Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[Whirling Birdo]

Anyone commenting on inequity of the quality of characters FS's between characters as a reason they shouldn't be in pro play, that point is ridiculous, its like complaining that Fox is faster than Bowser when you could have chosen to use Fox aswell.

 

[SuperLink9]

I've seen many Smash Balls per match sometimes (how else has Samus gone to ZSS and back?)

Personally I doubt they will be allowed in tournaments. This is only a problem for ZSS users (or Giga Bowser users )

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

Are you serious? The game was delayed until February 10, and you didn't know?

WHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAA NOOOOOOOOOO... why arent there people rioting in the streets!?...

By the way... when I said its dec.16, I was just tryin to be random...

 

[Pyroloserkid]

Here's what I think and some true facts on this issue.

For the first SIX MONTHS of Melee tournaments, items were on. For SIX WHOLE MONTHS. Some tournaments still offer items to this day. What I'm trying to point out here is that items will be on for the first little while. This is so that the competitive players can decide whether items should be allowed in tournaments in the future. The main reason why items were banned in SSBM was because of the exploding crates, barrels, and capsules. Sakurai has gotten rid of the random death boxes buy putting logo's on them. Now you can tell which boxes explode and which slide. Now those are just the facts. Items will be in Brawl tournaments for the first little while, and then they may be banned, and they may not.

Now, in this arguement, I stand on the FOR side. I think Smash Balls deserve to be used in tournaments. A final smash is a move unique to each character. This move is just as unique and character specific as a character's B moves. Removing Final Smashes from tournaments would be like banning Fox in melee tournaments. Just because final smashes SEEM unbalanced, doesn't mean they should be banned. In SSBM, Fox is massively unbalanced, but is he banned?

Obtaining the smash ball is a different issue, mind you. Sure some characters will be able to break it open faster than others, but that's a given! Some characters run faster than others, some characters moves come out faster than others. We might as well ban the entire game! Different characters will have different pro's and con's. Some characters might be good at breaking open the smash balls, some characters might suck ALOT at it. Either way, different characters house different attributes which is what makes this game so diverse.

Now comes the debate of some final smashes being better than others. Is Falco's neutral B better than Peach's? Indeed it is. Are we going to ban Falco from Melee tournaments? Of course some Final Smashes will be better than others. Making a game perfectly balanced makes it extremely boring. The diversity of Smash is why people love it so much. Secondly, the Final Smashes aren't all one hit KO's. They only kill at certain percents, and alot of the ones we've seen are easily avoidable. To set off most of these final smashes, you either have to be playing somebody REALLY stupid, or be combo-ing. Being able to grab the Smash Ball and use it effectively will take planning, precision, and intelligence. It's not just an automatic +1 like people tend to think it is.

Then we have the Pity Final Smash. What's the big deal with this? If you're destroying someone that badly, you should EASILY be able to knock the Final Smash out of them or avoid it. If they're so bad to the point where they get the pity final smash, you shouldn't have a problem. Sure they get an awesome move to use against you for free, but if you're so amazing that they get the pity smash, why can't you prevent it or turn it around on them? Most people are scared at the thought of a free final smash, but you only get one if you suck, and if you suck enough to get one, I'd like to see you use it effectively.

For a compromise, I offer this idea. At SSBM tournaments, before a match each player picks a default stage and bans it. Then the loser of the round gets to pick a stage (neutral or counter). Now we have two options. Before a match, the players can agree whether to have final smashes on or off. If you can't agree because you're both stubborn, then there's a second solution: the loser of the round can choose to have final smashes on AND pick a stage, or can choose the stage/finalsmash and the other player will get to decide whatever the loser player doesn't pick.
For example: You beat me. For the next round, I decide to play with Final Smashes on, but instead of me picking the stage, YOU get to pick. This works vice-versa as well.

Really, after sitting down and thinking about it, Final Smashes don't seem so bad. Call them broken, call them unfair, but that's just your opinion. I myself think Fox and Marth are broken and unfair, but before declaring them BANNED, I look at the pro's and the con's. I've played with Fox and Marth, and they're tons of fun, so I gave them a second chance. Atleast give final smashes a FIRST chance.

