Will there ever be major, non-canon mechanics added to Brawl+?

[Seikishidan Soru]

I'm sure that counter hits would help a lot in teaching people to defend and attack at a proper time lol.

 

[BEES]

all characters should be combo heavy characters

 

[Falcon88]

I agree on most points with the "enhancing mobility" points. I think a very effective, but simple way to speed up the game would be to reduce landing lag overall. Some moves would obviously still have a good amount of land lag, like for instance Luigi's Up B, but most others would not. This lessened lag could enable follow-ups from fast-falled aerials that weren't possible before, and it would make aerials a little safer to use near the ground. (This may overpower some characters, so aerial lag will have to be handled on an individual basis.)

Counter hits might be okay, as long as the effect of them isn't too noticeable. As said before, some characters could abuse this mechanism due to range. In the game I'm working on, Super Smash Bros Crusade, a counter hit simply induces extra hitlag and a slight screen flash to allow the attacker and the opponent time to react from the counter. Also, it looks cool.

 

[leafgreen386]

I agree on most points with the "enhancing mobility" points. I think a very effective, but simple way to speed up the game would be to reduce landing lag overall. Some moves would obviously still have a good amount of land lag, like for instance Luigi's Up B, but most others would not. This lessened lag could enable follow-ups from fast-falled aerials that weren't possible before, and it would make aerials a little safer to use near the ground. (This may overpower some characters, so aerial lag will have to be handled on an individual basis.)

Counter hits might be okay, as long as the effect of them isn't too noticeable. As said before, some characters could abuse this mechanism due to range. In the game I'm working on, Super Smash Bros Crusade, a counter hit simply induces extra hitlag and a slight screen flash to allow the attacker and the opponent time to react from the counter. Also, it looks cool.

Less landing lag? You are aware that many characters have 5 frames of landing lag on their aerials right now, right? Reducing landing lag any more wouldn't really do anything for the pace of the game. Reducing the time spent in the air would, though. Making it so characters rise faster would let them ff sooner, which is what would really increase the speed of the game.

At any rate, I do agree with whoever said that the focus should be on movement techs. Movement really is what makes smash interesting. However, what really makes smash interesting is how all the different characters move. Each of the characters handle differently, and adding a universal tech risks homogenizing this diversity. Homogenizing movement was one of the two primary reasons why MAD was originally rejected in brawl+ (the other was the airdodge screwing up the air game, but enough on that).

 

[Falcon88]

Less landing lag? You are aware that many characters have 5 frames of landing lag on their aerials right now, right?

Edit: Oops. We're talking Brawl + here, huh? If so, good going.

 

[Dan_X]

Yes, but in this day and age MAD doesn't have to be so homogenizing, we have the ability to tailor it to a high degree. Do I think MAD would be inconducisve to a better Brawl+? Absolutely. MAD is simply too limiting for Brawl, too restricting for the air game. It also makes it much more difficult to avoid juggling.

A Hybrid Air Dodge system however is another story. It'd take the best of both worlds. A directional air dodge and regular Brawl ADs. You'd only have one directional AD though. I think this would be the single best tech possible. It'd add so much to the game. For one, the directional AD would add a slew to mindganes and character specific strategies. It'd add triangle jumping. It'd add more variety to the ledge game. The most important thing to consider is that each aspect of HAD, everything it'd bring to the table is very much tweakable. We could ensure that it has it's host of limitations. We could ensure that it won't homogenize gameplay anymore than other techs such as DDing, DCing etc. I truly believe that if balanced each character can make use of a HAD system in unique ways, giving each haracter more depth, spacing opions, and more options in general.

Code space is no longer a problem. Homegenizing no longer has to be an excuse. "It doesn't have it's place in Brawl+" is also moot as who's to say anything we've added has it's place? Really the only excuse is that it could turn players off as it may be considered another tech barrier that newcomers don't want to learn. However... Isn't that the idea of an AT? I mean, no matter the AT, even others mentioned in this thread, they still require the wherewithall to learn and execute atln otherwise foreign mechanic. At least a directional dodge isn't even entirely alien to the majority of us.

What do you guys think? Please don't flame me, I'd appreciate concise thoughtful responses.

Thanks. Please excuse typos... I typed this from my iPod.

 

[GHNeko]

I think the issue people have with directional airdodging is what it does to the ground game.

And that's pretty much it really.

 

[Untouch]

New AAA attacks, for example if you hold ^ or not, it'll do a different move.

 

[Dan_X]

How bout a new AT called "Rage Quit..."

