Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[GhostAnime]

the thing is, FS's are nothing but stars in a case that could be attacked.

 

[5150]

FS will not be in tournament play. it's a randomly occuring item that doesnt take many hits to break and gives a player a HUGE advantage. if it's in tournaments then kishes have won.

 

[Tehdave]

Why would anybody even suggest they should be banned because some Final Smashes are better than others. Did anybody notice what's in the Melee Discussion right now? It's called a tier list. Just because Fox and Falco have better moves then everyone else doesn't mean they should be banned. Or just because the shine is broken doesn't mean that should be banned. Smash ball's should be in this game because you have to break them open and cannot do gain one by the ball just spawning above you and you hit it once. Even Bowser has to use at least 2 moves on it. Maybe Ike can do it in one hit, but he needs it anyways because not one singles Brawl tournament in the history of the world will be won by an Ike.

Quote for...
No, quote for stupidity.
Straight up.

Scrub.

 

[Psydon]

Psydon, I agree with some of your points, but remember that collecting the small ball takes a little more effort than a regular item... you'll probably have to jump in the air and attack it which leaves you open to your opponents attacks.

I could see quite a bit of strategy developing... do you grab the smash ball or wait for your opponent to go for it... do you attack them first then go after it while they're recovering? What if you go for it but as your collecting it, you get hit forcing it off of you.

Maybe the heavier characters are slower... but maybe it's easier for them to knock the item out of you and to retain it themselves. Who knows... either way, I wouldn't count them out of tournament play quite so soon.

Don't get me wrong, I wanna see what would happen if FSes were introduced to tournament play; if competitive players took them seriously and implemented them into their strategies. We could see some pretty wicked stuff. And you are right about strategies being formed around position and acquisition of the Smash Ball. But I just feel, regardless of the reasons I think of to justify myself, regardless of the fact that I want FSes in tourneys, that that won't be the case.

@5150 - Kishes? O_o

Why would anybody even suggest they should be banned because some Final Smashes are better than others. Did anybody notice what's in the Melee Discussion right now? It's called a tier list. Just because Fox and Falco have better moves then everyone else doesn't mean they should be banned. Or just because the shine is broken doesn't mean that should be banned. Smash ball's should be in this game because you have to break them open and cannot do gain one by the ball just spawning above you and you hit it once. Even Bowser has to use at least 2 moves on it. Maybe Ike can do it in one hit, but he needs it anyways because not one singles Brawl tournament in the history of the world will be won by an Ike.

1. Quit making claims about Ike before the final game is released.

2. Smash Balls are not characters. Extreme cases aside, which we've never really encountered yet, you can't ban characters--that wouldn't be fair to those who main them--, but you can ban items.

 

[error_alt_delete]

Quote for...
No, quote for stupidity.
Straight up.

Scrub.

yes and calling him a scrub without backing up your reasoning makes you smarter than him....[/SARCASM]

look, I am not backing him up because I want items in touraments. I am not a tourney goer. HOWEVER with the new online play and freind codes I will try to enter tourneys online. but does this mean I care about the tourney rules? no. I could care less if the smash ball spawns in his favor(if it was used in tourneys). I will keep playing. I enjoy playing cometitively as long as I have fun. so i guess I am a competitive player who would rather play for fun. I play often so I am not a casual player.


it seems casual players and tourney players terminology has chandged for the worst.

here is what it should be so we dont fall into a catagory that doesnt describe us:

competitive player- a person who plays to win.

casual player- a person who plays the game only every now and then, they play for fun.

*now lets add the rest of the terms that should be added so we no longer fall into the wrong groups.

hardcore player- a player who plays the game very very often for their enjoyment.

tourney player- a person who plays and plays so they can win tourneys, not because they are trying to enjoy it.

non tourney player- a person who does not play tourneys. this person trys to avoid them.

any game players- a person who will play tourneys if they feel like it, they dont play them as much as tourney players but more than non tourney players.

item player- a person who plays with items only, they try to avoid tourneys without items.

no item players- players who like the "tourney" rules.

item nuetral- a person who doesnt care if there are items or not.

so if I was to say what group I was, i would be a:
hardcore item nuetral any game player. not a casual player.

good day to you sir.

