Yoshi+

[Kaotical]

You can't honestly complain about missing combos. With the mindgames and strings and combos that this creates already without the damage increase... No way man. I mean like... Egg -> Grab?? You couldn't do that before!

If the egg misses, by all means, throw another! And remember that old back-angled egg? You can now make that go all the way down and combo into/out of it. This Yoshi egg tweak in general promotes creativity and discourages spamming. I think lots of characters with centralized projectiles need something like it. But even if that doesn't happen, this spawns more interesting combos and should make other characters mains go "Wow, that was a spectacular combo video! Maybe I should think about picking up Yoshi!" from all the egg shenanigans.

Maybe.

EDIT: Alternatively to the damage, we also have the ability to make the "Bursting Egg" hitbox stay out longer. Just sayin'.

Well after I wake up, part of my day will be filled w/ some egg experiments. Creativity is a plus! Don't want people to complain that I'm camping or nothing (although I don't). Egg -> grab is the first thing I'm trying, though the outlook isn't good for that combo (hard to pull off as it is). Eggs are good kill set-ups already (egg -> u-smash), and most of Yoshi's kills I see are off the top. If this new thing can keep that and increase his edge-guarding and mindgames...well....I'll see that for myself a little later. This definitely encourages better aiming and timing, and the risk-reward ratio is a little higher.

For your EDIT, I'll have to experiment to find out whether or not I'd prefer more damage, a bigger egg burst, or if either of those are necessary at all.

For you other Brawl+ programmers (like Cape), I have to ask: is this something that would be put into the game officially? If proven to be effective, is it something that Yoshi would get and not over-buff him per se?

 

[[TSON]]

Cape is considering it based on the feedback in this thread

 

[Kaotical]

Cape is considering it based on the feedback in this thread

Well I said my initial thoughts already. The rest is up to my testing I guess.

EDIT: Just thought of this: the already-decent sized bursting hitbox in mid-air is nice for catching people, but if I have to wait for the egg to hit the ground then the burst is less useful, so it would seem by that point the egg itself would be what you're aiming with. Being that the bursting hitbox would be centered from the ground it probably wouldn't be as wide. Personally, I aim with the burst.

 

[The Cape]

Eggs burst when they hit anything. Gives them more uses at long range and provides the same effects at relatively close range. Badly thrown eggs become easier to avoid and well thrown eggs become harder to dodge. The move is a buff and nerf in one that will come down to how the player plays Yoshi.

It makes the eggs more skillful and less stupid (like a rain of fire from the sky).

 

[Naucitos]

I'd actually been thinking about buffs to yoshi's eggs for a bit now, but they weren't possible before, and since i've been away from brawl hacking for a while i didn't even know about the recent awesome stuff that has made this possible. A buff to eggs will add back one of yoshis main strategies of old, since egg toss has been getting slightly less useful as other characters got buffs to moves that were able to stop eggs, such as lucas' zair.

The eggs with longer 'fuses' so to say would be better for long range and add egg tricks as a cool option for edge guarding (Again(Finally!)) Edge cancelled eggs would be a decent edgeguard and the more you threw the more dangerous it would be because if yoshi got hit off the edge, he'd be down most of his up b momentum. However, longer fuses would kill some of the close range stuff you can do with them, and you wouldn't be able to set them up as traps in the air.

Adding time to how long the explosions last would greatly increase their usefulness in pretty much all situations. They'd be better at setting traps, better at defending and controlling space. It wouldn't be too helpful offstage, but it'd be good at pressuring people on the edge.

 

[Kaotical]

Adding time to how long the explosions last would greatly increase their usefulness in pretty much all situations. They'd be better at setting traps, better at defending and controlling space. It wouldn't be too helpful offstage, but it'd be good at pressuring people on the edge.

That's what I try to use them for now, and that's what I'm hoping this 'fix' doesn't change.

Eggs burst when they hit anything. Gives them more uses at long range and provides the same effects at relatively close range. Badly thrown eggs become easier to avoid and well thrown eggs become harder to dodge.

It almost sounds like the closer range you throw the eggs, the easier it is to approach Yoshi b/c of how much easier they would be to avoid. I understand that's how it is with a lot of projectiles but close-range ETS becomes less useful which is, again, good for kill amd combo set-ups. And smaller characters could almost get away with running straight at Yoshi going underneath the arc of the egg-throw. The eggs would be slightly more predictable if the opponent knows they're only going to burst upon contact. Yeah the eggs will be less stupid, but his close-mid range game gets nerfed it seems.

 

[Veril]

F***ing Yoshi and his god-d*** infinite float glitch. I found a new, really easy and reliable method of doing it in GSH2. F***!

Making the eggs better is something I will oppose unless it somehow is also less conducive to Yoshi being a campy b****.

