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It does take more skill to shine spike someone than to Fsmash. And as a matter of fact, shine spiking does happen to be a more devastating attack than Fsmash. Now going back to my previous post; it does take skill to 0->death someone using regular combos. It doesn't take as much skill when you 0->death someone by the aid of an item that took off 60% alone. It wouldn't be fair to reward the player in both scenarios the same way, imo.
It's common sense to wait for a statement regarding a new gameplay mechanic when it comes to tournament play. Since items and FSs are not based on the same mechanic, it would only make sense for a certain level of evaluation to be performed before coming to an ultimate conclusion.
The spawn times may be random but they are out for long enough for everyone to change their zoning patterns. And for this reason alone they do not rely on much luck and all and end up being in the strategic realm as well as in the skill category.
Peach's Dsmash doesn't take up half the screen.
In MOST cases... not all, and so? It's not like Final Smash's are unavoidable either...Peach's Dsmash doesn't take up half the screen.
Also, you can DI out of it in most cases. So it's not really the same. Do think that her down-smash needed some balance adjustment in Melee however, just for the sake of what happens when everything hits.
still, the fact that it's reliant on the smash ball just doesn't seem right. I also don't like how it usually does a ton of damage compared to combos a skilled player would have done.. and all it takes is the push of a single button. (not to sound redundant from Bento's post but I pretty much agree on that heartily.)
And there you have it. Guess I was following the wrong guy.
Indeed. Tacos and being open minded does in fact rock.
Let's say the Final Smashes were NOT trigger by An item, but was accumulated by K'O's or something. Don't you think it would completely change this entire argument? No, it seems as though some people are more focused on the attack itself than the fact that it comes from an Item
only if your paying for them
Actually, my position might've shifted around. PCChris does deserve to get his FS before me, because he's better than me, and because he would've worked for it.
It may not seem right but thats only because we have been playing tournament rules too much. I used to think that items were simple like you make the Final Smashes to be... easy to use to make you in instead of relying on skill. However when I went back and played with many of them I noticed a lot of them were not that bad. But you know what was a big problem with items? Explosions. Boxes and capsules had no invincibility frames at all when they were following and they would kill you while you where in an attack animation... no time to respond. I do turn off some items because they just give too much of a random advantage when I play with items on (which I usually don't). Smash ball just seems weird because it is an item but it works differently then any other items so we really need to test it out. It moves so you cannot camp for them which makes it impossible to do some of the item + level combination camps in melee.
You realize that more than one stage is used in tourneys, right?
Wow, REALLY? you realize that it was an example? do you know what "ex-am-ple" means?
That could be said of items, but items are banned, aren't they?
Ok .. firstly, this isnt a discussion about items, as we ALL know, for FACT, that items are unbalanced and add randomness and subtract skill from the fight.
because items appear out of nowhere, and can blow you up. Also, as soon as an item appears it becomes an attack, something that can up odds in their favor.
I understand what your saying, but youre missing my point. The point is that it takes time to break a FS ball. Unlike every other item(or sets of items that can be turned on for that matter...as in, turning one 1 item or 0 items creates containers and crates with bombs inside) which become weapons as soon as they are spawned.
Airdodged, actually. But as for my point, you just said it.
I agree with what he said. Final Smashes shouldn't be used in competitive play.
