Will there ever be major, non-canon mechanics added to Brawl+?

[GHNeko]

way to be open minded.

****ing competitive fighter communities.

 

[[TSON]]

we already have shield countering

its called grabs

in vbrawl pretty much this

but we are not cavemen. we have evolved.

 

[GHNeko]

obv not if we get comments like that to something completely new and expands the game's depth.

we have yet to try it in a set and we get dumb posts like that.

 

[MK26]

oh come on neko, u know im joking

if we really wanted to be cool with this, we'd make it so you turn around when you shield counter, so you grab when someone lands in front of you adn counter when someone lands behind

 

[Untouch]

The shield counter was designed to stop spammy characters, the grab wasn't.

 

[GHNeko]

i dont no u fool i can't tell when your joking >:V

 

[Untouch]

oh come on neko, u know im joking

if we really wanted to be cool with this, we'd make it so you turn around when you shield counter, so you grab when someone lands in front of you adn counter when someone lands behind

I was thinking of that and I couldn't find a logical way of doing it

 

[GHNeko]

the game doesnt have "getting hit in the front" and "getting hit in the back"

It just has getting hit.

 

[MK26]

ur shield gets hit and u press special --> you turn around and counterattack
regardless of which side you get hit on, you turn around

 

[Untouch]

Ok I'll start adding the codes to the characters


Mario - Fsmash
Luigi - Fsmash
Peach - Pimpslap
Bowser - Not sure
DK - ^Smash
Diddy - A tap
Wario - A tap
Yoshi - vSmash
Link - FSmash
TLink - FSmash
Zelda -A Tap
Sheik - vSmash
GDorf - A Tap
Samus - A Tap
ZSS - A Tap
Pit - ^Smash
IC - Fsmash
Rob - A Tap
Kirby - SideB
MK - FSmash
DDD - Dunno
Oly - ^Smash
Fox, Falco, Wolf - Fsmash
C Falcon - A Tap
Pika - A Tap
Squirtle - A Tap
Ivy - FSmash
Charizard - A Tap
Lucario - FSmash
Jiggs - NeutB
Marth - A Tap
Ike - Fsmash
GaW - A Tap
Snake - A Tap
Sonic - FSmash

 

[GHNeko]

Mario - Dsmash
Marth - Ftilt
MK - Dsmash
Jiggs - Grab
D3 - Grab

>_>

 

[mofo_]

idk about the upsmash ones

 

[GHNeko]

....I missed the Usmashes.

DK - Dsmash
Pit - Fsmash
Oli - Dtilt

 

[Untouch]

CFalcon - Ftilt
Diddy - Dtilt

 

[camelot]

CFalcon - PAWNCH
Diddy - Dtilt

Fixed

10101

 

[Untouch]

PAWNCH takes too long to do so I didn't use it,

Falcon and diddy done.
Marth done

 

[mofo_]

would the grab ones be an actual grab? or just the animation cuz thats the same as shield grab.

my suggestions because some standard jabs dont really look like a good move to counter with
bowser- 2nd jab or klaw animation
gdorf - ftilt lol
snake-3rd jab
wario - 2nd jab
g&w - ftilt
link/tlink - 3rd jab
samus - 2nd jab
DDD - id say 2nd or 1st jab
charizard - grab animation so it looks like he bites
squirtle - 3rd jab
lucario - 3rd jab? fsmash is good too
jiggz - fsmash?
ROB - ftilt or dash attack? idk if it can be stationary

anyways those are some ideas. maybe your original ideas are better, i dont how it would look like so until there are vids cant really be so sure

 

[Dan_X]

Yeah... wait a minute.

+1 support. HAD is sexy. I dont see how people say it takes away from the ground game, a wavedash would only add to the options for spacing. Take for example falco wavedashing into fast fall lasers, or Donkey Kong tech chasing with a wavedash'd downtilt. It's just so beautiful

Exactly! Each character would make use of it in a UNIQUE way. Unique is the opposite of homogenizing, amirite?

It's not that it takes away from the ground game, it just homogenizes it. No one wants a homogenized ground game.

And the homogenized arguement is ********, how is that different from saying that dashing homogenizes the ground game. It's another way of movement, with it's pros and cons. IF you were to say, give everybody marth's tilts, then it would be homogenizing it, but movement merely compliments a moveset (see captain falcon) and ultimately its the moves of a character which affects their playstyle.

Exactly.

Look at this thread. People are talking about wavedashing again. That's how creative we are I guess. It only takes a few pages before we get back to wavedashing. It's not going to happen. Give it up.

