Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[Samochan]

Can Final Smashes be blocked?

Some can, some cannot. Whereas Samus final smash is almost unavoidable, pit's final smash can be dodged, shielded, clanked or aerial dodged or any other evasion move you want to make to avoid centuries.

 

[Zauron]

Can Final Smashes be blocked?

I can't see why not, but none of the noobs in any of the videos have tried yet .

 

[darkNES386]

Some can, some cannot. Whereas Samus final smash is almost unavoidable, pit's final smash can be dodged, shielded, clanked or aerial dodged or any other evasion move you want to make to avoid centuries.

Thanks, I just noticed that some people seem concerned that these attacks are ultimate moves that are unstopable. The striker goal in Mario Strikers for the gamecube was lame compared to the one in MSC. I don't think nintendo would make a similar "mistake" with any sort of move that could possibly be a part of the game. I have faith in Mr. Sakurai for making this item either something that can be turned off or something better. I'm sure Nintendo is well aware of the competative level this game is demanding and that Mr. Sakurai would want to do all that is possible to make this move a balanced part of the game. You see just about every character do their attack in the original video that was released way back when... I'm pretty sure they've put plenty of though into this.

 

[yoshi_fan]

And do you have anything to prove that the interview is false? >_> He haven't seen either of them in action yet.

http://www.destructoid.com/hands-on-with-super-smash-bros-brawl-48983.phtml

Because that man is a noob u.u

NEW ITEM: FIRE FLOWER omg!

Please, read the entire article. I think he exagerated the 600 (or a bug) and that "instant kill"... i think NOT.

 

[Samochan]

Because that man is a noob u.u

NEW ITEM: FIRE FLOWER omg!

Please, read the entire article. I think he exagerated the 600 (or a bug) and that "instant kill"... i think NOT.

"There's also a few other things like Bob-ombs, Fire Flower, Poison Flower and a few other things that were in the demo too that were from past Smashes."

Lol. >_>

And I'm well aware that 600% is exaggerating it, but he uses such a big number to describe how powerful pika's final smash actually is. And Final Smash can be an instant KO if you hit with is, Link's final smash could very well be as well. And everyone ths far that have played brawl are noobs, lol.

 

[Adi]

Chances are it probably won't, not only for it's own flaws but simply because of tradition.

From a personal standpoint I wouldn't want it simply because even if there is skill in getting it, people who have stronger aerial positions will have the greatest chance of recieving the final smash and it would also take away from a match in the sense that every X seconds the smash ball would come down and everyone would focus on that instead of the opponent.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I would probably turn off all items except smash ball and turn the switch for item frequency to very low

 

[fr0st2k]

Everyone stop! You're arguing over a futile and fruitless point.

The question is this, and this alone:

Is the 3+ seconds it takes to break it open a SmashBall (considering it spawns on top of you), enough time for the person furthest away from the smash ball to make a sufficient counter-attack in order to turn the tides and get the smash ball themselves.

And

Is it enough for each and every character?

We cant answer that now, so we'll have to wait until the game is released to test it out.

no further discussion is necessary

 

[WoapGang]

"There's also a few other things like Bob-ombs, Fire Flower, Poison Flower and a few other things that were in the demo too that were from past Smashes."

Lol. >_>

And I'm well aware that 600% is exaggerating it, but he uses such a big number to describe how powerful pika's final smash actually is. And Final Smash can be an instant KO if you hit with is, Link's final smash could very well be as well. And everyone ths far that have played brawl are noobs, lol.

Link Final Smash:
"And then comes the finishing strike! SKRAAAAH!

If you suffer this fate, there is little hope for you. But remember: damage alone will not finish you in Smash.

If you’re lucky enough to strike solid ground, you just might be saved."-Sakurai

PWNED!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[slisenberg]

Tournaments aren't "Real" Smash. They're "Arena" Smash. Arena fights have restrictive rules and real fights don't. Compare it to the difference between IRL Wars and IRL Boxing matches. In War you can have nukes, cruise missiles, knives, swords, guns, and all sorts of things that technically DO require some strategic or tactical skill to use effectively... but in Boxing matches you only have your two gloved fists.


