Zelda is the Worst Character in the Game.

[zeldspazz]

Pit.

So thats why Ramen does it so well

 

[-Mars-]

Non sweetspot dair to a footstool is a guaranteed gimp on a lot of characters.

 

[MrEh]

Non sweetspot dair to a footstool is a guaranteed gimp on a lot of characters.

But none that matter.

D-air is a beast move. Zeldas just can't be afraid to go out and use it.

Dair is not a beast move.

PS - Seriously, Naryu's has almost no use in her moveset. As a reflector, you have to hit your opponent with the projectile, or be punished for using NL.

If you are using Naryu's as a reflector, you are doing it wrong.

 

[-Mars-]

But none that matter.

Falco, Fox, Wolf, Lucario, Sheik, Peach.........very situational to even land a dair but if you DO then you can gimp them everytime and since the spacies side b is very telegraphed and dair has a lasting hitbox, it happens more often than you might think.

 

[MrEh]

Falco, Fox, Wolf, Lucario, Sheik, Peach.........very situational to even land a dair but if you DO then you can gimp them everytime and since the spacies side b is very telegraphed and dair has a lasting hitbox, it happens more often than you might think.

You what happens more often then anything else?

Trying to Dair, only to see that it doesn't work.

 

[GodAtHand]

Dair is useful against Icys. Just dair one of them during the recovery (even it sour spots) and they stop dead in their tracks.

 

[zeldspazz]

LOL http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9207489#post9207489

We've got some competition guys

 

[-Mars-]

See this guys failed attempt to troll is a good example of why I am one of the best trolls on Smashboards. xD.

 

[KayLo!]

One of the best? Negative.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

lol trolls

 

[adumbrodeus]

See this guys failed attempt to troll is a good example of why I am one of the best trolls on Smashboards. xD.

Would've been better if people didn't actually constantly say Zelda is bottom tier...

 

[mountain_tiger]

See this guys failed attempt to troll is a good example of why I am one of the best trolls on Smashboards. xD.

I'm pretty sure I'm a better troll than you. Just saying...

But none that matter.



Dair is not a beast move.



If you are using Naryu's as a reflector, you are doing it wrong.

I agree with all of what you've said here. Dair isn't useless, but compared to other spikes it's pretty lame. It's like a downwards equivalent of Uair really, in that it's slow enough to airdodge on reaction, but you can use this totry and bait airdoges and hit with it. The problem is that Dair doesn't always sweetspot, whereas Uair is always super strong. Using it for anything other than spiking will get you killed, though.

I find that Nayru's is a good punishing tool for people who like to spotdodge and roll a lot. In addition, it can act like Marths' counter, in that if you predict a move coming, you can Nayru's, they'll hit you during your invincibility, and the cooldown means they'll get hit by Nayru's. It's not a good move, but it has its uses.

 

[-Mars-]

One of the best? Negative.

Wha wha? When people know you're trolling and your threads consistently get tons of replies and people going "ZOMG YOUR SO WRONG" it is the sign of a good troll.

Pity you can't just enjoy the epicness and have ta hate on it.

I'm pretty sure I'm a better troll than you. Just saying...

Nah bruh you just talk about how you like guys and how you've never been kissed and how painful it is for you to whack off and stuff..............I guess if you call that trollin'.

 

[Nic64]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zluk4Nhtt0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewYH24H3cdA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mT_WQGYb3g&feature=related


Worst character.

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

As sad as it sounds. Dair, even sour spot, really hurts Diddy Kong.

I still don't understand why SSDair beats Diddy's UpB but it does.

 

[-Mars-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaik3Efwdxw

 

[Nic64]

Snake 4 low tier

 

[-Mars-]

Yo Nic ma *** stop trollin ma thread ma dood.

 

[KayLo!]

Pity you can't just enjoy the epicness and have ta hate on it.

Epicness? Lolol. I'm glad you get your kicks from trolling a gaming web site..... explore outside your basement, plz.

@Mercutio: Does it beat his up b or trade with it? Granted, I'd take a hit if it's a guaranteed gimp.

I need to learn that MU with Zelda (my Pika can't handle him at all ), so anything that screws Diddy is good for me.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Epicness? Lolol. I'm glad you get your kicks from trolling a gaming web site..... explore outside your basement, plz.

@Mercutio: Does it beat his up b or trade with it? Granted, I'd take a hit if it's a guaranteed gimp.

I need to learn that MU with Zelda (my Pika can't handle him at all ), so anything that screws Diddy is good for me.

Didn't you say that you were learning Peach? Because she does pretty well against him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zluk4Nhtt0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewYH24H3cdA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mT_WQGYb3g&feature=related


Worst character.

