Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[Rx-]

First tourneys are gonna have everything turned on anyway, and then slowly things get banned as they get considered unfair. Smash balls will probably stay the longest in tourneys, and maybe never be banned at all. Or maybe banned in some tourneys but not in others(like wobbling). Just a thought.

 

[Titan05]

Something tells me including the SB in a match would just as fair as adding stars into a match.

 

[LinkGadra]

Something tells me including the SB in a match would just as fair as adding stars into a match.

I wouldn't listen to that if I were you, it has no idea what it's talking about.

Seriously though, it really is too early to make any kind of definitive judgment about Smash Balls and FSs, so if you've got an opinion one way or the other, make sure to post some kind of reasoning along with it.

 

[TheMastermind]

I think the creaters of the smash ball made it the best possible way.
Its not really a game changeing item, it just slightly rewards a person for fighting off the opponent
at the time the smash ball appears.

I personally wouldnt mind it being used in tourneys and I think other players will feel the same way;
as long as other items are turned off.

 

[Shishou]

Part of me feels it should, solely because some characters benefit greatly from their Final Smash while others don't. Which means those with horrible Final Smash techniques may be buffed up in other fighting aspects.

For example Peach's Final Smash looks waaaaay good. While Pit's looks like trash. Even the AI was able to avoid it.


Low setting with nothing but the Smash Ball being allowed to spawn, so no crates or barrels and it may be plausible. But I really doubt it.

 

[Zek]

Upon hearing that Zero Suit Samus gets her suit back again with a final smash, I'm guessing there will be an option to start the round as her. The intention is obviously for them to be different but equal. I'm sure the devs fully understand that people would want that functionality and I don't see any reason they wouldn't include it.

 

[Shishou]

Upon hearing that Zero Suit Samus gets her suit back again with a final smash, I'm guessing there will be an option to start the round as her. The intention is obviously for them to be different but equal. I'm sure the devs fully understand that people would want that functionality and I don't see any reason they wouldn't include it.

Yeah, I thought the same thing and mentally have it confirmed that you can be Zero Suit from the start because of that.

If they are both great characters with completely different counter picks... Imagine the mind games you can pull off. They may choose a character that counter picks Samus, but you will be Zero Suit instead. Vice Versa as well.

Would have been nice to do as well in Melee if Sheik wasn't so good there are little in terms of counter picks and Zelda didn't suck.

 

[OATH]

i don't think so they really do seem unbalanced..lets say u both have 1 stock left..intense fight..samus gets a final smash and practically wins..

 

[flyinfilipino]

Upon hearing that Zero Suit Samus gets her suit back again with a final smash, I'm guessing there will be an option to start the round as her. The intention is obviously for them to be different but equal. I'm sure the devs fully understand that people would want that functionality and I don't see any reason they wouldn't include it.

I disagree, because the way to transform between Samus and ZSS is through a Final Smash, unlike Zelda/Sheik, who transform between each other using one of their own special attacks. I think Zero Suit Samus is just made to be a sort of 'reward' for being able to use Samus's Final Smash. I think Samus/ZSS is supposed to be different from Zelda/Sheik.

 

[BentoBox]

That would imply that ZSS > Samus.

For example Peach's Final Smash looks waaaaay good. While Pit's looks like trash. Even the AI was able to avoid it.

Yes, and you fail to realise that a good Pit player won't just stand there looking at those angels fly. His FS creates an opening; If Pit actually did attack at the same time, which he didn't do in the demo, he'd be unstoppable. Yoshi can't dodge both.

 

[Itakio]

Did anyone notice that the Smash Balls seem to "escape" to the other side of the screen once they got hit? And that they were never really destroyed in one aerial attack?

 

[BentoBox]

 

[error_alt_delete]

Since its required to use the characters strongest move, I can see it in competitive play.

 

[Itakio]

I forget, was it hit before then?

 

[BentoBox]

Samus f-tilted it once before that happened.

 

[Titan05]

I wouldn't listen to that if I were you, it has no idea what it's talking about.

*smacks head* Silence silly voices!
Yeah, the wait and see approach appears never fails to amaze people.