PS: I think the smash ball could be used in tourneys, but to make it better for everyones enjoyment why dont we try something new.

because we have online play and freind codes, just do the tourneys online. that way we dont have to pay the money for the travels.

now with this in mind, we can make tourneys WITH items(or just the smash ball or any real setting setup) so everyone can enjoy. this way, nobody can loss money paid for the travels.

but if it is a tourney with winnings then yes, I dont see the smash ball easily becomeing used.
especialy if there is a entry fee.
but if it is, I wont lose sleep over it.
eventualy we will figure out methods to dodge all of them, but until then I dont see it being used in the competitive moneuy tourney scene.

 

[platnum]

Yes Yes Yes Yes.

 

[Tehdave]

Thanks for the long response,
but my rude comments were calling out two things he said -

"but he needs it anyways because not one singles Brawl tournament in the history of the world will be won by an Ike."

That's just stupidity. It's as ignorant as when people who don't play the game bark out things like "He's using jigglypuff, HAHA"
Nobody has any knowledge of how Ike will fair against other characters until the game is released and time as passed for people to really play him.
Who knows, he could be bottom, but he has just as much chance to be top.
Can't stand people who are already calling out character's tier positions.

The other comment I was calling him out on was the dumb remark of comparing Fox and Falco to an item.
What the heck?

 

[Xanderous]

Quote for...
No, quote for stupidity.
Straight up.

Scrub.

Hey, relax. He had some good points.

 

[RedKnight]

eventualy we will figure out methods to dodge all of them, but until then I dont see it being used in the competitive moneuy tourney scene.

This is a good point, while Final Smashes can be devastating they aren't perfect. They have some flaws, and it shouldnt take long for people to figure out ways around them. And even if they dont, its pretty much just a big attack, chances are someone will only get one KO off of it in a one on one match

 

[Tehdave]

This is a good point, while Final Smashes can be devastating they aren't perfect. They have some flaws, and it shouldnt take long for people to figure out ways around them. And even if they dont, its pretty much just a big attack, chances are someone will only get one KO off of it in a one on one match

I've seen one KO make a big difference on several occasions.

 

[error_alt_delete]

Thanks for the long response,
but my rude comments were calling out two things he said -

"but he needs it anyways because not one singles Brawl tournament in the history of the world will be won by an Ike."

That's just stupidity. It's as ignorant as when people who don't play the game bark out things like "He's using jigglypuff, HAHA"
Nobody has any knowledge of how Ike will fair against other characters until the game is released and time as passed for people to really play him.
Who knows, he could be bottom, but he has just as much chance to be top.
Can't stand people who are already calling out character's tier positions.

The other comment I was calling him out on was the dumb remark of comparing Fox and Falco to an item.
What the heck?

yes well, I wouldnt have acted out if you had at least told us why you said it in the first post, other wise you look just rude. I cant stand stuff like that after being here for so long...
well...not THAT long but you know what I mean.

any comments on my diferent people divisions instead of just competitive or casual?

oh back on topic, once the final smash weaknesses are discovered they may be incorperated, but until then I dont see it happening unless it isnt an item hat you can switch off. I think it is but if I recall it isnt under items, can someone check and see? just because it can come out of a party ball, crate, capsule, whatever, doest necisarily make it a item, but it probably is one, and probably able to be turned on and off.

 

[Tehdave]

yes well, I wouldnt have acted out if you had at least told us why you said it in the first post, other wise you look just rude. I cant stand stuff like that after being here for so long...
well...not THAT long but you know what I mean.

any comments on my diferent people divisions instead of just competitive or casual?

oh back on topic, once the final smash weaknesses are discovered they may be incorperated, but until then I dont see it happening unless it isnt an item hat you can switch off. I think it is but if I recall it isnt under items, can someone check and see? just because it can come out of a party ball, crate, capsule, whatever, doest necisarily make it a item, but it probably is one, and probably able to be turned on and off.

