Zelda is the Worst Character in the Game.

[adumbrodeus]

what he said. LOL! deus knows what i want to say but i never want to type it myself.

Thanks azn.

Going for the join date? Really?

Classy move, Mars. Real solid, fact-based argument you have there.

Oddly enough, it actually works in this case, cause he's trying to say he's a Zelda through and through, and being here forever does help that case.

i'm not telling you to leave, i'm just telling you to stop hating. if you think zelda blows then go ahead. don't turn it into fact because it's not true. your logic is extremely biased and based on information that you gather from people you "know" and not from actual personal experience or research.

every time you make a comment that attacks zelda's physics or gameplay or metagame or whateverthe****youwannahateontoday, i've got research, experience, videos, and tournaments to prove you wrong. I've held my own against SK92, a top falco player who places top 8 regularly in regional tournaments as zelda. I've held my own against dannykat, a regular top marth player on the west coast. I've held my own against leoFTW, regular regional tournament wario player that teams with SK92 and takes top 8 regularly toghether with SK92, as well as Z, one of the top pika's on the west coast. all while using zelda. Now, I'm not saying I would beat them in a tournament setting with zelda, because skill-wise they are superior to me. What I am saying is that zelda does not blow because obviously if i'm able to hold my own against these players with such an as you would call "crappy" character, then she obviously does not "blow". Your logic is obviously based on your own personal experience and what other people tell you who probably don't even play the character or completely don't understand her metagame or her playstyle.

*Awaits response*



don't fuel the fire, mars. I'm the one you wanna argue with because apparently I'm wrong in my logic.

Honestly, I think we're taking this a step too far and it's getting too heated here.


I guess I should've known this would've happened with the "go back to the sheik boards point" (though it was mostly the bolding it got imo).


Remember folks, this isn't about any of us personally, this is about a character in a video game.


Mars has his opinion, I have mine, Kaylo has her's, azn has his.


We might all have valid points for our opinion.


But we should not be reducing this to talking about each other personally, that just breeds hard feelings and makes life harder.


Some people are just cynics, being cynics doesn't mean that they're bad people, or hate the character, or don't have something valuable to contribute, it just means they're cynics. If anybody here has heard my comments about Marth, they'll know that I'm probably more cynical then Mars on this, even though I love marth as a character.


On the flip side, the cynics should respect that not everybody is that cynical about this.



Once it becomes personal however, the dynamic falls apart.

 

[AzNfinesse]

Thanks azn.



Oddly enough, it actually works in this case, cause he's trying to say he's a Zelda through and through, and being here forever does help that case.



Honestly, I think we're taking this a step too far and it's getting too heated here.


I guess I should've known this would've happened with the "go back to the sheik boards point" (though it was mostly the bolding it got imo).


Remember folks, this isn't about any of us personally, this is about a character in a video game.


Mars has his opinion, I have mine, Kaylo has her's, azn has his.


We might all have valid points for our opinion.


But we should not be reducing this to talking about each other personally, that just breeds hard feelings and makes life harder.


Some people are just cynics, being cynics doesn't mean that they're bad people, or hate the character, or don't have something valuable to contribute, it just means they're cynics. If anybody here has heard my comments about Marth, they'll know that I'm probably more cynical then Mars on this, even though I love marth as a character.


On the flip side, the cynics should respect that not everybody is that cynical about this.



Once it becomes personal however, the dynamic falls apart.

I really don't mind the debating part, and I admit i can get sarcastic sometimes. But it only takes so much to make people on the board upset, and the whole point of the board in general is to discuss ways to IMPROVE zelda's metagame and draw in other people to want to play zelda. negative topics like this (although mars is more than welcome to his opinion) shouldn't be welcome. but then again, that's just my opinion.

 

[KayLo!]

Oddly enough, it actually works in this case, cause he's trying to say he's a Zelda through and through, and being here forever does help that case.

You missed the point.

I'm just waiting for Kata to close this, tbh, lol. And hopefully Rubbish Bin it. The worse the thread gets, the more that guarantees it'll die. =D

 

[-Mars-]

i'm not telling you to leave, i'm just telling you to stop hating. if you think zelda blows then go ahead. don't turn it into fact because it's not true. your logic is extremely biased and based on information that you gather from people you "know" and not from actual personal experience or research.

