Will we have Smash Ball activated as an item in the pro/competitive scene?

[Randall00]

Why is their so much hatred for luck in this? Honestly. You don't see professional competitive Pokemon players trying to get critical hits removed.

Professional Pokémon players don't tour around the country essentially gambling hundreds of dollars on their inherent skill.

 

[GhostAnime]

Samus FSing Fox is part of Samus' player skill, after all

no it's not. it's a mix of both luck and skill.

causing 40% damage with your own character's physics is more skillful. this is just undeniable.

 

[twitch]

i would shut it off in tournament play!! to much lucke.. in my eyes..

 

[Kashakunaki]

So, how much is it actually going to take to drop a Smash Ball?

That attack has next to no knockback, so I figure "knocking" a Smash ball out of someone is more relative to knockback rather than damage.

 

[Crispy4001]

That attack has next to no knockback, so I figure "knocking" a Smash ball out of someone is more relative to knockback rather than damage.

Sonic uses a Forward-A Smash attack after Metaknights - that should have plenty of knockback. He still doesn't lose the ball (well, he does eventually, from a suicide).

 

[Kashakunaki]

I'm just throwing something out there. Maybe because he is bigger it is harder to knock out of him? I remember watching another Match where the Smashball is knocked out of Ike, I believe, relatively easily. We just have to wait and test it.

That's what a lot of people seem to be overlooking. Go ahead and speculate, but it really doesn't matter. Items were allowed in Melee tournaments for years as well as currently banned stages. They even had free for all tournaments! We won't be sure about anything until we have thoroughly experimented and you shouldn't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone and do it.

Try to drop the ideal of, "This is the way the Melee tournament scene is now, so this must be how the Brawl tournament scene should be."

 

[Zauron]

Sonic uses a Forward-A Smash attack after Metaknights - that should have plenty of knockback. He still doesn't lose the ball (well, he does eventually, from a suicide).

Perhaps this is another balancing factor - maybe heavier/slow characters can hold on to the power easier than light/fast characters.

 

[Gum]

Im pretty sure they would be banned. But of course, Sakurai could be sneaky and make smash balls NOT an item and just a part of the game in general. That aside, I think they will be banned. Not only is there a lot of luck involved in where it appears during a battle, and the fact that some characters will have better SS's than others, you also have to take into account the fact that some characters can ****ING FLY. Its highly imbalanced when the s-ball floats super high, so that poor Mario is left jumping up and down trying to hit it to no avail, while Pit simply uses like 3 of his 10 trillion jumps to reach the top of the level and take it. Tourneys are mormally left to each player's tactical skill, their connection with the characters they use and their knowledge of the game. I'd be highly pissed if I lost a 4-stock match in a tourney because it just so happened that the s-ball appeared no where near me every single time. At the same time though, that may never happen. Im not saying Im opposed to s-balls in tourneys, but I don't think its likely.

 

[Makkers]

Perhaps this is another balancing factor - maybe heavier/slow characters can hold on to the power easier than light/fast characters.

Which should make sense, similar to how it's harder to get a 300 pound man to fumble a football over a 150 pounder. As a result, this makes for a nice incentive to play heavy characters.

Offtopic, why is this issue still being debated? It was already revealed that everything will be tested before anything gets banned. Any debate involving the use of Smash Balls can be settled when the game is released.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Gum... did you even read anything in the thread?

Me = Agrees with Makkers

People still like to put out their opinions, though.

 

[Zauron]

Try to drop the ideal of, "This is the way the Melee tournament scene is now, so this must be how the Brawl tournament scene should be."

This is exactly the problem I think people are having. They want this to be just like Melee, and using Melee's mechanics as a basis for what Brawl should be like.

Brawl is a different game. It appears to have beefed up offensive abilities with things like Final Smashes, more options for spiking people (footstool jump), and better comboing (extended hit stun on multi-hit attacks). However, it has balanced it with better defenses - faster dodge rolls, automatic sweet-spotting of ledges, homing tether recoveries, jumping after air-dodges, and so on. Remove Final Smashes and you remove part of the formula that forms the basis for THIS game.

While it may not feel like it because it wasn't in Melee, Final Smashes are a core part of Brawl. It was the first major change shown. Removing it is removing what makes the game Brawl and not Melee v1.5.

Look at it another way. Would you ban all items from Mario Kart? I'm sure some would like to, but ask yourself - would it still be Mario Kart? Or would it just be another generic racer? What about removing those Final Smash-like goal kicks in Mario Strikers Charged? Is it still the same game without them? Can you say that this player is better than that player at Mario Strikers Charged without seeing how the players would make use of those goal kicks? It seems all you'd be showing is if one player is more skilled than the other at some other soccer game, because Strikers has those goal kicks.