Well, I can't argue with your different divisions of people, because in fact, it's just truth.
There are all kinds of people who will be playing this game.
I think the overall point of this topic was whether or not smash balls will be on or off in tournament play alone. I think it won't.
Items are a huge part of this game, especially to casual players, and it does make it fun, but in the tournament scene, I can never see smash balls being part of it.

There are things that can't be turned off, like the Hyrule zombies in melee, but they can ONLY come out of items. So turning them off negates them completely.
Smash balls probably have their own option whether they can be off or not.
Nintendo knows that people like complete customization.
They'd never just have it so that it would be turned off.

There are times where Final Smashes are just ridiculous.
Fox's turns him into a giant Land Vehicle.
In videos, I've seen people attempt to jump on it, around it, or attack it, but
end up getting wrecked either way.
Sonic's makes him virtually unstoppable, because he has complete control in the air.
Peach's allows her to heal herself completely and put everybody to sleep.

See this scenario : 2 v2 Tournament, Peach uses her final smash, puts everybody to sleep, and her 2v2 partner is a Jigglypuff. GG to the other players.

I just see it as sheer fun and amusement, as the pokeballs are.
They are flashy, and fun to watch, and make everything out of control.
It's just another fun factor for people who want it.

Tournament play is something else, to me.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

I definitely don't see Smash Balls in the pro scene, they are after all an item and so far Melee rules have always been strictly no items. Yayyy I just became a Journeymanblahhhh

 

[WFL]

Thanks for the long response,
but my rude comments were calling out two things he said -

"but he needs it anyways because not one singles Brawl tournament in the history of the world will be won by an Ike."

That's just stupidity. It's as ignorant as when people who don't play the game bark out things like "He's using jigglypuff, HAHA"
Nobody has any knowledge of how Ike will fair against other characters until the game is released and time as passed for people to really play him.
Who knows, he could be bottom, but he has just as much chance to be top.
Can't stand people who are already calling out character's tier positions.

The other comment I was calling him out on was the dumb remark of comparing Fox and Falco to an item.
What the heck?

First of all, as seen from e for all Ike is just way to slow to do anything. He's much slower and laggier than Bowser, who is low on the tier list because not many people can deal with playing with his lag. I'm not in anyway yelling out a tier list because tier list are based on tournament outcomes, but I am saying that an Ike will never win a competitive tournament. I'm sure some people will agree with me on that.

Also if you could read you would've saw that I wasn't comparing Fox and Falco to an item. I was comparing Final Smashes, which are moves, to the shine. It's part of the character and I hope they will be added to tournaments. It's not going to be as bad as items because if you watched E for All videos the ball, even if it does appear right above someone, starts moving right away and if they hit it first it gives his opponent a chance to get it because it won't break open on the first hit.

 

[Psydon]

This is a good point, while Final Smashes can be devastating they aren't perfect. They have some flaws, and it shouldnt take long for people to figure out ways around them. And even if they dont, its pretty much just a big attack, chances are someone will only get one KO off of it in a one on one match

And what if that one KO happens to be the victim's last stock?

Also if you could read you would've saw that I wasn't comparing Fox and Falco to an item. I was comparing Final Smashes, which are moves, to the shine. It's part of the character and I hope they will be added to tournaments. It's not going to be as bad as items because if you watched E for All videos the ball, even if it does appear right above someone, starts moving right away and if they hit it first it gives his opponent a chance to get it because it won't break open on the first hit.

1. You compared Fox and Falco to Final Smashes and I called you on it. Get over it. You've made better points than that.

2. Keep in mind that all of those videos are of people who, technically, suck at the game (nobody can have any true skill after such limited playtime). Once they get better, faster characters will definately have the advantage of being able to get to the ball faster.

