beating such and such good player every once in a while but never a Zelda. He has better mix-up options than Zelda, a tech chase, and the most power in the game. He also has somewhat of a grab and aerial game and imo has better mobility than Zelda.

Link- Are you serious? I don't even think I really need to list off why Link is better.

Jiggs- Maybe but Jiggs really is a solid character design, she just is saddled with the lightest weight in the game.

 

[KayLo!]

Link would be better if he wasn't gimptastic, imo. Maybe I feel overly confident about being able to gimp him since I main Pikachu, but an off-stage Link is 9/10 a dead Link in my book. (CG > edgeguard, gg.)

Ganon has more tourney rep because he's ****ing Ganon. How many seriously competitive dudes are gonna play Zelda? -_- There are only so many gay guys out there, even in the Smash scene. (I'm semi-serious about that.)

Also note that Ganon lacks a lot of the disjoint Zelda has, and although Din's is retardedly bad as a camping tool, at least she has a projectile. I'd argue that although Ganon is more powerful, Zelda can kill almost as early -- and neither of them have an easy time landing their KO moves, tech chase or no tech chase.

I do agree that Zelda is pretty ****ing bad. I think she should move down quite a few spots on the tier list, and she is ultimately a garb character. And let's be honest: once you're trash tier, arguing about who's more trash than who is pointless.

But she doesn't get ***** by CGs and other nonsense like Ganon/Falcon do.

Her recovery sucks, but she doesn't fall like a rock and half the time have zero chance of making it back (Link/Ganon)..... if you make smart choices and don't completely **** up, she's not terribly gimpable except vs. characters like MK who you have no business using her against in the first place.

Her defensive game is solid. Her offense is terrible, but if you're really on point defensively and have your shield skills down (for projectile bull****), she's a veritable fortress against a lot of characters.

Maybe I'm biased because I generally use Zelda for what I feel she's good for, but I don't see her being as completely useless as the real bottom tiers are.

EDIT: Link is also completely outshone by TL. Which probably contributes to his pretty much nonexistent tourney rep.

EDIT #2: I also forgot to mention that Ganon is made completely and utterly unviable by a couple of characters. Besides Olimar (arguably), Zelda has no MUs that're THAT bad.

 

[-Mars-]

For the record I am 100% straight in case there was ever any doubt to anyone out there<_<.

Even with all of the bad qualities on his recovery Link still has options on his recovery. Say he DI's up and diagonal towards the blastzone. Pulls a bomb while not fastfalling. Character comes out to edgeguard him, he throws his rang. If he's still not making it back he can either up b and wait for the bomb to explode or throw the bomb up and up b into the bomb. He also has his zair so he can quickly snap to the ledge and survive at like 200% if he DI's down on downward trajectories.

What can Zelda do on her recovery? Maybe use Naryu's? lol.

Ganon has disjoints on his dtilt, fair, fsmash, and usmash....his recovery is worse but I really feel like he stands more of an chance in a tournament environment simply due to his mixups, better approach game, and his tech chase leads into guaranteed kills and while Zelda's dtilt can......half the time I have my opponents DI out of my usmash<_<.

 

[WickedDeceit]

Warning off topic post.

For the record I am 100% straight in case there was ever any doubt to anyone out there<_<.

****.

 

[KayLo!]

Use utilt instead. If they try to airdodge, they ain't gettin out (except Pit -- he's always a ***** about getting out of usmash).

Anyways, we can compare the three forever (Zelda/Ganon/Link, I mean), but imo, Ganon, Link, Jiggs, and Falcon are less suited to the tournament environment than Zelda.

I've seen some really good Links, but from what I've experienced, he has even less rep than Zelda..... TL is better in pretty much every way, Link does realistically get gimped by a lot of characters, and the fact that he falls so fast means that he gets CG'd and combo'd very easily.

For Ganon, someone can just CP DDD or ICs, and he's instantly unviable. Plus his recovery is mcgarbgarb, and he also gets CG/combo *****.