....Oh, and before some idiot says "lol u kent compar smash 2 RL!"...
IDIOT! I'm barely talking about Smash at all! This is a post on human nature and how it tends to work, particularly when it comes to competitive matches like tournament smash. Whether or not you can use nukes in Smash or turn SSJ in real life is completely beside the point of the post.

Regardless of whether or not you're describing human nature, you lost all credibility with me the second you compared a nintendo character fighting game to nuclear war.

 

[red stone]

smash ball is an item. we ban other items, we are banning this one. no exceptions.

we want consistent results at tourneys. we want the best to stay the best until someone with true better skill comes along.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Smash Balls are very common, more so than hammers, and involve just as much luck as all the other items. Also, they are really powerful, and are thus imbalanced. So no, no smash balls in tourney play.

smash ball is an item. we ban other items, we are banning this one. no exceptions.

we want consistent results at tourneys. we want the best to stay the best until someone with true better skill comes along.

...Have you even SKIMMED over this thread at all?

Go back and read a couple pages, like Zauron's posts, and try again.

 

[Crispy4001]

I've got a riddle for you guys...


The game spits out 4 smash balls for a match. One player gets and uses 3 of them, the other picks up and uses 1 of them.

How is this handicap distributed? By luck or by skill?

 

[Mama]

I've got a riddle for you guys...


The game spits out 4 smash balls for a match. One player gets and uses 3 of them, the other picks up and uses 1 of them.

How is this handicap distributed? By luck or by skill?

If you mean all at once? Thats impossible. Nobody would just sit around while someone gets a Smash Ball uses it goes for another etc. If you mean at separate times then I doubt a match would be long enough for that many to appear.

I agree with Zauron. Let the tournaments experiment with them. See how they operate first before they make a decision on them. Other fighting games have special moves in some way shape or form I say give the Smash Ball a chance. Have an open mind and leave your preconceived notions at the door please.

 

[yoshi_fan]

"There's also a few other things like Bob-ombs, Fire Flower, Poison Flower and a few other things that were in the demo too that were from past Smashes."

Lol. >_>

And I'm well aware that 600% is exaggerating it, but he uses such a big number to describe how powerful pika's final smash actually is. And Final Smash can be an instant KO if you hit with is, Link's final smash could very well be as well. And everyone ths far that have played brawl are noobs, lol.

Ok i missed the point, look now

 

[Crispy4001]

If you mean all at once? Thats impossible. Nobody would just sit around while someone gets a Smash Ball uses it goes for another etc. If you mean at separate times then I doubt a match would be long enough for that many to appear.

No, throughout the match. For a 3-5 stock match (instead of a 2-minute timed one), it'd definately be possible to have 4 smash balls appear. Mind giving it another shot?


Also, about the talk, I think final judgement will need to be reserved until the game comes out. But there's no reason why we can't logically think things through and make estimations about what problems could arise in Brawl tournaments.

 

[Mama]

No, throughout the match. For a 3-5 stock match (instead of a 2-minute timed one), it'd definately be possible to have 4 smash balls appear. Mind giving it another shot?


Also, about the talk, I think final judgement will need to be reserved until the game comes out. But there's no reason why we can't logically think things through and make estimations about what problems could arise in Brawl tournaments.

Mind reading my entire post? We don't know how easy it would be for a player to get a Smash Ball multiple times. For all we know there could be a setting to change it or the Ball could have a tendency to appear farther away from the player that had it last. Its too early to judge and estimations are always clouded by a biased point of view based off of other items.

As I said before we wont be able to make a decision until the game is released. Don't start playing scenarios in your head now because you'll wind up steering yourself into a set point of view and then work with any evidence until it fits your preconceived conclusion. Time tells all. Enough said.

 

[fr0st2k]

Mind reading my entire post? We don't know how easy it would be for a player to get a Smash Ball multiple times. For all we know there could be a setting to change it or the Ball could have a tendency to appear farther away from the player that had it last. Its too early to judge and estimations are always clouded by a biased point of view based off of other items.

