Jupz
Smash Master
i only just picked up bowser, but i use DDD and my friend uses diddy
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Yet Another Bowser Matchup Thread|Week 3: Diddy/Falco
- Thread starter Mmac
- Start date
- Status
Zezima0123
Smash Apprentice
wait so...lets say its 50:20 which one would be bowsers? the 20?
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
...lol
50+60=100?!?!?!
50+60=100?!?!?!
Zezima0123
Smash Apprentice
lol fixed now sumone answer meh question!
wait so...lets say its 50:20 which one would be bowsers? the 20?
wait so...lets say its 50:20 which one would be bowsers? the 20?
Mmac
Smash Lord
Bowser is always the first number....
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
50+20=100?!?!?
Popertop
Smash Champion
this is a lot of win.
Although I could see matchups eventually being written that way, as a better indicator of advantages, because it's not always as simple as 40:60 or 30:70
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
you wanna do a matchup that everyone would know? like marth, i guarantee we could discuss marth.
falco seems like 45-55 falco, maybe 40-60
diddy is unknown cause its such a weird *** matchup
update falco and do someone like marth/someone else thats really common and the board will start up again
falco seems like 45-55 falco, maybe 40-60
diddy is unknown cause its such a weird *** matchup
update falco and do someone like marth/someone else thats really common and the board will start up again
Blad01
Smash Lord
Falco can (apparently) 0-to-death Bowser if he follow the Dair with a edgehog / falling aerial (an aerial could be escaped).
He also have a lot of spacing advantages on Bowser.
In the airs, Falco wins : Lasers, Nair, Bair, Reflector.
On the ground, Falco wins too :
Long-range : SHL, SHDL, IAP (Immediate Aerial Phantasm)
Mid-Range : Reflector, SH Dair. However, it's the more even range, Bowser's tilts, and SH aerials are a pain.
Close-range : Falco has jab (3 frames) to grab, FTilt, UTilt. Bowser has jab and grab too, and Up B so i would say this is even or slightly in Bowser's advantage.
Racking up damages : Falco has the advantage with the chaingrab and lasers. He can also juggle Bowser pretty well.
Bowser has some good capabilities in this area, like Grab release, Over B follows-ups... However, his best move to annoy the opponent (Firebreath) can't work on Falco very well.
Killing : Well... Falco has the O-to-death. If he doesn't get it, Bowser wins here, of course.
Edgeguard : Bowser is not really hard to edge guard with Bair. His Up B, if his multi-hits are annoying, doesn't have a very good range.
Falco is not hard to edgeguard neither if you outsmart your opponent, but Bowser is not the most annoying here, and you still have to guess what Falco will use to recover.
So yeah, advantage to Falco.
65-35 Falco in my opinion. That says : Big Advantage to Falco, but not unwinnable if the Bowser outsmarts the Falco, and if Falco doesn't get the grab.
He also have a lot of spacing advantages on Bowser.
In the airs, Falco wins : Lasers, Nair, Bair, Reflector.
On the ground, Falco wins too :
Long-range : SHL, SHDL, IAP (Immediate Aerial Phantasm)
Mid-Range : Reflector, SH Dair. However, it's the more even range, Bowser's tilts, and SH aerials are a pain.
Close-range : Falco has jab (3 frames) to grab, FTilt, UTilt. Bowser has jab and grab too, and Up B so i would say this is even or slightly in Bowser's advantage.
Racking up damages : Falco has the advantage with the chaingrab and lasers. He can also juggle Bowser pretty well.
Bowser has some good capabilities in this area, like Grab release, Over B follows-ups... However, his best move to annoy the opponent (Firebreath) can't work on Falco very well.
Killing : Well... Falco has the O-to-death. If he doesn't get it, Bowser wins here, of course.
Edgeguard : Bowser is not really hard to edge guard with Bair. His Up B, if his multi-hits are annoying, doesn't have a very good range.
Falco is not hard to edgeguard neither if you outsmart your opponent, but Bowser is not the most annoying here, and you still have to guess what Falco will use to recover.
So yeah, advantage to Falco.