And Brawl is built around Final Smashes, as evidenced by how much the Nintendo reps and Sakurai are making a big deal about them.

Yeah, it sucks that there's that random factor involved, and frankly I'm dissapointed there isn't an option to have it act more like other fighting games where the ability to use the FS was based on damage taken or kills gained or something more predictable. But this is what makes Brawl what it is. We can't remove the random factors entirely - they are built into the stages and the characters. Are we willing to completely eliminate a core feature of a game, something that makes it what it is? Can you honestly say this player is better than that player at Brawl, when niether has access to a core component, when it is highly possible that one of the players is very good at making effective use of their Final Smash, or even better, taking advantage through mind games of the other player's Final Smash to kill them while they are trying to get it, or are in the middle of using it (as someone else said, a roll-dodge through Samus and now you have all the time in the world to use a devestating Smash attack to finish her while she's stuck in that shot animation)?

As another poster said, once they are banned its probably never going to be unbanned. It could be a huge loss to the Smash tourney community to eliminate something that has potential to add a lot to the mindgames of tournament play based on information from a different game. We really should give it a chance and make 100% sure we don't like it, based on THIS game and what THIS game's balancing is like, before we throw it away.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Smash Balls are very common, more so than hammers, and involve just as much luck as all the other items. Also, they are really powerful, and are thus imbalanced. So no, no smash balls in tourney play.

 

[Makkers]

Smash Balls are very common, more so than hammers, and involve just as much luck as all the other items. Also, they are really powerful, and are thus imbalanced. So no, no smash balls in tourney play.

Judging how common Smash Balls are in a 2 minute demo = Bad Idea.

I don't know about you but don't you think that maybe, just maybe, Nintendo upped the spawn time on Smash Balls so that the people who played the game can have a better idea on how they work?

 

[Crispy4001]

disregard, can't delete

 

[Zauron]

Also, they are really powerful, and are thus imbalanced. So no, no smash balls in tourney play.

That's a very short sighted point of view. What if I told the SF3 community that because Supers are really powerful and hard to avoid, they are thus imbalanced, and should not be allowed in tourney play? FS's are just as much a core part of what makes Brawl what it is as Supers are a part of Street Fighter 3.

 

[Crispy4001]

disregard this, can't delete

 

[Crispy4001]

I'm just throwing something out there. Maybe because he is bigger it is harder to knock out of him? I remember watching another Match where the Smashball is knocked out of Ike, I believe, relatively easily. We just have to wait and test it.

That's what a lot of people seem to be overlooking. Go ahead and speculate, but it really doesn't matter. Items were allowed in Melee tournaments for years as well as currently banned stages. They even had free for all tournaments! We won't be sure about anything until we have thoroughly experimented and you shouldn't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone and do it.

Try to drop the ideal of, "This is the way the Melee tournament scene is now, so this must be how the Brawl tournament scene should be."

I'm not going by tournament precedent. I'm just going by how Smash Balls have so much potential to artificially and drastically alter the outcome of a match. Much more than items ever did.


Understand that we have to get our hands on it first before making final judgment. But seeing what we have so far, they have A LOT to prove if they're going to be tourney legal.

Putting them in allows huge potential for sudden damage spikes and more turnovers based on when your Wii decides to spit out a Smash Ball at random.

 

[Zauron]

It's not a question of "Why not?" It's a question of "Why?"

I think we've covered the "Why?" pretty well. Because its a core component of the game that affects the balance level between characters, which the devs are using in their balancing. Thus, by not having them, you are gimping characters who are balanced with their FS as a factor to improve their overall skillset. We should have them for the same reason we allow Smash attacks, throws, B moves, or anything else that works differently for different characters.

Now I know we never would, but pretend for a moment that we decided Side+B moves should be banned. Some players, like Yoshi users, would probably not mind that much. It doesn't change their character a whole lot since their Side+B isn't very good. But other players, like Samus users, would be pretty upset about losing their missiles.

I'm aware that's a ridiculous example and different, but think about it for a bit. What if you played a character that had an awesome FS but was weak otherwise? But another guy played a character whose FS wasn't that great (like Pit's) but were otherwise quite effective? The second player isn't going to mind if FS's are banned, it means he doesn't have to deal with the FS from the weaker character and his isn't that big of a deal anyway. But what about the weaker character with the great FS? That's kind of unfair to gimp his character isn't it? Just as unfair as banning Side+B's would be to Samus players, when Yoshi players probably wouldn't care much.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

.... and better comboing (extended hit stun on multi-hit attacks).