Jiggs is too light, and besides Rest, her other KO moves (fair, dash attack..... am I missing any?) are wtfeasy to see coming. She just suffers from dying too early and potentially not being able to kill.

Falcon is Falcon. He's got speed and a few nifty things going for him, but he also gets CG *****, and his moveset ridiculously lacks priority. He gets beaten by everything.

I don't see Zelda having a harder time competing in a standard tournament environment compared to them. Then again, I'm in PA/NJ where we have a ****ton of MKs, Snakes, and (maybe most relevant to this discussion) DDDs, so maybe that's just my region.

 

[-Mars-]

Use utilt instead. If they try to airdodge, they ain't gettin out (except Pit -- he's always a ***** about getting out of usmash).

Anyways, we can compare the three forever (Zelda/Ganon/Link, I mean), but imo, Ganon, Link, Jiggs, and Falcon are less suited to the tournament environment than Zelda.

I've seen some really good Links, but from what I've experienced, he has even less rep than Zelda..... TL is better in pretty much every way, Link does realistically get gimped by a lot of characters, and the fact that he falls so fast means that he gets CG'd and combo'd very easily.

Legan, Deva, Izaw, Lawz, Kirin Blaze........Link's getting WAY more rep than Zelda. He does fall fast and gets CG'ed and whatnot.......but he has bombs. I honestly can't tell if you've ever watched vids of a top caliber Link??

For Ganon, someone can just CP DDD or ICs, and he's instantly unviable. Plus his recovery is mcgarbgarb, and he also gets CG/combo *****.

For Zelda, someone can just CP Olimar or G&W, and she's instantly unviable, her recovery is mcgarbgarb ya kno??

Course Ganon gets combo'ed, one of the main reason's he's better than Zelda is unlike her moves that puts her in no position to followup, Ganon's moves all put him in a position to start some devestating strings until high percentages at which that point most of his moveset is close to KO'ing.

Jiggs is too light, and besides Rest, her other KO moves (fair, dash attack..... am I missing any?) are wtfeasy to see coming. She just suffers from dying too early and potentially not being able to kill.

Lol you like described Zelda exactly in this sentence.

Jiggs can actually grab people, recover, bait opponents, gimp people......things Zelda really can't do.

Falcon is Falcon. He's got speed and a few nifty things going for him, but he also gets CG *****, and his moveset ridiculously lacks priority. He gets beaten by everything.

Yea your listing reasons why he's bad but you're ignoring his mobility. Wario lacks priority yet he has MOBILITY which allows him to compensate for his lack of priority. Falcon to a much lesser extent but of course that's why he's one of the worst characters.

Don't forget that he's one of the heaviest characters in the game so he has survivability. He has better mobility and survivability than Zelda does.....making him a more viable character.

I don't see Zelda having a harder time competing in a standard tournament environment compared to them. Then again, I'm in PA/NJ where we have a ****ton of MKs, Snakes, and (maybe most relevant to this discussion) DDDs, so maybe that's just my region.

Ok seriously like everytime you debate with me you drop the "region" word like you're trying to hint at my credibility or something. Lol what region doesn't have a ****ton of MKs, Snakes, and the like?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Dead serious about this. As much as I love her and i'm still playing her......she's just that bad. I've come to realize more and more how important mobility is in this game and she has none. Not only is her ground speed bad, she also has very few mixup options and this is critically important when facing characters that are superior to her. Her lack of a grab game is also very detrimental to her game.........if you just learn the timing for her moves your pretty much safe in your shield the majority of the game against her as her grab speed is atrocious. No aerial priority is very bad as well as you're forced to maintain a grounded game and with the lack of a grab game.....she's very one dimensional.

If you get a sizeable lead on Zelda it is incredibly easy to time her out. She gets camped to death by any character with a decent camping game and outcamped by any character with good mobility(MK, Marth, Sheik, Wario, Wolf, Sonic, Peach etc.)