It would be a nice to allow players to start a match
as Zamus, this would allow for competitive players to use her even without the SB, however, the Dojo and none of the demo footage has given me any hope.

 

[uremog]

i at least think that it's be a great feature if zamus could be selected like we do with shiek now.

 

[smasher32]

Here's an interesting idea: what if you could set how much damage is required to activate the smash ball?

eg: noobs could set it to "simply grab" while pros could set it to 30% damage required or something

my $1/50

 

[Anomilus]

I read most of this topic (too long to read the entire thing), and I'm just wondering if anybody has considered the following regarding Peach's Final Smash:

It's possible those put to sleep can mash buttons to wake up much earlier.

I have my doubts that those put to sleep in those videos (including the CPU) actually tried to break out of the sleep. It's possible the CPU no longer can hyper-button mash to wake up super early, and it's also possible that if the player got put to sleep, they simply forgot to attempt to wake up on their own...having just witness the visuals of Peach's FS for the first time.

That's where I think the balance in Peach's FS lies. If she puts only minorly damaged foes to sleep, they may be able to wake up much quicker and snack on the peaches she summoned, thus recovering health as well. In that case, Peach's other option is to take advantage of the temporary sleeping, deal good damage, then quickly consume fruit.

The best option for Peach's FS seems to be to use it when opponents are highly damaged so they have a harder time waking up...or so Peach can try to finish them off completely. Otherwise, a badly timed use of that move could actually help the opponent more than hurt...

Of course, I could be wrong, and Peach's FS sleep effect is harder to break out of.

------

Now as for Bowser's Giga Transformation FS, we've all heard that he is invincible. I guess I'm going out on a limb by asking this, but is this "invincibility" completely confirmed? What I mean is, I'm positive that Giga Bowser can't be budged by any attacks...but is it confirmed that he also takes zero damage as well? If so, that's WAY worse than Melee Giga Bowser in my opinion.

I think the best way to balance his FS is to allow it so he can still take number damage; Basically an "invunerability" as supposed to total invincibility.

Otherwise, I would find Bowser's FS to be the only truly broken FS at this point.

 

[pyrimadines]

I personally think that SBs should be included in tournaments because of the raised action they bring. It takes more than one hit to brea ka smash ball, so in tournament play, if a character hits it oncem then the opposing character should be there to hit it the second time or hit the player away.
This could reduce camping (not too familiar with these words) because if a smash ball gets into the other players hands, I doubt they would be safe for long.
It creates a struggle for the characters to fight their hardest to turn the tables of the match. They players have to hit the smash ball, not get hit by the opponent, not let the opponent hit it last, hit the opponent away and not let the opponent pummel the SB back out of them into the air. (like in skyworld vid. with MK and Bowser)

To make it clearer here: Just because someone gets the SB they have to use it carefully and therefore plan when to use it; but they also have to make sure they don't lose the SB by an opponent attacking them enough (think in the way of Kirby losing his powers- but a certain number of damage dealt).

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Now as for Bowser's Giga Transformation FS, we've all heard that he is invincible. I guess I'm going out on a limb by asking this, but is this "invincibility" completely confirmed? What I mean is, I'm positive that Giga Bowser can't be budged by any attacks...but is it confirmed that he also takes zero damage as well? If so, that's WAY worse than Melee Giga Bowser in my opinion.

I think the best way to balance his FS is to allow it so he can still take number damage; Basically an "invunerability" as supposed to total invincibility.

Otherwise, I would find Bowser's FS to be the only truly broken FS at this point.

I *IS* confirmed he takes damage as Giga Bowser. It was confirmed in the update ¬¬

 

[Symphony X]

I think they should be allowed.


Just thought you might want to know.

 

[mark.]

no


this is what i think.
it could possibly make the game so unpoportional

 

[shadydentist]

I feel like it would severely unbalance the game. Even when items were still allowed in tournaments, powerful items like heart pieces and hammers were taken off. I think the smash ball would fall under the same category.

 

[Zauron]

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RSPe_qlDMU

Samus gets Final Smash capability without ever getting a Smash Ball. How? Apparantly, according to demo players, if you are doing very badly then when you respawn, you will have Final Smash capability already turned on without having to get the item.

Do you realize what this means??

