MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Not to fight against, to play as.
D3 vs Bowser is silly.
D3 vs Bowser is silly.
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Wreck-It Bowser
- Thread starter Liquid Gen
- Start date
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
The song is a lie.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Hey Bowser's, been awhile. I got a new hat:
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Haha, this dude on my tour bus had that hat.
Can anyone explain to me how the MU is vs Sheik? I was getting some matches recorded after just recently coming back to smash (and my scene) and I was getting gimped pretty hard. I did manage to get off a sick kill that you guys will probably laugh at. XD
Jonas
Smash Champion
Uh Idk. I guess you can gimp her too with firebreath -> edgehog. Stay out of her f-tilt range.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
It's all about keeping her away with Jab.
MrEh
Smash Hero
^this
You essentially learn how to space Jab like a madman. Soon you'll see that Jab clanks or beats her entire moveset.
You essentially learn how to space Jab like a madman. Soon you'll see that Jab clanks or beats her entire moveset.
dat 2008 matchup advice 
I'd recommend checking what the Snake and ROB boards have to say about the matchup and try to copy it, those characters probably have enough of a developed metagame
Counterpick Castle Siege if you can so you can chaingrab her to death
I'd recommend checking what the Snake and ROB boards have to say about the matchup and try to copy it, those characters probably have enough of a developed metagame
Counterpick Castle Siege if you can so you can chaingrab her to death
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
What, jab is REALLY helpful against Sheik.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
The only MUs I focus on jabbing more than usual are Olimar, ICs, and Sheik. I usually jab cancel a lot, but I don't nearly as often against those 3.
Jab2's great for knocking Olimar away and sending him closer to being offstage and is good for dealing with incoming Pikmin.
Jab doesn't have too much lag, unlike ftilt, which if it's shielded will get you grabbed. ICs is the best example of this.
Jab2's great for knocking Olimar away and sending him closer to being offstage and is good for dealing with incoming Pikmin.
Jab doesn't have too much lag, unlike ftilt, which if it's shielded will get you grabbed. ICs is the best example of this.
And whose fault is that?
I'm not even saying Jab shouldn't be used in the matchup, I'm saying that if somebody asks us for matchup advice and all you can give them is "space jab" something is terribly wrong.
The one time I played this matchup in Spain I got ****ing blitzed because I had no idea what to do besides "space jab"
I'm not even saying Jab shouldn't be used in the matchup, I'm saying that if somebody asks us for matchup advice and all you can give them is "space jab" something is terribly wrong.
The one time I played this matchup in Spain I got ****ing blitzed because I had no idea what to do besides "space jab"
B!squick
Smash Master
Sakurai's?
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Sheik MU used to give me tons of trouble until MrEh told me to jab more.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
MrEh
Smash Hero
Jab at all costs.
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
Nah it's all about E.Honda SON.
Flayl I could very much say it's your fault too lmao. None of us are really making advancements at all.
Given Bowser's tools, we can't really break the game in any more. All we've done so far from 08-11 is discover Klaw hopping, klaw dropping, and grab releasing. I know this all and I didn't even really main Bowser until the end of 08, and didn't join this forum until 09. Literally, Bowser mains that jumped into Brawl from Melee just used the tools he had in the game. Once we figured out how radicalaerial Klaw Klaw itself was in this game, we then figured out Klaw zoning and realized that move was Bowser's best move. Period.
What then?
Well, this past year, including the end of 2010, all we've did is just delved delved deeper into grab release info. Now, I'm not putting the blame on anyone because the majority of us either have quit the game, the character, or just don't care. We're just here, chillin' because we all are awesome and enjoy each other's company. And I have no problem with that at all. I've met some awesome people and awesome things out of this. But please. Let me know if there's a 4th excuse.
Once you understand Bowser IN AND OUT, the only thing you can honestly improve are your own skills as a player. I'm completely serious. There can be two Bowsers that know all of Bowser's tools and how/where/when to use them, but the better player would be more precise at the execution and using the optimal options [lol A2ZOMG].
