Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[TheGlitchMaster]

we need a final smash. if we didn't ice climbers would suck again.... and i know i'm making like 333 enimies now...

 

[darkNES386]

Can you use your special move only once per match?

no special moves can be used all the time why ask such a dum question?

"The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed." - the dojo

perhaps not such a dumb question.

nes noob... you bring up a good point. The fact of the matter is that there will probably be both types. It will be interesting to see which one the community recognizes more, but regardless... nothing has changed... people can make tournaments with whatever rules they want.

 

[orintemple]

no special moves can be used all the time why ask such a dum question?

I think by "special move" he meant Final Smash. I heard that Final Smash can only be used once per match but apparently no one else heard this so maybe I was jsut dreaming. I could swear I heard it though. If that is the case I see no reason to ban them because both players basically get one stock for free from the ball. Of course you have to take the crappy Final Smashes into account but I think the characters will be balanced to take the power of their Final Smash into account.

So I did hear what I thought I heard, not sure how I missed that last post though...

 

[sonic130]

no special moves can be used all the time why ask such a dum question?

I meant after you get the smash ball
Cause on youtube I've only seen 1 person use their brawl move once per match.

 

[Luigi player]

You can use the final smash as often as you get the smash ball. (How else would people know that Zero Suit Samus has a final smash?)

 

[Megavitamins]

There was a thread a while ago that showed how when people aredoing really bad. (I think it waas around 3 stocks down) the game gives a stock. Might be kinda unfair?

 

[Desh.]

kso i've seen a lot of posts saying "it takes skill to get the smash ball " well..that may be true..but last time i checked a fighting game needs to take skill at fighting..but hey, if i can just get good at opening up a fkn ball and aiming and pressing b to win...i'm all for it

/sarcasm

even nintendo states it. its a"game changing" thing >.>

not to mention how some FS are good, some are bad etc.
pity smashes wtf? why the hell should you reward someone for being ****? if theyre losing already they need to get better. they dont need to be given a free stock off >.>

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

kso i've seen a lot of posts saying "it takes skill to get the smash ball " well..that may be true..but last time i checked a fighting game needs to take skill at fighting..but hey, if i can just get good at opening up a fkn ball and aiming and pressing b to win...i'm all for it

/sarcasm

even nintendo states it. its a"game changing" thing >.>

not to mention how some FS are good, some are bad etc.
pity smashes wtf? why the hell should you reward someone for being ****? if theyre losing already they need to get better. they dont need to be given a free stock off >.>

A pity Final Smash is hardly a free stock off. And aiming and pressing B won't be OMG TEH WIN!!

 

[Icetrash]

What about all the Samus players who dont wish to turn into ZSS, and vise versa? NO SMASH BALLS FTW.

 

[pdk]

kso i've seen a lot of posts saying "it takes skill to get the smash ball " well..that may be true..but last time i checked a fighting game needs to take skill at fighting..but hey, if i can just get good at opening up a fkn ball and aiming and pressing b to win...i'm all for it

yeah the ball will ALWAYS be there so it'll be just an 8-minute contest to open the ball!

 

[Bballnforlife05]

it definitely will not be aloud in tournies. one its an item and two its too powerful

 

[Cog]

I don't think that the excuse for not having smash balls in because it comes from boxes and capsules that may or may not explode, is a valid arguament because don't the boxes that will explode have a sign on them warning that they will. I don't know if this is the same for capsules or barrels, but i think that the smash balls should be given a chance because there are ways to avoid or dodge them, and plenty of new startegies that will arise.

 

[courte]

plain and simple this game is evolving so we need to as well

 

[Deleted member]

plain and simple this game is evolving so we need to as well

Wow...I wish everyone thought that way.

 

[MookieRah]

plain and simple this game is evolving so we need to as well

For pretty much all the current competitive smashers this is a no brainer. I don't think we should take everything we learned from establishing rules and bans and just toss them into the air because Brawl has a few new elements. I can see giving items a new chance if we have more control over them, but smash balls are just too much.

It's fairly obvious that this is a hinderance to the competitive scene. Talk about balance issues, the whole Samus thing, and etc. It's just not feasible.

 

[darkNES386]

It's fairly obvious that this is a hinderance to the competitive scene. Talk about balance issues, the whole Samus thing, and etc. It's just not feasible.

This is relevant to the samus/zamus discussion which might be dependent on smashballs.