 

[[TSON]]

It's not really a buff. It makes it easier to avoid the randomly thrown ones and harder to avoid ones that are aimed well.

 

[Veril]

That's a buff: Making it better for the people who actually play Yoshi well. If the eggs didn't explode until contact, with no other changes (no buffs) it would be less silly. Buffing the eggs dmg is crazy.

What are people's thoughts on the DJC-Float glitch? It isn't that hard to do and if you don't think its absurd... try SHbairing into a DJC-float, its nuts. Not even to mention the easy infinite stall against all non-projectile users except MK.

 

[shanus]

If someone with a USB Gecko simply found the animation ID of the float, it'd be a simple fix.

...

 

[[TSON]]

That's a buff: Making it better for the people who actually play Yoshi well. If the eggs didn't explode until contact, with no other changes (no buffs) it would be less silly. Buffing the eggs dmg is crazy.

Well if you don't think a damage buff is in order, how about maybe the explosion hitbox being out for 2 or 3 frames more?

 

[[TSON]]

Hmm... If the test pac wasn't working for you before, download here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?2umxrzyzw2o

 

[Kaotical]

It's not that I can't get the file, it's that I can't get to a computer with a SD reader. This comp sucks, and I rely on my buddy's comp to do all SD stuff (he's not available often).

 

[KOkingpin]

What are people's thoughts on the DJC-Float glitch? It isn't that hard to do and if you don't think its absurd... try SHbairing into a DJC-float, its nuts. Not even to mention the easy infinite stall against all non-projectile users except MK.

Actually its kinda easy to stall on projectile characters too if you are up a stock. All projectile characters but Lucario and Samus can't knock him out of super armor iirc. It really needs to be fixed if thats possible. I think its good for making people laugh cause Yoshi looks so cute trying to flap his hands to fly.

 

[The Cape]

So have we come to a verdict on these eggs or what?

 

[Kaotical]

So have we come to a verdict on these eggs or what?

I still need to get Mr. Woot to let me use his comp and download the freaking file. >_< Hate having no SD reader.

 

[Alphatron]

You could always get one of those USB drive SD readers if possible. I got one before I actually found out that my computer really DID have an SD reader after all. >_>

 

[shanus]

I still need to get Mr. Woot to let me use his comp and download the freaking file. >_< Hate having no SD reader.

You should really buy one, it's like 10$

 

[Kaotical]

You should really buy one, it's like 10$

Didn't think I needed to b/c I always had access to my buddy's comp. Doesn't seem like he's as reliable anymore for this, so I guess I will go out today and get one. Didn't wanna use the money, lol. I'm a scrooge.

 

[KOkingpin]

honestly about the new eggs im not too fond of them.

they feel awkward when i use them now cause they dont break. Although this is just because they are different. But didn't yoshi's eggs always break at one point in the air even in Yoshi's story. I can manage with both types of Eggs but the current type is still superior to the new one. If this is to promote Yoshi creativity then by all means go for it but its not gonna help stop with Yoshi camping with eggs

 

[[TSON]]

This both promotes creativity and discourages (but does not totally remove) camping. You'll learn to love it, I promise.

 

[.Marik]

I main Yoshi in Brawl+.

Beasted everyone in my region. You can expect me here more from now on.

 

[KOkingpin]

I main Yoshi in Brawl+.

Beasted everyone in my region. You can expect me here more from now on.

Are you going to Pound4?

 

[Scarlet Jile]

This both promotes creativity and discourages (but does not totally remove) camping. You'll learn to love it, I promise.

Actually, if anything, it promotes camping a lot more, since Yoshi's off-stage game is somewhat gimped with double-jump cancelling--(no reliable rising aerials means full single-jump gimp-attempts, which is predictable and not that effective).

I don't know if there were any pro Yoshis helping to develop Yoshi+, but I get the impression that most likely, they weren't very diligent, because the changes (while interesting) are not fundamentally intuitive for people who were already Yoshi mains.

Firstly, I'm just going to come out and say that there are still a lot of bugs. I don't know what the deal is with DJC, but depending on which frames I input the attack on during my double-jump, I can still perform rising aerials. Is this working as intended? Because if it is, I can't think of a good reason that it would be so finicky about input like that.

Many times when I do a DJC'd aerial too fast, I'll remain floating in my double-jump animation, and I can float around on or off stage with super-armor. This lasts indefinitely, until I input something new. While it's fun being locked in my super-armor frames, I'm pretty sure this is a glitch.

The eggs are fun to camp with, but when you've mained Yoshi since Brawl came out and gotten as used to egg-timing as I have, them not exploding is more frustrating than useful. Literally, the best use I can think of for them is tossing them below stage to screw around with recoveries.

