Yoshi v. Ike

[Metatitan]

Yeah but you gotta assume the other player knows what they're doing (which is something i see a lot of missing in the puff boards which explains the multiple amounts of even matchups). A good ike/player isn't just going to let you knock them into the water and our edge game isn't exactly designed for this.

 

[Airborne]

yeah and ikes know when and when not to get in the water....
ex: Pirate Ship.... nuff said

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm not saying they'd let us knock them into the water. We could just camp the center platform, however, and when we get him off the ledge, pressure him with a dair or pretty much any aerial but a bair or uair. I'm thinking that they'd either have to take the attack, or get around it someway whether it's through dodging or counterattacking. But since Ike's attacks are laggy he'd fall into the water anyways. I think it's a pretty good situation to be in when going for the edgeguard.

 

[~Firefly~]

The problem with that is, Aether has super armour, and if you're knocking him into the water from the central platform like you said, he'd likely be within range to up-B to a ledge. Even if he does take the hit, Ike will still make it back, likely damaging Yoshi in the process.

 

[Delta-cod]

Ah, that's true. =/

It's something to be aware of, the Japes waters. I guess they're not as good as I'd thought, then. I still think that Japes helps our killing capabilities as well as hurting yours, though.

 

[~Firefly~]

Hurting mine? I'm a Yoshi main too. =P I just use Ike as a secondary, so I have a good general sense about how his moveset works as well.

Yoshi generally has an easier time KOing vertically than horizontally, thanks to Uair and Usmash, so the high ceiling makes it very difficult to get KOs like that. Therefore, he has to rely on things like Fsmash and Nair to get KOs at reasonable %s. Both of these are difficult to land, especially Nair in this matchup, due to Ike's spacing capabilities. Ike, on the other hand, has a wide variety of ways to get horizontal KOs; Bair, Fair, Ftilt, Fsmash, even Jab if landed at high %s at the side platforms. Also, his vertical KO moves (Uair, Utilt, Usmash) have great power, and can still KO Yoshi later on if he's having trouble landing his other options. Ike's recovery doesn't like the water, but aside from that, the stage has quite a bit going for him.

 

[Delta-cod]

Maybe killing was the wrong word to use. =/

I just think that the water can be helpful for killing Ike off. I was playing my friend who mains Ike today and every time I managed to get him into the water, he never made it back. I don't claim he's a pro Ike or anything, but he was giving me some trouble on the more neutral stages in the game. I don't know whether or not he was just uncomfortable on Japes or if it truly is a better stage for Yoshi, I'm just trying to check any ideas I can think of.

If you play WiFi do you want to Brawl me a bit on Japes so I can get a better idea? I'm no pro, but I'd like the experience. =]

 

[~Firefly~]

I could, but I could probably count the number of times I've actually used Ike on Jungle Japes on one hand. XD Since it is Wi-fi, the water would give Ike an even more difficult time than usual. Still, I'd be up for the practice.

 

[Ussi]

Do take me on RC :D <-- favorite stage


Frigate works well against Ike.

 

[Sharky]

well just like playing bowyer's fox at the mw stuff on the 20th, im hoping to get some games in with either infern, renegade, or kirk (if kirk will be there) and ill be sure to save and upload

If Kirk shows up, tell him Sharky says hi =D

 

[bigman40]

If Kirk shows up, tell him Sharky says hi =D

Long time man. You've gotten those problems situated?

 

[Sharky]

Marik, who is this "decent" Ike you keep talking about? Because chances are he sucks, especially based on what you think of the match-up. For crying out loud, you mentioned Fsmash as if good Ikes will randomly throw it out after a dash attack. Watch videos of Kirk, San, or metroid. They are good Ikes. If they use Fsmash, it hits more often then misses because they know when to use it

And Ike combos. What part of "Jab Combos" says that he can't combo? Nair -> Jab -> Grab -> Bthrow -> Dash Attack is a combo right there, with a whooping 1 or 2 frames in which you can escape from. And I have yet to seen anyone escape a jab -> grab attempt.

BTW: You must not have read that "How to properly discuss match-ups" topic. Baiting is a HUMAN thing, not a character quality. Same with predictability. We're not talking about human qualities, but character qualities. I could argue Ike can bait well with Nair due to it's ACing, and the fact if we bait an AD, you will get hit with Uair due to the fact it outlasts ADs. The baiting part is irrelevant. The only good bits of info that I said in the last sentence is that Nair ACs and Uair outlasting ADs.