3. The "it's part of the character" argument is a moot point.

Yes, the FSes are each unique to the character and each is an aspect of that character amplified to an intense amount.

But, they still require an item, which is not part of the character, to activate.

4. Some FSes you can safely trigger the moment you get the ball, and once you get one it's not that easy for your opponent to take it, since you still have access to your A attacks, shielding, dodging and grabs (which is more than enough to setup combos and keep yourself alive), and there are quite a lot of FSes that render you safe when you use them.

 

[Tehdave]

First of all, as seen from e for all Ike is just way to slow to do anything. He's much slower and laggier than Bowser, who is low on the tier list because not many people can deal with playing with his lag. I'm not in anyway yelling out a tier list because tier list are based on tournament outcomes, but I am saying that an Ike will never win a competitive tournament. I'm sure some people will agree with me on that.

Also if you could read you would've saw that I wasn't comparing Fox and Falco to an item. I was comparing Final Smashes, which are moves, to the shine. It's part of the character and I hope they will be added to tournaments. It's not going to be as bad as items because if you watched E for All videos the ball, even if it does appear right above someone, starts moving right away and if they hit it first it gives his opponent a chance to get it because it won't break open on the first hit.

NOBODY with intelligence would agree with you on that.
You CAN'T DETERMINE Ike's standing in the tournament world, because
you don't KNOW.
Have you played the insides and outs of the game? I'd say that about ANY character.
Look at Kirby in the pro scene for the first game, look at him in melee.
It's completely different,
you have no information over others that can distinguish him as any worse or better of a character than any characters we've seen thus far.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Yea, i dont get how anyone knows for sure Ike will be bad forever.

 

[Cless]

Well, they should try them out first before they just outright ban them. Time is only going to tell, just like with items in Melee.

 

[MookieRah]

He's much slower and laggier than Bowser, who is low on the tier list because not many people can deal with playing with his lag. I'm not in anyway yelling out a tier list because tier list are based on tournament outcomes, but I am saying that an Ike will never win a competitive tournament. I'm sure some people will agree with me on that.

I agree with that actually, with a slight exception, and that is this:
If there is no effective way to speed Ike up, then he will never win a competitive tournament.
That said, considering how slow he is starting out, one would be hard pressed to find effective ways to speed him up, and it's very unlikely that anyone would discover something so early on to make him tournament worthy.

You CAN'T DETERMINE Ike's standing in the tournament world, because
you don't KNOW.

We know that if you are slow you lose. The faster you are the more options you have. The faster you are, the better able you can trick an opponent. It doesn't matter if Ike is ridiculously strong, if there is a major Brawl tournament within the first year or so there won't be an Ike player to make it beyond mediocre placements simply because the smart players would easily work around the slowness and take advantage of it.

 

[Kazydai]

Shinkou Hadouken!!!!!!

Sounds about right. I think a lot of people are missing the strategic element because people are trying to make tournament brawl just like tournament melee even though we don't even a complete idea of how everything works yet. Smash ball definitely has tournament potential because of what Kashakunaki has stated and we shouldn't just throw it out right away just because it was a few things in common with items. Smash ball has a lot of differences too... differences that would make it possible to use in tournaments.

I totally agree with Giza and Kashakunaki.

To me, the final smashes are just like the 'supers' in Street Fighter and other fighting games, except that you need an 'item' to use. The final smash is a special move tailored to each character and to deny them of those techniques is just stupid. Imagine if they had a street fighter tournament, but no 'supers' were allowed? That's BS!!! Now, I know I'm gonna get flamed for a Street Fighter comparision, and yes, Smash is a totally different fighting game, but think about it. I think that if you were a good smash player, you could find a way to avoid it.

But say that they made the game where you didn't need the smash ball to use the Final Smash. Would you end up having to ban a certain move, because it's 'cheap'? No! But, as soon as we found out it was an item, people wanted it turned off.