Bad MU's pretty much across the board, she still has a few manageable MU's where you can attempt to use her, but if your opponent understands Zelda it's still simple to just zone her. Zelda has to take too many risks to accumulate any damage at all and while a few of those may pay off, a few of them won't and being offstage is NOT where you want to be as Zelda. Her recovery has also got to be one of the worst in the game. To add to her terrible recovery is the fact that she is really light and has a bad momentum cancel.

I swear no other character has as many wasted moveslots. Ftilt, Utilt, Transform, Naryu's, and Dins are all awful moves that really add nothing to her game. Well, transform but that doesn't add anything specifically to the Zelda metagame.

Her one saving grace is dtilt which is her best tactical move, yet even that move is extremely hard to land and even moreso at KO percents where it actually becomes the most useful.

Thoughts?

Ftilt and Utilt are awesome.

Who cares anyway? Why even post something as stupid as this? We all know she's a bad character, although she isn't as bad as you are making her out to be.

Her recovery isn't that bad either. A terrible recovery is Ivydorf's Up B. Not Zelda's Up B.

Her recovery isn't great, but it's much better than others.

Zelda is a bad character, but she isn't the worst. If she was the worst, she'd be at the bottom of the tier list. Where is she? D tier. Will she go down? Probably. Will she go to the bottom of the tier list? No.

 

[KayLo!]

There's no reason to debate the rest (rofl @half of your points, tho), but:

Ok seriously like everytime you debate with me you drop the "region" word like you're trying to hint at my credibility or something. Lol what region doesn't have a ****ton of MKs, Snakes, and the like?

Umm, that's not why I mentioned region at all. Rewind and re-read: I was pointing to the fact that, in particular, the number of DDDs in my region means that playing a character like Ganon, Falcon, or Link is laughable. (I mean, it's laughable anyway, but..... yeah.) You'll get CG > gimped. There's also an enormously high concentration of MKs in NJ, and while Zelda doesn't do well against MK at all, imo she does a bit better vs. him than Ganon and Falcon do. Dunno about Link vs. MK, but I imagine it's around as bad of a MU.

I didn't compare my region to your region, so there's no need to get butthurt when I said or implied nothing about you.

Anyways. This thread is pretty pointless, and I'm upset that I even started debating about it, tbqh, since you wanna have your negative shades on and act like Zelda has nothing going for her while every other bottom tier is wonderful.

Zelda is not the worst character in the game. Get better, stop crying.

 

[Kataefi]

Land those kicks mars!

 

[Half-Split Soul]

When the game first came out she was definite top tier and now she's suddenly ****ing worst? Why do people always go to the extremes?

 

[mountain_tiger]

I swear no other character has as many wasted moveslots. Ftilt, Utilt, Transform, Naryu's, and Dins are all awful moves that really add nothing to her game. Well, transform but that doesn't add anything specifically to the Zelda metagame.

FTilt, UTilt and Nayru's are not awful. FTilt is a decent anti-air move, and is kinda safe on block if you space really well, UTilt is a fast surprise kill move, and Nayru's is a solid defense move even if it doesn't work too well when it comes to reflecting.

Her one saving grace is dtilt which is her best tactical move, yet even that move is extremely hard to land and even moreso at KO percents where it actually becomes the most useful.

A 5-frame move with good horizontal range is hard to land?

Link would be better if he wasn't gimptastic, imo. Maybe I feel overly confident about being able to gimp him since I main Pikachu, but an off-stage Link is 9/10 a dead Link in my book. (CG > edgeguard, gg.)

No need for the IMO. Link would definitely be better if he didn't get gimped so much. Still low-mid tier mind you, but far, far better.

Ganon has more tourney rep because he's ****ing Ganon. How many seriously competitive dudes are gonna play Zelda? -_- There are only so many gay guys out there, even in the Smash scene. (I'm semi-serious about that.)