EDIT: I don't know if Sharky is considered a good Yoshi, but Kirk VS Sharky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kcXRimxafw

Notice the last KO by Kirk.

oh god please don't use these videos lol, most of our matches were closer than these two videos, but hey, that happens.

It's obvious Sharky didn't know how to fight an Ike considering he used only 11 eggs the entire match. Stocky uses more than that at the beginning. I'm not saying Sharky isn't good, but he missed so many opportunities to camp the living **** out of Kirk.

Kirk PS' that **** all day. Plus Ike isn't as vulnerable to it as you may think, Kirk knows how to approach eggs. I also only consider myself a bit above average, probably worse now that I'm seriously out of practice. Nobody around here wants to play me anymore because my community sucks and there aren't any other good players here in Syracuse.

Yoshinator doesn't play much due to IRL problems he's trying to get done.

I may be able to get to Rochester to play some more near the end of the summer, but that's about the entirety of my prospects right now. Yeah, kinda ****ty right now. You summed it up nicely. My last $500 payment to my old college is in July, then I may be able to actually afford things again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B8fqSLwSbw&feature=related

Second video. I *think* he used a few more eggs. He also got fake'd out by a taunt though, so I don't think it's the best video to use here. >_> I'll keep digging, youtube finally stopped crapping out for me.


EDIT: Aaaaaaand the rest of the Ike VS Yoshi videos on youtube appear to be crap.

OH GOD DON'T REMIND ME OF THAT MATCH. Kirk taunted, I just happened to **** up the spacing of my grab, missed it, and just gave up lmao.

Yoshi v Ike videos are veeeery rare. We just don't live in the same places.


In conclusion, there are few parts of those videos that you should actually look at. I can give a lot of advice on the match-up, but that's about it at the moment. Look at the stuff I put in the thread in the Ike boards. Personally, I think it's either even or slightly Ike. Probably the latter, it takes a very patient Yoshi to win.

 

[Kirk]

if Kirk Shows Up, Tell Him Sharky Says Hi =d

Hi Sharky!

 

[Sharky]

lol hey Kirk long time no see/talk/anything XD

and Scatz, see above post since I just now saw yours lol

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So, I played friendlies against Bwett at FS6.

How come nobody told me he used to main Ike? I was already completely outclassed, I didn't need to face someone who knew from experience what Ike could do! >_< He had to tell me to stop challenging the eggs. >_>

 

[MX778]

Yoshi gets ***** by Ike. Nuff' said.

One of the best things to do is to camp and spam the egg toss.
Spam that **** like your life depends on it (and it does!).

Do anything and everything you can to avoid the Jab Lock or F-air( and possibly N-air)
Aside from that, you should be fine.

 

[Airborne]

So, I played friendlies against Bwett at FS6.

How come nobody told me he used to main Ike? I was already completely outclassed, I didn't need to face someone who knew from experience what Ike could do! >_< He had to tell me to stop challenging the eggs. >_>

i dont think anyone knew that he used to main ike, personally. o.O

but yeah, ike is one annoying ***** to face. his retreating fairs make me want to main someone else... ike has too much range, and when you try to get inside that range, you'll just get jabbed.... only way i can think of when it comes to beating this guy is baiting him to fair or shield. =\

 

[.Marik]

How come nobody told me he used to main Ike?

I never knew that. :\

But ooooh, that must've been brutal.

A **** Yoshi player, and one who's also familiar with playing Ike thoroughly.

Yikes.

 

[Jiggy]

I seem to have trouble with Ike. His jab is annoying since it can cancel egg roll easily, and most players can use his f-air quite well, to the point of frustration for the Yoshi.

Eggs can only do so much : / I fight that mindgaming is essential for Ike.

Marik said that Ike has extreme lag in his moves. However, not all of his moves are laggy. His bair is quick, and his uair lasts a long time. Ike has slow powerful attacks, and fast powerful attacks.

 

[pwiito]

I seem to have trouble with Ike. His jab is annoying since it can cancel egg roll easily, and most players can use his f-air quite well, to the point of frustration for the Yoshi.

Eggs can only do so much : / I fight that mindgaming is essential for Ike.

Marik said that Ike has extreme lag in his moves. However, not all of his moves are laggy. His bair is quick, and his uair lasts a long time. Ike has slow powerful attacks, and fast powerful attacks.

Egg roll is not supposed to be used with yoshi at all, so it shouldn't be a problemn

Yeah ike got some fast moves but yoshi got faster moves.