Wait how do you come to the conclusion that I don't have personal experience on the matter or that your personal experiences or your research is superior to my research on Zelda?

every time you make a comment that attacks zelda's physics or gameplay or metagame or whateverthe****youwannahateontoday, i've got research, experience, videos, and tournaments to prove you wrong.

I would love to see all of these proofs.

I've held my own against SK92, a top falco player who places top 8 regularly in regional tournaments as zelda. I've held my own against dannykat, a regular top marth player on the west coast. I've held my own against leoFTW, regular regional tournament wario player that teams with SK92 and takes top 8 regularly toghether with SK92, as well as Z, one of the top pika's on the west coast. all while using zelda. Now, I'm not saying I would beat them in a tournament setting with zelda, because skill-wise they are superior to me. What I am saying is that zelda does not blow because obviously if i'm able to hold my own against these players with such an as you would call "crappy" character, then she obviously does not "blow". Your logic is obviously based on your own personal experience and what other people tell you who probably don't even play the character or completely don't understand her metagame or her playstyle.

*Awaits response*

Deva has beaten DSF with his Link, a Ganon player is POWER RANKED in Norcal, Koskinator was in grand finals in a canadian tournament with ganon back in the summer, Lawz' Link went even with Ally's Snake in a friendly the other day......just because you can "hold your own" with good players doesn't mean Zelda isn't the worst in the game, going by that logic then Ganon and Link aren't that bad either because they can "hold their own".

I don't see why this argument is supposedly logical and somehow even a point of contention for me to be debating over. Everytime you post arguing against me it's "MArs your emo go to the Sheik boards Sheik player!!!" and your posts have very little substance or logical paragraphs that I can even follow.

 

[Teran]

You should post all your arguments in the Tier List thread too.

Although in a way, that's like havoc ^ 4, but if that's not your intention you should do it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I really don't mind the debating part, and I admit i can get sarcastic sometimes. But it only takes so much to make people on the board upset, and the whole point of the board in general is to discuss ways to IMPROVE zelda's metagame and draw in other people to want to play zelda. negative topics like this (although mars is more than welcome to his opinion) shouldn't be welcome. but then again, that's just my opinion.

Unfortunately, as I said before, being negative about Zelda is part of Zelda boards culture, Mars is a little extreme in it, but it's the truth.


Honestly, I think everyone should've come off this topic with, "yea, Zelda is a bad character, so let's work on ways to overcome those limitations and advance her metagame so it doesn't suck anymore.


I also don't see how topic like this (saying Zelda is a bad character) are wrong, because I think repressing these kind of ideas without dealing with them makes it seem like we're "enforced happy land". We need to recognize exactly where we stand, and only then can we improve.

You missed the point.

I'm just waiting for Kata to close this, tbh, lol. And hopefully Rubbish Bin it. The worse the thread gets, the more that guarantees it'll die. =D

Imo, it's a reasonable response to "you're not a true Zelda", which is what that really did imply.

I mean, he is negative, but there's nothing wrong with being a cynic. Take probably one of the best Ganons out there, Ray Kalm. He's spent most of his time on smashboards talking about how horrible Ganon is (I honestly think he's secretly a Zelda main), but he's definitely one of us, and he's got the dedication needed to be a Ganon main.


He also plays pretty much only Ganon and takes legit spots in tournies.

 

[AzNfinesse]

Unfortunately, as I said before, being negative about Zelda is part of Zelda boards culture, Mars is a little extreme in it, but it's the truth.


Honestly, I think everyone should've come off this topic with, "yea, Zelda is a bad character, so let's work on ways to overcome those limitations and advance her metagame so it doesn't suck anymore.


I also don't see how topic like this (saying Zelda is a bad character) are wrong, because I think repressing these kind of ideas without dealing with them makes it seem like we're "enforced happy land". We need to recognize exactly where we stand, and only then can we improve.

all i'm saying is that this is a pointless topic that goes nowhere except causing problems (which it succeeded). topics should be beneficial and have a point to them. and yes i agree with "yea, Zelda is a bad character, so let's work on ways to overcome those limitations and advance her metagame so it doesn't suck anymore." i would 100% be in this topic all the time. i'm just one of those people that hate it when people are extremely negative.