He (Bowser) reaches his limits earlier than the player does, and COMBINED with the fact that Bowser is a pretty ****ty character outside of a good OoS option, grab releases and the amazing command grab, this whole situation just turns to rotten ***, for lack of a better word (I just woke up.) You're going to get better, but Bowser is still bad. If we find a new secret, great, and we'll probably be able to implement it, I definitely guarantee that. But, I don't think it'd break Bowser or break the game. This is kinda the reason why I've contemplated switching off of Bowser because I feel as though I can only improve myself, because I know the majority of the **** Bowser has to offer. In order to be perfectly concise with EVERYTHING, I'd have to better myself as a player. Do you see what I'm saying? That's just the way I see this whole predicament. I might be seeing it wrong and I could be wrong but there's just no advancements that can be made on Bowser's end anymore.
I promise you, if someone had all of Bowser's tools but was just better overall, I'd probably switch to them in a heartbeat. Like I remember when Vex used Bowser and when we talked, he told me people always told him that he was a great player, extremely smart, but saddened at the fact that he wasted this talent on Bowser. (Didn't all go to waste, he made a good model of a Bowser player for this). I don't know his response to those people, but I got those same questions, and my response was "I love Bowser!," and believe me, I do. Bowser is a God when it comes to characters, I'm serious. But it's deeper than that. Aside from the name Bowser, I think I enjoy the tools he has as well. Like I said before, a good OoS option, great power, a command grab that is larger in the air-it can be telegraphed but can barely be stopped, and Grab release options? That's ****ing awesome. But after you look at that, everything else is just... you know. And I thought I could be stubborn and would still try my hardest despite all of his weaknesses. And it's depressing that it doesn't work, but that's what happens. Bowser is just bad.
Like, as another example, I was watching the E4J livestream or wherever Zigsta was, playing pools and he lost all of those random matches. Like getting his *** beat by Razmakazi, KiraFlax and getting 3 stocked by Nexus (barring an SD and a ****ty CP), sorry for putting you on blast, you know I don't mean it like that of course. But **** like that. That disgusted me. But then I realized that there are a bunch of variables, like Zigsta could just not know the MU (which I hope is the case), he could just not understand Bowser completely yet, he could just possibly be a worse player than Nexus and those 3, Bowser could just be worse characters than Peach, Pit and R.O.B (that's it too) he could just not have experience with Frigate Orpheon in Nexus' case, or...maybe Bowser just isn't cut out for him. That's the way I saw it and it was sad to watch it happen but you know...**** it now I'm just ranting. w/e
Also Flayl, you seem extremely cranky lately, is everything fine?
But seriously Zigsta I mean no harm by bringing that up, it was just the most recent example of this issue I have.
Flayl I could very much say it's your fault too lmao. None of us are really making advancements at all.
Given Bowser's tools, we can't really break the game in any more. All we've done so far from 08-11 is discover Klaw hopping, klaw dropping, and grab releasing. I know this all and I didn't even really main Bowser until the end of 08, and didn't join this forum until 09. Literally, Bowser mains that jumped into Brawl from Melee just used the tools he had in the game. Once we figured out how radical
What then?
Well, this past year, including the end of 2010, all we've did is just delved delved deeper into grab release info. Now, I'm not putting the blame on anyone because the majority of us either have quit the game, the character, or just don't care. We're just here, chillin' because we all are awesome and enjoy each other's company. And I have no problem with that at all. I've met some awesome people and awesome things out of this. But please. Let me know if there's a 4th excuse.
Once you understand Bowser IN AND OUT, the only thing you can honestly improve are your own skills as a player. I'm completely serious. There can be two Bowsers that know all of Bowser's tools and how/where/when to use them, but the better player would be more precise at the execution and using the optimal options [lol A2ZOMG].
He (Bowser) reaches his limits earlier than the player does, and COMBINED with the fact that Bowser is a pretty ****ty character outside of a good OoS option, grab releases and the amazing command grab, this whole situation just turns to rotten ***, for lack of a better word (I just woke up.) You're going to get better, but Bowser is still bad. If we find a new secret, great, and we'll probably be able to implement it, I definitely guarantee that. But, I don't think it'd break Bowser or break the game. This is kinda the reason why I've contemplated switching off of Bowser because I feel as though I can only improve myself, because I know the majority of the **** Bowser has to offer. In order to be perfectly concise with EVERYTHING, I'd have to better myself as a player. Do you see what I'm saying? That's just the way I see this whole predicament. I might be seeing it wrong and I could be wrong but there's just no advancements that can be made on Bowser's end anymore.