As I said before we wont be able to make a decision until the game is released. Don't start playing scenarios in your head now because you'll wind up steering yourself into a set point of view and then work with any evidence until it fits your preconceived conclusion. Time tells all. Enough said.

NO NO NO! There is no setting to spawn it away from players. I know this due to being a programmer. There are too many calculations involved and its redundant and there is no way they would do this.

The question is still whether or not the 3+ seconds it takes to open a smash ball is enough time for the person furthest away to mount a counter-attack and obtain it for themselves.

Thats the question!!!!

 

[yoshi_fan]

NO NO NO! There is no setting to spawn it away from players. I know this due to being a programmer. There are too many calculations involved and its redundant and there is no way they would do this.

The question is still whether or not the 3+ seconds it takes to open a smash ball is enough time for the person furthest away to mount a counter-attack and obtain it for themselves.

Thats the question!!!!

2 months delay... maybe?

I think the ones saying FS = item so NO are ********, seriously

 

[Mama]

NO NO NO! There is no setting to spawn it away from players. I know this due to being a programmer. There are too many calculations involved and its redundant and there is no way they would do this.

The question is still whether or not the 3+ seconds it takes to open a smash ball is enough time for the person furthest away to mount a counter-attack and obtain it for themselves.

Thats the question!!!!

>.> everyone in threads like this seem to claim that they're programmers lol.

I'm not saying there was just saying that there could be. And who are you to judge what they can and cannot do? A spawn code coupled with a code that generates a coordinate at random that the target is not occupying is an easy shortcut, but as you said thats not the question.

Its not time that opens a Smash Ball its damage. Many things play a factor in beating someone to the punch and its highly unlikely that someone would be able to do so 3 out of 4 times.

If you still want to do it in a technical manner upping the resistance of the Smash Ball would also be an easy fix for your scenario but characters with high knock back moves would then have the advantage as they could easily get someone off of it in time.

Bottom line is there are far too many variables to even consider right now. Too many unknowns. You shouldn't try to create problems or scenarios that may not even exist.

 

[Doggalina]

Oh, to end the "Smash Balls might not even be items" thing going on, watch some videos. In one where Nate is showing somebody the game, a Smash Ball comes out of a capsule.

 

[BentoBox]

...Have you even SKIMMED over this thread at all?

Go back and read a couple pages, like Zauron's posts, and try again.

Nobody's going to skim through 23pages before posting.

They should modify the Bonus mode and make it so each extra bonus fills up a gauge which ultimately grants you access to FS.

 

[GhostAnime]

yeah. I saw it come out of a capsule. that settles it for me.

 

[Zauron]

NO NO NO! There is no setting to spawn it away from players. I know this due to being a programmer. There are too many calculations involved and its redundant and there is no way they would do this.

Untrue. I could do it. Easily. I am not just a programmer, I am a video game programmer. That's been my JOB for several years. And yes, there are calculations involved, but it would take only a day or two to put in code to make it prefer to spawn near and move toward the player(s) that hadn't recently got a Smash Orb.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

Smash Balls:
unknown spawn time, unknown movement patterns, unknown amount of dmg to obtain,can they be gained by projectiles?, unknown variables to knock it from someone. none of these variables are final reguardless right now.

Final Smashes:
unknown invinciblity, unknown framehit/duration/recovery, unknown blockablity, unknown usefulness combined with characters "standard" attacks/combos/movement. none of which is final right now either.

there is a random factor to final smashes, as we understand it now currently, because we dont know spawn or movement patterns.

there is a good amount of randomness in other competative fighting games. some of it negative, some of it good, even some of it is indiferent.

either or, human ability factors in. a person playing solid will accept their current situation and do the bes t they possibly can.

my personal opinion:

the FS'es ive seen dont look over powered, samus can combo into charge shot, and she gets one free if she kos you (or just about ,depending on position/character speed) its a great move, she can do it quickly and effectively whenver she choses after charging it. if you look at the "data" we have right now, even if samus FS wasent blockable, i personally think full charge shot is better. better recovery, less lag, harder to avoid, comboable, retained reguardless of dmg or knockback. (negatively though, i doubt her FS is reflectable)

like supers, all it does is reward the person who has it more than if they didnt have it, if it means brokeness it means brokeness.