 

[Sliq]

Here's what I think and some true facts on this issue.

For the first SIX MONTHS of Melee tournaments, items were on. For SIX WHOLE MONTHS. Some tournaments still offer items to this day. What I'm trying to point out here is that items will be on for the first little while. This is so that the competitive players can decide whether items should be allowed in tournaments in the future. The main reason why items were banned in SSBM was because of the exploding crates, barrels, and capsules. Sakurai has gotten rid of the random death boxes buy putting logo's on them. Now you can tell which boxes explode and which slide. Now those are just the facts. Items will be in Brawl tournaments for the first little while, and then they may be banned, and they may not.

Now, in this arguement, I stand on the FOR side. I think Smash Balls deserve to be used in tournaments. A final smash is a move unique to each character. This move is just as unique and character specific as a character's B moves. Removing Final Smashes from tournaments would be like banning Fox in melee tournaments. Just because final smashes SEEM unbalanced, doesn't mean they should be banned. In SSBM, Fox is massively unbalanced, but is he banned?

Obtaining the smash ball is a different issue, mind you. Sure some characters will be able to break it open faster than others, but that's a given! Some characters run faster than others, some characters moves come out faster than others. We might as well ban the entire game! Different characters will have different pro's and con's. Some characters might be good at breaking open the smash balls, some characters might suck ALOT at it. Either way, different characters house different attributes which is what makes this game so diverse.

Now comes the debate of some final smashes being better than others. Is Falco's neutral B better than Peach's? Indeed it is. Are we going to ban Falco from Melee tournaments? Of course some Final Smashes will be better than others. Making a game perfectly balanced makes it extremely boring. The diversity of Smash is why people love it so much. Secondly, the Final Smashes aren't all one hit KO's. They only kill at certain percents, and alot of the ones we've seen are easily avoidable. To set off most of these final smashes, you either have to be playing somebody REALLY stupid, or be combo-ing. Being able to grab the Smash Ball and use it effectively will take planning, precision, and intelligence. It's not just an automatic +1 like people tend to think it is.

Then we have the Pity Final Smash. What's the big deal with this? If you're destroying someone that badly, you should EASILY be able to knock the Final Smash out of them or avoid it. If they're so bad to the point where they get the pity final smash, you shouldn't have a problem. Sure they get an awesome move to use against you for free, but if you're so amazing that they get the pity smash, why can't you prevent it or turn it around on them? Most people are scared at the thought of a free final smash, but you only get one if you suck, and if you suck enough to get one, I'd like to see you use it effectively.

For a compromise, I offer this idea. At SSBM tournaments, before a match each player picks a default stage and bans it. Then the loser of the round gets to pick a stage (neutral or counter). Now we have two options. Before a match, the players can agree whether to have final smashes on or off. If you can't agree because you're both stubborn, then there's a second solution: the loser of the round can choose to have final smashes on AND pick a stage, or can choose the stage/finalsmash and the other player will get to decide whatever the loser player doesn't pick.
For example: You beat me. For the next round, I decide to play with Final Smashes on, but instead of me picking the stage, YOU get to pick. This works vice-versa as well.

Really, after sitting down and thinking about it, Final Smashes don't seem so bad. Call them broken, call them unfair, but that's just your opinion. I myself think Fox and Marth are broken and unfair, but before declaring them BANNED, I look at the pro's and the con's. I've played with Fox and Marth, and they're tons of fun, so I gave them a second chance. Atleast give final smashes a FIRST chance.

tl;dr

Someone who joined 6 months ago and already has 2,700 posts trying to tell people about the competitive scene despite a unfathomable misunderstanding about it.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

Not only was quoting that considering you're posting right under it unnecessary, you have no idea what you're talking about.

My join date and post count are completely irrelevant to my knowledge of Smash. I could've been a lurker since 2003 for all you know. Also, if intelligence is based on Post Count and Join Date, you're not to far behind me.

On top of that, you have no clue how much I understand the competitive scene do you? How do you figure you can judge someone's knowledge and skill just by reading their basic info? That my friend, is extremely unintelligent and you have an unfathomable misunderstanding of how people differ.