I promise you, if someone had all of Bowser's tools but was just better overall, I'd probably switch to them in a heartbeat. Like I remember when Vex used Bowser and when we talked, he told me people always told him that he was a great player, extremely smart, but saddened at the fact that he wasted this talent on Bowser. (Didn't all go to waste, he made a good model of a Bowser player for this). I don't know his response to those people, but I got those same questions, and my response was "I love Bowser!," and believe me, I do. Bowser is a God when it comes to characters, I'm serious. But it's deeper than that. Aside from the name Bowser, I think I enjoy the tools he has as well. Like I said before, a good OoS option, great power, a command grab that is larger in the air-it can be telegraphed but can barely be stopped, and Grab release options? That's ****ing awesome. But after you look at that, everything else is just... you know. And I thought I could be stubborn and would still try my hardest despite all of his weaknesses. And it's depressing that it doesn't work, but that's what happens. Bowser is just bad.
Like, as another example, I was watching the E4J livestream or wherever Zigsta was, playing pools and he lost all of those random matches. Like getting his *** beat by Razmakazi, KiraFlax and getting 3 stocked by Nexus (barring an SD and a ****ty CP), sorry for putting you on blast, you know I don't mean it like that of course. But **** like that. That disgusted me. But then I realized that there are a bunch of variables, like Zigsta could just not know the MU (which I hope is the case), he could just not understand Bowser completely yet, he could just possibly be a worse player than Nexus and those 3, Bowser could just be worse characters than Peach, Pit and R.O.B (that's it too) he could just not have experience with Frigate Orpheon in Nexus' case, or...maybe Bowser just isn't cut out for him. That's the way I saw it and it was sad to watch it happen but you know...**** it now I'm just ranting. w/e
Also Flayl, you seem extremely cranky lately, is everything fine?
But seriously Zigsta I mean no harm by bringing that up, it was just the most recent example of this issue I have.
Uncle
Novus Ordo Seclorum
I know what you mean, Limit. I can't even win a game in tourney with Bowser these days, unless my opponent is obviously not at my level. I've just been making more progress with G&W and DK, lately.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Limit, I lost all those because I was super burned out. I hadn't played Brawl in 2 months and had to play 6 pools matches in a row, all against campy projectile characters. I had literally no will to play patient for those matches and was already calculating how fast I could finish so I could sneak out and go see X-Men.
Only MU I don't know how to play is Pit, and we played on FD. I've played Esca like 5 times or so, and (along with the fact Pit is a GARBAGE MU for Bowser) FD's literally his best neutral against us. Couple that with the fact that since I don't have much Pit experience, I don't have the necessary timing to powershield arrows, and you get me getting ***** in friendlies on FD.
Not trying to john; just stating the facts. If people feel I'm not a Bowser player, that's fine, too. I know I am, and that's all that matters.
Anyway, I do apologize to you Limit for having to watch those matches.
Only MU I don't know how to play is Pit, and we played on FD. I've played Esca like 5 times or so, and (along with the fact Pit is a GARBAGE MU for Bowser) FD's literally his best neutral against us. Couple that with the fact that since I don't have much Pit experience, I don't have the necessary timing to powershield arrows, and you get me getting ***** in friendlies on FD.
Not trying to john; just stating the facts. If people feel I'm not a Bowser player, that's fine, too. I know I am, and that's all that matters.
Anyway, I do apologize to you Limit for having to watch those matches.
I always seem to win 1 match with bowser every time i play him in tournament. and i come close to winning the set but i lose the magic and SD at least once when it counts. i play offstage alot w/ bowser and often i Up B myself into the corner of smashville or FD or somemthing and don't make it back.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Bowser is bad and can't really get much better at this point, while other characters can still improve a decent amount. Bowser lacks multiple solid options, only has like, 1 or 2 solid options for a few situations, and lackluster in other situations.
Limit, why are you putting Zigsta on blast if he has no way of learning the matchups? He can't learn anything because the people that actually have access to decent level matchups don't post anything useful besides "space jab". That's hypocrisy.
Also please, don't lecture me on how Bowser is a low tier, I was on that boat far before Vex decided to give up. The Brawl community here in Portugal is dead, so all I can do is provide situational advice and test stuff in frame advance.