Peach is the character that mainly appeals to gay smashers, including many Peaches who do well in major tourneys. Zelda isn't really a 'gay' character, IMO. Following your logic, pulling out Zelda occasionally might be worthwhile in matches she does OK in (ICs, King Dedede), since they'll probably have little idea of how to fight her.

Also note that Ganon lacks a lot of the disjoint Zelda has, and although Din's is retardedly bad as a camping tool, at least she has a projectile. I'd argue that although Ganon is more powerful, Zelda can kill almost as early -- and neither of them have an easy time landing their KO moves, tech chase or no tech chase.

Zelda has an easier time though, because although her kill set-ups are limited, they are generally quite effective (i.e. DTilt, Nair, UThrow etc.)

EDIT #2: I also forgot to mention that Ganon is made completely and utterly unviable by a couple of characters. Besides Olimar (arguably), Zelda has no MUs that're THAT bad.

Game and Watch. Need I say more?

Seriously though, Ganondorf gets WTFraped by a lot more than just two characters (I'm assuming you're referring to Sheik and ICs here). He goes 30:70 or worse against half the cast, arguably more, and he has basically no chance against MK, Snake, Falco, King Dedede etc.

At the end of the day, Zelda is better, but they're both totally unviable, so it doesn't really matter.

When the game first came out she was definite top tier and now she's suddenly ****ing worst? Why do people always go to the extremes?

Don't forget, back then people didn't SDI her smashes, still got hit by Din's and thought that her recovery was 'awesome'.

 

[-Mars-]

Ftilt and Utilt are awesome.

Who cares anyway? Why even post something as stupid as this? We all know she's a bad character, although she isn't as bad as you are making her out to be.

Her recovery isn't that bad either. A terrible recovery is Ivydorf's Up B. Not Zelda's Up B.

Her recovery isn't great, but it's much better than others.

Zelda is a bad character, but she isn't the worst. If she was the worst, she'd be at the bottom of the tier list. Where is she? D tier. Will she go down? Probably. Will she go to the bottom of the tier list? No.

No their not.

I do, since I atttempt to use her somewhat competitively.

Yes it is. It's slightly better than Ivy and Ganons but you're still getting punished the majority of the time.

She's still overrated on the current tier list.

There's no reason to debate the rest (rofl @half of your points, tho), but:



Umm, that's not why I mentioned region at all. Rewind and re-read: I was pointing to the fact that, in particular, the number of DDDs in my region means that playing a character like Ganon, Falcon, or Link is laughable. (I mean, it's laughable anyway, but..... yeah.) You'll get CG > gimped. There's also an enormously high concentration of MKs in NJ, and while Zelda doesn't do well against MK at all, imo she does a bit better vs. him than Ganon and Falcon do. Dunno about Link vs. MK, but I imagine it's around as bad of a MU.

I didn't compare my region to your region, so there's no need to get butthurt when I said or implied nothing about you.

Anyways. This thread is pretty pointless, and I'm upset that I even started debating about it, tbqh, since you wanna have your negative shades on and act like Zelda has nothing going for her while every other bottom tier is wonderful.

Zelda is not the worst character in the game. Get better, stop crying.

Nobody is crying, nobody is butthurt. Nobody is stating that bottom tier characters are wonderful<_<.

Land those kicks mars!

I try Kataefi! I really do!

When the game first came out she was definite top tier and now she's suddenly ****ing worst? Why do people always go to the extremes?

I've talked to a lot of people about her, there's like more competitive Zelda players on the Sheik boards than there is here tbh......so I didn't really expect this fact to be generally accepted here. A lot of the top players think she's the absolute worst as well. People like Reflex think CF is C tier strictly because of MOBILITY which is something that no one seems to understand in this thread.

FTilt, UTilt and Nayru's are not awful. FTilt is a decent anti-air move, and is kinda safe on block if you space really well, UTilt is a fast surprise kill move, and Nayru's is a solid defense move even if it doesn't work too well when it comes to reflecting.