Imo, it's a reasonable response to "you're not a true Zelda", which is what that really did imply.

did i ever say that he wasn't a true zelda? no. all i said is go back to the sheik boards, sarcastically may i add.

 

[KayLo!]

@adum: Mars wasn't trying to be productive when he made this topic. He literally was just crying about Zelda being bad. That's not the type of threads we need here.

Plus, let's be honest: opinions or not, Zelda's not the worst character in the current metagame. That's just silly.

 

[-Mars-]

Imo, it's a reasonable response to "you're not a true Zelda", which is what that really did imply.

I mean, he is negative, but there's nothing wrong with being a cynic. Take probably one of the best Ganons out there, Ray Kalm. He's spent most of his time on smashboards talking about how horrible Ganon is (I honestly think he's secretly a Zelda main), but he's definitely one of us, and he's got the dedication needed to be a Ganon main.


He also plays pretty much only Ganon and takes legit spots in tournies.

Thanks man, that was pretty much what I was getting at with that response, I suppose I didn't word ti well enough.

Also, I don't think AzN realizes that he's arguing with me about 3 spots on the tier list considering that in the upcoming tier list Zelda will more than likely be 4th worst in the game. If she's considered to be 4th worst in the game is it ZOMG crazy to think that she might in fact be THE worst?

Edit: Also let me point out how AzN doesn't logically respond because he really has no argument here just character bias.

 

[adumbrodeus]

all i'm saying is that this is a pointless topic that goes nowhere except causing problems (which it succeeded). topics should be beneficial and have a point to them. and yes i agree with "yea, Zelda is a bad character, so let's work on ways to overcome those limitations and advance her metagame so it doesn't suck anymore." i would 100% be in this topic all the time. i'm just one of those people that hate it when people are extremely negative.

I think that threads like this are occasionally needed to re-evaluate our perceptions of our character.


I understand that it's not the direct response the thread garners, but I think if people contextualize it properly (which I try to do) people should come away from the thread with that idea.


Honestly, I remember two major drama episodes which felt almost like this and it helped the Zelda boards come to terms with the fact that Zelda is a bad character.

did i ever say that he wasn't a true zelda? no. all i said is go back to the sheik boards, sarcastically may i add.

You didn't, but that's what I got out of it, and it's what I think mars got out it. That's why I said it.


Love the internet, it's lack of precision causes these issues all the time.

@adum: Mars wasn't trying to be productive when he made this topic. He literally was just crying about Zelda being bad. That's not the type of threads we need here.

Plus, let's be honest: opinions or not, Zelda's not the worst character in the current metagame. That's just silly.

And it's should, but should he be banned from making the thread. I personally don't think so, and I think if we interpret it properly we can use it.

But I agree, Zelda is not the worst character.

Thanks man, that was pretty much what I was getting at with that response, I suppose I didn't word ti well enough.

Internets, gotta love em.

Also, I don't think AzN realizes that he's arguing with me about 3 spots on the tier list considering that in the upcoming tier list Zelda will more than likely be 4th worst in the game. If she's considered to be 4th worst in the game is it ZOMG crazy to think that she might in fact be THE worst?

Yes, it is. Because Ganon exists firstly, and I explained why several other characters are worse then Zelda before, anything above that is more debatable, but she should be nothing worse then 5th worst, and I think particular MUs should push her somewhat above that.

Edit: Also let me point out how AzN doesn't logically respond because he really has no argument here just character bias.

Honestly, I think he's more given up on reasoning with you then anything else, it's because this thread's gone too sour.

 

[KayLo!]

And it's should, but should he be banned from making the thread.

Woah woah woah, you're taking that one comment waaaaay too seriously.

Nobody said anything about him being banned. AzN made a semi-sarcastic "go back to the Sheik boards" comment, and I cosigned. Jokingly.

I don't particularly dislike Mars (that much), but this thread is dumb, and he needs to take his attitude back to his Sheik buddies.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Woah woah woah, you're taking that one comment waaaaay too seriously.

Nobody said anything about him being banned. He made a semi-sarcastic "go back to the Sheik boards" comment, and I cosigned. Jokingly.

"Banned from" not "banned for", in other words, should it be disallowed in the board rules, not should he be banned for making the thread. Major difference.

