Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[Ijuka]

Okay Yuna, you know what? Fine. You have your security blanket. If anyone ever beats you with a Final Smash like that, they must have been a cheater. In the same fantasy world where I said I knew how to make attacks hit their targets, and where I talked about comboing into things, and all of the other imaginary statements you think I made.

You might want to get some psychiatric help about that. You seem to have anger issues about people coming to different conclusions as you do, or thinking differently than you, or not agreeing that you're 100% right about everything based on two weeks worth of playing a game.

First of all, Crushed, from you, I get the impression that you have played Melee for roughly 4 seconds at your local children's daycare.

You obviously know nothing about the game, or how the tournament play functions, yes it's OBVIOUS. If you don't think it is, tell me how it isn't?

You apparently think that timing will make every crappy move good, right? Warlock punch in Melee will hit an opponent while they are running at you, if you time it so that it hits when they are close. Is that how you think? And there's NO WAY that the opponent is smart enough to SEE the start up and run away?

"There just is an use for it" yes. There might be. When jigglypuff falls asleep for example. But hey...


1. A sure kill on 1 or more opponents, comboable from everything

2. A ****ty laggy slow FS that you're better with without. Lucario's normal moves are better than his FS.

How's it balanced?


And now, Crushed, please comment on the ARGUMENTS, not about some tiny little things like "omg I didnt say exactly that!!!", that doesn't matter AT ALL!

You're just saying that because you know you're beaten, and try to turn the attention away from it, so now... Please, give us an scenario of how you can hit with Lucario's FS? That you've actually tested in Brawl, please. Not just "I think this might work", because with your brain, and especially the lack of it, your thinking won't do any good for any of us.


Also, Yuna has played Melee for years, also has played Brawl.

You have apparently touched Melee once or twice, never been to a tournament, and are aged roughly 4-6 years old. One year here or there.

So who of you has more credit, anyway?


Crushed, please use Lucario's FS against people playing SSBB/SSBM competively, make a scenario where it will actually be useful, and post a video of it, explaining in detail how you made it useful.

Alternatively, go study hard to try to get into elementary school.

*temp ban for flaming*

 

[Jael Irish]

Its kinda a rickroll, i posted the wrong video the other one is titled "You got rick rolled by sonic"

 

[Bibbed]

LOL, Ijuka. Quadruple post? Are you going to try for the quintuple?

 

[Nuvia]

Q-q-q-quadruple Post

 

[Yuna]

3rd/4th largest competitive fighting game community in the United States. Its numbers right under Third Strikes. In most competitive MvC2 matches you will find at least one of the characters in the team being one of the 4 top tiers.

Yes, "in most matches, you will find at least one of the characters from the Top Tier". This means that it's not even a question of most competitive matches having only characters from the Top Tier. Also, the tiers are much closer in MvC2 than Everyone vs. Marth + FS in Brawl. That's just how it is.

While it's a steep uphill battle, Magneto can't just at random pull out a full-life-bar combo on you without you being able to do **** about it by simply tapping an attack and cancel it into a Special Move (or whatever they're called in MvC2).

Well for not I cannot argue with this well since I have not been able to view character specific problems. But if it is true that you can side step, superarmor or airdodge to avoid marth's final smash what is the problem?

Because you cannot sidestep, superarmor or airdodge it when you're getting comboed into it. Marth can easily combo it into with any number of moves. Fair to FS? Anytime!

You know how his "Ken Combo" is so good you can't even airdodge out of Fair -> Fair -> Fair -> Fair? Now just replace one of those Fairs with his Final Smash. Instant KO.

I've seen how powerful Marth's final smash is. I have seen how much better it is in comparison to other characters. I have seen that he is a very good character without a final smash. But I still don't think it has been tested enough to find avoiding strategies and better ways to just stop him from getting the smash ball. Until we know 100%, possibly with a few weeks of tournament results, that he is going to break the game with Smash balls on than its not time to ban.

"Stop him from getting the Smash Ball". Seriously, that's the strategy to prevent Marth from winning over you?