Ftilt is safe on block against like DDD and like two others lol. Utilt is not fast in any way, and Naryu's is a laggy move with little rang.....not something I would call a good defensive move.

A 5-frame move with good horizontal range is hard to land?

Yep. Considering a lot of characters can safely harass Zelda in her blindspot diagonally above her.

No need for the IMO. Link would definitely be better if he didn't get gimped so much. Still low-mid tier mind you, but far, far better.

Peach is the character that mainly appeals to gay smashers, including many Peaches who do well in major tourneys. Zelda isn't really a 'gay' character, IMO. Following your logic, pulling out Zelda occasionally might be worthwhile in matches she does OK in (ICs, King Dedede), since they'll probably have little idea of how to fight her.

I agree, I still think Zelda does well in those MU's.

Seriously though, Ganondorf gets WTFraped by a lot more than just two characters (I'm assuming you're referring to Sheik and ICs here). He goes 30:70 or worse against half the cast, arguably more, and he has basically no chance against MK, Snake, Falco, King Dedede etc.

At the end of the day, Zelda is better, but they're both totally unviable, so it doesn't really matter.

Yes Ganon has terrible MU's but he also has the ability to pull of amazing strings due to his tech chase and his moveset allowing him to actually follow up. With Zelda after really low percentages you hit someone and they go flying away and it resets positioning.....once you finally get inside of a character you hit them away and you have to repeat the process all over again.

 

[KayLo!]

Game and Watch. Need I say more?

G&W is hard, but I was talking characters who are virtually impossible to win against. Granted, when you're talking ~20:80 and lower ratios, it doesn't really matter, but Ganon vs. DDD/ICs is arguably close to 0:100.

Zelda vs. G&W is bad, but I think Olimar more so fits the definition of impossible.

Just clarifying what I meant.

Nobody is crying, nobody is butthurt. Nobody is stating that bottom tier characters are wonderful<_<.

The entire OP is you crying. Your crying about me bringing up the word "region" and jumping to the worst conclusion about my intentions is crying.

The only point of this thread is to say Zelda is trash. It's not helping anybody, it's not advancing her metagame, it's not doing anything but whining -- and besides that, it's a poor attempt at proving your point.

But uh. Yeah, have fun with this. /out

 

[MrEh]

Zelda is not the worst character in the game.

This is coming from me. Therefore, my word is law.

 

[Vermanubis]

I apologize for being unable to contribute more to the discussion, but I'd like to say that saying Zelda is worse than Ganon is plain spacey. That, and though I'm far from a Zelda main, I've faced more than my fair share to know she is by no means the worst character. As others have said before and I will reiterate, she isn't good, but she's not awful.

She has OoS options, massive disjointedness, good killing options, extremely solid defense game, above average roll/spotdodge, average recovery and a projectile. Ganon has one of the above and nothing else. Jigglypuff has two. So on, so forth. As for mobility, if you think Zelda's got it bad, try playing Ganon in a match against a faster character who's good at punishing. Ganon has the most jump and end-jump lag of any character, which means with no OoS options, he's stuck if you corner him. He's like a glass tank. Imagine being unable to even jump or land without being punished.

At that, I just want to say count your blessings that Zelda has what she has, despite it being little.

Edit: Also, as far as Ganon being able to follow up and string his moves together; that only works at very low percentages. That, and they're so incredibly difficult to land without being punished or trading hits, that you sometimes question if it's worth it. It's like having a shotgun loaded with feathers. Ostensibly, it's scary, but extremely difficult and pragmatically impossible to make effective.

 

[etecoon]

ganon is way, way worse than zelda.

 

[*JuriHan*]

ganon is way, way worse than zelda.

this.

/topic

 

[KayLo!]

I've come to the conclusion that either this is a troll topic or Mars is extremely delusional.