65-35 Falco in my opinion. That says : Big Advantage to Falco, but not unwinnable if the Bowser outsmarts the Falco, and if Falco doesn't get the grab.
Blad01:
I am pretty sure that Bowser can meteor cancel Dair after chainthrow.. I am not sure though.
Also, Bowser have (nearly) 0-death chaingrab too (with grab releases). I definately wouldn´t say that falco has that high advantage, as bowser isn´t that gimpable as you say. DIing up works very well and I doubt falco can effectively gimp him unless he hit him with Dsmash.
I am pretty sure that Bowser can meteor cancel Dair after chainthrow.. I am not sure though.
Also, Bowser have (nearly) 0-death chaingrab too (with grab releases). I definately wouldn´t say that falco has that high advantage, as bowser isn´t that gimpable as you say. DIing up works very well and I doubt falco can effectively gimp him unless he hit him with Dsmash.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
yeah, bowser has his own 0 - death, especially if you do neutral b ledge guard - regrab when they DI up.
the only difference is, falco has a % limit (avoidable by camping falco till he lasers you) whereas bowser is applicable everywhere else. also, bowser on the ground has some crazy stuff, it'd be your 3 frame jab again our frame 6 upb. the difference being our upb is frame 1-5 invincible
which is why i think it's a little smaller than you think
the camp is really annoying though
the only difference is, falco has a % limit (avoidable by camping falco till he lasers you) whereas bowser is applicable everywhere else. also, bowser on the ground has some crazy stuff, it'd be your 3 frame jab again our frame 6 upb. the difference being our upb is frame 1-5 invincible
which is why i think it's a little smaller than you think
the camp is really annoying though
Popertop
Smash Champion
can someone play a video of them beating a good falco with Bowser?
like I just can't see it happening in my head.
like I just can't see it happening in my head.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APeGIgtTN3I
It's really outdated but it's better then nothing I guess. Like I couldn't even upb out of shield on command in that vid because tap jump was off and I didn't come up with an alternative until a few weeks later. Chibo also mains ROB.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Just blow fire.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Mreh is re-taking over the Matchup Thread. Everyone worship him now.....
Or just stare at his Sig.
Or just stare at his Sig.
I'm free!
![]()
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
^ shut up pussycat, and go get me a machiatto
EDIT: italian spiderman is too good
EDIT: italian spiderman is too good
MrEh
Smash Hero
True dat.
Does anyone else think that the Falco matchup is around 40-60 to 45-55?
Falco has all sorts of crap to use in this fight, like his chaingrab and lasers. However, it's not really all that bad for us. Bowser's ground game overpowers Falco, and he has a chaingrab of his own. This supplements the fact that Bowser edgeguards Falco very well and has excellent grab releases against him. Predictable recovery=Bowser *****.
Yeah, the laser spam is annoying, and Falco does have some good air game, but we can deal with the chaingrab. Bowser's tilts and jabs can make it pretty hard for Falco to land the grab (he's definately no Dedede), and fortress OoS stops a lot of his attacks.
I think that it's agreed that the Bowser-Falco match up is 45-55 in Falco's favor. Unless anyone objects, I believe that we should save Diddy Kong until later and continue on to R.O.B. I really want to hear Sliq's opinion on this one.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Sounds good to me. I'll send Mmac a message to update the chart and such.
Since ROB is next on the tier list, I guess we can discuss him. It really doesn't matter to me, since they're both high tier jerks anyway. Robot or monkey, it makes no difference to me.
Okay ROB....
I hate him with a passion. He's a camping machine. Pun intended.
The laser and Gyro spam is really difficult for Bowser, since he's so freaking huge and it forces him to approach. Then ROB's got his fast jabs and tilts, and the spot dodge->Dsmash shenanigans. (not he biggest problem for Bowser though)
Obviously, ROB is ungimpable, and that sucks.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Not to mention his ftilt outranges bowser's ftilt, atleast I think so.
His projectile spam isn't that hard to deal with if your good at powershielding, and Bowser's upb beats his downsmash because of the beginning frames are invinicble. I would suggest not approaching ROB with klaw jumping because his projectiles will **** you while in the air, its best to stay grounded. Once you get inside of ROB go for Grabs and or jabs, make sure to do fast moves or he'll punish very easily.