For all we know, I've been playing tournaments for years, my alias is Bombsoldier, and I honestly live in Japan. Good job, genius.

 

[Manny G.]

I say yes because its a leagl finisher and there other competitive games with finishers

 

[Galvanic]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but--

If you ban Smash Balls won't you also be missing out on...

 

[Pyroloserkid]

WarioMan yes, but we don't know about ZSS for sure yet.

 

[EDreams]

tl;dr

Someone who joined 6 months ago and already has 2,700 posts trying to tell people about the competitive scene despite a unfathomable misunderstanding about it.

Someone trying to disprove a thought-out point with an unfathomable amount of immaturity and a gross misunderstanding of intelligent debate.

 

[iMichael]

Here's what I think and some true facts on this issue.

For the first SIX MONTHS of Melee tournaments, items were on. For SIX WHOLE MONTHS. Some tournaments still offer items to this day. What I'm trying to point out here is that items will be on for the first little while. This is so that the competitive players can decide whether items should be allowed in tournaments in the future. The main reason why items were banned in SSBM was because of the exploding crates, barrels, and capsules. Sakurai has gotten rid of the random death boxes buy putting logo's on them. Now you can tell which boxes explode and which slide. Now those are just the facts. Items will be in Brawl tournaments for the first little while, and then they may be banned, and they may not.

Now, in this arguement, I stand on the FOR side. I think Smash Balls deserve to be used in tournaments. A final smash is a move unique to each character. This move is just as unique and character specific as a character's B moves. Removing Final Smashes from tournaments would be like banning Fox in melee tournaments. Just because final smashes SEEM unbalanced, doesn't mean they should be banned. In SSBM, Fox is massively unbalanced, but is he banned?

Obtaining the smash ball is a different issue, mind you. Sure some characters will be able to break it open faster than others, but that's a given! Some characters run faster than others, some characters moves come out faster than others. We might as well ban the entire game! Different characters will have different pro's and con's. Some characters might be good at breaking open the smash balls, some characters might suck ALOT at it. Either way, different characters house different attributes which is what makes this game so diverse.

Now comes the debate of some final smashes being better than others. Is Falco's neutral B better than Peach's? Indeed it is. Are we going to ban Falco from Melee tournaments? Of course some Final Smashes will be better than others. Making a game perfectly balanced makes it extremely boring. The diversity of Smash is why people love it so much. Secondly, the Final Smashes aren't all one hit KO's. They only kill at certain percents, and alot of the ones we've seen are easily avoidable. To set off most of these final smashes, you either have to be playing somebody REALLY stupid, or be combo-ing. Being able to grab the Smash Ball and use it effectively will take planning, precision, and intelligence. It's not just an automatic +1 like people tend to think it is.

Then we have the Pity Final Smash. What's the big deal with this? If you're destroying someone that badly, you should EASILY be able to knock the Final Smash out of them or avoid it. If they're so bad to the point where they get the pity final smash, you shouldn't have a problem. Sure they get an awesome move to use against you for free, but if you're so amazing that they get the pity smash, why can't you prevent it or turn it around on them? Most people are scared at the thought of a free final smash, but you only get one if you suck, and if you suck enough to get one, I'd like to see you use it effectively.

For a compromise, I offer this idea. At SSBM tournaments, before a match each player picks a default stage and bans it. Then the loser of the round gets to pick a stage (neutral or counter). Now we have two options. Before a match, the players can agree whether to have final smashes on or off. If you can't agree because you're both stubborn, then there's a second solution: the loser of the round can choose to have final smashes on AND pick a stage, or can choose the stage/finalsmash and the other player will get to decide whatever the loser player doesn't pick.
For example: You beat me. For the next round, I decide to play with Final Smashes on, but instead of me picking the stage, YOU get to pick. This works vice-versa as well.