This feature is evidence that Final Smashes ARE considered different than just an item in the coding of the game. The fact that you can get a Final Smash without any item being involved at all shows that they are a much more of a key element of what makes Brawl what it is than just being a powerful item, akin to Supers in SF3. It also shows that there is a chance they cannot be turned off at all, since there's no guarantee that even if you can turn off the items in the items menu that it would turn of Final Smashes themselves being granted to losing players for free.

I'm beginning to think it is quite reasonable that many tournaments will have items turned off but still allow Final Smashes, due to how integral they are to the game's design and due to their effect on character-to-character balance (which no other item really changes significantly, no matter how powerful - other items give nearly equal benefit to any character that gets it, but a Final Smash is unique per character and part of what makes up that character's moveset).

If FS's are turned off, is it really Brawl any more at that point, or just an attempt to recreate Melee?

Important to also consider is the effect Final Smashes would have on tier lists. Banning them could affect character power balance the same as if you banned, say, Side+B moves, where some characters would be largely unaffected but others would be severely hampered. It may be necessary to make 2 tier lists for Brawl, one with and one without Final Smashes, with tournaments that support both modes (again, assuming you can turn them off at all, which this feature casts some small doubt on). At least until the community has a LOT more time to test their impact in the competitive scene.

 

[shadydentist]

I see what you are saying. If it is indeed unable to be turned off, it will not and cannot be banned.

If it is something that is automatically given to aid losing players, it is also not *that* unbalancing.

 

[Mckillyou]

Peaches would **** in 2 on 2.

 

[Zauron]

Peaches would **** in 2 on 2.

Uh, not really. Peach's FS (like most the others) isn't as powerful as it first seems.

1) You can block the sleep effect by just blocking (although it reduces your shield quickly as it attempts to put you to sleep but a full shield can handle it).
2) You can avoid the sleep effect by being out of range.
3) You do not fall asleep if you are in the air.
4) You do not fall asleep if hanging from an edge.
5) You can eat the peaches that spawn yourself if you avoid falling asleep.
6) Even if you do fall asleep, if you are not at high percent you can likely survive one smash attack and then you're awake again. Would you call MewTwo's Down+B all that dangerous even if it does hit?
7) Only one Final Smash can be available at a time, so 2 peaches doesn't mean they can use it twice as often. They would be no more effective than 1 peach when it comes to the power of the FS.
8) The Peach players have to get the Smash Ball, and the other team of 2 is probably also going to go for it and also have nice FS's to use when they get it.

 

[Master Peach]

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RSPe_qlDMU

Samus gets Final Smash capability without ever getting a Smash Ball. How? Apparantly, according to demo players, if you are doing very badly then when you respawn, you will have Final Smash capability already turned on without having to get the item.

Do you realize what this means??

This feature is evidence that Final Smashes ARE considered different than just an item in the coding of the game. The fact that you can get a Final Smash without any item being involved at all shows that they are a much more of a key element of what makes Brawl what it is than just being a powerful item, akin to Supers in SF3. It also shows that there is a chance they cannot be turned off at all, since there's no guarantee that even if you can turn off the items in the items menu that it would turn of Final Smashes themselves being granted to losing players for free.

I'm beginning to think it is quite reasonable that many tournaments will have items turned off but still allow Final Smashes, due to how integral they are to the game's design and due to their effect on character-to-character balance (which no other item really changes significantly, no matter how powerful - other items give nearly equal benefit to any character that gets it, but a Final Smash is unique per character and part of what makes up that character's moveset).

If FS's are turned off, is it really Brawl any more at that point, or just an attempt to recreate Melee?

Important to also consider is the effect Final Smashes would have on tier lists. Banning them could affect character power balance the same as if you banned, say, Side+B moves, where some characters would be largely unaffected but others would be severely hampered. It may be necessary to make 2 tier lists for Brawl, one with and one without Final Smashes, with tournaments that support both modes (again, assuming you can turn them off at all, which this feature casts some small doubt on). At least until the community has a LOT more time to test their impact in the competitive scene.

Nice find, and great Arguement.

 

[Zauron]

Nice find, and great Arguement.