I also agree that Bowser vs Falco is 45:55 Falco favor.
Off topic:
I played mew2king in tournament a few days ago with Bowser, first match I just barely lost, and second match 2 stock high %, but he thinks Bowser is high tier :D
Then in grand finals I 2 stocked him with gnw lol, but he still won the set 3-1
MrEh
Smash Hero
I'm pretty sure it does. ROB's Ftilt is bananas.
That's why I think that his Dsmash isn't a big problem. Every time I see a ROB spot dodging, I instinctively use the Fortress. Then again, I do that against every character I play against.
Bowser's Jab is like, my favorite move in this matchup. It comes out fast, has minimal lag, and it's great for slapping ROB around. Messes with the spot dodge occasionally too.
Normally I would use my Ftilt, but ROB players usually just spot dodge into all sorts of BS, so that's why I love the Jab.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
rob has major ko problems against bowser though.
i'm not 100% on it, but he can't ko dk's till like 140 if he gimps, bowser should be around the same range.
also, firebreath is good here because you can stay out of tilt range and constantly pressure so he can't shield/spotdodge.
also, no gimps, but bair will kill anyway. he can't airdodge during recovery, go for your big attacks. uair or bair would ko if he was knocked off the ledge
i'm not 100% on it, but he can't ko dk's till like 140 if he gimps, bowser should be around the same range.
also, firebreath is good here because you can stay out of tilt range and constantly pressure so he can't shield/spotdodge.
also, no gimps, but bair will kill anyway. he can't airdodge during recovery, go for your big attacks. uair or bair would ko if he was knocked off the ledge
MrEh
Smash Hero
Fire also stops the Gyro. (not that it's really helpful for that)
Good think Bowser's Fire is useful in this matchup. ROB is pretty big, and fire is pretty darn annoying to big characters.
A funny thing you can do is grab release into Fire Breath. A lot of ROB players instinctively try to spot dodge when they're released from a grab, so this can be used as a useful trick.
Good think Bowser's Fire is useful in this matchup. ROB is pretty big, and fire is pretty darn annoying to big characters.
A funny thing you can do is grab release into Fire Breath. A lot of ROB players instinctively try to spot dodge when they're released from a grab, so this can be used as a useful trick.
Sudai
Stuff here
From a ROB's perspective.
Advantages:
ROB:
-Camp Happy. Bowser is a big, slowish target.
-Wins in the air. (Explained Later)
-Bowser has a hard time punishing ROB's blind spot. (Explained later)
-Super Recovery.
-DThrow sets up for some very nice punishing up till mid percents due to Bowser's downward blind spot and heavy weight.
ROB:
-Fortress (Grounded and Aerial explained later)
-Lives forever with proper DI.
-Can kill us fairly easily due to large strength.
-Can't Gimp a smart Bowser
Approach Game
ROB easily makes Bowser approach due to Bowser's lack of projectiles and large body. Bowser doesn't have many approach options versus ROB. Infinite Klaw approaches get eaten up by gyros and lasers. Bowser should simply walk and powershield. Once within range to punish projectiles, ROBs will resort to tilts. ROB's FTilt beats any kind of aerial approach Bowser can make and out ranges Bowser's own FTit. There's only three "safe" options. SHAD. DTilt. Fire breath. SHAD works by baiting the ROB to FTilt, expecting a FAir. DTilt I'm unsure of but I think it has enough range and shield to be safe on block, can someone help me on this one? Fire breath is kind of safe but it won't actually allow you to approach. It's not hard to see the fire breath and ROB has plenty of time to jump back and laser. Distance from the edge isn't an issue for ROB with this so being "trapped" at the ledge doesn't really work like it would againt a character like Zelda.
Ground Combat
ROB's FTilt out ranges everything Bowser can do except -maybe- DTilt (I'm not 100% on this). It's not too too difficult for Bowser to get in, but once he does, ROB's fast Jab and DTilt are usually enough to push him out. ROBs, don't spotdodge, you will eat a fortress. In theory this area almost seems impossible for Bowser, but that's just theory.