Umm.... that would make for worse comboing, as it would make SDI a lot easier

Remove Final Smashes and you remove part of the formula that forms the basis for THIS game.

That was said about items, too, but as the Smash Ball is an item, the same rules apply. Items can be turned off.

While it may not feel like it because it wasn't in Melee, Final Smashes are a core part of Brawl. It was the first major change shown. Removing it is removing what makes the game Brawl and not Melee v1.5.

Yeah, adding a new item changes brawl so much.

What about removing those Final Smash-like goal kicks in Mario Strikers Charged? Is it still the same game without them? Can you say that this player is better than that player at Mario Strikers Charged without seeing how the players would make use of those goal kicks? It seems all you'd be showing is if one player is more skilled than the other at some other soccer game, because Strikers has those goal kicks.

Those are not overpowered simply because they are hard to land and easy to counter. I have a friend that can stop 6 super fast balls consistently (like 90% of the time). Thus, they do not greatly alter Gameplay.

And Brawl is built around Final Smashes, as evidenced by how much the Nintendo reps and Sakurai are making a big deal about them.

It is not built around FS. Notice it's called Smash Bros, not Final Smash Bros. FS are an extra item, as is seen in the new Gameplay vids.

We can't remove the random factors entirely - they are built into the stages and the characters.

No stage that has randomness is allowed in mlg play. Some charactes have slight randomness (peach) but it does not greatly affect gameplay, so it doesn't matter.

Are we willing to completely eliminate a core feature of a game, something that makes it what it is? Can you honestly say this player is better than that player at Brawl, when niether has access to a core component, when it is highly possible that one of the players is very good at making effective use of their Final Smash, or even better, taking advantage through mind games of the other player's Final Smash to kill them while they are trying to get it, or are in the middle of using it (as someone else said, a roll-dodge through Samus and now you have all the time in the world to use a devestating Smash attack to finish her while she's stuck in that shot animation)?

These arguments have all been said about items. Fact is, FS are items. Items can be turned off. As much randomness as possible is eliminated, so items (including FS, which is just another item) are turned off.

As another poster said, once they are banned its probably never going to be unbanned. It could be a huge loss to the Smash tourney community to eliminate something that has potential to add a lot to the mindgames of tournament play based on information from a different game. We really should give it a chance and make 100% sure we don't like it, based on THIS game and what THIS game's balancing is like, before we throw it away.

Yup, randomness adds a lot of mindgames. [/sarcasm]

 

[Samochan]

That's a very short sighted point of view. What if I told the SF3 community that because Supers are really powerful and hard to avoid, they are thus imbalanced, and should not be allowed in tourney play? FS's are just as much a core part of what makes Brawl what it is as Supers are a part of Street Fighter 3.

Maybe cause everyone has a super and can make supers based on their meters and not based on how many randomly floathing smash orbs they've managed to caught BEFORE THEIR OPPONENT GETS THEM. Smash balls are not divided equally, someone might get 2 smash balls instead of one, someone might get 3 or 4 maybe. Even the worse player can get a smash ball if it happens to spawn right beside him and use it and just think about how many smash balls can a pro get against a worse player than him. If anything smash balls just widen the gap between skilled and less skilled players and if in some occasion the lesser skilled player were to win... then he just got plain lucky of having a smash ball next to him instead of doing something weird on his own that actually hit his opponent and scored a KO for him. If a player were to get only one smash ball per game, the situation would be different, but the video is evidence that this is not the case and smash balls are not distributed equally, thus making it a luck game of "who gets the most smash balls per game". It's the same with items, who gets the most pokeballs or bo-obms has an unfair advantage against the person who didn't get it, but just happened to be on other side of the stage. I don't see how it's fair.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Smash Balls are very common, more so than hammers, and involve just as much luck as all the other items. Also, they are really powerful, and are thus imbalanced. So no, no smash balls in tourney play.

OMG! Try reading a little before you blindly post in ignorance.