 

[KayLo!]

Nobody said anything about banning/disallowing/whatever anything seriously. It was a joke comment.

 

[-Mars-]

Woah woah woah, you're taking that one comment waaaaay too seriously.

Nobody said anything about him being banned. AzN made a semi-sarcastic "go back to the Sheik boards" comment, and I cosigned. Jokingly.

I don't particularly dislike Mars (that much), but this thread is dumb, and he needs to take his attitude back to his Sheik buddies.

If Zelda being the worst character in the game had anything to do with Sheik then I just might have posted this over there.

If I had of given this thread the title "where will Zelda be on the next tier list" but with the exact same opening dialogue, the conversation would have been much more civil(not that I wasn't civil mind you), with people merely stating that they disagreed with my opinion and leaving (such as Zeldspazz did) or people disagreeing and attempting to debate with me about it (such as Kaylo and Adumbrodeus did). I see no reason why mr. AzN gets mad when I make threads like these lol.

 

[KayLo!]

Because all your threads end up like this, that's why.

There's nothing to accomplish when the OP goes, "Hey guys, I can't do **** with Zelda, but the Ganons and Links seem to be doing all right, so I guess Zelda's the worst character in the game. Oh, and here's a biased, half-***** attempt at proving why."

Then you call yourself a troll halfway through the thread.

Good job at making a productive thread. (clap) I can see why AzN nerd rages.

 

[-Mars-]

Ok if all threads were meant to be productive then that argument would work. Maybe I wanted to DISCUSS a certain issue which is why I ended the OP with "thoughts?". It is a FORUM you know.

Whether or not the thread is productive is rather irrelevant considering you have the option of NOT POSTING in it.

 

[KayLo!]

I tried to make it productive, but then your arguments were ********, so I stopped.

Anyways, I'm off to kick *** with Zelda at a Smashfest, so have fun *****ing over how bad she is. =D

<3 you, Marrrrrssss~

 

[AzNfinesse]

If I had of given this thread the title "where will Zelda be on the next tier list" but with the exact same opening dialogue, the conversation would have been much more civil(not that I wasn't civil mind you), with people merely stating that they disagreed with my opinion and leaving (such as Zeldspazz did) or people disagreeing and attempting to debate with me about it (such as Kaylo and Adumbrodeus did). I see no reason why mr. AzN gets mad when I make threads like these lol.

the reason i get upset is because

1) you always have full intention of being negative.
2) you always start your "topics" off with biased facts and little to no data with credibility. This thread was the first time i've seen you make a legitimate argument about SOMETHING (not that it matters because this topic is stupid and needs to be locked now).
3) everything you say has nothing to do with contributing to developing zelda as a character.

aside from that, i'm done.

 

[GodAtHand]

I like Zelda!

She is always angry even when she wins...

 

[-Mars-]

the reason i get upset is because

1) you always have full intention of being negative.
2) you always start your "topics" off with biased facts and little to no data with credibility. This thread was the first time i've seen you make a legitimate argument about SOMETHING (not that it matters because this topic is stupid and needs to be locked now).
3) everything you say has nothing to do with contributing to developing zelda as a character.

aside from that, i'm done.

1. No I don't I frequently attempt to contribute to MU discussions and various other threads.

2. Most topics are started with biased facts because they are opinions. Simple concept to grasp, don't understand why it is so hard for some people. You didn't provide data with credibility to counter my points and didn't even attempt a feeble response when I bothered to quote one of your posts.

3. Since I never really see you around here very often i'm going to say that you have very little data to support that statement.

 

[Yink]

the reason i get upset is because

1) you always have full intention of being negative.
2) you always start your "topics" off with biased facts and little to no data with credibility. This thread was the first time i've seen you make a legitimate argument about SOMETHING (not that it matters because this topic is stupid and needs to be locked now).
3) everything you say has nothing to do with contributing to developing zelda as a character.

aside from that, i'm done.

Well, he does have full intention of being negative, it's a topic about Zelda being horrible and it's his opinion and his alone. I really don't think you need to get so upset about that. I know I'm no Zelda main, but from what I've seen she is generally not very intimidating to me and I can safely say, yes, she is one of the worst characters.