Air Game
ROB beats Bowser here. ROB's FAir out ranges Bowser's FAir and outspeeds his BAir...and is disjointed. The same can be said about ROB's BAir as well. Bowser's slow UAir is bad at punishing ROB's blind spot but it is still possible to be hit by one. ROB's UAir beats out Bowser's DAir when perfectly spaced due to being slightly disjointed, but spacing it poorly will get you hit for days. I don't see Bowsers use the DAir often anyway. I really think Bowser should be playing a ground game because, again, in theory ROB beats him in the air but I also think it's a much worse beating in the air than on the ground. I personally think Bowser should head off stage in an aerial situation and attempt to get the ledge with either a fortress or a Bowser Bomb as getting there is a lot safer for him than attempting to get through ROB's great air game.
Recovery
Don't be surprised if Bowser jumps out to edge guard you due to his large horizontal recovery, but it shouldn't be too common since ROB's FAir is enough to cover any attack Bowser would do out there to edge guard us. Be wary of the Edgehog > Get-up attack when Bowser is <100% because it will knock you back off stage and is -very- quick and it's hard to beat with BAir. This combined with a mix-up of Fire Breath can knock out a lot of ROB's fuel, so be careful. I tend to just go under the stage (if possible) against Bowsers due to this. When edge guarding Bowser, don't bother with FAir gimps, a well timed fortress will go through a FAir. BAirs are very effective due to the lasting hitbox and high priority. Even BAirs aren't too good though as Bowser can simply wait to Up-B if he expects it and has his double jump left. Don't expect too many gimps on a smart Bowser/
The Hard Part, Killing
Not really that hard for Bowser, but for ROB. Bowser being heavy means ROB has to get him rather high before any of his kill moves are effective, however reverse NAirs eat Bowser's face. Its fast enough and disjointed enough to beat out Bowser's FAir in the air. If the Bowser stays grounded, however, things get a lot harder. I'm really not too sure on the best killing options in this situation, however if you can force Bowser off stage with a fully charged laser or gyro, spacing the NAir isn't too terribly difficult against the fortress.
Little Tricks For this match-up
Bowser's Grab Release
-Bowser can grab release ROB into a tilt. (I think the DTilt, someone please correct me if I'm wrong) Overall it's not too scary, a nice damage builder, but it is guaranteed. Do -not- try to spot-dodge it because if the Bowser notices you doing this they can Grab Release > Fire Breath for even more damage. I tend to spam Roll away as this will get you out of range of everything if Bowser tries anything other than his guaranteed hit.
-I went look at the Bowser Grab Release thread...Bowser can do some stupid things to ROB. We want to air break because ground breaking will spell death for us. Fotate Joystick (as per usual) and mash Y or X to air break. He'll get a FAir but the grab release thread claims Bowser can regrab, FTilt, DTilt, Jab, Klaw, or Down B us if we ground break. Ghey. His small grab range combined with out fast DTilt, Jab, and DSmash should save us from getting caught by his grab too often, but just know if you do get grabbed you want to force an air break.
Bowsercide
-Hold towards the stage when Bowser does this as it's your only chance at survival. If you get caught by it and you're at a higher percent than Bowser, you're screwed. Shouldn't be too hard to avoid it though due to its small range compared to FTilt and FAir (both being disjointed)
I think I'm done? Platforms are -bad- for ROB in this match-up so go to places like FD. I tend to CP Bowsers to Frigate Orpheon and ban Japes. Too many up-b tricks on Japes.
I'm gonna go ahead and say this is about 40:60, ROB's advantage after thinking about it. Once I find out how well DTilt works against ROB, I may change my opinion to 45:55 in ROB's favor, but I don't think the DTilt's enough to push this match-up to Neutral or Bowser Advantage.
Advantages:
ROB:
-Camp Happy. Bowser is a big, slowish target.
-Wins in the air. (Explained Later)
-Bowser has a hard time punishing ROB's blind spot. (Explained later)
-Super Recovery.
