WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
...have you ever played a Smash Bros. game?
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Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?
- Thread starter clowsui
- Start date
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
i ask for it, at this point.
O Rly?
Smash Cadet
I get the fear it won't be used for tourneys, which means the people I play with are going to be no-item purists and turn them off 
Weaker as in do less dammage and knock back. Not weaker as in not as good.
Jeremy Feifer
Jeremy Feifer
Have you ever played smash like seriouslly...
Interesting yeh.... but be honest... you cant wavedash that good hun?... be honest... no joke..
Leave here... speculation and guessing = intertaining... so go die or something.
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
I learned how to wavedash, but it was more trouble than it was worth since I never play against humans.
Even after I started getting good at it though, it just didn't sit well with me. I don't approve of that technique on the whole.
Jeremy Feifer
Jeremy Feifer
Thats cool eveyone is intitled to their opinion. Aniki dosn't wave-dash and he beat ken so...
ComradeCanada
Smash Journeyman
Yes, it requires skill to grab, skill to use, and balances many characters.
So yes.
So yes.
Jeremy Feifer
Jeremy Feifer
hu?... im confused... ^_^'..?
autobzooty
Smash Journeyman
i believe he's answering the thread title.
VVayfarer
Smash Journeyman
Excactly. Some characters are too unbalanced, but their Final Smash made the gaps smaller.
So i think it's better to have smash ball as activated.
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
Skill to grab? So you're saying it is a player's skill that makes the ball spawn nearer you than your opponent? Face it guys, who gets the Final Smash is based quite largely on random chance. If it appears near you, it might float around over you while you pummel it and claim the final smash. Other times you might hit it once and then it randomly whisks away across the screen toward another player. I've seen all kinds of scenarios like that play out in the E 4 All vids. There's absolutely no way of knowing how you should approach the Smash Ball at any given time because it just randomly floats all over the place.
I won't deny that the dynamics of using/combating a FS are interesting, but the means of obtaining the ball is just too random. With your tournament life on the line, random **** like that just doesn't fly.
Knyaguy
Smash Lord
Yes. I assume many others have said this but it balances Characters.
"Low tier" =good final smash(Bowser)
"High tier" =poor final smash(Meta-Knight)
"Low tier" =good final smash(Bowser)
"High tier" =poor final smash(Meta-Knight)
Jeremy Feifer
Jeremy Feifer
You guys do relize its december 16...? this game should have been out.
VVayfarer
Smash Journeyman
Are you serious? The game was delayed until February 10, and you didn't know?
Mccdbz5
Smash Journeyman
You guys do realize that the game gives you a free Smash Ball if you're losing, right? That is, yet another thing that hinders the game play when Smash Ball's are involved. I mean, honestly guys, let's face it, Smash Ball's aren't meant to be balanced. Just look at it this way; if Smash Ball's are allowed, just think of how much worse characters like Donkey Kong would become because their Final Smashes aren't good enough to help them, while someone like Mario, who's already said to be great in Brawl, has a good Final Smash, resulting in, the person who picked the worse character has an even smaller chance of actually winning.
SilverBlaze
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2007
- Messages
- 86
Please, we hardly know what tiers certain characters are going to fall in to. Sure, Meta-Knight got a huge amount of play time because he's easy to use, but that doesn't automatically make him high-tier.
Look at Marth and Roy - I've noticed that a lot of people started with Roy before realizing he was terrible compared to Marth. If we went off first impressions though, many of us(myself included) would have put Roy in a high tier with Marth in a lower one.
Also, considering the scarcity of the smash ball, it probably won't even out matches all that much. It will probably be responsible for one stock loss per match - hardly a reason for me to use a low tier character against a much higher one.
VVayfarer
Smash Journeyman
You can disable that feature.
Mccdbz5
Smash Journeyman
Really? Huh...guess I missed that little detail.
WastingPenguins
Smash Ace
Uhhhh... that's because he made it up and nowhere has there been any word of the ability to toggle on/off Pity Final Smashes. Maybe you will be able to, maybe not, at this point we have no idea.Really? Huh...guess I missed that little detail.
There was a video of donkey kong doing his final smash and it sent out a huge shock wave that did some dammage and had decent knock back.
Edit: http://youtube.com/watch?v=12-2MOcHKWo&feature=related
thats the video.