its not entirely luck. a smash ball is like the start of a basketball game. not a coinflip like a football game. how is the top position in olympic wrestling decided? or the team that bats first?(just curious)

yes you both start in the same positions with a tip off, but all of the rest of the factors are up to the players.

ending statement:
we dont know enough about them yet. much like the entire game. a character or combo might be ban worthy in some peoples opinion when the game comes out. should infinites be banned? should broken attacks be banned? variables we dont know, and shouldent assume. if it makes the game more competative and fun, im all for it. but luck dosent mean the end of the world. all games arent non-speed chess.

sorry if i get anyone mad, ima go eat now, later

 

[Spellman]

Lucky people deserve to win too.

 

[BentoBox]

"Different final smashes have different effects. I mean some of the are gonna automatically just rain absolute terror down on everyone, others you actually have to do stuff; that particular one I had I had to get lined up on the side of the screen, make sure that he was going to be on my horizontal path and then unleash it."

 

[slartibartfast42]

All you people saying that you'll have to jump to it and break it before you get to use it and that means both people have equal opportunity, no. If you just knocked someone away, then the smash ball appears near you, you have it. I'm sure good players will find ways to break it almost instantly. Fox could double shine (I don't know if there's an official name, it's when you shine, jump cancel it, shine, 2 in the same spot only 1-2 frames apart). Peach can float after it and attack it multiple times quickly, then suddenly that 120% damage peach is at zero and you just got trapped in a downsmash while asleep and are now dead. Captain Falcon can probably break it with a single knee. I could go on, and you could claim that these moves won't be in brawl, but there will be ways found for characters to break the smash ball very fast, and whoever is closer will get it, which makes it completely random chance. I don't see how this item is any different than all the items that were banned last time. I think that the smash balls are definitely going to be banned, and I am glad.

 

[Mic_128]

All you people saying that you'll have to jump to it and break it before you get to use it and that means both people have equal opportunity, no. If you just knocked someone away, then the smash ball appears near you, you have it. I'm sure good players will find ways to break it almost instantly. Fox could double shine (I don't know if there's an official name, it's when you shine, jump cancel it, shine, 2 in the same spot only 1-2 frames apart). Peach can float after it and attack it multiple times quickly, then suddenly that 120% damage peach is at zero and you just got trapped in a downsmash while asleep and are now dead. Captain Falcon can probably break it with a single knee. .

If you watch the videos you see that you need to hit it multiple times, doing way more damage than 2 shines worth. Don't exagerate.

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that, hey, knock someone away, wail on the Smash Ball, then- oh snaps- your opponent decks you before you get it open, or even after you've gotten it and you drop it.

 

[Hoboman725]

That's not the only reason they're banned. >_>
The Smash Ball looks kind of unbalanced to me. You get some good attacks like Samus's laser and some pretty lame ones like Sonic's super saiyan thingie.

Edit: Oh dear... team attack on...

oh man, are you kidding me?!

samus is a sitting duck, versus sonic turning yellow, glowy invincible, extra fast, and does great damage on contact!

 

[Rex+]

oh man, are you kidding me?!

samus is a sitting duck, versus sonic turning yellow, glowy invincible, extra fast, and does great damage on contact!

True. In the Samus/Mario video, Samus's Final Smash only deals about 40%. Then, a computer-controlled Sonic uses his Final Smash and starts beating the living daylights out of Link. Enough to KO him.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

oh man, are you kidding me?!

samus is a sitting duck, versus sonic turning yellow, glowy invincible, extra fast, and does great damage on contact!

sonic looks as if he moved the same in the old gen games as super sonic. where at full speed it was ******** to stop your inertia and turn around. i think it will be used at the "end" of combos for 1 or 2 hits if used perfectly. not to mention the amount of air control you have. unless they change something, i doubt super sonic will be anything but setups due to his manuverability. then again, it might be perfect for eging people after knocking them off. but that would also mean bad control + off screen moving. so i dunno.

mic128: yeah not only that, but it has its own physics. attacks knock it around and move it (some did.. some didnt) maybe a hard attack that didnt break it might just let it drift away.
but whatever, apprasial of moves isent as easy as just seeing it hit/done. there are too many properties and variables untested.