-DThrow sets up for some very nice punishing up till mid percents due to Bowser's downward blind spot and heavy weight.
ROB:
-Fortress (Grounded and Aerial explained later)
-Lives forever with proper DI.
-Can kill us fairly easily due to large strength.
-Can't Gimp a smart Bowser
Approach Game
ROB easily makes Bowser approach due to Bowser's lack of projectiles and large body. Bowser doesn't have many approach options versus ROB. Infinite Klaw approaches get eaten up by gyros and lasers. Bowser should simply walk and powershield. Once within range to punish projectiles, ROBs will resort to tilts. ROB's FTilt beats any kind of aerial approach Bowser can make and out ranges Bowser's own FTit. There's only three "safe" options. SHAD. DTilt. Fire breath. SHAD works by baiting the ROB to FTilt, expecting a FAir. DTilt I'm unsure of but I think it has enough range and shield to be safe on block, can someone help me on this one? Fire breath is kind of safe but it won't actually allow you to approach. It's not hard to see the fire breath and ROB has plenty of time to jump back and laser. Distance from the edge isn't an issue for ROB with this so being "trapped" at the ledge doesn't really work like it would againt a character like Zelda.
Ground Combat
ROB's FTilt out ranges everything Bowser can do except -maybe- DTilt (I'm not 100% on this). It's not too too difficult for Bowser to get in, but once he does, ROB's fast Jab and DTilt are usually enough to push him out. ROBs, don't spotdodge, you will eat a fortress. In theory this area almost seems impossible for Bowser, but that's just theory.
Air Game
ROB beats Bowser here. ROB's FAir out ranges Bowser's FAir and outspeeds his BAir...and is disjointed. The same can be said about ROB's BAir as well. Bowser's slow UAir is bad at punishing ROB's blind spot but it is still possible to be hit by one. ROB's UAir beats out Bowser's DAir when perfectly spaced due to being slightly disjointed, but spacing it poorly will get you hit for days. I don't see Bowsers use the DAir often anyway. I really think Bowser should be playing a ground game because, again, in theory ROB beats him in the air but I also think it's a much worse beating in the air than on the ground. I personally think Bowser should head off stage in an aerial situation and attempt to get the ledge with either a fortress or a Bowser Bomb as getting there is a lot safer for him than attempting to get through ROB's great air game.
Recovery
Don't be surprised if Bowser jumps out to edge guard you due to his large horizontal recovery, but it shouldn't be too common since ROB's FAir is enough to cover any attack Bowser would do out there to edge guard us. Be wary of the Edgehog > Get-up attack when Bowser is <100% because it will knock you back off stage and is -very- quick and it's hard to beat with BAir. This combined with a mix-up of Fire Breath can knock out a lot of ROB's fuel, so be careful. I tend to just go under the stage (if possible) against Bowsers due to this. When edge guarding Bowser, don't bother with FAir gimps, a well timed fortress will go through a FAir. BAirs are very effective due to the lasting hitbox and high priority. Even BAirs aren't too good though as Bowser can simply wait to Up-B if he expects it and has his double jump left. Don't expect too many gimps on a smart Bowser/
The Hard Part, Killing
Not really that hard for Bowser, but for ROB.
Bowser being heavy means ROB has to get him rather high before any of his kill moves are effective, however reverse NAirs eat Bowser's face. Its fast enough and disjointed enough to beat out Bowser's FAir in the air. If the Bowser stays grounded, however, things get a lot harder. I'm really not too sure on the best killing options in this situation, however if you can force Bowser off stage with a fully charged laser or gyro, spacing the NAir isn't too terribly difficult against the fortress. Little Tricks For this match-up
Bowser's Grab Release
-I went look at the Bowser Grab Release thread...Bowser can do some stupid things to ROB. We want to air break because ground breaking will spell death for us. Fotate Joystick (as per usual) and mash Y or X to air break. He'll get a FAir but the grab release thread claims Bowser can regrab, FTilt, DTilt, Jab, Klaw, or Down B us if we ground break. Ghey. His small grab range combined with out fast DTilt, Jab, and DSmash should save us from getting caught by his grab too often, but just know if you do get grabbed you want to force an air break.