Really, after sitting down and thinking about it, Final Smashes don't seem so bad. Call them broken, call them unfair, but that's just your opinion. I myself think Fox and Marth are broken and unfair, but before declaring them BANNED, I look at the pro's and the con's. I've played with Fox and Marth, and they're tons of fun, so I gave them a second chance. Atleast give final smashes a FIRST chance.

tl;dr

Someone who joined 6 months ago and already has 2,700 posts trying to tell people about the competitive scene despite a unfathomable misunderstanding about it.

lol dang you have that many post already in just 6 months........dude your on here too much

 

[Pyroloserkid]

lol dang you have that many post already in just 6 months........dude your on here too much

-Sigh-

I love how people know nothing about me yet they assume based on my post count.

You can easily make 20 posts within an hour. You just have to explore all areas of SWF and post anywhere that interests you. You don't have to spam it up and have no life to get that many posts.

 

[Frogla]

-Sigh-

I love how people know nothing about me yet they assume based on my post count.

You can easily make 20 posts within an hour. You just have to explore all areas of SWF and post anywhere that interests you. You don't have to spam it up and have no life to get that many posts.

I know your a loser kid. Other than that get used to sterotyping and people expecting alot or a little by the nametag you have.

 

[flyinfilipino]

-Sigh-

I love how people know nothing about me yet they assume based on my post count.

You can easily make 20 posts within an hour. You just have to explore all areas of SWF and post anywhere that interests you. You don't have to spam it up and have no life to get that many posts.

A certain Princess Peach 777 has more than 500 posts after about two weeks....

 

[Pyroloserkid]

I know your a loser kid. Other than that get used to sterotyping and people expecting alot or a little by the nametag you have.

I'm not, and yeh, I should get used to stereotyping. Maybe I should be a jack*** too so I can appear like an ordinary member.

A certain Princess Peach 777 has more than 500 posts after about two weeks....

Now THAT was too much free time and spam.

 

[PyroRyuken]

the smash ball can turn the tide of the battle or just make one person destroy a person even more. Using the smash ball is like a free kill for some of the characters so I doubt it will be allowed in tourneys.

 

[BananaNut]

^^ to the post above.
It's not exactaly a free kill, it might KO at a certian low percent, but if you look at the videos the victems don't get insantally KO'ed.




As for me, I'm on the FOR side, and I agree with what Pyroloserkid said.

That, and it won't take any fun out of the game at all. There's SKILL involved in getting the smash ball and SKILL in using it(and SMARTS in not being stubborn and refusing it just for the sake of refusing it.) . It's not at all like those stupid exploding crates in SSBM.

 

[Micahc]

I don't want it because I'm anal and I don't want the whole battle to turn from one character bashing each other, to two characters bashing a floating sphere.

 

[Cinatas]

I think they might if all the boxes and stuff are removed.
because the way iv seen and heard even when you hit a smash ball it just dashes away from you so even getting to it first dos not mean that your absolutely going to get it

 

[PyroRyuken]

^^ to the post above.
It's not exactaly a free kill, it might KO at a certian low percent, but if you look at the videos the victems don't get insantally KO'ed.




As for me, I'm on the FOR side, and I agree with what Pyroloserkid said.

That, and it won't take any fun out of the game at all. There's SKILL involved in getting the smash ball and SKILL in using it(and SMARTS in not being stubborn and refusing it just for the sake of refusing it.) . It's not at all like those stupid exploding crates in SSBM.

You have a point there. Besides, the smash ball can serve as a distraction. While one of the players chases after the ball you can attack them instead lol.

 

[5150]

-Sigh-

I love how people know nothing about me yet they assume based on my post count.

You can easily make 20 posts within an hour. You just have to explore all areas of SWF and post anywhere that interests you. You don't have to spam it up and have no life to get that many posts.

hey a few things

#1 you post too much
#2 youa re not good
#3 you are not smart

gg

mm?

 

[flyinfilipino]

hey a few things

#1 you post too much
#2 youa re not good
#3 you are not smart

gg

mm?

Why do you even bother?

 

[Wiseguy]

Why is it always all or nothing? Can't we have some tounaments with items, some with only Smashballs and some entirely item free? Surely there is room for compromise...

 

[flyinfilipino]

Why is it always all or nothing? Can't we have some tounaments with items, some with only Smashballs and some entirely item free? Surely there is room for compromise...

Yes, we can. We should just all be patient and see how it plays out in a few months.