 

[Metal B]

I really think Ultra-Smashs have to be legal, because they are balance and they give the game a new tactic.

Why are they legal?
What we know the Smash-Balls appier random, but they are flying random around the Stage. Even if they are next to you, they could fly in a way you cant reach them. And even than you have to break them first. So it take a lot of time to just get the Smash-Ball, the time your opponet could use. The point of the Smash-Balls are not luck, the point is greed (like the Items). Too much greed and your opponet could simply beat your ***, while you hunting the Smash-Ball. Your becoming a easy target.

Also even getting the Smash-Ball means nothing. The Ultra-Smash have some Pro and Neg.

For Example:

• Some are really hard to controll, that means you can die easylie or your opponent could simply dodge your attacks. Like Sonic's, Pikachu's., etc.
  
• For same you have to be at the right place, like next to your opponent and catch him. When you dont get him ... nothing happens. Like Link's, Ike', Meta Knight's.
  
• You get healing, but even than if you dont need them, Kirby's, Peach's (i also think, that attacking a opponent while Peach's Ultra-Smash, while stop it directly.)
  
• You have to be in right place and shot it in the right moment ... and even than, your opponents could dogge them. Like Mario's, Red's, Samus's.
  
• You are stonger and bigger ... but also could a mistake kills you, your opponents can dodge, trick and attack you. Like Bowser's, Fox's.
  
• You have to play a minigame, win it and even then, your opponet could dodge you. Like DK's.

etc.

You see there is always a possibily too survive a ultra-smash and than its really bad, becauce you can use a ultra-smash just ONCE in a match! That means as long as someone not uses his Ultra-Smash there will be Smash-Balls. Fair for everbody. Also this means, fail by use them ... there is no second chance. And if you already use your Ultra-Smash, you can always be there to break the Smash-Ball that your opponets dont get them.
But it doesn't stop here! If your opponet gets a Smash-Ball, its not over. Your Enemey have to go into place and use them. In this time you can hit the Smash-Ball out of him. Then the fight for the Ball begins one more time. I also think there is a lag between pressing the B Button and the start of the attack. A time where you are a easy target. Its like in Mario Smash Football for Wii.
There is always a chance! If you know what to do!

The tactic and skill begins by:

• How to get a Smash-Ball right.
• Counter your Opponet, while he is hunting the Smash-Ball.
• How to get into place to use the Ultra-Smash right (for every character and stage).
• How to steal a Ultra-Smash.
• How to use the Ultra-Smash right (for every character and stage).
• How to dodge a Ultra-Smash (for every character and stage).
• Where is the right time to use my Ultra-Smash (using Peach's or Kirby's Ultra-Smash by having 0% isnt really clever ...).

etc.

Ultra-Smashs would change a lot of the gameplay!!!

Against the Heal-Ultra-Smash ... you have to get the Ball, you have to use the Ultra-Smash and you have to use them in the right time. The Heal-Ultra-Smash are the only ones that really need luck ...

 

[Crispy4001]

EDIT: Not to mention the fact that, hey, knock someone away, wail on the Smash Ball, then- oh snaps- your opponent decks you before you get it open, or even after you've gotten it and you drop it.

That all depends on how far you knock them away.


Worst case senario would be knocking your opponent out of their recovery range, or cuing a death animation that takes time such as a star finish. Then you'd have a few good seconds completely uncontested to bash open the ball.

Couple that with the reduced invulerability period when you respawn, and you could hit them with a Final Smash at low percents. A character like Meta Knight, who's Final Smash is an instantainous KO, could shave off a second stock in a hearbeat after they respawn.


Also, DK took more than 40% damage (including being hit by a Smash Attack) and still didn't drop the ball. Could just be because he's a heavier character, but still, you can't count on getting in a couple good hits on them before they let it loose.