If you're fast enough and skilled enough, you can up-throw opponents and put them into a DJC'd up-air lock until about 57%, character-depending. You can chase their DI after 57% and get a few more hits in usually if you're good, as well. This isn't a guarantee, but I can do it pretty consistently, and it's pretty easy. It's cool with me if this one doesn't get adjusted. >

Also, it kind of seems like the infinite jump glitch got removed, which is kind of a bummer. I got pretty good at gimping Snakes who recovered off-screen with that, since it gave Yoshi a sort of triple-jump.

I'm not trying to **** all over everyone's work here. I realize a lot of time and effort goes into testing and working out the kinks, and I can appreciate what you guys have accomplished. I'm just saying that it's a little early to be pulling the cord on adjustments, especially with the less-tested characters like Yoshi. I'm using 6.0 by the way.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Actually, if anything, it promotes camping a lot more, since Yoshi's off-stage game is somewhat gimped with double-jump cancelling--(no reliable rising aerials means full single-jump gimp-attempts, which is predictable and not that effective).
...
Firstly, I'm just going to come out and say that there are still a lot of bugs. I don't know what the deal is with DJC, but depending on which frames I input the attack on during my double-jump, I can still perform rising aerials. Is this working as intended? Because if it is, I can't think of a good reason that it would be so finicky about input like that.

Before you go bashing DJC, maybe you should do a little more research to learn how they implemented it. It doesn't hurt Yoshi's off-stage game since DJC is optional. The reason you are occasionally doing rising aerials is not a bug, but just because you're not aware of how the optional DJC works.
Let me explain how it works: if you do an aerial during the double-jump while not holding the jump button, you will DJC. If you do an aerial during the double-jump while still holding down the jump button, you will do a rising aerial. This is why you were getting rising aerials on occasion; you were just simply still holding the jump button without realizing it. So it's no bug, nor is it "finicky".

Many times when I do a DJC'd aerial too fast, I'll remain floating in my double-jump animation, and I can float around on or off stage with super-armor. This lasts indefinitely, until I input something new. While it's fun being locked in my super-armor frames, I'm pretty sure this is a glitch.

This is a known glitch, and people are working on fixing it.

 

[[TSON]]

Actually, if anything, it promotes camping a lot more, since Yoshi's off-stage game is somewhat gimped with double-jump cancelling--(no reliable rising aerials means full single-jump gimp-attempts, which is predictable and not that effective).

No. Hold the jump button like I've said twice already.

I don't know if there were any pro Yoshis helping to develop Yoshi+, but I get the impression that most likely, they weren't very diligent, because the changes (while interesting) are not fundamentally intuitive for people who were already Yoshi mains.

Before I'd switched over to Brawl+, I'd played some dittos with Polt. We were about equal, he'd 1stock me, I'd 1stock him, rotation. But that's irrelevant as the only thing I've done is eggs. Naucitos plays a big part in the Yoshi we currently have as well. So yes, we aren't Pikachu mains asking for Yoshi buffs.

Firstly, I'm just going to come out and say that there are still a lot of bugs. I don't know what the deal is with DJC, but depending on which frames I input the attack on during my double-jump, I can still perform rising aerials. Is this working as intended? Because if it is, I can't think of a good reason that it would be so finicky about input like that.

Don't hold the jump button if you don't want to rise.

Many times when I do a DJC'd aerial too fast, I'll remain floating in my double-jump animation, and I can float around on or off stage with super-armor. This lasts indefinitely, until I input something new. While it's fun being locked in my super-armor frames, I'm pretty sure this is a glitch.

This is actually being fixed right now.

The eggs are fun to camp with, but when you've mained Yoshi since Brawl came out and gotten as used to egg-timing as I have, them not exploding is more frustrating than useful. Literally, the best use I can think of for them is tossing them below stage to screw around with recoveries.

That is actually exactly why it was done. The explosions were more campy than they are currently because you could wall with them. Now, instead of aiming the explosions, you're aiming the egg, which is much more susceptible to airdodges and rolls and the like.

If you're fast enough and skilled enough, you can up-throw opponents and put them into a DJC'd up-air lock until about 57%, character-depending. You can chase their DI after 57% and get a few more hits in usually if you're good, as well. This isn't a guarantee, but I can do it pretty consistently, and it's pretty easy. It's cool with me if this one doesn't get adjusted. >

Lolwut. They must not be DIing rite.

I'm not trying to **** all over everyone's work here. I realize a lot of time and effort goes into testing and working out the kinks, and I can appreciate what you guys have accomplished. I'm just saying that it's a little early to be pulling the cord on adjustments, especially with the less-tested characters like Yoshi. I'm using 6.0 by the way.

Who's to say he hasn't been tested? You think GSH crew rolls out untested stuff? :I

 

[Scarlet Jile]

if you do an aerial during the double-jump while not holding the jump button, you will DJC.