If you don't like his topics so much, then make one stating WHY you think she's good.

In all fairness, I think it's a good idea to make topics like these from time to time to remind yourself, "Hey, my character really SUCKS, but well, I can make it work somehow".

 

[AzNfinesse]

1. No I don't I frequently attempt to contribute to MU discussions and various other threads.

2. Most topics are started with biased facts because they are opinions. Simple concept to grasp, don't understand why it is so hard for some people. You didn't provide data with credibility to counter my points and didn't even attempt a feeble response when I bothered to quote one of your posts.

3. Since I never really see you around here very often i'm going to say that you have very little data to support that statement.

1) who doesn't ATTEMPT to contribute to the MU discussions? what you contribute and how you contribute it is what makes the difference, and the way u contribute can either be helpful or annoying, depending on whether or not you're trolling.

2) yes, most topics are started with biased facts, but few topics come off as negative or consider a character useless. That's what makes many people upset because you trying to start a conversation is like trying to hang out with your best friends ugly girlfriend.

3) if you pay attention, i've been focusing on school the past 4 months. but yes, I still play, and yes, i have data to support my statement, and a majority of the people on these boards will back me up on that.

oh, and i can't completely take someone seriously who has on their sig the amount of threads he/she has trolled. that really brings down your credibility.

 

[AzNfinesse]

Well, he does have full intention of being negative, it's a topic about Zelda being horrible and it's his opinion and his alone. I really don't think you need to get so upset about that. I know I'm no Zelda main, but from what I've seen she is generally not very intimidating to me and I can safely say, yes, she is one of the worst characters.

If you don't like his topics so much, then make one stating WHY you think she's good.

In all fairness, I think it's a good idea to make topics like these from time to time to remind yourself, "Hey, my character really SUCKS, but well, I can make it work somehow".

if you've been here long enough, this is probably the 3rd or 4th topic (that i can remember seeing) that has done this and has ended like this. And I have made contributions to prove that zelda can be good. If you would like i'll go through my post history and link some of them for you.

 

[Kataefi]

KATA TIME

Honestly, I think we're taking this a step too far and it's getting too heated here.

I guess I should've known this would've happened with the "go back to the sheik boards point" (though it was mostly the bolding it got imo).

Remember folks, this isn't about any of us personally, this is about a character in a video game.

Mars has his opinion, I have mine, Kaylo has her's, azn has his.

We might all have valid points for our opinion.

But we should not be reducing this to talking about each other personally, that just breeds hard feelings and makes life harder.

Some people are just cynics, being cynics doesn't mean that they're bad people, or hate the character, or don't have something valuable to contribute, it just means they're cynics. If anybody here has heard my comments about Marth, they'll know that I'm probably more cynical then Mars on this, even though I love marth as a character.

On the flip side, the cynics should respect that not everybody is that cynical about this.

Once it becomes personal however, the dynamic falls apart.

This post is a winner. A number of these threads pop up from time to time a) when a new tier list is being considered, and b) when someone just wants to make an expression. This is allowable, it's not bannable, it's not infractable, it's an opinion by someone and its up to their audience to prove them right or wrong. The only way this will work is everything but personal hostility towards each other, and I'm seeing a lot of that here.

Hostility from the audience and hostility from the TC will be the sole reason I'm considering locking the thread. Don't be mistaken - this thread has produced some interesting discussion and there's been a strong case Zelda isn't the worst character in the game through AzN's and other's claims.

BUT...

Once again it comes down to a matter of respect. I don't want to be warning individual people... I've seen some of the most intelligent conversations I've ever read on this site in the ZELDA SOCIAL THREAD of all places. Instead of me going around picking out little things and handing out stuff like children... consider this post the warning that the thread will get locked if the next post after my one contains something of hostility towards the other person. Simple.

We can very easily handle this without the whole 'my join date is bigger than yours', 'get back to the sheik boards' comments... come on now.

_

AzN and mars come talk to me on the xat chat or add me on aim. I'm available now.

edit: I cannot spell

 

[adumbrodeus]

Basically Kata said exactly what I was trying to say, this got way out of hand because it got personal. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if it's about Zelda then this is the place for that discussion. That said, this is not the place for people to express hostility.



And now that the mess is over.



I will reiterate my points.