It's a ****ty strategy because you can't possibly do it every single time and he's already among the tops or so without FS. If you're playing anyone who doesn't have an overpowered FS, even if you get it before him, you still won't get much of an edge. All Marth has to do is get the FS just once and there goes one of your stocks, guaranteed, if the Marth is worth his salt.

Q-q-q-quadruple Post

I think Ijuka just tried to quick reply, ran into the new weird error, hit back and quick replied yet again... four times .

For one thing, his quote of Crushed lacks that little button where you can press it to go to the post in question (indicating he might've just copy/pasted a post of Crushed's into the Quick Reply window and then manually typed in the Quotation-brackets).

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

Also, the tiers are much closer in MvC2 than Everyone vs. Marth + FS in Brawl.

I think the FS may be a bit too unbalanced to work in competition. I also think it's too early to call, personally. But eff all that...

MvC2 has close tiers? You mean because about 5-7 characters out of 50-60 are usable and everyone else is garbage? That game has TERRIBLE balance.

 

[Team Giza]

Yes, "in most matches, you will find at least one of the characters from the Top Tier". This means that it's not even a question of most competitive matches having only characters from the Top Tier. Also, the tiers are much closer in MvC2 than Everyone vs. Marth + FS in Brawl. That's just how it is.

While it's a steep uphill battle, Magneto can't just at random pull out a full-life-bar combo on you without you being able to do **** about it by simply tapping an attack and cancel it into a Special Move (or whatever they're called in MvC2).

I've seen Magneto do full life reset combos on characters. But yes most of his good combos can be dizzied out of around 75%.

Because you cannot sidestep, superarmor or airdodge it when you're getting comboed into it. Marth can easily combo it into with any number of moves. Fair to FS? Anytime!

Find ways not to get comboed into it. For him to combo it he needs to approach you and be able to attack you. Depending on how you react it could still be possible for the opponent to avoid his advancement when still not leaving them open to the final smash. And still before that Marth would need to get the smash ball. How good is Marth at breaking the smash ball?

You know how his "Ken Combo" is so good you can't even airdodge out of Fair -> Fair -> Fair -> Fair? Now just replace one of those Fairs with his Final Smash. Instant KO.

That would be very impressive. But broken? I don't know.

"Stop him from getting the Smash Ball". Seriously, that's the strategy to prevent Marth from winning over you?

It's a ****ty strategy because you can't possibly do it every single time and he's already among the tops or so without FS. If you're playing anyone who doesn't have an overpowered FS, even if you get it before him, you still won't get much of an edge. All Marth has to do is get the FS just once and there goes one of your stocks, guaranteed, if the Marth is worth his salt.

Don't play with someone with a ****ty final smash then... unless it is a character would can very easily get the smash ball or keep others away from it. I will test some stuff when I play the game over the weekend.

Are we only discussing 1v1 matches? Or would we ban them from 1v1 and allow them in 2v2s?

 

[Yuna]

I think the FS may be a bit too unbalanced to work in competition. I also think it's too early to call, personally. But eff all that...

MvC2 has close tiers? You mean because about 5-7 characters out of 50-60 are usable and everyone else is garbage? That game has TERRIBLE balance.

56 characters. They aren't all total garbage. They are playable but they'll be quite behind the Top Tiers. The mere fact that not everyone who wins MvC2 tournaments has teams comprised entirely of Top Tiers tells us that you're not forced into playing merely the Top Tiers.

In comparison, it would like how the Top Tiers had Special Arts that won the entire round (100% damage) or if MvC2 doesn't have rounds but you win the match once all 3 lifebars are depleted simply deplete 100% of a health bar with a single hit while the rest only got in 10-40% of damage.

That, and Magneto was also godly without Special Arts.

FS Brawl tournaments would force you to play as an FS Top Tier because they have 1 Hit KO:ers while everyone else (the garbage) does not. Marth would King of Brawl because he's already Godly without FS. With FS, he's pretty much unchallenged. It would devolve into everyone who wants to win playing Marth and only Marth.