KingKraken
Smash Journeyman
Not likely. It appears at random, so having money on the line and something like that happening is quite unfair.
Mr. M
Smash Journeyman
All our pro's will be too injured to even have an opinion after a argument-fist- fight of that magnitude.
I'm sure most of them will agree to just turn off the Smash Ball or something. We'll see I guess.
VVayfarer
Smash Journeyman
So you can restrict it, altough we don't know for sure if that means toggling the pity smash off(on). What else could it mean?Sakurai said:
General Diddy
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2007
- Messages
- 136
Though I think they should, they probably won't since tournaments want to be as skill based as possible, they'd probably removie it stop exploding crates, barrels, caspules...
Assuming the mechanic behind the containers stays the same...which it probably will. -_-;;
I dont get the luck part. The way the smash ball works it flys away from the person attacking it. So its not like nearest person to the smash ball gets it. That takes a lot away from the luck part.
Crispy4001
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2007
- Messages
- 730
Heart containers, stamen, and final Smashes for brawl tourneys!!!
It's only fair.
It's only fair.
Fanewgie
Smash Ace
You have to play with items before even considering having specific items turned on or off. lol.
Seriously though, don't count on it, especially with the free-smash-ball-if-you-suck aspect.
Seriously though, don't count on it, especially with the free-smash-ball-if-you-suck aspect.
i definitely think that smash balls will be part of competitive battling and tournaments because it's technically part of a character's moveset.but the abundance of the item will probably be very low or something like that.
In my opinion, I think they'd be okay, set to very low appearance. Then they'd only appear once or twice a match at most.
So far, no final smash appears to be truly unavoidable (even Peach's does not affect airborne or ledge-hanging opponents, and Sonic's can be cancelled by hitting him as he comes at you). Also, it appears that they take more than a single combo to break. Smash one and it goes flying away.
So you have to be careful how you do it. Also, if someone is attacking it, they leave themselves vulnerable while doing so.
The only real problem is if faster characters get too much of an advantage when it comes to catching them. Sonic is an example.
So far, no final smash appears to be truly unavoidable (even Peach's does not affect airborne or ledge-hanging opponents, and Sonic's can be cancelled by hitting him as he comes at you). Also, it appears that they take more than a single combo to break. Smash one and it goes flying away.
So you have to be careful how you do it. Also, if someone is attacking it, they leave themselves vulnerable while doing so.
The only real problem is if faster characters get too much of an advantage when it comes to catching them. Sonic is an example.
Sl1th
Smash Apprentice
I agree that smash balls would be ok in tournaments if set to low, but they have the potential of making or breaking a game, and it also adds a lot of outside influence to the game. By this I mean players use skill to determine whos best and they dont like obstacles like items and stage events affecting gameplay, thats why we fight at Final Destination with no items on. A smash ball appearing on the feil is similar to a bomb-omb dropping down, and for reasons like this I beleive they will not be seen in the tournament scene.
I agree that if they are in Tourneys they should be set on low (if not very low) but I dont agree with the "like a bomb dropping down" part. Smash Balls are nothing like normal items in that when/where they apper gives no noticable advantage to who ever is nearest as they fly away from who ever is attacking them. They only time that a Smash Ball gives any advantage is after the Final Smash is broken out of it. Even then its not an gigantic advantage becasue its not guarenteed to KO and in some cases simple to doge (all are dogeable just some are a little more complicated). Smash Balls have very little in common with normal items (this might explane why we havent seen an item update for them but we have seen a Final Smash/Smash ball how to play update...twice).
Knight-errant
Smash Apprentice
The problem we have here is "item-phobia." Because in Melee items were too random, people banned them. And now--simply because the smash ball is an "item"--people just want to ban the smash ball without even giving it a chance. So first off, don't get all worked up just because the smash ball is an "item." That doesn't automatically make it banned. Whether it's too random or not is why it should be banned.
Secondly, the smash ball is different than any other item in that it's not just a bob-omb you can throw at someone, but it actually gives your character their own special move. And not only that, but the move requires skill to 1. Acquire it 2. Set it up and 3. Successfully hit with it. You don't get a stock on your opponent simply because you picked up the ball.
Thirdly, how good or not someone's FS is has nothing to do with whether or not they should be banned. Does anyone complain because Mario's down-b isn't as good as Fox's down-b? No. So why should we complain about one character's FS being better or worse than another?