Edit: My Bad on the whole low tier changing rule

 

[phoenix67042]

here's what i gotta say..........i say let items in! I've always enjoyed items and i think that "professionals" can't handle 'em aren't really that professional.........just like those people that can only play one-on-one and then say that the mutiple people are to much of a distraction..........of coarse, I do say in a tournament stance let's do a limit to items.....like pokeballs and assist trophies I would take out since it's mostly luck, but hey thats just my opinion.

 

[Sliq]

I was not here when similar decisions were made about melee. Is shiek/zelda just simply considered two characters in the same package (the reason why most tournaments won't let you switch). Besides Zelda's awesome recovery (in comparison to shieks) was there any other reason for the split?

This is relevant to the samus/zamus discussion which might be dependent on smashballs.
I'm not asking about samus/zamus though, I'm asking about a known game and known characters (melee)

What tournaments don't let you switch? Answer: none, but you are trying to come off like you are a smart guy. Furthermore, they transform via down b, not final smash.

 

[MookieRah]

This is relevant to the samus/zamus discussion which might be dependent on smashballs.

If Zamus can ONLY come about due to smash balls, then that is all the fault of Sakurai and not of the tournament scene. Why would ANYONE in their right mind only allow the transformation to be like that? It's so profoundly dumb.

What I said before still stands. It's sad that Nintendo didn't even try to balance smash balls better, cause I would have loved to have seen them in the tournament scene.

 

[Samochan]

One thing I wanna toss into the debate pot as well... when you aquire smash ball, you cannot use your b moves anymore. I think that's taking away a lot of the game's elements, just think about a fox that can't use shine or recover. As peach I would still like to pull out turnipses, final smash limits the players options in attacking with normal attacks, which also forces the player to use the fs immediately to regain his b moves and cause he is in danger to lose the smash ball or get knocked off stage and unable to recover. This takes away strategic elements from the game, imo. Things like baiting and camping are rendered useless when someone aquires smash ball. I would find it hard to bait a Mario on Battlefield and then dodge his final smash into punishment, since it can pretty much cover whole stage. And even if they miss, they're invincible, so they get no cons on using a superawesome attack. If something is very good in one way, it should have obvious flaws to balance it out, otherwise it becomes broken and too abusable. Kinda like top tiers on ssbm. >_>

 

[Deleted member]

One thing I wanna toss into the debate pot as well... when you aquire smash ball, you cannot use your b moves anymore. I think that's taking away a lot of the game's elements, just think about a fox that can't use shine or recover. As peach I would still like to pull out turnipses, final smash limits the players options in attacking with normal attacks, which also forces the player to use the fs immediately to regain his b moves and cause he is in danger to lose the smash ball or get knocked off stage and unable to recover. This takes away strategic elements from the game, imo. Things like baiting and camping are rendered useless when someone aquires smash ball. I would find it hard to bait a Mario on Battlefield and then dodge his final smash into punishment, since it can pretty much cover whole stage. And even if they miss, they're invincible, so they get no cons on using a superawesome attack. If something is very good in one way, it should have obvious flaws to balance it out, otherwise it becomes broken and too abusable. Kinda like top tiers on ssbm. >_>

This is just wrong. You can still use your up B, side B, and down B, the only thing that sets off your Final Smash is pressing JUST B with no direction involved. So you only lose one move.

 

[Xanderous]

I've never been in a tournament that didn't let me switch from Sheik to Zelda.

 

[MookieRah]

Kinda like top tiers on ssbm. >_>

Hey now, that isn't true. I know you have beefs with the top tiers, but they aren't THAT good.

Didn't they say that basically all the projectile FS's were easily avoidable? It would make finding the opportunity to actually use it effectively pretty hard. Also some FS's are incredibly easy, require little to no thought, and pretty much renders the opponent crap for about 20 seconds. Giga Bowser and Super Sonic are too good. There is the problem right there. Some require a lot of thought in their application (a good thing, it makes the game deeper), others are just ridiculously easy, and others are practically useless. I could *kinda* understand if that characters that had an easier time cracking open the smash balls had slightly weaker FS's or something, but there is no rhyme or reason behind them, and it's obvious that they weren't thinking of balance and only what would be "cool."

 

[Rx-]

if the ball spawns on top of you then you pretty much win the stock.

No, No, It's not like that. You will be battling your opponent, and it will be floating around in the air. Both of you are going to try and incorporate hitting the smash ball into your offensive and defensive strategies. If one person gets the smash ball, you can get up in there face and try and knock it from them. It's not just something that appears and then the closest character gets it.