Spoiler

I had another word there..... but god**** my modship, gotta be nice.

 

[Kataefi]

I've come to the conclusion that either this is a troll topic or Mars is extremely delusional.

You're absolutely right... if nothing good comes out of this discussion tomorrow this thread will be locked. It's not helping anything.

Mars... what do you think are the best measures against shield campers and characters with superior camp games?

 

[Icyo]

Zelda is not the worst character in the game.

This is coming from me. Therefore, my word is law.

I believe in MrEh's word being law

 

[Chuee]

At least Zelda can do SOMETHING oos without getting *****.

 

[-Mars-]

Uh, you can lock the thread if you want......not gonna bother me at all.

@Kata- characters with great camping games are really frustrating. Walking shield approaches are your best bet but most of the time when I get there they run away and reset positioning foring me to repeat the process over again.

 

[-Tempest-]

I use Zelda in competition. It's a challenge, sure, but it's a lot of fun. For some reason, I do better with Zelda than TL....

 

[InfiniteBlaze]

LOL, that title will always belong to ganondorf.

OP just wants an excuse to suck

 

[Tristan_win]

I hate Zelda, but I don't think she's the worst in the game. She's roughly as good as Samus but for different reasons. Recently I've repick up Zelda after facing a good one online, surprisingly a lot of her moves are difficult to punish if you use them to bait into shield.

 

[MrEh]

It's pretty clear when someone like me admits that Zelda is not the worst character in the game, it must be true.

Saying she's worse then Ganon or Ivysaur is absurd.

 

[DanGR]

Absolutely terrible? Definitely.

Worst? Nah.

Ganon is clearly the worst. Then it's close between Jiggs and Link, imo. Zelda is somewhere above that, but not by much. She's about as bad as Samus... scratch that. I think Samus is better. <_<

I remember back in the day everyone was arguing over where in high tier she belonged. LOL. All that time I was thinking... "L and R are shield in this game too." With a lot of characters you can literally stand still and shield and Zelda can't do anything about it.

edit: Mars, did you get my IM? D;

 

[mountain_tiger]

Ftilt is safe on block against like DDD and like two others lol. Utilt is not fast in any way, and Naryu's is a laggy move with little rang.....not something I would call a good defensive move.

It's fast in terms of start-up (10 frames). The cooldown is pretty bad though, I'll give you that.

I agree, I still think Zelda does well in those MU's.

The very fact that Zelda has MUs in her advantage means that she's not worse than Ganondorf. Ganondorf is at a disadvantage in every single matchup, and gets ***** by top/high tiers even more than Zelda does.

G&W is hard, but I was talking characters who are virtually impossible to win against. Granted, when you're talking ~20:80 and lower ratios, it doesn't really matter, but Ganon vs. DDD/ICs is arguably close to 0:100

Zelda vs. G&W is bad, but I think Olimar more so fits the definition of impossible.

Just clarifying what I meant.

Doesn't the G&W matchup consist of 'hope he makes mistakes and punish him for it'. At a high level, people don't make that many mistakes. He screws Zelda over from most angles except directly above her, her offensive self gets wrecked even more than usual, and if he plays it right she struggles to land a single hit on him.

Unless you're significantly more skilled than the G&W player, it's pretty much unwinnable.


Still, I think we can all agree that Zelda is NOT the worst character in the game. She's definitely better than Link, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf. To an extent, the others are debatable, though IMO she's better than Jigglypuff and Samus as well.

Now, if Zelda lost her DSmash, DTilt and USmash, then she might be the worst character...

 

[adumbrodeus]

Zelda has at least one advantaged match-up, and at least one advantaged match-up that is not in bottom tier. Zelda is not the worst character, not even ****ing close.

 

[AzNfinesse]

again...zelda is NOT the worst character in the game.

 

[Aibou]

Zelda ain't the worst in the game. She's reeeeally bad, but not f-tier bad.