Fourthly, smash just isn't ALL about skill. Accept it. Yes, it's MOSTLY about skill, but not ALL. An example is Peach's turnips. Is she banned because she has a chance of pulling out a dead turnip or a bob-omb? No. Not only is she not banned, but neither is her down-b (bob-ombs and all). There IS a LITTLE bit of randomness in Smash, so cope with it.
To add to that, smash balls aren't THAT random. They appear randomly, but there is no clear advantage for either player based on when or where they appear (because they take a little while to break). And that's the only thing random about them. Everything else is skill-based (i.e. Knocking the ball out of your opponent, using the ball yourself, dodging the FS, etc). So you "it's too random!" arguers don't really have much ground for your argument.
Lastly, because of the nature of smash ball, it presents a great way for battlers to test their skills even more, now having to adjust their fighting style based on when a smash ball appears (very similar to how they must adjust based on when a stage morphs). And also when it is acquired do they attempt to hit it out of their opponent, or run away? etc. It just adds a lot to the game, and 95% of that adding to the game is skill, and 5% of that is luck (kind of like Peach's turnips, eh?)
What think ye? Support? Rejection?
EDIT: by the way, I agree with Someguy's post just above ^
Secondly, the smash ball is different than any other item in that it's not just a bob-omb you can throw at someone, but it actually gives your character their own special move. And not only that, but the move requires skill to 1. Acquire it 2. Set it up and 3. Successfully hit with it. You don't get a stock on your opponent simply because you picked up the ball.
Thirdly, how good or not someone's FS is has nothing to do with whether or not they should be banned. Does anyone complain because Mario's down-b isn't as good as Fox's down-b? No. So why should we complain about one character's FS being better or worse than another?
Fourthly, smash just isn't ALL about skill. Accept it. Yes, it's MOSTLY about skill, but not ALL. An example is Peach's turnips. Is she banned because she has a chance of pulling out a dead turnip or a bob-omb? No. Not only is she not banned, but neither is her down-b (bob-ombs and all). There IS a LITTLE bit of randomness in Smash, so cope with it.
To add to that, smash balls aren't THAT random. They appear randomly, but there is no clear advantage for either player based on when or where they appear (because they take a little while to break). And that's the only thing random about them. Everything else is skill-based (i.e. Knocking the ball out of your opponent, using the ball yourself, dodging the FS, etc). So you "it's too random!" arguers don't really have much ground for your argument.
Lastly, because of the nature of smash ball, it presents a great way for battlers to test their skills even more, now having to adjust their fighting style based on when a smash ball appears (very similar to how they must adjust based on when a stage morphs). And also when it is acquired do they attempt to hit it out of their opponent, or run away? etc. It just adds a lot to the game, and 95% of that adding to the game is skill, and 5% of that is luck (kind of like Peach's turnips, eh?)
What think ye? Support? Rejection?
EDIT: by the way, I agree with Someguy's post just above ^
Sl1th
Smash Apprentice
The whole "random being bad" was what I was trying to get across but I like your points. Personally I wouldn't mind smash balls because they add a whole new dimension to the game, which was the reason they were added in the first place.
ronnietheboywonder
Smash Apprentice
They should totally add the smash ball, as long as they take out all other items in tournys, and probably put the appearance on very low to medium or something...
Airgemini
Chansey
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2007
- Messages
- 9,410
- 3DS FC
- 2406-5625-4787
For my settings I would take off every item except the smash ball.
evilflame101
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2007
- Messages
- 320
i very much disagree with this, the smash ball takes more then one hit to get, and in the competitive scene players generally are close to each other, so you wont be able to react to the smash ball right away, because you are probably hot on the offense or the defense. Also the smash ball is not an auto kill, it depends on the character, level, and skill of the opponent. if you get a smash ball with peach, you probably wont get a guaranteed kill. Also for samus mains (me) it would not be fair for this to be off, because it would be like banning ZSS. I think that in tourneys where there is no money at stake it should be in, along with all tourneys, the one exception might be extremely high stake tourneys, but then again if the tourney advertises that smash balls will be on, then you have the choice if you want to join it or not, no one is forcing you to compete at that tourney. I think it will really depend on the view of the tourney organizer, i do not think it will even come to the idea of no smash balls ever, or only smash balls.
also if it responed in a specific spot, that would make it even more broken because you would know where you have to be, and it would make the battle too focused on getting the smash ball.