Egg spam should be ok as long as u keep distance, grabs are essential for tihs match up, try keeping ike in the air, throw him of the stage, nair works when he's trying to recover from understage, just nair and quickly double jump, he'll get stage spiked, so yeah his recover is pretty punishable and predictable

 

[Jiggy]

Hey it's P_wii :D

 

[pwiito]

hey, it's jiggy ;D

 

[Sharky]

someone other than me who has good ike experience, I'm looking for good cp stages for Ike. I've got japes, rainbow cruise, and delfino as possible options at the moment. I suppose FD is ok, too. Assume Norfair is banned.

 

[Deleted member]

Delphino is definate no.
RC is fine if you are good there. Battlefield is pretty good.
Japes is good, frigate is hella good.

 

[Delta-cod]

Would you mind explaining why Delfino is so bad? Don't say the water, it's not even permanent and you can egg him out. >_>

 

[Deleted member]

Its ike's best stage, he can not get gimped cuz of stage changes, water ***** for ike, all the ledges are good for him.

Just dont, you can go ahead if you want tho i dont mind

 

[Delta-cod]

Oh, okay then. I'm not too familiar with Ike and wanted to know why it wasn't a good choice. I'd imagine the water is really only helpful to prevent gimping, since it is possible to simply egg him while he's swimming. Well, except during that one part with the 3 little pillars, but you can just wait that out. =/

 

[Sharky]

I've played against Kirk with relatively decent results on delfino, so I'm still counting that as good.

edit: how about bans, if pirate ship is already banned

 

[Deleted member]

I ban delphino xD

 

[Sharky]

well you're no help then, geez lrn2play =P

 

[Atomic Yoshi]

I sorta think delfino is good for yoshi. You can stall with eggs to wait for next tranformation. When Ike is swimming couldn't u just get above him and ground pound?

 

[Delta-cod]

You can't beat Ike by going into the water. He can just use aether and be under the water as it starts up. You're better off just standing on the edge and lobbing eggs at him.

I like Delfino because of the occasional walk offs, as well as the fact that it's okay for Yoshi. When the stage is moving you have a more typical stage, but the transformations allow for easier camping as long as you stay on the lower ends.

I can see how it's Ike's best stage, but we have an answer to most of his advantages there, as well as the advantage of walkoff edges for GR abuse. :D You can egg him if he chooses to camp in the water. The main thing we lose on Delfino is the ability to gimp him, but in some of the transformations it's still even possible to gimp. The rooftops, the shine tower, the three areas with walk offs can all be used to our advantage. The only parts which really give Ike an advantage are the 4 parts with water, but in 3 of those 4 parts, you can just egg him out. =P

 

[Deleted member]

Kay.
Id ban brinstar maybe?
Dunno, it helps his killing and its yoshis worst stage.

 

[Airborne]

Its ike's best stage, he can not get gimped cuz of stage changes, water ***** for ike, all the ledges are good for him.

Just dont, you can go ahead if you want tho i dont mind

wrong; pirate ship is his best stage. he can stall in the water.... it's not fun...

 

[Delta-cod]

I still stand by the fact that you can and should just egg him out of the water. >_>

If Brinstar is legal I will always ban it. ALWAYS!

 

[Sharky]

pirate ship isn't being included as I mentioned to assume it's a banned stage to begin with =)

the water on delfino (the beach water) is nice when the opponent is in it because the eggs sorta reset the timer on when you can jump out (to an extent of course). Seriously, I've gotten so many eggs on swimmers it's crazy.

 

[Silent Beast]

If Brinstar is legal I will always ban it. ALWAYS!

Brinstar is always legal. I mean, if it's legal in NJ, it's legal anywhere in the country. But yeah, I hate Brinstar a lot.

 

[pwiito]

ban brinstar and cp frigate or rainbow :D, not such a hard matchups if u learn how to read ike

 

[Delta-cod]

I hear some Ikes LOVE Rainbow Cruise, for whatever reason.

Frigate is a yes. I'm thinking Lylat too, but I just love Lylat, so I'm biased.

 

[Airborne]

pirate ship isn't being included as I mentioned to assume it's a banned stage to begin with =)

the water on delfino (the beach water) is nice when the opponent is in it because the eggs sorta reset the timer on when you can jump out (to an extent of course). Seriously, I've gotten so many eggs on swimmers it's crazy.

pirate ship usn't banned in the midwest..... though it should because it's thoroughly abused by infern @______________@