 

[RedLink555]

this doesn't seem debatable. of course it would be removed. just like every other item, it is in the item select screen. just like any other item, it randomly appears on screen. just like any other item, it can be used to get the advantage during a fight. just like any other item, you can fight to claim it. just like any other item, it can be taken away.

 

[Pyroloserkid]

hey a few things

#1 you post too much
#2 youa re not good
#3 you are not smart

gg

mm?

Why do you even bother?

Really eh?
I swear, next time I'm reporting.

But yeh, items will probably be in tournaments for the first while. Then after a bit, they'll probably be banned. Not probably, WILL.
But I hope the final smash stays.

 

[5150]

Really eh?
I swear, next time I'm reporting.

But yeh, items will probably be in tournaments for the first while. Then after a bit, they'll probably be banned. Not probably, WILL.
But I hope the final smash stays.

sssssscccccccruuuuuuuuuubbbbbbbbbb

 

[flyinfilipino]

sssssscccccccruuuuuuuuuubbbbbbbbbb

What's the point of trying to call people names? You just make yourself look pathetic.

 

[shadenexus18]

Smash Balls in tourneys? Nuh uh. I don't think so. Atleast, not when money is on the line.

Playing against other combatants in tournaments is suppose to be a battle strictly on skill and skill alone. Not on an item that would give the character who grabbed it a one hit K.O. in a stocked match.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

Smash Balls in tourneys? Nuh uh. I don't think so. Atleast, not when money is on the line.

Playing against other combatants in tournaments is suppose to be a battle strictly on skill and skill alone. Not on an item that would give the character who grabbed it a one hit K.O. in a stocked match.

But... Counter Picking kinda goes against what ya just said... I mean dif character and stage... if it was a test of skill, melee rules would be: Always random stage/1 Character the entire tourney. So... yeh, was just pointing that out. But yeh I do still agree with ya, I dont think my balls should be in tourneys.

FYI...your sig is amazing and it inspired me to make me one.... but not till brawl...well mabey...

 

[shadenexus18]

But... Counter Picking kinda goes against what ya just said... I mean dif character and stage... if it was a test of skill, melee rules would be: Always random stage/1 Character the entire tourney. So... yeh, was just pointing that out. But yeh I do still agree with ya, I dont think my balls should be in tourneys.

FYI...your sig is amazing and it inspired me to make me one.... but not till brawl...well mabey...

True, but I just think that Smash Balls are different. I'd just be a cheap way to win. I mean, some of the FS are really easy to avoid (like Metas) and then there are those that are totally broken (like Peach since you'll go to sleep no matter where you are on the stage).

Oh really? You know, I've been getting that alot lately. Heh, I guess that Pein just pwns plain and simple. Oh and show me the sig when you're done ok. Keep me updated.

 

[Yeroc]

Just offhand, you know you don't go to sleep if you're in the air right?

 

[Icetrash]

I sure hope Smash Balls arent allowed because both ZSS and DK (the two people ill be maining) have suckish FS's. ZSS turns into Samus, which I dont want, and looking at the E4A videos DKs is reallllly bad!

 

[Yeroc]

Yeah, and if you can't use ZSS without Smash balls?

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

All this talk about balls...

Anyway if smash balls are in, im going to tournies naked. Change my name to naked feifer.

 

[Flamesamurai]

I swear this topic makes me angry give me 5 reasons that cannot be countered by me about why smash balls cant be in tournies.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

I swear this topic makes me angry give me 5 reasons that cannot be countered by me about why smash balls cant be in tournies.

"cant be" implies present tense, so I only really need one reason:
1. Super Smash Bros. Brawl isn't currently available for purchase. So not only can we not use smash balls in tournaments, we can't even hold tourneys for it at all.

 

[Icetrash]

Yeah, and if you can't use ZSS without Smash balls?

You create quite the argument. I have nothing to say....

 

[Yeroc]

I really hated bursting your bubble there. I am hoping Ninty gets things right here, and you can play her regardless of item settings, but we have to face that we've not yet been shown that this is possible, and I fear the worst. =\

 

[Pyr0]

Suggestion!

Once Brawl is out, we TEST THEM!

and according to our results we decide the rules for tournaments.