Riot's Zelda is too good.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Dude, when you start a discussion on a topic that is perceived by a significant amount of the forum as legit and then say, "lolz ima troll!", when people discuss it... well did you actually troll people?


I mean it's not like you got us upset or anything, we discussed it calmly and rationally with the occasional "troll" accusation (mainly because I don't think many people understand exactly how bad most of SWF thinks Zelda is).


So, if getting people to talk calmly and rationally about a topic that's pretty legit in the forums gives you a rise... well then congrats, you succeeded.


I guess that's the secret to happiness, low expectations.



Now excuse me, I think I'm gonna make a thread about a character's frametraps and maybe half-way through the thread declare, "I'm trolling!". I'm gonna call it, "pulling a mars".

 

[KayLo!]

Didn't you say that you were learning Peach? Because she does pretty well against him.

Too lazy. I might pick her up still, but I haven't had time to learn someone new between moving and the holidays.

Plus I've never really practiced a character, so I'm not sure where to start. ;; I've played Pikachu since 64, and Zelda takes ~2 brain cells to pick up..... I've never sat down and actually practiced Brawl. I just play with people and get experience that way, but I don't think I can do that alone for Peach.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Too lazy. I might pick her up still, but I haven't had time to learn someone new between moving and the holidays.

Plus I've never actually practiced a character, so I'm not sure where to start. ;; I've played Pikachu since 64, and Zelda takes ~2 brain cells to pick up, so I've never sat down and actually practiced Brawl. I just play with people and get experience that way, but I don't think I can do that for Peach.

Thank God you don't play melee fox/falco.


*remembers what melee was like before practicing ATs and cries softly*

 

[KayLo!]

Lol. I was garb at Melee. I never even tried it on a competitive level because I don't have the patience to sit and practice a game for a long time..... I get bored.

Brawl is mostly about player-to-player, so it's pretty easy to improve just from experience.

64 was my ****, though.... 64 Pika is tooooo~ ****in good.

 

[-Mars-]

Epicness? Lolol. I'm glad you get your kicks from trolling a gaming web site..... explore outside your basement, plz.

No! you mean there are places outside of my basement?

Dude, when you start a discussion on a topic that is perceived by a significant amount of the forum as legit and then say, "lolz ima troll!", when people discuss it... well did you actually troll people?


I mean it's not like you got us upset or anything, we discussed it calmly and rationally with the occasional "troll" accusation (mainly because I don't think many people understand exactly how bad most of SWF thinks Zelda is).


So, if getting people to talk calmly and rationally about a topic that's pretty legit in the forums gives you a rise... well then congrats, you succeeded.


I guess that's the secret to happiness, low expectations.



Now excuse me, I think I'm gonna make a thread about a character's frametraps and maybe half-way through the thread declare, "I'm trolling!". I'm gonna call it, "pulling a mars".

Hehe maybe this isn't a troll thread but i'm trolling you right now?

But on a serious note, A LOT of people I have talked to that have a great understanding about the game think she's the worst character maybe with the exception of Ganon. This thread isn't that off base tbh and she probably has the least amount of tournament results of any character.

 

[zeldspazz]

Your points in the OP are very true. Just the dead last is wrong.

Id say shes better than Ganon, CF, and is pretty close to Link if he didnt get gimped, and is about as good/slightly better than Samus and Jiggs. IMO Jiggs is pretty underrated.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Lol. I was garb at Melee. I never even tried it on a competitive level because I don't have the patience to sit and practice a game for a long time..... I get bored.

Brawl is mostly about player-to-player, so it's pretty easy to improve just from experience.

64 was my ****, though.... 64 Pika is tooooo~ ****in good.

Actually, I'm sort the the same way, it took me forever to consistently wavedash (though partially because I figured Dashdancing makes up for it, it doesn't), but the thing is, when you get good, in the words of Scar, "it offers you unparalleled Joy. Until you realize fox ***** everything you try". Partially paraphrased, but you get the idea. I love melee, I would pick a game that requires tons of practice. But I've almost got all the techskill down, all I need is to be consistent with wavelanding, ledge-dashing, SHDF, and some turnip stuff and I can just play to gain experience. Oh yea, and get Sheik's stupid DD down.


Brawl's easier in that regard of course, speaking of which, my recent mlee-only stint seems to have improved my brawl game a lot. I dunno why.


And yes, 64 pikachu is SOOO good. I mained ness of course. Who sucks in every game.

Hehe maybe this isn't a troll thread but i'm trolling you right now?

Again, low expectations.

But on a serious note, A LOT of people I have talked to that have a great understanding about the game think she's the worst character maybe with the exception of Ganon. This thread isn't that off base tbh and she probably has the least amount of tournament results of any character.