Alright, that's useful. And I would have traded the ability to do rising aerials for the DJC anyway, since I played him in Melee and was bummed when they took it out in the first place. Just couldn't figure out why it was sporadic.

This is a known glitch, and people are working on fixing it.

Good to know.

Before I'd switched over to Brawl+, I'd played some dittos with Polt. We were about equal, he'd 1stock me, I'd 1stock him, rotation. But that's irrelevant as the only thing I've done is eggs. Naucitos plays a big part in the Yoshi we currently have as well. So yes, we aren't Pikachu mains asking for Yoshi buffs.

That's cool, and I have nothing against Polt or Naucitos, but when I think of Yoshi, I tend to think of Bwett or Bigman. Would be cool to get more good Yoshis helping out, since it feels a bit like a lot of the changes are based on other-character-player speculation.

The explosions were more campy than they are currently because you could wall with them. Now, instead of aiming the explosions, you're aiming the egg, which is much more susceptible to airdodges and rolls and the like.

I don't have a problem with that notion, but I'm a little confused as to why it's being considered an "improvement" when it's detracting from Yoshi's capacity in more ways than it's adding to it.

Lolwut. They must not be DIing rite.

Maybe not, but it's not too hard to do. You don't have to up-throw, that's just an easy example of a lead-in for a DJC'd u-air lock. Yoshi lands and re-hits faster than their hitstun wears off or before they land, and there's not a ton of knock-back to DI with until about 50%. Give it a shot, it's actually pretty fun.

Who's to say he hasn't been tested? You think GSH crew rolls out untested stuff? :I

I'm sure he's been tested, but he probably hasn't been tested as much as Metaknight and Snake, since there will have been less players using him, and therefore less player-feedback.

 

[Kaotical]

I've been playing Yoshi seriously, on and off, since Melee. Ever since Brawl+ came out I've been playing almost all Yoshi...he's definitely my main. I do play other characters, but not nearly as much as I play Yoshi.

A lot of the changes that were done to Yoshi were mostly inputted by Cape, and when he wanted input on Yoshi he mostly came to me, told me to test what he did to Yoshi, then either put it in or didn't. Yoshi has been tested a lot, trust me. Cape and a few other players wanted to see Yoshi jump out of shield, but he brought the idea to me about 2x shield drop speed, and I agreed with him that it would be pretty nice to have that instead of jump out of shield. Yoshi has had more attention than a lot of other characters...he is most definitely not forgotten. DJC obviously is his biggest change, and it's amazing on and off the stage. Use it right. ^_^

Concerning Yoshi's eggs: people should stop calling it an improvement cuz it's not...it's a change. It has it's pro's and con's. ETS is still in B+, and if hit close enough you should be able to combo with it.

Concerning Yoshi's DJC u-air's: fast-fallers get ***** by it. So? CF is the prime example. Yoshi's combo game is like most other characters. It's not broken, it's not weak. It's g-o-o-d. Doesn't need adjusting, especially since you can combo so many things into u-air, like b-air, u-tilt, and f-tilt to name a few, and with the b-air you can combo into u-air in midair. Not to mention d-air is almost it's own combo.

Also, if you're getting gimped as Yoshi, you're doing something wrong. His recovery game is waaaaay better than it's ever been. Re-jump out of side-b is glorious, especially since he has the wall-bomber tactic. Yoshi is hard as hell to kill on certain stages.

Don't say Yoshi hasn't had enough attention. That statement is false.

 

[JCaesar]

I'm sure he's been tested, but he probably hasn't been tested as much as Metaknight and Snake, since there will have been less players using him, and therefore less player-feedback.

Believe it or not, Yoshi+ has a lot more representation than MK+.

Brawl+ baby!

 

[.Marik]

Are you going to Pound4?

Nope. I live all the way in Canada. =[

Sadface.

 

[lord karn]

I love the new eggs. Edge-guarding with them is fun, but my favorite new use for the eggs is to avoid juggling. If you get hit really high in the air or are recovering high, you can do a weak toss of an egg and follow behind it. This really limits what your opponent can do to hit you so you can avoid getting juggled much more effectively.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

believe It Or Not, Yoshi+ Has A Lot More Representation Than Mk+.

How can this be?!

 

[.Marik]

Because Brawl+ isn't ******** and gay!

 

[kyubikirby]

wow, this is dying quickly.

I guess I'll point out that there are some vids of 6.0 yoshi in tourney play at pound 4 on JCaesars youtube page. Both singles and doubles are on there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCaesar007

 

[.Marik]

This needed to be bumped.

 

[kciD]

I really like Yoshi...he's quickly becoming one of my mains.

I just thought I'd share that.

 

[[TSON]]

So... How are the eggs faring with all of you haters?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

they're ok i guess,

 

[Elefterios]

OK? They're OP!

 

[kr3wman]

loooooooool.

Atleast you wont be able to just run up stage with walls now.