Thank you very much Zauron. I couldn't have said it better myself and I agree whole heartedly.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Maybe cause everyone has a super and can make supers based on their meters and not based on how many randomly floathing smash orbs they've managed to caught BEFORE THEIR OPPONENT GETS THEM. Smash balls are not divided equally, someone might get 2 smash balls instead of one, someone might get 3 or 4 maybe. Even the worse player can get a smash ball if it happens to spawn right beside him and use it and just think about how many smash balls can a pro get against a worse player than him. If anything smash balls just widen the gap between skilled and less skilled players and if in some occasion the lesser skilled player were to win... then he just got plain lucky of having a smash ball next to him instead of doing something weird on his own that actually hit his opponent and scored a KO for him. If a player were to get only one smash ball per game, the situation would be different, but the video is evidence that this is not the case and smash balls are not distributed equally, thus making it a luck game of "who gets the most smash balls per game". It's the same with items, who gets the most pokeballs or bo-obms has an unfair advantage against the person who didn't get it, but just happened to be on other side of the stage. I don't see how it's fair.

Samochan gets it.

FS= Items
Same rules apply.

 

[Makkers]

Try to drop the ideal of, "This is the way the Melee tournament scene is now, so this must be how the Brawl tournament scene should be."

I wish to quote Kashakunaki yet again here since he (She?) has made the best point in this entire debate. The fact is that there are people here that is arguing a point that would work well in a pre-existing game (Melee) but not so much an unreleased game (Brawl). To make absolute claims such as "OMG, it's overpowered because what I saw in a demo of an unreleased game" is just silly. The fact is that the intelligent way to claim something is overpowered is through testing of the final version. Instead, we're too fixated on how different the game will be from Melee, attempting to make Brawl into Melee 2. That simply doesn't make sense.

This is not to say that there are valid concerns when it comes to FSs. All I'm saying is that coming to conclusions and dictating how X will work based on footage of an unreleased game is just foolish. For all we know, certain shown FSs may either be Place Holders or ultimately become nerfed/buffed/replaced.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I wish to quote Kashakunaki yet again here since he (She?) has made the best point in this entire debate. The fact is that there are people here that is arguing a point that would work well in a pre-existing game (Melee) but not so much an unreleased game (Brawl). To make absolute claims such as "OMG, it's overpowered because what I saw in a demo of an unreleased game" is just silly. The fact is that the intelligent way to claim something is overpowered is through testing of the final version. Instead, we're too fixated on how different the game will be from Melee, attempting to make Brawl into Melee 2. That simply doesn't make sense.

This is not to say that there are valid concerns when it comes to FSs. All I'm saying is that coming to conclusions and dictating how X will work based on footage of an unreleased game is just foolish. For all we know, certain shown FSs may either be Place Holders or ultimately become nerfed/buffed/replaced.

However, through logical thinking we can make some assumptions about Final Smashes. Basically what Samochan said is true. Yes, Brawl isn't Melee, but many people that have played the game have stressed that it is very similar to it.

Yes, things can change, but I doubt major things will happen.

 

[Makkers]

However, through logical thinking we can make some assumptions about Final Smashes. Basically what Samochan said is true. Yes, Brawl isn't Melee, but many people that have played the game have stressed that it is very similar to it.

Yes, things can change, but I doubt major things will happen.

Assumptions are not facts. Assumptions based on unfinished product are not facts. I can assume that Smash Balls will spawn once every 10 seconds or assume that Smash Balls will always spawn more than once a match when the game is released. However, these assumptions are not facts since I ultimately can't make that determination until the game is released. No one can, not even Samochan.

Things will change, regardless of how much it will change. My advice? Stay tuned.

 

[NES n00b]

I think we've covered the "Why?" pretty well. Because its a core component of the game that affects the balance level between characters, which the devs are using in their balancing. Thus, by not having them, you are gimping characters who are balanced with their FS as a factor to improve their overall skillset. We should have them for the same reason we allow Smash attacks, throws, B moves, or anything else that works differently for different characters.

If this is the best way the developers could balance the game, that would be the most ******** move in history of balancing videogames. I am serious. Imagine this, Fox is beating the hell out of Bowser and Bowser gets knocked away, but now the smash orb just appeared except next to Fox. Fox has a powerful upair and he is really fast so he gets it. Did this situation seem to balance the game? No, not at all. The fast (broken) characters are going to be the ones to get the smash orbs. Even if the slow characters could get the smash orbs if they appeared next to them, they have to depend on the luck appearing right next to them. The higher tiered character still has the highest chance to get it due to his speed and it can appear next to them.

How in the heck it could be balanced is beyond ****ing me. Maybe if they put super bars like SF3 it could have been some kind of balance thing, but it is not. It is an item that everyone could get at random times and would favor the faster characters.