Zelda has at least one advantagious match-up, and I've stated crippling weaknesses for enough characters that make her deserve at least number 5, anyone care to debate me on this point?

 

[Oh Snap]

Yeah I think it was already established that Zelda's a bad character.

 

[AzNfinesse]

Yeah I think it was already established that Zelda's a bad character.

this topic is someone saying zelda is the worst character, not htat she's a bad character.

 

[KayLo!]

This thread is boring now that we're just restating the same **** as always.

Zelda's bad but not the worst.
She has a lot of disadvantages, but a handful of other characters have it worse.
She's gonna go down on the tier list.

/yawn

Did I miss anything? How is this helping her metagame again?

 

[Dark.Pch]

It's one thing to play a bad character. It's another to bash them all the time when you play them to begin with. The heck people play Zelda for? Like seriously, for what? People bash Zelda more then she needs to be. Guys go on about Zelda to no end and yet you people play her? To me it is freaking stupid. I'm sorry but it is. This is worst than the Peach boards when they go on about thier character.

You guys wanna get better with Zelda or be a bunch of cry babies cause Zelda is not that great and just can't have it your way. Go write hate letters to Nintendo and sukaria, don't waste time crying about here. It is not gonna change anything. Zelda will be the same and nothing you or any whining can do about it. From the crying people do about this character, she deverves to be where she is on the tier list, even drop on it for that matter. All cause of this nonsense.

Peach is B tier to me. and even with a character like her, she is hard to play with and Beast with. She has weaknesses that nearly every character in this game can exploit. I go solo Peach in tourny at that it is is not easy to place well. I'll tell you right now I get annoyed and it is fustrating using Peach, even when I place well in tournies. But I don't sit here and go on about how my character can't kill, and all this crap. That is not gonna give my character any powers. I made the choice to use Peach and made the choice to not have counterpicks, I just go all Peach. So I have no right to whine and complain. AT ALL. If I lose and get my *** handed to me, I get ticked at myself and blame myself. It's my fault for being a ******* and not stepping it up. Not gonan blame my character or bash them to no end.

This thread is stupid and there is no reason this needed to be made. This thread makes me sick.Just show how weak people are and how they just want everything their way. Kata, close this garbage already.

You cant get what you want. Thats life. Deal and work with what you got or move on. Just don't touch Zelda anymore and playing a better character that you won't cry about so much. Done.

 

[Oh Snap]

this topic is someone saying zelda is the worst character, not htat she's a bad character.

the message that TO is giving is that Zelda's a bad character
to say that she's the worst is stupidly wrong considering there are characters that are worse than zelda (cf, ganon, jiggs)
most likely the TO is joking abt the topic title

kaylo is absolutely right. this' creating nothing but unnecessary drama and like i said before the world knows that zelda is a bad character. however what we need to do is improve her and not restate how she's a poor immobile fatty!!!!

 

[KayLo!]

No, Mars was dead serious about arguing for her being the absolute worst: worse than Falcon, Ganon, Jiggs, etc. He said so in the OP, and he tried to debate it against several people (myself, AzN, etc.).

So really this thread's just full of bull**** no matter which way you look at it.

Either we're arguing about whether she's the worst, which is dumb, because she's obviously not the worst.
Or we're just agreeing that she's bad but not the worst, which is the same **** we always talk about.

Neither debate is in any way helpful, and that's why this thread ultimately fails.

EDIT: And she's not fat. ;-;

 

[B.Link]

I think Zelda's pretty good if you took the time to really use her and study her flaws and thinking of ways to make it better =]

 

[Aibou]

Why are people still posting here? It's just going to be the same back and forth argument over and over. We all put our two-cents in already, so why must we keep fighting?

 

[Kataefi]

People are right... Mars is definitely being dead serious about this thread. But it's been exhausted now so I'm locking it based on the current responses.

Just wanna say guys, moreso @Mars... if you're prepared to learn any suboptimal character then there's no point wishing they had anything different about them. I'm not playing zelda thinking '**** I wish she had a warlock punch instead of nayru's.' There's no need for comparisons on the battlefield, just winning strategies. Man up, start sweetspotting, start outspacing, start reading your opponent, start stringing those utility moves, and if you can't crack any of that start counterpicking. Simple!