I don't even think Zelda was made to be a great character considering she's supposed to be used in conjunction with Sheik. I think they made her with glaring weaknesses on purpose so Sheik can clean up her messes (and vice versa). That being said, she ain't that bad. I'd plop her in the E-Tier and be done with it.

@Kata- characters with great camping games are really frustrating. Walking shield approaches are your best bet but most of the time when I get there they run away and reset positioning foring me to repeat the process over again.

^This is hella true though *glares at Falco*

 

[Dark.Pch]

Why do people have the need to ***** about thier character so much like it is really gonna change anything? You know what you character was like when you furst decided to play them. So why cry about it for? Like seriously, de que diablo.

If you gonna cry about a character and all this garbage, don't play them and go play a high tier or something so you can feel proud of yourself. God dammit man. People crying about thier characters so **** much these days. Just stop using them then and shut up. Done.

 

[zeldspazz]

@________@

Mars be supa trollin ;-;

 

[Aibou]

Why do people have the need to ***** about thier character so much like it is really gonna change anything? You know what you character was like when you furst decided to play them. So why cry about it for? Like seriously, de que diablo.

If you gonna cry about a character and all this garbage, don't play them and go play a high tier or something so you can feel proud of yourself. God dammit man. People crying about thier characters so **** much these days. Just stop using them then and shut up. Done.

People complain because their favorite character is totally unviable in tournament play. They want to play them, but they can't because they suffer so many bad MUs. People get upset and I guess feel the need to rant about it. I get upset a lot that I sometimes have to go Sheik or Pit in order to win rather than just going solo-Zelda. It's upsetting because I, along with everyone else here, love Zelda and want to win with her. But we just can't because she's so unviable.


HOWEVER, like someone said before in this thread, there are tons of low tiers that take on top tiers and win. I've seen a Link beat an MK. I've been an MK that lost to a Ganon. So if they can do it, why can't we? No, it's not because she's worse than them as a character. It's becauss we are worse than them as players. And thus, instead of complaining, we should be working harder to win. I speak of myself as well because I am forever complaining to myself that Zelda can't beat a campy character to save her life. But instead of whining about it, I should be working on how to win the next time. This is something we should all do. Otherwise, Zelda will fall to that dreaded 37th spot on the tier list.


I have no real tourney experience outside of wifi tournies, but this is all common sense. Let's stop talking about how bad Zelda is and lets work on how to make her better. It's a stretch, but like Dark Pch said: we knew what we were getting into when we chose to play Zelda. And if anyone doesn't think they can do it, then they shouldn't play Zelda.

*goes back into the shadows*

 

[noradseven]

Online Brawl != offline brawl, different tactics different focus, offline you will run into alot of ppl who will PS all the **** time. Plus anything 10-30 frames(depends on lag) and faster is unreactable online when offline its more or less anything 3 frames and faster, that makes a huge difference when you can air dodge MKs up B on reaction and visaversa.



The only reason why ganon wins is cause too many people don't take him seriously / don't actually know the match against a good ganon, Link shouldn't be F tier either he is just a low tier character that just ahppesn to be crazy hard to learn in a game like brawl.

Falcon is **** along with ganon though, I think Zelda is worse than link but better than those 2, jiggs I have mixed feelings on... I have a tough time with a good Jiggs with my character but a decent number of the top tiers win it for free so.

 

[KayLo!]

@________@

Mars be supa trollin ;-;

^

Close dis ****. But in the meantime, since it's open:

HOWEVER, like someone said before in this thread, there are tons of low tiers that take on top tiers and win. I've seen a Link beat an MK. I've been an MK that lost to a Ganon. So if they can do it, why can't we? No, it's not because she's worse than them as a character. It's becauss we are worse than them as players. And thus, instead of complaining, we should be working harder to win. I speak of myself as well because I am forever complaining to myself that Zelda can't beat a campy character to save her life. But instead of whining about it, I should be working on how to win the next time. This is something we should all do. Otherwise, Zelda will fall to that dreaded 37th spot on the tier list.