I find most of you guys' approach to competition really naive and lazy. That's why I'm "cranky".
edit: It's seriously not that hard to find more useful stuff to say about a matchup besides the preferred poke. You can check the Yoshi boards for example, while not the greatest minds of our generation they still have useful advice to tell one another.
Also please, don't lecture me on how Bowser is a low tier, I was on that boat far before Vex decided to give up. The Brawl community here in Portugal is dead, so all I can do is provide situational advice and test stuff in frame advance.
I find most of you guys' approach to competition really naive and lazy. That's why I'm "cranky".
edit: It's seriously not that hard to find more useful stuff to say about a matchup besides the preferred poke. You can check the Yoshi boards for example, while not the greatest minds of our generation they still have useful advice to tell one another.
teluoborg
Smash Otter
Then how about
Space jab very well
?
Space jab very well
?
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
...
jokes aside, Zigsta said himself that the only MU he didn't know is Pit...I just wanted to make sure that Zigsta wouldn't be offended by me using him as an example of my gripes with Bowser.
And why in God's name would I bother checking the Yoshi boards? lmao
_Dice that's something you really need to fix then, right? If you keep losing matches with Bowser because you **** around too much offstage, then don't **** around offstage. lol
jokes aside, Zigsta said himself that the only MU he didn't know is Pit...I just wanted to make sure that Zigsta wouldn't be offended by me using him as an example of my gripes with Bowser.
And why in God's name would I bother checking the Yoshi boards? lmao
_Dice that's something you really need to fix then, right? If you keep losing matches with Bowser because you **** around too much offstage, then don't **** around offstage. lol
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Dice, I would just practice recovering from various positions offstage and seeing if you can recover there. Sometimes all you need is repetition, I find.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Hey Zigsta...
What are the chances of you ever making it out to Ohio for a tournament?
What are the chances of you ever making it out to Ohio for a tournament?
B!squick
Smash Master
Cassius.
you're deadMEAT.
oh I didn't see that last part. Dice you have to kinda find a way to understand the trajectory of the UpB before you can start screwing around offstage, because then you'll know what you can/can't do, and where you can/can't go.
I feel as though once you address your limits you can work around them.
so just figure out Bowser's trajectory(ies?) by practice, like Zigsta said, or just watching videos I guess.
I feel as though once you address your limits you can work around them.
so just figure out Bowser's trajectory(ies?) by practice, like Zigsta said, or just watching videos I guess.
-Kagato-
The Final Boss
That was a really good read, Limit (Big post on previous page. Not quoting it). Nice to see something like that my first day back to this forum in... years?
My rabid fanboyism of Bowser as a Nintendo character keeps making me want him to be not a bad character. But hey. There's always Smash WiiU in a few years, but we're 2/2 for low tier Bowser already so I'm not going to place any faith in it.
My rabid fanboyism of Bowser as a Nintendo character keeps making me want him to be not a bad character. But hey. There's always Smash WiiU in a few years, but we're 2/2 for low tier Bowser already so I'm not going to place any faith in it.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I'm garbage at geography--how far is Ohio from Texas? XD
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
the worst part is i'll be fighting like metaknight offstage for a good 40 seconds with ledgegrabs and everything working great and stuff, and he'll finally head back on stage and then i'll jump down to forward air him away from the ledge so i can get up, and then i up b into the corner and die.
-.- i'm great when i'm doing something offstage or situations where it should be bad for me, but when it comes to doing anything mundane i fail pretty badly.
Small clip of me getting boned! Oh and some other stuff happens too
Limit, do you have any idea why I got special shoutouts? I don't remember even talking that much with lordy.
I wish the Bowser board video had this quality
Limit, do you have any idea why I got special shoutouts? I don't remember even talking that much with lordy.
I wish the Bowser board video had this quality
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
21 HOURS away?!
Sorry, Auspher. XD
Sorry, Auspher. XD
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Why dosent anyone talk on bowser boards?
I'm going to now.
Your welcome bowser guys.
I'm going to now.
Your welcome bowser guys.
Dumbfire
Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
I'll talk.
Kung Fu Panda 2 finally runs in theatres here, time to check it out soon.
Kung Fu Panda 2 finally runs in theatres here, time to check it out soon.