Oh? Why are you so close-minded? You're the one who made a thread about new techs in Brawl+. Did you honestly expect that WDing conversation wouldn't find its way here?

Why is WDing bad? Tell me, in detail, why it is. If you're basing off of the past code, then your point is moot. You have to be a bit realistic and understand that every aspect of it can be controlled, as such, we could, if we so shall choose, make sure it's balanced. Think for a moment what HAD, and WDing would bring to the table. The inclusion of a HAD system isn't only exciting, but it's creative. The idea is to take the best of Melee's aerial dodging system, and combine it with the best of Brawl's. I'm sure many can agree, or at least be persuaded, that having the option to use some intelligence with an aerial dodge is a good thing. The inclusion of a single directional based dodge will single-handedly add to the ledge game, the air game, the ground game-- every aspect of the game. It can be used for mindgames, spacing, triangle jumps (which are awesome)... etc. The fact that it combines two aerial systems into one ENTIRELY NEW unique one means that Brawl's aerial game will NOT suffer. You'll still be able to Brawl AD, just as you always have.

If wavedashing is bad based on the stigma attached to the name... let's rename it? I could careless what it's called, I just care about the depth that it brings to the table.

way to be open minded.

I'd urge you to be more open-minded with HAD. WDing will only homogenize the game if it's the best option. I think it's silly not to realize that character will make use of WDing and HAD in different ways, for different strategies.

 

[Untouch]

KK I'm going to bed here are the characters i've done so far.

http://www.mediafire.com/?a2mmwym4d2y

Night.

 

[GHNeko]

Exactly! Each character would make use of it in a UNIQUE way. Unique is the opposite of homogenizing, amirite?

Not really. It'll be used the same way in Melee. There are multiple things characters can do with Wavedashing just like in melee, but it'll be used over all other ground movement options in extremely similar fashions across the roster a super majority of the time. That's what we meant by homogenizing.

Looking at the definition I have to disagree. If each character will incorporate HAD, and WDing in DIFFERENT ways how is it homogenizing the game? Everyone can dash, RAR, and jump, and they don't make use of them in the exact same way, do they? The fact that each character will be able to WD doesn't automatically homogenize the game. You're assuming that each character will use WDing in EXACTLY the same way, not adhering it to character specific strategies. This is where the whole homogenization counter argument loses ground.

As previously stated, WDing will pretty much be used the same way in melee. There are character specific strats that come with WDing, but most uses of WDing are the same among the roster tbh.


Going by your standards one can assume that any universal tech automatically homogenizes the game. This may include, and is not limited to, Dash Dancing, Dash Canceling, and RARing. Using your logic, how can you back the ideas surrounding a universal Counter Attack AT without first admitting that it would homogenize the game? Can't everyone make use of this AT?

Universal techs that are used almost always over every other option in that category is homogenizing. iirc, dash dancing is the only at of its class, same for Dash canceling, and RARing. shield guarding would supposedly have its own flaws and would not be a better choice over other oos options a super majority of the time, or at least, that's how it'd be balanced. you can't balance WDing without taking away things that making WDing...well...WDing...

universal ATs != homogenizing
universal ATs that are used as much as other options within that category != homogenizing
universal ATs that are used 2x/3x mre than other options within that category == homogenizing

The only way WDing would homogenize the game would be if it was the BEST option at all times. As I've put, we have the ability now to ensure this isn't the case. If it's balanced, it becomes just another option--- not the one and only option. This will bring so much to the game it's not even funny. This will add more options to everyone's game. Think of Bowser with WDing. Like DDing, WDing can be used for mindgames, and fakeouts. Again, how can this possible prove bad for the ground game?

Not really. It doesn't have to be the best option. Just the option used over everything else most of the time. But of course, in a competitive setting, the best option will be used.



Exactly.

Dashing doesn't homogenize the game because characters have less options over walking when dashing. Wavedashing gives characters all the options of being in a neutral stance which > both dashing and walking.

Oh? Why are you so close-minded? You're the one who made a thread about new techs in Brawl+. Did you honestly expect that WDing conversation wouldn't find its way here?

I'm not close-minded, but i'm not dumb either. I know for a fact what Wavedashing will do to the ground game, even with HAD. Wavedashing gives you the most options over dashing and walking because you're basically moving while in a neutral stance and you can do everything from a neutral stance. Also, something that the super majority of the community is against, while more than likely not happen without a powerful voice. if I want something, but 70%+ of the communitiy and WBR says no, its not happening and i have to deal.