Bowsercide
-Hold towards the stage when Bowser does this as it's your only chance at survival. If you get caught by it and you're at a higher percent than Bowser, you're screwed. Shouldn't be too hard to avoid it though due to its small range compared to FTilt and FAir (both being disjointed)
I think I'm done? Platforms are -bad- for ROB in this match-up so go to places like FD. I tend to CP Bowsers to Frigate Orpheon and ban Japes. Too many up-b tricks on Japes.
I'm gonna go ahead and say this is about 40:60, ROB's advantage after thinking about it. Once I find out how well DTilt works against ROB, I may change my opinion to 45:55 in ROB's favor, but I don't think the DTilt's enough to push this match-up to Neutral or Bowser Advantage.
You suck, cheating with the edit feature.
Sudai
Stuff here
Edit button ftw. I like to cover my bases when I make post like that so I went check the CG thread (I knew there was one but by that point in the post I didn't feel like copy+pasting so just assumed and checked after).
JCaesar
Smash Hero
I rarely play Bowsers but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.
Camping works really well against Bowser. After a few shots, well-aimed lasers and slow-moving gyros will start shieldpoking, which makes it really difficult for him to approach. ROB never has to go on the offensive in this matchup, but it's worth following up things like dthrows. And it's always worth getting gyros on the ground. Glidetossing works incredibly well against large characters.
I think ROB's utilt is an incredibly useful tool in this matchup, especially at low %. Bowser will get caught in it, and if he doesn't know to DI into the hit, then he will take major damage, and the final one can be followed up with uair. I don't believe he can up-B out of it because I don't think any other characters can.
In the air, ROB's fair and uair will eat Bowser alive. Uair does ridiculous amounts of damage and is easy to land on big characters. ROB's blindspot below him isn't nearly as vulnerable as it is in most matchups.
I don't think Bowser's flame is a great approach. He's just asking for a retreating laser. It's pretty good for pinning ROB near the edge but ROB can just fly over it.
Obviously this is not a good match for ROB to spam spotdodge in, but that doesn't really hurt ROB's ground game at all, just certain styles of players who have bad habits.
ROB's CPs: Frigate, Luigi's if it's legal, anything big and flat.
Bowser's hard to gimp and even harder to kill, but ROB is hard for Bowser to touch at all. In the end for ROB, fighting Bowser is like fighting DDD without multiple jumps, a broke-a$$ grab, and a broke-a$$ bair. AKA cake.
60:40 ROB.
If anything I said is wrong feel free to correct me. I admit I don't know a whole lot about Bowser.
Camping works really well against Bowser. After a few shots, well-aimed lasers and slow-moving gyros will start shieldpoking, which makes it really difficult for him to approach. ROB never has to go on the offensive in this matchup, but it's worth following up things like dthrows. And it's always worth getting gyros on the ground. Glidetossing works incredibly well against large characters.
I think ROB's utilt is an incredibly useful tool in this matchup, especially at low %. Bowser will get caught in it, and if he doesn't know to DI into the hit, then he will take major damage, and the final one can be followed up with uair. I don't believe he can up-B out of it because I don't think any other characters can.
In the air, ROB's fair and uair will eat Bowser alive. Uair does ridiculous amounts of damage and is easy to land on big characters. ROB's blindspot below him isn't nearly as vulnerable as it is in most matchups.
I don't think Bowser's flame is a great approach. He's just asking for a retreating laser. It's pretty good for pinning ROB near the edge but ROB can just fly over it.
Obviously this is not a good match for ROB to spam spotdodge in, but that doesn't really hurt ROB's ground game at all, just certain styles of players who have bad habits.
ROB's CPs: Frigate, Luigi's if it's legal, anything big and flat.
Bowser's hard to gimp and even harder to kill, but ROB is hard for Bowser to touch at all. In the end for ROB, fighting Bowser is like fighting DDD without multiple jumps, a broke-a$$ grab, and a broke-a$$ bair. AKA cake.
60:40 ROB.