 

[Samochan]

I still do wish to see some final smashes in action before they get banned, cause if a big name or tourney bans final smashes, everyone follow suit and then they have little to no chance of getting unbanned. But still, with the recent video evidence final smashes are very likely to get banned due to various reasons mentioned on this thread. And The Final smashes themselves are unbalanced to make matters worse. If Pit were to get like 4 smash balls per game, a good player could just dodge, block, ledgestall and all that to avoid pit's final smashes alltogether, while Pika could just initiate his final smash once, touch a player with a frigging big electric flying ball of doom and they instantly get 600% (maybe not that much, but it was on an interview) and he's already at advantage. Meta Knight has an insta KO final smash said on interview (not to mention already broken stuff like invincible tornado and ledgecancelable dash attack that does 20-40%) and Peach has self heal along maybe even possibly 3 other modes pointed out by another member of this forum (love?, rage, gloom, joy from her super princess peach game) and Kirby too can self heal with max tomato, then get a warp star and curry too. >_>;;

 

[SAMaine]

Hang on, aren't items banned because they have the explody boxes, crates, and capsules that appear? I've never seen any boxes, crates, or capsules explode in Brawl, though I HAVE seen an empty crate... I've also never seen the Smash Ball come FROM a crate, nor is it LISTED AS an item.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

They would make matches more interesting and unpredictable, and I'd love to see them. But, they also seem pretty cheap, too. Once the meta game is actually established, after much testing and tinkering, I doubt they'll be allowed.

 

[Bocom]

Friendlies only. That's what I believe.

 

[Takeshi245]

Hang on, aren't items banned because they have the explody boxes, crates, and capsules that appear? I've never seen any boxes, crates, or capsules explode in Brawl, though I HAVE seen an empty crate... I've also never seen the Smash Ball come FROM a crate, nor is it LISTED AS an item.

The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed.-Smash Bros. Dojo Just because it isn't listed as an item in Smash Dojo doesn't mean it isn't, especially with all the evidence. You guys can go ahead and argue while I just sit back and read your points. Continue on.

 

[Samochan]

The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed.-Smash Bros. Dojo Just because it isn't listed as an item in Smash Dojo doesn't mean it isn't, especially with all the evidence. You guys can go ahead and argue while I just sit back and read your points. Continue on.

And note Dojo said it can be performed but once, it's not true since pit has used final smash twice on a video. Dojo is contradicting itself. <_>

 

[Crispy4001]

I think we've covered the "Why?" pretty well. Because its a core component of the game that affects the balance level between characters, which the devs are using in their balancing. Thus, by not having them, you are gimping characters who are balanced with their FS as a factor to improve their overall skillset. We should have them for the same reason we allow Smash attacks, throws, B moves, or anything else that works differently for different characters.

Now I know we never would, but pretend for a moment that we decided Side+B moves should be banned. Some players, like Yoshi users, would probably not mind that much. It doesn't change their character a whole lot since their Side+B isn't very good. But other players, like Samus users, would be pretty upset about losing their missiles.

I'm aware that's a ridiculous example and different, but think about it for a bit. What if you played a character that had an awesome FS but was weak otherwise? But another guy played a character whose FS wasn't that great (like Pit's) but were otherwise quite effective? The second player isn't going to mind if FS's are banned, it means he doesn't have to deal with the FS from the weaker character and his isn't that big of a deal anyway. But what about the weaker character with the great FS? That's kind of unfair to gimp his character isn't it? Just as unfair as banning Side+B's would be to Samus players, when Yoshi players probably wouldn't care much.

There's one key difference here that you're forgetting: Final Smashes are not part of your character's standard moveset. You can't pull one off unless you have a smash ball, therefore, they're not standard moves like a forward-A-smash or a forward-B. They're a glorified item-move, albiet executed differently for each character.


Unless you can change the frequency of them and more than one can pop up at a time, both players (in a 1vs1 senario) are not likely to be holding them at the same time. Therefore, it creates an artificial imbalance between the person who gets the smash ball and the person who doesn't. No amount of character tweaking, or Final Smash balancing even, can make up for that fact.

And although we may disagree here, I don't believe that bashing a ball for a few seconds will merit the advantage several of these moves give you. Prolonged invincibility +prolonged flight (Sonic, Yoshi)? Health + Sleep/Attack (Peach, Kirby)? All it takes to earn those uber-abilities is 'outplaying' the Smash Ball, which doesn't nessicarily mean outplaying your opponent.

The game spawns them at random times at random locations, meaning that such imbalances will be created without player influence. That means that pacing of the battle becomes largely depedant on what the random number generator spits out, and less on how the fighters are fighting.


