Yoshi Matchups & Best Stage Picks

[Rooktionary]

Ill just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qge8YU4Q6zY

 

[Purpletuce]

well. . . Shane seemed to handle Jackie when he was drunk(as he is so often), and drunk shane is much worse than sober shane. . . sober. . . is scary good.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Oh i know Eggz is good.. I played him in a MM at Apex... He 2-0'd me..

I went Falco game 1, and he solidly beat me...
Game 2 I went Yoshi, and it went last stock, high % I def know shane is good..

 

[Kimimaru]

I went to the Rule 6 regional in California. I go to college about an hour and 40 mins from where the tournament was and had some other friends going so I went with them. It was very stacked (Mango, S2J, Bladewise, etc.) and I didn't make it out of pools, but at least I did well in my matches. The best part was when someone raged in a Doubles friendly when he hit me while I was in my super armor and I N-aired him back.

 

[Purpletuce]

Too bad Shane has been drunk at the majority of tourneys I've been too with him. . . he is a cool guy though.

DJCC N-air frustrates people who aren't accustomed to playing against Yoshi, Zelgadis hates it

 

[Nogzor'z]

I like posting occasionally.
I actually have a question regarding Yoshi's D-throw on falcon. I remember playing some friendlies on FD and was under the impression that D-throw was at least a tech chase even with max DI away. To my surprise, Falcon jumped before he hit the ground (I can't remember at what percentage). Is this possible even at zero?

Maybe I'm fooling myself...
I would check but don't have a second controller/player access.

**I should post more (I have probably said this multiple times)

 

[V3ctorMan]

^Yes you should, and no I think you're right... granted I'm not sure at 0.... but when I was playing S2j, he was escaping my dthrow follow ups with slightly away DI....

I was sad...

Idk the numbers tho...

 

[Purpletuce]

Most characters are safe from D-throw if they DI away, in my experience, then again, I usually only go for grabs if I'm in a good position, so it doesn't matter too much.

I want more Angel posts!

 

[leffen]

jesus you guys post way too much nonsense

I have done numerous writeups on the falco matchup Kimimaru, if you want to know anything specific then ask away. (I think its around 60-40 in ntsc).

A few things that you probably need to work on:

-managing edge invincibility, and doing the shortest nair ledgehop possible (vital for edgeguarding his up B since it breaks your DJ)
-runoff nair/bair against semi low firebirds.
-jumpoff nair (reverse if possible) is a great edgeguard that catches a lot of his options.
-If you get him barely offstage, be ready to parry->nair/usmash->nair his DJ dair or DJCC->Nair (before he lands)
-Falcos(and Foxs) tail is always vulnerable when they're shielding, even if they have a full shield. Low fairs spaced into them, dsmash (walk into them and dsmash the other way if you're close) along with late djc nairs makes it really really hard for him to shield your stuff.
-Shield dropping is a absolute must to learn, it raaaaapes him.
-Parrying-Powershielding lasers is extremely good, learn it. (Powershield->Bair is a **** approach).
-Learn to uair his dair/nair/bair when hes falling.
-If he starts to shine you offstage then start doing an aerial just before he shines you so that you just get height from it.





@Angel. To prevent dthrow from being DI'd away you should buffer the throw with cstick down (does it asap), I don't know why people don't do this yet because I've been talking about it for super long.

In the event that Fastfallers still DI away (you can hold the grab and pummel to bait a DI away) you should WD after them/Uthrow.
WD after leads to dsmash/ftilt/nair (catch their jump) and if they DI the uthrow away/behind it gives a guaranteed utilt/dsmash/ftilt depending on percents.

 

[Kimimaru]

Purpletuce actually wanted more on the Falco matchup, but I did learn a good bit from what you just wrote.

Do you think the Yoshi Bomb ledgestall is the best way to manage ledge invincibility? I've been practicing it a lot and I see that it can help a lot, but I'm just wondering what you think about it. I think ECEs can work too, but they have a slightly higher risk involved because they don't beat Firefox/Firebird.

 

[Purpletuce]

Lots of awesome advice, some are already use, some I've never heard of(reverse D-smash on shield is new to me). Thanks a bunch Leffen. (open to anyone) how do you practice powershield, I've read baby shadow balls before, and I've tried lasers before, but I can't get it down. (I just bought a non-hdtv, that might help).

@Kimimaru, I think Yoshi Bomb ledgestall is the hardest to SD with, but I don't do any of them 100% invincible. DJ->waveland->regrab is what I've been practicing, because I feel it is the most versatile.

 

[Kimimaru]

You don't even have to do the Yoshi Bomb ledgestall as quickly as you can; it's just my go-to way of renewing ledge invincibility. I also really like the waveland -> regrab, but the timing for a good one on each stage is a bit different so I'm more hesitant to integrate it into my play.

 

[Rooktionary]

I went to the Rule 6 regional in California.

I live in cali and try to go to every monthly. We should yoshi ditto :D

 

[Kimimaru]

I should be able to go to the next one if I can get a ride and don't have too much homework. If that's the case then sure thing!