If anything I said is wrong feel free to correct me. I admit I don't know a whole lot about Bowser.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
If someone can up+B out of it, it would be Marth.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
I've never seen a Marth up-B out of it, and I play NEO fairly regularly and he uses up-B A LOT.
CJTHeroofTime
Smash Lord
Wow, Sudai... you practically wrote a book on this matchup lol.
On Bowser not being able to gimp ROB, thats not totally true. A dash off the stage>bair can easily stagespike the unexpecting ROB, especially if his fuel was depleted by some firebreath edgeguarding.
Pretty much all of Bowser's moves kill ROB at high percentages, I personally find myself being killed the most by ftilt. He literally swats ROB away like a fly... Dsmash also kills me... startup frames.......
As for the platform game, I like to use dthrow underneath platforms, as it allows ROB to pressure with uairs at higher percentages than usually allowed by the dthrow. The center platform on battlefield is great for this. Bowser pretty much has four options: Spot-dodge, in which case you would wait till he lands on the platform; he can perform an aerial, which you can also wait for him to land; landing, which is punishable itself, and DIing to the side, which means you can fair him a few times. And if bowser ever spotdodges a fair, you can just fastfall into another one and still get him.
I've found Japes to be a great CP for Bowser, as it can easily become a game of pushing Bowser back and forth across the map. ROB can just camp out with his laser and gyro and force bowser to approach. As soon as he jumps, SH fair can punish, and with the weird platform setup, a combination of ftilts, dash attacks, SH'd fairs, and jabs can sweep him across to the other side. Or ROB can just wait and shield grab and backthrow at decent percentages for an easy kill.
On Bowser not being able to gimp ROB, thats not totally true. A dash off the stage>bair can easily stagespike the unexpecting ROB, especially if his fuel was depleted by some firebreath edgeguarding.
Pretty much all of Bowser's moves kill ROB at high percentages, I personally find myself being killed the most by ftilt. He literally swats ROB away like a fly... Dsmash also kills me... startup frames.......
As for the platform game, I like to use dthrow underneath platforms, as it allows ROB to pressure with uairs at higher percentages than usually allowed by the dthrow. The center platform on battlefield is great for this. Bowser pretty much has four options: Spot-dodge, in which case you would wait till he lands on the platform; he can perform an aerial, which you can also wait for him to land; landing, which is punishable itself, and DIing to the side, which means you can fair him a few times. And if bowser ever spotdodges a fair, you can just fastfall into another one and still get him.
I've found Japes to be a great CP for Bowser, as it can easily become a game of pushing Bowser back and forth across the map. ROB can just camp out with his laser and gyro and force bowser to approach. As soon as he jumps, SH fair can punish, and with the weird platform setup, a combination of ftilts, dash attacks, SH'd fairs, and jabs can sweep him across to the other side. Or ROB can just wait and shield grab and backthrow at decent percentages for an easy kill.
Jamnt0ast
Smash Journeyman
This is wrong, but i can see how you might think that. It takes good spacing to hit bowser during his down tilt. I usually just fair when he is approaching with dtilts. It's usually a safe option.
Glide toss gyro into bowser -> FSMASH
REALLY basic combo, but it breaks bowser out of every ground move except for neutral b and the fsmash will kill him around 120-130 if it's fresh.
Sudai
Stuff here
The problem with glide toss > FSmash is that people tend to shield the gyro and keep their shield up meaning Glide toss > FSmash is going to be rather uncommon.
As for FTilt not out ranging DTilt, I said we probably couldn't.
As for FTilt not out ranging DTilt, I said we probably couldn't.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
None of the Bowser players have anything to add/argue?
Sudai
Stuff here
That's what I've been thinking the whole time but I didn't wanna say anything. :x
Nitros14
Smash Journeyman
Generally the only activity on the Bowser boards is other character mains talking about him.
MrEh
Smash Hero
The glidetoss--> Fsmash won't work consistently, especially since most Bowser players will try to shield every projectile ROB sends at them. Might work for a surprise KO, but it's not reliable.
Watch out for edgeguarding though. Bowser does that pretty darn well. The Fire edgeguard has already been mentioned, and an intelligent Bowser will stop shooting Fire as soon as he sees you DIing out of it. After that, he can shoot off an aerial or a tilt to try to knock you around some more.