Like it's been said thousands of times, Brawl is a totally different game than Melee!!!! Trying to play a Melee style tournament on Brawl, to me, is rediculous. You should adapt to the new way of the new game. And if you don't like it, keep playing Melee.

I probably pissed a lot of people off, but I'll take one for my team. Let the flaming begin...

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

I still plan to use Ike even if he is ridiculously crappy. he was my favorite char on the demo besides Diddy :D

on topic : I say no to final smashes in tourneys, just seems weird. items in general just too random for me.

 

[courte]

i give an a++ to items smash we want to show how we vary from the other fighting games and to do that we need to use the items at our disposal

 

[Psydon]

I totally agree with Giza and Kashakunaki.

To me, the final smashes are just like the 'supers' in Street Fighter and other fighting games, except that you need an 'item' to use. The final smash is a special move tailored to each character and to deny them of those techniques is just stupid. Imagine if they had a street fighter tournament, but no 'supers' were allowed? That's BS!!! Now, I know I'm gonna get flamed for a Street Fighter comparision, and yes, Smash is a totally different fighting game, but think about it. I think that if you were a good smash player, you could find a way to avoid it.

But say that they made the game where you didn't need the smash ball to use the Final Smash. Would you end up having to ban a certain move, because it's 'cheap'? No! But, as soon as we found out it was an item, people wanted it turned off.

Like it's been said thousands of times, Brawl is a totally different game than Melee!!!! Trying to play a Melee style tournament on Brawl, to me, is rediculous. You should adapt to the new way of the new game. And if you don't like it, keep playing Melee.

I probably pissed a lot of people off, but I'll take one for my team. Let the flaming begin...

QFT. And I love your sig. ^^

Okay, this would conflict with what I've been posting, right? Not really. I've already said that I want FSes in tournaments, but I have also said that regardless of my wishes I still doubt that they will be implemented. And that makes me sad, but that's what I believe.

People, quit discussing Ike and stay on topic! Nothing has been said here that hasn't already been said a billion times over. Those who have faith in Ike maintain their faith, those who firmly believe that slow = suck continue to believe, and smart people like Mookie explain the simple truth: no matter what potential Ike does or doesn't have, he certainly will be one of the most difficult characters to master because nobody will be able to just pick him up and play. That is the truth, so get over it and wait for the game to come out.

 

[NES n00b]

It is not like denying the use of supers in SF3. It is denying items in Smash, because that is what it is: An item. The Final Smash Ball is an item that acts as a personalized hammer - Sakurai paraphrased somewhat. It is just a hammer with an unique animation. If SF3 had a system where a ball would appear and you would have to break it to do supers, then it would have been banned for its randomness. What makes it even worse is that FSes unlike Supers in SF3 probably aren't even close in trying to be balanced between FSes (and the game is still inbalanced), between character abilties using FS as a factor (which would be pretty dumb, why would you want to make a game's balance depended on certain characters being able to get a floating item?), and risk and rewards for using the item or trying to go after said item.

Like Wario-Man, what is the downside of using his Final Smash besides maybe desciding whether or not you will waste time with the enemy respawning invinicibilty after you took a stock. Same with Bowser, but much worse as you cannot escape it effectively unless you are airstalling towards the bottom of the stage (you can't effectively ledgehop stall anymore). Pit. . ..just use it and run towards the guy. He can't play against you and all those centurions at the same time. Then, others take a little bit more requirements to do them like MetaKnight's or Ike's, but in the end, it is not that hard to hit with them as they come out pretty fast and deal pretty big damage. If they miss the Final Smash, they can't really be punished that harshly afterwards unlike if they hit you with the Final Smash.

In the end, the people who want them are the ones who like flashy moves and the sense of "turning the tide" type things. Yeah, I am guessing that people want them mostly for the flash.

 

[Cless]

Besides, if you activate a super randomly in any other fighting game, it'll get blocked or parried and you will just have wasted a bar or two or three. There are FS's that you can randomly activate, and still have them be useful, as the above poster said.