(Bozon [IGN] talks about Meta Knight's FS)
http://boards.ign.com/super_smash_bros_/b5213/152089486/p1/?6

 

[BentoBox]

• Some are really hard to controll, that means you can die easylie or your opponent could simply dodge your attacks. Like Sonic's, Pikachu's., etc.
  
• For same you have to be at the right place, like next to your opponent and catch him. When you dont get him ... nothing happens. Like Link's, Ike', Meta Knight's.
  
• You get healing, but even than if you dont need them, Kirby's, Peach's (i also think, that attacking a opponent while Peach's Ultra-Smash, while stop it directly.)
  
• You have to be in right place and shot it in the right moment ... and even than, your opponents could dogge them. Like Mario's, Red's, Samus's.
  
• You are stonger and bigger ... but also could a mistake kills you, your opponents can dodge, trick and attack you. Like Bowser's, Fox's.
  
• You have to play a minigame, win it and even then, your opponet could dodge you. Like DK's.

etc.

Orr, it could be one of those where it is impossible to defend yourself from both the FS and your opponent's attack. Take Pit's for example.

"Different final smashes have different effects. I mean some of the are gonna automatically just rain absolute terror down on everyone, others you actually have to do stuff; that particular one I had I had to get lined up on the side of the screen, make sure that he was going to be on my horizontal path and then unleash it."

I pretty much stopped taking you seriously after the first sentence... "they are balance"

 

[Metal B]

Orr, it could be one of those where it is impossible to defend yourself from both the FS and your opponent's attack. Take Pit's for example.

"Different final smashes have different effects. I mean some of the are gonna automatically just rain absolute terror down on everyone, others you actually have to do stuff; that particular one I had I had to get lined up on the side of the screen, make sure that he was going to be on my horizontal path and then unleash it."

I pretty much stopped taking you seriously after the first sentence... "they are balance"

Come on ... They just overact by pit's final smash =)
Or looks this like a TERROR RAIN?

 

[BentoBox]

When in a 1v1, -all- the angels will be targetting you. And pit will too. And who knows if he was talking about Pit's specifically? There might be more characters with AoE FSes~

But anyways, I don't even know why I care anymore.

 

[Crispy4001]

I really think Ultra-Smashs have to be legal, because they are balance and they give the game a new tactic.

Why are they legal?
What we know the Smash-Balls appier random, but they are flying random around the Stage. Even if they are next to you, they could fly in a way you cant reach them. And even than you have to break them first. So it take a lot of time to just get the Smash-Ball, the time your opponet could use. The point of the Smash-Balls are not luck, the point is greed (like the Items). Too much greed and your opponet could simply beat your ***, while you hunting the Smash-Ball. Your becoming a easy target.

Also even getting the Smash-Ball means nothing. The Ultra-Smash have some Pro and Neg.

For Example:

• Some are really hard to controll, that means you can die easylie or your opponent could simply dodge your attacks. Like Sonic's, Pikachu's., etc.
  
• For same you have to be at the right place, like next to your opponent and catch him. When you dont get him ... nothing happens. Like Link's, Ike', Meta Knight's.
  
• You get healing, but even than if you dont need them, Kirby's, Peach's (i also think, that attacking a opponent while Peach's Ultra-Smash, while stop it directly.)
  
• You have to be in right place and shot it in the right moment ... and even than, your opponents could dogge them. Like Mario's, Red's, Samus's.
  
• You are stonger and bigger ... but also could a mistake kills you, your opponents can dodge, trick and attack you. Like Bowser's, Fox's.
  
• You have to play a minigame, win it and even then, your opponet could dodge you. Like DK's.

etc.

You see there is always a possibily too survive a ultra-smash and than its really bad, becauce you can use a ultra-smash just ONCE in a match! That means as long as someone not uses his Ultra-Smash there will be Smash-Balls. Fair for everbody. Also this means, fail by use them ... there is no second chance. And if you already use your Ultra-Smash, you can always be there to break the Smash-Ball that your opponets dont get them.
But it doesn't stop here! If your opponet gets a Smash-Ball, its not over. Your Enemey have to go into place and use them. In this time you can hit the Smash-Ball out of him. Then the fight for the Ball begins one more time. I also think there is a lag between pressing the B Button and the start of the attack. A time where you are a easy target. Its like in Mario Smash Football for Wii.
There is always a chance! If you know what to do!