And at least the MvC2 top tiers weren't able to win the round using only one single move (just once) which can be comboed into (1 stock = 1 round).

 

[Yuna]

I've seen Magneto do full life reset combos on characters. But yes most of his good combos can be dizzied out of around 75%.

It's also a continous combo. Magneto can't win the round with a single hit.

Find ways not to get comboed into it. For him to combo it he needs to approach you and be able to attack you. Depending on how you react it could still be possible for the opponent to avoid his advancement when still not leaving them open to the final smash. And still before that Marth would need to get the smash ball. How good is Marth at breaking the smash ball?

The only downside to holding a Smash Ball (and you can hold it for as long as you want to) is that you cannot use your neutral B move. Marth's Neutral B is Shieldbreaker, not really a move he uses a lot, especially not in Brawl, anyway.

He can still approach you, pressure you and bait you the same as before. And the minute you slip up, either you end up in the air, roll at the inopportune time, get grabbed or hit, he can combo into his Final Smash.

That would be very impressive. But broken? I don't know.

How hard is it to Fair into FS? I can do it and I don't even play Marth.

Don't play with someone with a ****ty final smash then... unless it is a character would can very easily get the smash ball or keep others away from it. I will test some stuff when I play the game over the weekend.

Characters with Godly FS:es:
3-4

Characters with ****ty FS or just mediocre ones that are ****ty in comparison to the Top FS:ers:
The rest

So you're saying "Play one of the 3-4 if you don't want to get destroyed"? And then, among those 3-4, we will be forced to play Marth if we want to stand a chance because he's Top Tier without the FS and God Tier with it.

They would not be SSBB tournaments anymore, they would Marth Tournaments.

Are we only discussing 1v1 matches? Or could we ban them from 1v1 and allow them in 2v2s?

At all. FS:es that are broken won't become more broken because of Teams. Useless to mediocre ones won't magically become Marth-level because of Teams either.

 

[RoyalRook]

I think FS in team battles would be awesome. Just hear me out for a sec: It would be much easier to knock your opponent's FS out with 2 skilled players.

 

[Brightside6382]

I said (paraphrase) "FS:es will be totally broken in competitive play. I'm not talking about competitive play between you and your brother but between two highly skilled players." whereupon Brightside claimed he was The **** and I was a nobody because "he'd never heard of me".

lol I came back to see how this wrapped up and I was honestly surprised at this. Learn to read simple as that. I never once stated I was "the ****" and you can try as hard as you want to quote me on that. If I sounded this way then it was only because you started acting like a prick first so I threw logic out of the window since you didn't care much for it anyways.

Also I said "I've never heard of you and you've never heard of me" in an attempt at avoiding any more comments on my skill level.

 

[Yuna]

lol I came back to see how this wrapped up and I was honestly surprised at this. Learn to read simple as that. I never once stated I was "the ****" and you can try as hard as you want to quote me on that. If I sounded this way then it was only because you started acting like a prick first so I threw logic out of the window since you didn't care much for it anyways.

You apparently got mad because I dared to insinuate you weren't on, say, Ken's level.

Also I said "I've never heard of you and you've never heard of me" in an attempt at avoiding any more comments on my skill level.

If no one in the competitive Smash scene has ever heard of you:
You probably have never gone to a single tournament and placed anywhere. You're probably not that good... or even knowledgable of the game because at least then you would've posted a few things that would've made people take notice of you.

I think FS in team battles would be awesome. Just hear me out for a sec: It would be much easier to knock your opponent's FS out with 2 skilled players.

If you're playing one out of 4 characters out of the total tally of35.