Thanks! Although, I was not the one to first notice it. A demo player pointed it out in another video and another poster found this one as evidence that he was telling the truth. I just thought it was a very interesting insight into just how seriously they are taking Final Smashes as a key component of the game.

 

[Master Peach]

Thanks! Although, I was not the one to first notice it. A demo player pointed it out in another video and another poster found this one as evidence that he was telling the truth. I just thought it was a very interesting insight into just how seriously they are taking Final Smashes as a key component of the game.

Yeah. If Final Smashes weren't important they wouldn't be in the game.
Final Smashes are apart of the character. It's just something that unleashes the characters best move. If Final Smashes were just like the other items, there wouldn't be no point to it. It'd be like picking up the same hammer over and over and over again .

As I've seen and experienced, FS look easy to avoid, Hammers are harder to avoid (Well at least in small stages.)

FS CAN be used in the tourney scene. I just Know it. XD

 

[peachori]

nice find on the final smashes being available without actually getting the ball. although that likely may mean that we can play no items and 7 stock and have both players run off 3 stocks and waste their final smash. that way someone can play zss without having the item turned on.

still, i think smash balls should be used in competitive play, they add strategy and depth which is what everyone keeps clamoring for and the dont seem to be all that random, which is the main thing competitive play tries to minimize. although i guess the MBR will probably get together and have a discussion and vote and such.

 

[Titan05]

Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RSPe_qlDMU

Samus gets Final Smash capability without ever getting a Smash Ball. How? Apparantly, according to demo players, if you are doing very badly then when you respawn, you will have Final Smash capability already turned on without having to get the item.

Do you realize what this means??

This feature is evidence that Final Smashes ARE considered different than just an item in the coding of the game. The fact that you can get a Final Smash without any item being involved at all shows that they are a much more of a key element of what makes Brawl what it is than just being a powerful item, akin to Supers in SF3. It also shows that there is a chance they cannot be turned off at all, since there's no guarantee that even if you can turn off the items in the items menu that it would turn of Final Smashes themselves being granted to losing players for free.

I'm beginning to think it is quite reasonable that many tournaments will have items turned off but still allow Final Smashes, due to how integral they are to the game's design and due to their effect on character-to-character balance (which no other item really changes significantly, no matter how powerful - other items give nearly equal benefit to any character that gets it, but a Final Smash is unique per character and part of what makes up that character's moveset).

If FS's are turned off, is it really Brawl any more at that point, or just an attempt to recreate Melee?

Important to also consider is the effect Final Smashes would have on tier lists. Banning them could affect character power balance the same as if you banned, say, Side+B moves, where some characters would be largely unaffected but others would be severely hampered. It may be necessary to make 2 tier lists for Brawl, one with and one without Final Smashes, with tournaments that support both modes (again, assuming you can turn them off at all, which this feature casts some small doubt on). At least until the community has a LOT more time to test their impact in the competitive scene.

I was about to comment about how this debates never evolve until the game is released but you've proved me wrong. Excellent Find.

I think this feature should have an on/off switch.

 

[GhostAnime]

it's a good argument but if they are still able to be turned off, I still wouldn't allow them in my own personal competitive matches. if they are unable to turn off, then I'd just have to accept it.

 

[Michael Blaine]

Sure. It appears there won't be a professional scene, so pretty much anything should be fair game.

 

[GhostAnime]

what do you mean there won't be a professional scene?

"If Final Smashes were just like the other items, there wouldn't be no point to it. It'd be like picking up the same hammer over and over and over again"

uh... Final Smashes are hammers by that definition, man. you use them over and over only when you're granted to.

 

[FoxMaster77]

NO. They require an item to do so. You have to waste time breaking open a Smash Ball. Plus the Ice Climbers Final Smash turns the whole field into one giant Iceberg. Either ban the Ice Climbers, or ban Final Smashes completely. But we all know that banning Final Smashes completely will be the action taken.

 

[PIT_IS_BACK]

If they ban smash balls, they should ban smash or special attacks too D<

 

[SirroMinus1]

custom melee no barrels creats party ball. just smash ball appear out of no were that sounds good i guess.

 

[Faith]

Smash Ball On Mah Tourney I Dont Think So ~!

Final Destination Fox No Items Only