And finally, I do hope that Sakurai doesn't try to balance the characters by gimping/overpowering certain characters Final Smashses, at the expense of balance without Smash Balls. Doing that would take for granted that both characters would attain the same number of Smash Balls for the duration of the match, which obviously won't be the case much of the time.

 

[Zauron]

I have nothing more to add. I think any reasonable open-minded person should know better than to make a firm statement that FS's should be on or off in tournaments at this point in time.

My only argument is that they should not be turned off right away until some tournaments have tried it with them on first. Once they are banned they'll stay banned, and so the logical course of action is to not ban them at first, just in case it turns out people prefer them turned on, and wait and see how it goes. This game will be popular for years, we have plenty of time after it is out and several tournaments have been run with FS's on to decide if they should be banned or not. Just like we did with items and stages in Melee, the tourney rules used now took a long time to reach this point, and I see no wisdom in jumping the gun for Brawl. It should have the same level of scrutiny and time for each aspect of the game before it is eliminated.

Just try to keep an open mind and remember this is a different game from melee. FS's are not like other items because they affect different characters differently and are a unique move for each character. Don't forget one character isn't even accessible without FS's, at least as far as we know so far. Seems a shame to ban an entire character before they even have a chance to be used in tournaments.

We must approach the changes in Brawl with new eyes and open minds and wait to decide what we want Brawl's pro scene to become when its had plenty of time to all sink in. Basing a firm decision off what we've seen so far and what was done in a previous game is foolish and short-sighted for either side of the argument.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Takeshi245]

And note Dojo said it can be performed but once, it's not true since pit has used final smash twice on a video. Dojo is contradicting itself. <_>

It meant that once you get the Smash Ball, you can only do one Final Smash until you get another Smash Ball, just like maxpower777 posted before.

 

[Zauron]

It meant that once you get the Smash Ball, you can only do one Final Smash until you get another Smash Ball, just like maxpower777 posted before.

Indeed, that's what I assumed when I first read it in the Dojo. He didn't specify what "once" meant, I assumed it meant "once per Smash Orb" indicating its not like a timer or something where you can use it as many times as you want once you get the orb, but that you can use it only once per orb.

 

[yoshi_fan]

I still do wish to see some final smashes in action before they get banned, cause if a big name or tourney bans final smashes, everyone follow suit and then they have little to no chance of getting unbanned. But still, with the recent video evidence final smashes are very likely to get banned due to various reasons mentioned on this thread. And The Final smashes themselves are unbalanced to make matters worse. If Pit were to get like 4 smash balls per game, a good player could just dodge, block, ledgestall and all that to avoid pit's final smashes alltogether, while Pika could just initiate his final smash once, touch a player with a frigging big electric flying ball of doom and they instantly get 600% (maybe not that much, but it was on an interview) and he's already at advantage. Meta Knight has an insta KO final smash said on interview (not to mention already broken stuff like invincible tornado and ledgecancelable dash attack that does 20-40%) and Peach has self heal along maybe even possibly 3 other modes pointed out by another member of this forum (love?, rage, gloom, joy from her super princess peach game) and Kirby too can self heal with max tomato, then get a warp star and curry too. >_>;;

The meta knigh instant KO is false, the same with pika's.

And about peach, it seems it depends of his "vibe" like in super princess peach. In happy, she heals and make sleep the others, in anger other thing happen, in sad others and so...

So we can't say nothing :S

 

[Koga]

It would be so hilarious if Smash balls aren't items, it'll make the game more interesting. They'll give a change of pace and keep it from being a stale grabfest

Oh, and from all the videos it seems the smash balls float away once they're hit, so it helps keep the person it spawns by from getting it to easily. I think it puts another objective into the game; beat your opponent, beat your opponent; oh wait! smash ball! beat the smash ball beat the smash ball !!!!!!111!!!11!!!!eleventy one!!!1!!

 

[Samochan]

The meta knigh instant KO is false, the same with pika's.

And do you have anything to prove that the interview is false? >_> He haven't seen either of them in action yet.

http://www.destructoid.com/hands-on-with-super-smash-bros-brawl-48983.phtml

 

[darkNES386]

That's a very short sighted point of view. What if I told the SF3 community that because Supers are really powerful and hard to avoid, they are thus imbalanced, and should not be allowed in tourney play? FS's are just as much a core part of what makes Brawl what it is as Supers are a part of Street Fighter 3.

Can Final Smashes be blocked?