 

[Samochan]

This is just wrong. You can still use your up B, side B, and down B, the only thing that sets off your Final Smash is pressing JUST B with no direction involved. So you only lose one move.

... I understood what sakurai said wrong then. >_> *slaps herself*

But I still love mah toad. D: And needles and lazers and falcon punch and...

Mookie, I wasn't comparing top tiers on ssbm to final smashes, but more like in general. Top tiers on melee are pretty **** good, sheik doesn't need much to destroy link for example and cg is pretty broken, along with shine and junk.

 

[Luigi player]

here's what i gotta say..........i say let items in! I've always enjoyed items and i think that "professionals" can't handle 'em aren't really that professional.........just like those people that can only play one-on-one and then say that the mutiple people are to much of a distraction..........of coarse, I do say in a tournament stance let's do a limit to items.....like pokeballs and assist trophies I would take out since it's mostly luck, but hey thats just my opinion.

Every item brings luck to the game.
Alone the place where it appears is luck.

 

[Tony_]

If Zamus can ONLY come about due to smash balls, then that is all the fault of Sakurai and not of the tournament scene. Why would ANYONE in their right mind only allow the transformation to be like that? It's so profoundly dumb.

What I said before still stands. It's sad that Nintendo didn't even try to balance smash balls better, cause I would have loved to have seen them in the tournament scene.

Most of the players at the E for All event weren't that good at smash, so we litterally have no idea how "unbalanced" final smashes are. The only Final Smash that it too good is Bowser's. Thats it. All the others, (MAYBE save for Lucas) are somewhat balanced.

 

[MookieRah]

Top tiers on melee are pretty **** good, sheik doesn't need much to destroy link for example and cg is pretty broken, along with shine and junk.

I know they are good, but they often get blown out of proportion as well. If they were so good then Taj wouldn't be able to take on Forward with Mewtwo, and BUM wouldn't get anywhere with Donkey Kong, and Gimpy wouldn't be as sexy. People have overcome a lot of the obstacles of the top tiers with lower tiered characters, even in the current metagame. Now obviously these people have other characters to supplement horrid matchups (like Link vs Shiek), but they still manage to rep and do incredibly well.

so we litterally have no idea how "unbalanced" final smashes are.

Lets see from what we know is this:
Mario & Samus's FS: Very easy to avoid in low level play.
Peach: Could be useful, but would have to be set up properly.
DK: Very very circumstantial. By far the worst. *Could* be used to edgeguard. Still not very good.
Pit: Could be used very well if the Pit player knows how to force people into his buddies.
Pika: Probably would be great if it was easier to control.
Yoshi: From what I hear, pretty darn good, but not great.
Fox: I'm pretty sure they said his was pretty lametastic. I don't remember.
Meta: Pretty much a one shot, and it can be comboed from a fair.
Bowser: LOL, attack their weakspot for massive damage.
Sonic: Pretty broke. Some have said you could jab him as he was flying around and it would clank, but I'm pretty sure they said that sometimes that wasn't enough to save them.

From what we know, I can safely say they are obviously not balanced. Yeah, the could be implemented better, but that doesn't make them more balanced.

 

[X-GuardianAce]

After seeing the Smash Ball at E for all, I assumed that it might not get banned. Because it moves around, it more or less eliminates factor of the fastest character getting it first. And also, you have to hit it several times which more or less eliminates the factor of a character using it immediately. And the Final Smash makes up for the weakness of every character that uses it. The thing that ruined the whole issue is the "Pity Final Smash". I think that the Pity Final Smash gives the Smash Ball the "Item Stigma" factor that I wish it didn't have. So I don't think it will be used in tournament play.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I remember seeing Samus' Final Smash for the first time in action. I was like "that's it?" it didn't KO a Mario, and his damage meter didn't exactly "skyrocket". I think they are given more flare in the Dojo, but aren't really game changing.

 

[TheJalapeno]

I think it'd be interesting. But I highly doubt it consider how Tourney goers have Itemaphobia

 

[5150]

uh question how is this even still a discussion? im reading the thread title and it clearly says "PROFESIONAL" yet i see people with <100 posts who joined this year talking like they are good / know what they're talkinga bout. they also are the big reason why sakurai **** on this game, to please their outlandish demands. in general, here's a good way of knowing whether or not you are a "professional". do you agree w/ mookierah (he's a cool dude)? if no then gtfo.

 

[GreenKirby]

I remember seeing Samus' Final Smash for the first time in action. I was like "that's it?" it didn't KO a Mario, and his damage meter didn't exactly "skyrocket". I think they are given more flare in the Dojo, but aren't really game changing.