Also, it's Shinkuu, not Shinkou, but I don't like spelling out the long vowels in Japanese.

 

[WFL]

We know that if you are slow you lose. The faster you are the more options you have. The faster you are, the better able you can trick an opponent. It doesn't matter if Ike is ridiculously strong, if there is a major Brawl tournament within the first year or so there won't be an Ike player to make it beyond mediocre placements simply because the smart players would easily work around the slowness and take advantage of it.

Unless of course the character is way too fast for someone to control, in which case they can't be used to their full potential. This happens in melee just because your fingers need to move so fast to do some things.

Also, Ike is ridiculously, and I stress ridiculously so much just because of his comparison to Bowser in melee, strong. I saw an E for All video with Ike, and he hit a fox that had like 42% and killed it easily. This was in a FFA of course so no one will run into that move because it is so slow, about as slow as a Bowser F-smash. Usually the only way someone gets hit by a Gimpyfish combo is if they get mindgame'd into it by thinking he was going to do a quicker move than he actually did. This however won't happen against Ike unless the person is an idiot. Almost all of Ike's move have bad lag and with that lag the opponent can just wait for Ike to attack and then punish the lag. Of course a couple of Ike's moves might have less lag when l-canceled it won't really be enough to win.

Also just to emphasize how slow Ike is:

Ike is much, MUCH slower than either Ganon OR Bowser. I realize that this is a new physics engine, but he is VERY slow when compared to the rest of the cast. I'm trying to put the least amount of bias in this update that I can. I really wanted Ike to be good after seeing him played, and I honestly didn't believe that he was as slow as people were telling me; then I played as him. His aerials are ALL slow, his tilts are slower than most smashes, his smashes are almost the same speed as his tilts. He really, REALLY lacks in speed. After watching some of the videos of Ike I find myself doubting that he is really as slow as I recall. Visually some of the startup of his moves is actually hidden; he appears to be much faster than he really is in the videos. Let me make another thing clear. Ike is NOT very laggy. Ike does NOT have a large amount of lag after his aerials, he just has slow activation time on them, which is MUCH more difficult to get around on a competitive level of play.

I didn't realize how most of his attacks have little lag, but even a large amount of start-up time is just as bad.

 

[Jonkenden]

every FS have ways to be dodged.

Super sonic can actually be hit back by attacks, so a skilled player could just continously knock him back. I'm not sure if it's only smash attacks or other special attacks that work in this manner as it was only shown shortly in a video.

Peach FS only affect players on the ground, everyone in the air ignores the sleep effect. So keeping yourself airborne is the way to go.

I find it silly that FS balls would be banned without even anyone having played the game, short of a demo with time limit.

 

[GhostAnime]

i give an a++ to items smash we want to show how we vary from the other fighting games and to do that we need to use the items at our disposal

Smash Bros. is already different from other fighting games.

 

[The Director]

I was thinking about this the other day...

...at first I wasn't adverse to using the smash ball in competitive play, but then I thought: well the whole point of a tournament is trying to prove your superior skill to others. So, if you're so good at smash then why do you need a smash ball?

I say put it on if you want, if you don't want to use it you don't have to. Frankly, DK has a ****ty final smash anyway so it won't make a difference.

 

[Kazydai]

If they are alowed in the game it will just become unbalanced.

Since when was Smash ever balanced? Ever heard of a tier list?

 

[Sliq]

Since when was Smash ever balanced? Ever heard of a tier list?

It MIGHT make it MORE unbalanced. It might now. The only real way is to test it out.

 

[Psydon]

Even if the game was somehow perfectly balanced there'd still be a tier list.

Anyway, Silq is right. We'll only know for sure once we play the game and test everything out. I will remain pessimistic.

 

[Tony_]

This is what I am mainly worried about. Certain characters can only be used via final smashes, and turning them off may make the game seem empty and redundant. This sound strange, but its exactly what might happen if the smash balls were turned off.