The tactic and skill begins by:

• How to get a Smash-Ball right.
• Counter your Opponet, while he is hunting the Smash-Ball.
• How to get into place to use the Ultra-Smash right (for every character and stage).
• How to steal a Ultra-Smash.
• How to use the Ultra-Smash right (for every character and stage).
• How to dodge a Ultra-Smash (for every character and stage).
• Where is the right time to use my Ultra-Smash (using Peach's or Kirby's Ultra-Smash by having 0% isnt really clever ...).

etc.

Ultra-Smashs would change a lot of the gameplay!!!

Against the Heal-Ultra-Smash ... you have to get the Ball, you have to use the Ultra-Smash and you have to use them in the right time. The Heal-Ultra-Smash are the only ones that really need luck ...

None of which matters if the moves are overpowered. You're telling me that Meta-Knight's One hit instantaneous KO (according to IGN's Bozon) should be considered a legit? Yoshi's 10 seconds of invulnerability and flight?

Yes, these moves take strategy to use correctly (which quite frankly I think a lot of you are blowing way out of proportion). But when it all comes down to it, tournament play is about who the better fighter is, not taking indirect shortcuts around your opponent to land an undeserving kill or quick 50+ percent.

The point is, if Smash balls are allowed in tournament matches you can bet a lot of matches will come down to the Smash ball. Just because it's possible to dodge a final smash doesn't mean they won't become a match deciding factor, especially with two evenly matched players.

This means the player who might have otherwise won in a balanced match now can lose because the game itself, not the other player, threw a curve ball. That is not something competitive players should need to be concerned with.

 

[Metal B]

When in a 1v1, -all- the angels will be targetting you. And pit will too. And who knows if he was talking about Pit's specifically? There might be more characters with AoE FSes~

For me they looking complete random, like the Unknows in Melee, only that you can attack, shield, dodge them and there are not so many in one direction. The point of the balance are not only the Ultra-Smashs them self, its also how to get the Smash-Ball, stop your opponet to get them and steal them form your enemy, etc. ... there some important non-luck steps even before using the ultra-smashs.

None of which matters if the moves are overpowered. You're telling me that Meta-Knight's One hit instantaneous KO (according to IGN's Bozon) should be considered a legit?

I read something about it too. Meta-Knight got an instance Kill ... but only if he gets you! You can dodge him!

The point is, if Smash balls are allowed in tourny matches you can bet a lot of matches will come down to the Smash ball. Just because it's possible to dodge a final smash doesn't mean they won't become a match deciding factor, especially with two evenly matched players.

You can use a Ultra-Smash just ONCE in a Match. A Match will not only all about getting a ultra-smash, it will a part of it. You could loss one of your stocks, not all, and even than you also can use your Ultra-Smash. When you make a mistake by using yours, its your fail. If you cant get the smash-ball becauce of your oppponet, its his skill.

 

[Mic_128]

That all depends on how far you knock them away.


Worst case senario would be knocking your opponent out of their recovery range, or cuing a death animation that takes time such as a star finish. Then you'd have a few good seconds completely uncontested to bash open the ball.

No different to Samus getting a free charge.

Couple that with the reduced invulerability period when you respawn, and you could hit them with a Final Smash at low percents.

Posible, but assuming the respawn change stays in the final code, ther's no reason why you can't avoid the aiming by jumping off the platform.

A character like Meta Knight, who's Final Smash is an instantainous KO, could shave off a second stock in a hearbeat after they respawn.

Lets see how real smash players deal with that one on the 18th. Instant kill, I doubt it.

Also, DK took more than 40% damage (including being hit by a Smash Attack) and still didn't drop the ball. Could just be because he's a heavier character, but still, you can't count on getting in a couple good hits on them before they let it loose.

That could vary from character to character. And no reason why you can't combo/grab someone who's picked it up.