I think I know what video you're talking about.

Mario barely got damage because he was on top of the Final Smash. Not dead center on it.

 

[Twillight]

I remember seeing Samus' Final Smash for the first time in action. I was like "that's it?" it didn't KO a Mario, and his damage meter didn't exactly "skyrocket". I think they are given more flare in the Dojo, but aren't really game changing.

well image you where at about 66 damage percent and got hit with that , It nearly pushes you off the screen. You see how mario in the demo flew off from 0 to like 40-50 damage, he barely made it back, so I though it was alright.

 

[Epok]

I think a lot of people wanna justify Smash Balls cause there so sweet. but even thought they are really cool, i think they should be treated like any other item in the game and be taken off.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

uh question how is this even still a discussion? im reading the thread title and it clearly says "PROFESIONAL" yet i see people with <100 posts who joined this year talking like they are good / know what they're talkinga bout. they also are the big reason why sakurai **** on this game, to please their outlandish demands. in general, here's a good way of knowing whether or not you are a "professional". do you agree w/ mookierah (he's a cool dude)? if no then gtfo.

Post count and not agreeing with someone doesn't always necessarily make someone a complete idiot who can't play a game to save their life. If you don't like it, perhaps you could go to one of those boards where they only let people like Ken, PC or Gimpy post and discuss professionalistically there; that is, IF they let you -snobby snarky laugh-. Also, if you think Sakurai is ****ting on the game to please the "outlandish" demands of people who don't even know there is a tournament scene for Smash, then maybe you should just change your screen name to Dylan_Tnga. Hold on, -ARE- you Dylan_Tnga incognito...?



You sound like it...Except with more horrible grammar. And now, unlike you, I'll contribute to actual discussion regardless of my skill level or not...I believe Final Smashes are indeed unbalanced and will break a tournament game, as a lot of times it is usually one stock that makes all the difference in such matches. I know it's been said before, but it's only obvious. If both people are at 40 percent with 2 stocks left, and someone gets the Smashball solely because it was closer to them, other person is going to get screwed because once they come back they're taking on someone with still 40 percent and that's a pretty good number when you want to inflict as much damage to your opponent as you can before death. Meaning the person who just got Smashball'ed and returns with one stock left, has an extremely too high a chance of losing.

 

[frankisvital]

uh question how is this even still a discussion? im reading the thread title and it clearly says "PROFESIONAL" yet i see people with <100 posts who joined this year talking like they are good / know what they're talkinga bout. they also are the big reason why sakurai **** on this game, to please their outlandish demands. in general, here's a good way of knowing whether or not you are a "professional". do you agree w/ mookierah (he's a cool dude)? if no then gtfo.

Post count doesn't mean ****, *******. Just because you decide to post whatever crap is flying around in your head at the moment every single time doesn't mean everyone else does. You're an elitist *******, and you're representative of half the problem here on Smashboards.

On-topic:
I think this a decision we can't make yet. It's gonna take some time to see how much of a role FS's play in balancing the game, and then more time on top of that to adapt the tournament scene accordingly. We can't pass judgment on this game; most of us haven't played it, and the ones that have had very little time and limited conditions.

 

[MookieRah]

We can't pass judgment on this game; most of us haven't played it, and the ones that have had very little time and limited conditions.

Am I imagining things, or was Hugs completely against smash balls? Also, I think Gimpy is a bit too optimistic, but I loves him to death. I don't know of many tournament people who think good things about smash balls.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

Am I imagining things, or was Hugs completely against smash balls? Also, I think Gimpy is a bit too optimistic, but I loves him to death. I don't know of many tournament people who think good things about smash balls.

Well MookieRah, I can see where Gimpy is coming from, I mean after all a Smash Attack is much just like a character's move and not just an extension-like item like a Beamsword or something like that, yanno. Kind of like super moves in any recent Street Fighter game, pretty sure those aren't banned in their tournament play; then again, Smash isn't Street Fighter.

 

[hugofalc]

If they are going to be banned from tournaments it should be because of the random aspect they may bring into the match. The logic of banning them because some are better than others is ridiculous though. They are character specific moves and thus are part of the character's moveset. Banning them for this specific reason would be like banning fox's and falco's upsmash from melee because fox's is clearly better.

Another interesting issue with banning smashballs from tournaments would arise if zero suit is not a selectable character. A viable (and cool) character would be removed from tournament play for a completely unrelated purpose.