 

[Fearthesmash]

no, it should not be allowed in tournies

people like this need to disappear, seriously. The game isn't even ****ing out yet and you want to play:
Only Fox
No items
FD
4 stock
short hop laser and shine only

Wait till the game comes out before you judge, the actual decent players who actually compete in tourneys will decide wether or not smash balls or items in general get used and the smart ones wil allow due consideration of them before banning them. Just like they were when Melee was released.

 

[Psydon]

people like this need to disappear, seriously. The game isn't even ****ing out yet and you want to play:
Only Fox
No items
FD
4 stock
short hop laser and shine only

Wait till the game comes out before you judge, the actual decent players who actually compete in tourneys will decide wether or not smash balls or items in general get used and the smart ones wil allow due consideration of them before banning them. Just like they were when Melee was released.

Please don't say that about him. You are right; it will be the players who decide, but let's face it, quite a lot of people believe that in the end they will be banned. That doesn't mean that those who believe as such have a narrow view of how to play the game.

I want FSes in tournaments, but I believe that they'll be banned. Wanna know how I like to play?

Samus or Mario
All broken items turned off, everything else set to Very High
Anything but FD, PF, IG and BD.
3 stock
Enjoy the war ^_^

You can't judge someone based on a single viewpoint.

 

[darkNES386]

Going under the assumption that this game is attempting to try to balance characters. I think it's safe to assume that removing the final smashes will NOT ruin a characters chance of winning a match. However, it doesn't appear that any of the characters have a move that = instant game over for the other player's stock for the following reasons:

Some of the final smashes are actually hard to control and can also be executed poorly. If peach misuses her final smash... she can give other players the chance to gain health back. If sonic/pikachu (in final smash mode) are cruising around off stage when they go back to normal they end up wasting one of their own stocks.

As players get better at using the final smashes... players will also get better at learning to dodge...avoid... or even counter-attack someone else who is doing their final smash. Let's not forget that you can smack the item right out of the person if they are holding on to it.

So while some moves require proper positioning... they face the weakness of someone preventing them from using their final smash or getting a better position.
Some like Bowsers/Pikachus/Sonics/Yoshi/Diddy invovle them going crazy and once again, you just need to avoid them or in some cases counter attack.

Let's face it... even a character with a hammer in melee is no real threat to a smart player. There are plenty of ways to stop a hammer crazed character and then completely ruin their day..... bowser fortress and knock off edge.... anyone following me here?...

I'm not saying all items are balanced... if a heart take appears... well..... not much you can do there.

I just hope some people give it a chance instead of instantly assuming they make players broken or put random luck into the game.

 

[Sliq]

This is what I am mainly worried about. Certain characters can only be used via final smashes, and turning them off may make the game seem empty and redundant. This sound strange, but its exactly what might happen if the smash balls were turned off.

I think you mean certain "character."

 

[NES n00b]

All FSes have to be smartly used or are difficult to control (to paraphrase)

Ummm. . . . .not really. How would activating Wario's FS take great strategy or skill? It is an automatic powerup with no downsides besides too fast of bike (lol) and maybe not getting as much damage or kills activated at the wrong time (assuming it is timed). GigaBowser will result in a stock. There is no real way to avoid it. It takes up most of the stage, cannot be stunned, perfect ledgehop camping is gone, and GigaBowser can easily swipe someone trying to air stall above the stage. Only stalling under the stage I can see as effective, but there is a huge risk that GigaBowser monster range would make it so he can hit below the ledge. Pit's. . . .he gets free sheild pressuring and stage control while he pummels/does his own thing.

I could also mention the fact that the using of some FSes that take some skill to use ruins the finer aspects of one to one competition with no items, but I don't think you guys would take that into consideration. =\ Wait. . . . . .why are most of you arguing anyways? I don't think most people here would even go to a tourney or at least, not anything besides friend's and game store tournies.

 

[sonic130]

Can you use your special move only once per match?

 

[SirroMinus1]

Can you use your special move only once per match?

no special moves can be used all the time why ask such a dum question?