ROB's blindspot can actually be an opportunity for Bowser, especially with his Uair and Utilt being as awesome as they are. Watch out for the Utilt though, I cannot stress that enough. It comes out fast, has a totally whack hitbox, and has lots of priority. It'll kill you at like 120% with good DI, so be wary, especially with platforms.
Watch out for edgeguarding though. Bowser does that pretty darn well. The Fire edgeguard has already been mentioned, and an intelligent Bowser will stop shooting Fire as soon as he sees you DIing out of it. After that, he can shoot off an aerial or a tilt to try to knock you around some more.
ROB's blindspot can actually be an opportunity for Bowser, especially with his Uair and Utilt being as awesome as they are. Watch out for the Utilt though, I cannot stress that enough. It comes out fast, has a totally whack hitbox, and has lots of priority. It'll kill you at like 120% with good DI, so be wary, especially with platforms.
DeactoVater
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 34
Bowser Suprisingly has a Fairly Easy time against ROB as Oppose to other characters.
Some Advantages Bowser has:
1)ROB is not a Very Nimble Character so during battle it is Rather easy to smuther him in flames(B).
2)Up Tilt is good for hitting Rob ABove and Behind you.
3)Bowser's Down Smash is a Great Spot Dodge/Roll Punish.
4)Bowser's Tilts have Deadly strength and Equal if not more range then ROB's tilts.
5)Bowser's up B is hard to gimp do to its speed and quick height gain.
6)Bowser ***** ROB on norfair.
Of course ROB has a good Share of advantages also, but those are easy to point out. If i had to make the numbers it would be.... Rob-> 60/40 <-Bowser
Some Advantages Bowser has:
1)ROB is not a Very Nimble Character so during battle it is Rather easy to smuther him in flames(B).
2)Up Tilt is good for hitting Rob ABove and Behind you.
3)Bowser's Down Smash is a Great Spot Dodge/Roll Punish.
4)Bowser's Tilts have Deadly strength and Equal if not more range then ROB's tilts.
5)Bowser's up B is hard to gimp do to its speed and quick height gain.
6)Bowser ***** ROB on norfair.
Of course ROB has a good Share of advantages also, but those are easy to point out. If i had to make the numbers it would be.... Rob-> 60/40 <-Bowser
MrEh
Smash Hero
It's also hard to gimp due to the priority and invincibility frames.
Bowser ***** on Norfair period. The projectile spam is hardly a problem on that stage, and Bowser is impossible to gimp with all the ledges around.
Oh, and speaking of grab releases, most Bowser users won't use the Dtilt for damage, they'll use it work killing. The Klaw works out of a grab release, and it's more reliable for damage. And of course, as mentioned, Fire will destroy you if you try to spot dodge out of it, but that's really just a general strategy for people who try to spot dodge to escape grab releases. (which is like everyone.)
Watch out for suicide Klaws out of a grab release, since you most likely won't expect it, and you may DI too late to stop the suicide. During a chaingrab, you'll probably be focused more on getting out of the grab versus a potential suicide, so make sure you're aware of that possibility. Even if the suicide Klaw doesn't work, chaingrabing into Klaws is an excellent way to build up damage. (30% or more damage from one grab is something to watch out for.) If you jump release out of his grab, Bowser will just Fair you, which isn't all that cool for ROB either.
Oh, and the Bowser Bomb out of a grab release might work as well. It worked when I tested it months ago, but truth to be told I didn't really put much effort into the testing. It says it works in Vex's thread, and I trust that. If it does work, then you need to watch out for it. Obviously, Bowser's butt does a lot of damage and kills at pretty low percents. It's possible to DI out of it, but it's much harder to do that when you don't see it coming. Out of a grab release, Bowser can do lots of things, which makes it even harder to predict what's coming. Obviously, watch out for this one.
Sudai
Stuff here
I'm going to always be trying to air release personally, as stated already. I'd much rather eat a FAir than a regrab or flame breath or Koopa Klaw. : (
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