The thing is, that's just not realistic, I understand WHY people have that impression, but that's just negative hype honestly, there are REAL reasons why she should be lower, but characters at around that level are about as limited as she is.


Ganondorf? Nothing slower then reaction time, please.
Link? I can gimp him by looking at him funny.
Falcon? Ruined by his frame data, his moves come out far too slow and gets boxed out far too easily.
Jiggs? Does not belong in bottom tier, but people need to play her correctly, she's got good defensive capabilities, but you gotta play mad "gay", and you gotta be always looking for the gimp.
Samus? Samus is basically Zelda except worse, her projectiles are easy to powershield and she has no real way to take advantage of the committment that the powershielding offers. Heck, most of her moveset can be powershielded on reaction. She also suffers from "Zelda syndrome" in that she has almost nothing against a shielding opponent. And at least Zelda can kill.


I think that gets the basic message across, she's bad, but simply not that bad, she's just overhyped as being bad, and the characters that belong below her have more crippling flaws as crippling flaws or at least lack her strengths.



But the fact that a lot of people say this is why it's a realistic discussion.

 

[KayLo!]

Why did you quote me with Mars? o.o We weren't even talking about the same thing, lol.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Why did you quote me with Mars? o.o We weren't even talking about the same thing, lol.

Because I'm an idiot, I intended to respond to you separately with what I have up there now but I totally forgot.

 

[AzNfinesse]

But on a serious note, A LOT of people I have talked to that have a great understanding about the game think she's the worst character maybe with the exception of Ganon. This thread isn't that off base tbh and she probably has the least amount of tournament results of any character.

my response to that is this:

consider the amount of actual people out there that play ganon compared to the amount of people that play zelda.

...

.....

........

.............

yep. exactly. far fewer.

fewer people playing the game = fewer tournament results, which obviously means the least amount of tournament results. but the zeldas that do play zelda do bring good results. DarkMusician, NinjaLink, and others just to name a few place very well in tournaments using zelda. Even other tournament zeldas hold their own and at least place top 16. But then again, if you count all the consistently active tournamet zeldas, I'd say there's fewer than 10, even if that. FURTHERMORE, it's realistically impossible to use zelda only in a tournament setting. Every tournament zelda user should realize this by now.

I use zelda mainly to feel out my opponent in singles, as my main in doubles when i team with snake, zss, toon link, or diddy, or in crew battles when i need to counterpick someone (yes, I use zelda to cp people in crew battles LOLZ).

but just because she has the fewest tournament results does not mean the tournament results are bad. And i'd double check that statistic because I believe mario, link, and jiggs have fewer than zelda.

Ganondorf? Nothing slower then reaction time, please.
Link? I can gimp him by looking at him funny.
Falcon? Ruined by his frame data, his moves come out far too slow and gets boxed out far too easily.
Jiggs? Does not belong in bottom tier, but people need to play her correctly, she's got good defensive capabilities, but you gotta play mad "gay", and you gotta be always looking for the gimp.
Samus? Samus is basically Zelda except worse, her projectiles are easy to powershield and she has no real way to take advantage of the committment that the powershielding offers. Heck, most of her moveset can be powershielded on reaction. She also suffers from "Zelda syndrome" in that she has almost nothing against a shielding opponent. And at least Zelda can kill.

REGIONAL explanation. I lol'd at link and samus.

I think that gets the basic message across, she's bad, but simply not that bad, she's just overhyped as being bad, and the characters that belong below her have more crippling flaws as crippling flaws or at least lack her strengths.



But the fact that a lot of people say this is why it's a realistic discussion.

I don't even think zelda is bad, just misunderstood. she's that red headed step-child in an all-blonde family of atheletes and scholars, that is secretly a super secret agent for the CIA.

In other words, she's underestimated. True, matchup-wise it's difficult, but far from impossible. People just need to stop being an Emo-Sean and start being a Happy Harry. Up the ante a bit, be more confident, and stop bringing her skill down.

It was said in another thread (i forget which one) that it's not the character that's bad, it's the one holding the controller. Don't blame zelda for your crapiness.

L2Play and stop qqing or find another character and STOP BRINGING DOWN THE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO PLAY ZELDA. If you wanna hate on her so much, then do so, but stop playing her.

and end my nerd rage.

 

[-Mars-]

Tournament results= placing top 8........Ganon players do this more often than Zelda players lol.

 

[adumbrodeus]

my response to that is this:

consider the amount of actual people out there that play ganon compared to the amount of people that play zelda.

...

.....

........

.............

yep. exactly. far fewer.

fewer people playing the game = fewer tournament results, which obviously means the least amount of tournament results. but the zeldas that do play zelda do bring good results. DarkMusician, NinjaLink, and others just to name a few place very well in tournaments using zelda. Even other tournament zeldas hold their own and at least place top 16. But then again, if you count all the consistently active tournamet zeldas, I'd say there's fewer than 10, even if that. FURTHERMORE, it's realistically impossible to use zelda only in a tournament setting. Every tournament zelda user should realize this by now.