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kimi, update your location.

 

[Purpletuce]

Second what KK says.

Also, how far are you from Oregon? It is possible I might end up in the southern-most coastal town of Oregon, Gold Beach, and we might be able to meet up :D

 

[Kimimaru]

I live on the east coast and go to school on the west coast. Next week I'll be moving back into college for the new school year.

Purpletuce, I looked it up and it'd be an 8 hour drive .

 

[Purpletuce]

So that probably won't happen. Although if Oregon makes a carpool to go to a California regional, I'll keep you posted. Down for the Yoshi ditto :D

 

[Kimimaru]

Leffen, what do you think is the best way to approach Marth? I tend to space D-tilt or catch him with a B-air, but I want to know what your thoughts are on this.

 

[Kimimaru]

Double post again, but I updated the guide with the Peach matchup.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yoshi vs Ness

GO GO GO

 

[Purpletuce]

Yoshi v. Ness? I got this, I've played this MU often, 2 people where I live (Corvallis during school year) have him as a secondary. I'll post about it once I shower/eat/etc. Still sleepy. . .

 

[V3ctorMan]

This MU is MADD annoying... I've played Hbox's Ness.. I think Leffen has also... this MU is annoying... I think Yoshi wins still, but not as easy, as it seems it would be... (that or my aggro style sucks vs ness, (which is prolly what it is) >>

I've played this MU alot as well

 

[Kimimaru]

You guys are lucky. Most of the people I play with rarely, if ever, play any characters below Samus in the current tier list .

 

[Purpletuce]

I uh. . . got distracted. My opinons/what I do vs. Ness:

His Fair is pretty good at approaching you, and has good knockback at low %, and can kill you easily if you lose your jump (same with his dash and other moves, I've died from not being cautious enough with my DJ)
Your projectile is better than his "projectiles", because you can actually use it. . .
Yoshi is always better on platforms, so I like to stick with them here.
Ness is pretty light weight, and you're heavy, so he will die at much lower %s, trades are good for you.
This might just be me, but for some reason when I first played the MU it took a while to adjust to his recovery, he doesn't get much vertical with his DJ at first, so adjust your timing accordingly to edgegaurd, and if he goes into Up-B, just throw an egg behind him, or jump into the little ball. . . even if you uses the recovery, it is laggy enough for you to hit him anyway.
His D-air/B-air are pretty good at breaking your jump, but since the B-air is a sweetspot and Yoshi is very maneuverable, I found my friends went for the D-air more often(one of them thought Ness's D-air always breaks Yoshi's DJ, no idea where people hear these things)

It should be noted that I've never played an actual Ness player, so there may be some Ness tricks I haven't seen. . .

Ness is annoying, but compared to the high tiers my friends usually play, he seemed like a much easier MU than I was used to.

 

[Kimimaru]

Ness is one of my secondaries, and to be honest I don't think he can do much against Yoshi. He can probably pull of a few DJC U-airs or some weak N-airs at lower percents, but aside that he can't combo Yoshi, and his B-air is the only reliable attack he can use to break Yoshi's double jump. A Thunder Jacket can be problematic, but Yoshi can deal with it just fine by using Egg Lay (not 100% sure) or a U-smash. Egg Toss destroys his recovery as well as D-air offstage, and he can't really do much to prevent Yoshi from recovering. Also because Yoshi is so heavy, Ness will have a very hard time killing him. Yoshi is also way faster than Ness and actually has options when he's above the opponent.

In my opinion, all Yoshi has to worry about is getting gimped by Ness' F-air without a jump.

 

[Izuhu]

If both characters are played at its best with the current metagame I feel that Ness will win. Though I like Yoshi better :3

- Ness has a better B-air, D-air, and (in some cases F-air)
- Ness has more spacing moves like F-air, his dash attack, and (PK Fire which I don't recommend unless attacking a opponent that is off stage due to buffer time)
- Ness and Yoshi are equally good when it comes to combo-ing with the U-air (excluding the damage)
- Ness has a better U-Tilt (to me)
- Yoshi has a better F-tilt and Down special
- Yoshi has a better D-Tilt when you need your space (Helps alot when you need to stop opponents from pressuring you especailly at low damage where you can crouch cancel.)
- Ness has a better D-Tilt when you wanna edge guard and Yoshi is good at that too lol
- Ness can get trapped in his own Down-special with lasers (so I heard correct me if I'm wrong) x3
- Yoshi's Neutral B can be good sometimes..though sucks when you play against computers that N-air as soon as they get out of the egg
- Ness has a better recovery with his Up-B ( unless you take the risk and touch his PK thunder ball and hope not to get hit when Ness hits himself with it)
- Yoshi can't recover for shizz with his Up-B (excluding the recovery his Up-B is good in some cases). However, he can use his double jump and air dodge to recover
- Yoshi mains get mad when they can't recover because they lost their jump <3
- Ness neutral B....uhh...good? for opponents of stage I guess?
- In the DJC Game(Double Jump Cancel) Ness is superior because of his aerials

Spoiler

Yoshi would be Godlike if he had Brawl's Up-B that gave him a lil boost when recovering combined with how fast he buffered his moves in ssb64.