 

[Bronze]

I really think that its pretty obvious it won't be an item in the competitive scene, because it involves blatant luck. It appears whereever (next to 1 player) whenever (whilst 1 is recovering/dying) and 1 player can hit it 3 times, the other 1 and they get it. As they take whole stocks off at a time the match will be decided mainly by smashballs rather than everything else that matters. E.g. a Marth can be beating a Link 80% to 40% every stock, but if Link gets the smash ball each time then that doesn't matter. Therefore characters with bad final smashes, or those designed for FFA play (all of them) instantly drop down a tier because they can't just remove a stock from their opponent at any time.

 

[Ub3rB3n]

E.g. a Marth can be beating a Link 80% to 40% every stock, but if Link gets the smash ball each time then that doesn't matter. Therefore characters with bad final smashes, or those designed for FFA play (all of them) instantly drop down a tier because they can't just remove a stock from their opponent at any time.

just so you know link is almost always a 1hit ko at 0%, so in that case it would matter

 

[wakka444]

I think the FS has potential of use as a counter-pickable, similar to stages but with what they did with marth would make everyone counterpick marth with FS on but had the FS been better balanced i think counterpicking would have added depth to stage and character selection but they ****ed up that. Thats my 2-cents and im leaving this thread Yuna makes all threads sad

 

[ScythedBlade]

Anyway, super armor frames prevents Marth's FS KO, btw ... and several things ...

And Ken combo doesn't work unless the person JUMPS into Marth ... because in the videos of Brawl, you can clearly see that they use their jump towards the stage and into Marth ... Hence the Olimar vs Marth video ....

I say we stop this argument anyway ... besides, anyone can host their own tournaments ... easily fixed as ... "My tourny will have Smash Ball .. too bad, etc." ...

 

[slimpyman]

i had a tournament with 10 people around here, and we played in mostly prostyle stages, and with only smash balls.... haha i am king at this game, i didnt get 1 smash ball, and i killed everyone. mostly because i used the smash ball as a target i musty defend :-) me and my players agree that here in the midwest chicago region, smash balls are cool for now.

 

[DRaGZ]

Anyway, super armor frames prevents Marth's FS KO, btw ... and several things ...

And Ken combo doesn't work unless the person JUMPS into Marth ... because in the videos of Brawl, you can clearly see that they use their jump towards the stage and into Marth ... Hence the Olimar vs Marth video ....

I say we stop this argument anyway ... besides, anyone can host their own tournaments ... easily fixed as ... "My tourny will have Smash Ball .. too bad, etc." ...

Actually, I have seen videos of the Ken combo working, you just have to use the nair a slight moment later, not at the peak of your jump that is.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Anyway, super armor frames prevents Marth's FS KO, btw ... and several things ...

Super armor frames require you to do an attack, which you can't do if your in hitstun from a previous move (like the one Marth was actually comboing from)

And Ken combo doesn't work unless the person JUMPS into Marth ... because in the videos of Brawl, you can clearly see that they use their jump towards the stage and into Marth ... Hence the Olimar vs Marth video ....

That's because Marth's fair no longer has enough stun to cover it's aerial lag and do the dair. However, Marth's fair has more than enough stun to cover its landing lag and link to a FS

I say we stop this argument anyway ... besides, anyone can host their own tournaments ... easily fixed as ... "My tourny will have Smash Ball .. too bad, etc." ...

Fair enough. Eventually one type of tournament will become the standard of competative tournaments anyway.

 

[SamDvds]

after playing brawl for the last 16 hours straight...i just gotta say that in FFA's or teams..smashballs arent as broken as i thought they would be. u really gotta struggle to activate it and alot of the times it was getting knocked out of the person who had it. also the ones that KO in 1 hit u gotta set up and aim or it can easily miss/be dodged. 1v1's smashballs are broken in every sense of the word, but its fun using them with 4 ppl.

also i somehow survived 2 of marth's FS's. one of them i had just dropped out of the halo and i guess my invincible frames were still up. the other time ws on wind waker link's stage and i bounced off a rock and survived.

 

[Zonic100]

Well I haven't seen any smash balls spawn so close to someone that they were immediately obtained out of pure luck.

So I think it might be possible for smash balls to be in tournies assuming the FSs are just as equally balanced as the characters within the game..