I use zelda mainly to feel out my opponent in singles, as my main in doubles when i team with snake, zss, toon link, or diddy, or in crew battles when i need to counterpick someone (yes, I use zelda to cp people in crew battles LOLZ).

but just because she has the fewest tournament results does not mean the tournament results are bad. And i'd double check that statistic because I believe mario, link, and jiggs have fewer than zelda.

Actually, I totally forgot to mention this, but you probably don't even realize how right you are.


Our tournament results are craptastic for measuring character power in the metagame, because the statistical reasoning behind it is fatally flawed.



Applying the same reasoning, you should take up smoking to avoid cardiovascular disease (I actually proved that our tournament results logic says this in the tier list thread).

We have no way of detecting proportions in that system, so all it tracks is centralization.

It would work if we were following a set of mains that had the same number of players with the same skill, but currently, it fails.


I actually wanted to start a project to do basically that, didn't have enough time though....

Tournament results= placing top 8........Ganon players do this more often than Zelda players lol.

Because Ganon has a lot more players.

As I said, our tournament results system tracks centralization, NOT power in the metagame, the statistical reasoning is all wrong for that.

 

[AzNfinesse]

Tournament results= placing top 8........Ganon players do this more often than Zelda players lol.

and this is probably out of 20 people. i'm talking tournaments with at least 32 entrants. every tournament i've entered that had at least 32 i've placed top 16. I'd double check those rankings if i were u. stop hating so much on zelda. go back to the sheik boards.

Actually, I totally forgot to mention this, but you probably don't even realize how right you are.


Our tournament results are craptastic for measuring character power in the metagame, because the statistical reasoning behind it is fatally flawed.



Applying the same reasoning, you should take up smoking to avoid cardiovascular disease (I actually proved that our tournament results logic says this in the tier list thread).

We have no way of detecting proportions in that system, so all it tracks is centralization.

It would work if we were following a set of mains that had the same number of players with the same skill, but currently, it fails.


I actually wanted to start a project to do basically that, didn't have enough time though....



Because Ganon has a lot more players.

As I said, our tournament results system tracks centralization, NOT power in the metagame, the statistical reasoning is all wrong for that.

what he said. LOL! deus knows what i want to say but i never want to type it myself.

 

[KayLo!]

stop hating so much on zelda. go back to the sheik boards.

This, pretty much.

 

[AzNfinesse]

This, pretty much.

<3 KayLo. lol.

 

[-Mars-]

Ain't nobody hating on Zelda lol she just blows.

Also i've been on these boards before you even joined this site so I really don't see why I would leave just because you told me too.

Silly people.

 

[KayLo!]

Going for the join date? Really?

Classy move, Mars. Real solid, fact-based argument you have there.

 

[-Mars-]

About as classy as you going for the getting out of your basement argument.

 

[AzNfinesse]

Ain't nobody hating on Zelda lol she just blows.

Also i've been on these boards before you even joined this site so I really don't see why I would leave just because you told me too.

Silly people.

i'm not telling you to leave, i'm just telling you to stop hating. if you think zelda blows then go ahead. don't turn it into fact because it's not true. your logic is extremely biased and based on information that you gather from people you "know" and not from actual personal experience or research.

every time you make a comment that attacks zelda's physics or gameplay or metagame or whateverthe****youwannahateontoday, i've got research, experience, videos, and tournaments to prove you wrong. I've held my own against SK92, a top falco player who places top 8 regularly in regional tournaments as zelda. I've held my own against dannykat, a regular top marth player on the west coast. I've held my own against leoFTW, regular regional tournament wario player that teams with SK92 and takes top 8 regularly toghether with SK92, as well as Z, one of the top pika's on the west coast. all while using zelda. Now, I'm not saying I would beat them in a tournament setting with zelda, because skill-wise they are superior to me. What I am saying is that zelda does not blow because obviously if i'm able to hold my own against these players with such an as you would call "crappy" character, then she obviously does not "blow". Your logic is obviously based on your own personal experience and what other people tell you who probably don't even play the character or completely don't understand her metagame or her playstyle.

*Awaits response*

About as classy as you going for the getting out of your basement argument.

don't fuel the fire, mars. I'm the one you wanna argue with because apparently I'm wrong in my logic.

 

[KayLo!]

About as classy as you going for the getting out of your basement argument.

That was about trolling, dude.

This is about AzN trying to have a legit debate with you and you going for personal jabs when he's civilly and intelligently countering your lackluster argument.