Why is WDing bad? Tell me, in detail, why it is. If you're basing off of the past code, then your point is moot. You have to be a bit realistic and understand that every aspect of it can be controlled, as such, we could, if we so shall choose, make sure it's balanced. Think for a moment what HAD, and WDing would bring to the table. The inclusion of a HAD system isn't only exciting, but it's creative. The idea is to take the best of Melee's aerial dodging system, and combine it with the best of Brawl's. I'm sure many can agree, or at least be persuaded, that having the option to use some intelligence with an aerial dodge is a good thing. The inclusion of a single directional based dodge will single-handedly add to the ledge game, the air game, the ground game-- every aspect of the game. It can be used for mindgames, spacing, triangle jumps (which are awesome)... etc. The fact that it combines two aerial systems into one ENTIRELY NEW unique one means that Brawl's aerial game will NOT suffer. You'll still be able to Brawl AD, just as you always have.

WDing is not bad. it has it's pros and cons. but the changes it brings to the table are simply not desired by a huge majority of the community. it's dumb, but that's what it is.

If wavedashing is bad based on the stigma attached to the name... let's rename it? I could careless what it's called, I just care about the depth that it brings to the table.

if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, its a duck.



I'd urge you to be more open-minded with HAD. WDing will only homogenize the game if it's the best option. I think it's silly not to realize that character will make use of WDing and HAD in different ways, for different strategies.

i'm pretty open minded, but you also need to realize that without strong support, your efforts are fruitless. :/

i wouldn't mind either way because I enjoy melee as well, but eh. I wouldn't like the massive negative stigma that would come with wavedashing reintroduced through HAD, i can say that much.

also, this thread is about brand new techs/ATs, not bring back old ones. stop talking about wavedashing in this thread.

 

[[TSON]]

Mario - Dsmash
Marth - downB hit
MK - Ftilt final hit
Jiggs - fthrow or dsmash
D3 - sakurai smash at 3x speed

>_>

fffffixed.

 

[leafgreen386]

Hey guys let's give every character a windbox the size of FD on all their attacks. Good technique y/y

 

[GHNeko]

yyyyyy

windboxes make everything better.

i'd support HAD with windboxes

 

[leafgreen386]

yyyyyy

windboxes make everything better.

i'd support HAD with windboxes

Let's add a bunch of new meters to the game for people to keep track of to balance it.

WINDBOXESSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[[TSON]]

we should have windboxes on the winner on the results screen and blow the loser offscreen

doitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitttt

 

[leafgreen386]

Windboxes for top tier.

 

[camelot]

also, this thread is about brand new techs/ATs, not bring back old ones.

I guess moonwalking is out of the question, then?

 

[GHNeko]

oh

new AT

tornado smashes


i know you know where im going with this.

@camelot: i'd sound like a hypocrite if I say it was okay lmao.

 

[leafgreen386]

Tornado smashes will revolutionize the metagame.

 

[Valuno]

Pit's shield counter should be his third jab hit.

Also, if we could make crawling animations for every character, how about universal crawl dashing?

 

[leafgreen386]

Pit's shield counter should be his third jab hit.

Also, if we could make crawling animations for every character, how about universal crawl dashing?

As long as it has windboxes.

 

[GHNeko]

Why doesn't ssmash have windboxes?

tornado sakurai smash imo

top tier

obv

 

[leafgreen386]

We need to put windboxes on all the moves that don't have them, and then put more windboxes on the ones that do. It will be good.

LONG LIVE SUPER SMASH BROS WINDBOX+

obv

 

[[TSON]]

trip AND slide?! that would be epic on bridge of eldin.

 

[Valuno]

Windboxes huh....

How about something like shield counter, except it'd be like a MvC advancing guard.
So, when someone hits your shield, within a certain window you'd press b, and you'd lessen shield stun and push your opponent away (with WINDBOXES!).

/random thought

 

[camelot]

And, make it so that everyone's friction is less than Luigi's. Then make Luigi have no friction.

And the only stage we play on is Mario Bros. with horizontal looping.

Weeeeee.... round and round it goes...

 

[Kink-Link5]

Windboxes on oooair please

 

[GHNeko]

but seriously, i'd like to see Shield Counters in action.

no lie.

 

[mofo_]

hmmm about change some characters actions to battering weapon ftilt/fsmash (not homerunbat) ? i looked at some of the characters animations and they look like a great counter move, not only that, it wont look weird having it look like another attack since you wouldnt see the swing animation ( except if peach pulls a beam swod but thats rare )


or change every characters animation to trophy stand throw...thatd look very cool :D

 

[GHNeko]

i think the idea is to use normal moves rather than making new moves for the purpose of countering.

idk could be wrong. :V