P.S Yoshi is more fun to play on platforms :D

 

[Purpletuce]

^What?

(in order)
-You can't just compare moves to moves . . . ex: comparing Yoshi's F-air to Ness's F-air? Completely different, not applicable for comparison.
-PK fire/dash attack shouldn't be used for spacing.
-Yoshi does more damage, has a better hitbox and a better trajectory in his U-air, so I think Yoshi juggles better.
-disagree
-Yoshi does have a better F-tilt IMO, but Yoshi's down special is situational, and why did you even mention Ness's down-B?
-stop doing this comparison thing. . .
-seriously, this is nonsense
-even more nonsense. . . seriously, what in the hell are you talking about?
-lol egg lay computers. . .
-better doesn't say much
-obviously
-what?
-no
-no
-no

Spoiler

no

This was fun.

 

[Kimimaru]

Well, not only do I disagree with most of what you said, Izuhu, but I don't think you understand both characters well enough from a competitive standpoint. Yoshi also bypasses several rules that every other character in the game abides by, which gives him considerable advantages over Ness, especially in this metagame. I'll list these out:

-Super armor on double jump
-Shield that never changes size
-Almost completely invincible forward and backward rolls with the exception of a tiny hitbox in his center
-No shieldstun for Yoshi when hit in shield
-Absorbing attacks via parrying, which uses the 6 invincible frames of his "starting shield" animation

Furthermore, comparing moves to other moves doesn't prove much at all. Ness has terrible matchups against most of the other characters in the game, and this is coming from someone who thinks Ness is better than most people think (though not by much).

 

[Izuhu]

lol I see what you mean.....I apologize for my ignorance of the competitive view. Though I don't know why I didn't mention Yoshi's parry and his super armor when I know about them....silly me lol

 

[Purpletuce]

After reading my post I sound like a ****. S'all good, we all learning.

 

[Kimimaru]

I noticed that Yoshi does worse against A tier (excluding Marth) than S tier.

EDIT: I played lots of friendlies with some great players yesterday. At the end of a Doubles match it was me vs Alan (Peach) and when he was far from me it didn't seem like he had an answer to my Egg Tosses, so I ended up winning by racking up damage and going for the kill. I think that this might be one of the best moves against Peach.

 

[TheLake]

Can somone explain yoshis throws?

Like when to use which ones on which characters

and what you can do out of them

cheese and spank you


oh and yoshi ***** ness

 

[Mind Trick]

You generally want to use either downthrow or upthrow.

The other two are kinda bad, but I guess they are useable near the edge against characters with bad recoveries. There's also this gimmick fthrow to another grab on floaties, but it will probably work only once, it is in no way guaranteed.

Downthrow is one of the best combo starters if you get no DI on it (buffer it) for fastfallers on all %'s, and for floaties on low %'s. You generally want to djc upair fastfallers after throwing, or if the window is too tight (eg opponent is 0%) stuff like upsmash, ftilt, uptilt, djc nair to followup.

On floaties most of the time you won't get more than 1 or 2 upairs, if you can, try to finish with a fulljump fair (to techchase) before they are out of reach. This is not necessarily bad though, if the opponent's character has trouble coming down.

Now up throw gets them less up in the air and on fastfallers this can mean combo into downsmash (I think for spacies after around 85%). For floaties it means you can still connect upairs, when downthrow wouldt let you.

 

[Kimimaru]

Buffered D-throw works great! Also thanks for the U-throw advice, Mind Trick. I haven't pulled off a U-throw -> D-smash yet because I've always grabbed them at ~93% so I guess there isn't too much leeway for the combo, but it's still useful nonetheless (especially on the edge).

 

[Cheebs]

I find uthrow -> dsmash always looks nice, and most people aren't going to expect it.

 

[Purpletuce]

Most people don't expect Yoshi period

On another note: random Yoshi things I've been messing with/implementing:

Taking matches off state ranked players regularly. Spacing with F-smash is awesome, useful against agile Falcons, keeps them from being able to go super aggressive, kind of slows them down. Spacing F-smash against getup attacks seems awesome, hard to space in a hurry though.

Fun dumb tactic to scare opponents and buy time. . . spam DJC in the air for no reason, they don't know what to do and have to think about it. . . don't get hit though. Dash attack > firefox. (I think I got this from Leffen, super us

 

[Kimimaru]

Dash attack in general is a safe option on airborne opponents (barring Jiggs and Peach) because most good players will space their attacks well and dash attack has invincibility on your head where they'd normally hit you. Just don't use it too often or its usefulness will wear out quickly.

 

[DerfMidWest]

That doesnt seem very safe at all. They can DJ to bait it and punish your end lag easily.

 

[Kimimaru]

I meant while they're in an aerial, but I didn't mention that; sorry for the confusion.

Anyway, that's why it's not good to use too often. If they're baiting it then that means they know you'll do it, which means you've been too predictable with it.