While I applaud people who have a "can do" attitude when it comes to bad characters like Zelda/Ganon/etc., the bottom line is this: if you're playing against semi-pro/pro players, you will not place exceptionally well with Zelda in a standard tournament environment. (EDIT: When I say "place well," I mean place in money in tournaments with notably good players in attendance.) I don't mean to be a negative nancy, but to win with Zelda, you have to be a LOT better than the common MKs, Snakes, and other top tiers running around; at top levels of play, the skill gaps between players generally become small enough that people will quickly learn + abuse Zelda's weaknesses after a match or two. It's not hard. And you probably won't have the skill advantage to make up for that.

I really think people should start using Zelda for what she's good for: doubles, low tiers, wifi, and the top/high tier MUs she doesn't get ***** in (ICs, Diddy, Pikachu, etc.). People who try to use her for characters like Snake and the like are just asking to get 2-stocked or more when the opponent learns that all he has to do is nade camp, ftilt, and utilt.

I'm not saying this to be a downer; on the contrary, I think the Zelda community would see a lot more success if we collectively started operating with her strengths in mind rather than always bringing up how she might be able to win against high tiers and whatnot "if we try hard enough" or whatever.

If you're dead set on using Zelda for regular tournies, pick up a secondary, use Sheik, something, ****. There's no loss of pride in doing that.

 

[zeldspazz]

Pick up a secondary, use Sheik, something, ****. There's no loss of pride in doing that.

While I agree with this, I know a lot of people who dont. Seriously I dont get why people are shamed to pick up MK.

 

[adumbrodeus]

again...zelda is NOT the worst character in the game.

Yo, haven't seen you around here in forever, what's up man?


You're not going to pound 4 are you?

Why do people have the need to ***** about thier character so much like it is really gonna change anything? You know what you character was like when you furst decided to play them. So why cry about it for? Like seriously, de que diablo.

If you gonna cry about a character and all this garbage, don't play them and go play a high tier or something so you can feel proud of yourself. God dammit man. People crying about thier characters so **** much these days. Just stop using them then and shut up. Done.

I didn't know what Zelda was like before I started playing her...


No seriously, at the face of it, she's cool, she's just literally doomed by her frame data.


Not really complaining though, I chose to play Ganon too, even though I knew he was phail-tier minute 1.

While I applaud people who have a "can do" attitude when it comes to bad characters like Zelda/Ganon/etc., the bottom line is this: if you're playing against semi-pro/pro players, you will not place exceptionally well with Zelda in a standard tournament environment. (EDIT: When I say "place well," I mean place in money in tournaments with notably good players in attendance.) I don't mean to be a negative nancy, but to win with Zelda, you have to be a LOT better than the common MKs, Snakes, and other top tiers running around; at top levels of play, the skill gaps between players generally become small enough that people will quickly learn + abuse Zelda's weaknesses after a match or two. It's not hard. And you probably won't have the skill advantage to make up for that.

I really think people should start using Zelda for what she's good for: doubles, low tiers, wifi, and the top/high tier MUs she doesn't get ***** in (ICs, Diddy, Pikachu, etc.). People who try to use her for characters like Snake and the like are just asking to get 2-stocked or more when the opponent learns that all he has to do is nade camp, ftilt, and utilt.

I'm not saying this to be a downer; on the contrary, I think the Zelda community would see a lot more success if we collectively started operating with her strengths in mind rather than always bringing up how she might be able to win against high tiers and whatnot "if we try hard enough" or whatever.

If you're dead set on using Zelda for regular tournies, pick up a secondary, use Sheik, something, ****. There's no loss of pride in doing that.

That said, some people are looking to build up to that incredible difference needed to consistently win, and I understand that. But good luck with that.


That said, she does make a reasonable secondary for a Marth player such as myself.