It's pretty difficult to do, but if your losing badly it's a must. Hold down the A button for 10 seconds, and the enemy will fly off the stage being hit by an invisible hitbox that's larger than the stage and does 999% damage with a zillion KB.

Sounds broken but it's really not. I mean, when will you have 10 full seconds to hold down just A uninterrupted???? Good luck!

I'm Orca and I approve this message.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Seriously, can't we have 0:13 in the video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2XjwbO9U74

 

[GHNeko]

with those VAs no.

ewwwwww

 

[Dan_X]

Wow the voice acting was TERRIBLE! So high-pitch and annoying.

 

[GHNeko]

That's megaman alright, but god was that VA was worse than MMX4 Zero.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

lol at VA's

 

[Dan_X]

I've actually never seen that game before. Is it actually a good fighting game?? The weapons looked ********, if it was to be taken seriously that garbage MUST be turned off.

This next tidbit is unrelated, but do the DBZ games such as tenkaichi (whichever version) have a competitive following? From the outside looking in I'd say the games are FAR FROM BALANCED. The games serve more as fan service than actual deep fighters. I ask this because some of my friends play religiously, though it's not like they are part of some online community, they just play it allll day and night... haha

 

[Kei_Takaro]

I've actually never seen that game before. Is it actually a good fighting game?? The weapons looked ********, if it was to be taken seriously that garbage MUST be turned off.

This next tidbit is unrelated, but do the DBZ games such as tenkaichi (whichever version) have a competitive following? From the outside looking in I'd say the games are FAR FROM BALANCED. The games serve more as fan service than actual deep fighters. I ask this because some of my friends play religiously, though it's not like they are part of some online community, they just play it allll day and night... haha

lol its Onimusha Blade Warriors XD

DB Evolution for PSP? lol
ahem, but seriously I think DBZ Tenkaichi series has a fair amount of goodness to be competitive. Dunno about budokai though

 

[GHNeko]

Charge up via taunting to get 105% fresh bonus on your next move.

Like tekken. hurr

Also, grabbing characters out of a tech roll. If you can manage to do it, you deserve it.

 

[Kitamerby]

Charge up via taunting to get 105% fresh bonus on your next move.

Like tekken. hurr

Also, grabbing characters out of a tech roll. If you can manage to do it, you deserve it.

Game and Watch. D:

 

[mofo_]

meh, i like the idea of fully charged smash being slightly different.

 

[JCaesar]

How bout a new AT called "Rage Quit..."

It's pretty difficult to do, but if your losing badly it's a must. Hold down the A button for 10 seconds, and the enemy will fly off the stage being hit by an invisible hitbox that's larger than the stage and does 999% damage with a zillion KB.

Sounds broken but it's really not. I mean, when will you have 10 full seconds to hold down just A uninterrupted???? Good luck!

I'm Orca and I approve this message.

Well, it would prevent planking...

 

[Untouch]

I could program a quick counter, how about if you're shielding, and you press a right when an attack hits. If you're way off, the shield could break, I dunno lol

 

[NeoTLkid]

I could program a quick counter, how about if you're shielding, and you press a right when an attack hits. If you're way off, the shield could break, I dunno lol

yes!

also i like the idea about rolling off ledges, and different smashes if they are fully charged (won't see it often though)

 

[Untouch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zt_v8nS6so

Here's the counter, is this good?

 

[Dan_X]

Well, it would prevent planking...

This as true.

@Untouch:
looks interesting. I'm not sure how it would work for the balance of the game though.

 

[grim mouser]

Might make shields OP and standing dodges obsolete (?). The window might need to be made really small.

 

[twiblets]

It might be a good way to compensate for shield pressure being buffed by better movement. more subtle than just reducing shield stun. yeah i think it could work really well.

 

[Shadic]

Maybe make it so you'd have to both power-shield and press A/B to pull it off?

 

[Untouch]

I was going to make it A+B but it was really hard to do.

 

[twiblets]

but i dont think you should be allowed to use it for each hit of a shield breaker combo - only 1 counter per single use of the shield. In other words if you fail to counter one hit you can't combo again until your shield has returned to full size

 

[Untouch]

but i dont think you should be allowed to use it for each hit of a shield breaker combo - only 1 counter per single use of the shield. In other words if you fail to counter one hit you can't combo again until your shield has returned to full size

I could do that, just add a variable when you start the sheild.



How does this sound, if you're pressing both A + B and you get hit you counter, but the sheild goes down faster (i'll have to find a way to do that).

 

[BEES]

So what's the deal with smash canceling? Is this technique getting any consideration from the b'roomers?

And what of conditional IASA frames?

If shield countering gets in, I hope some sort of offense buff like these accompanies it.

 

[Untouch]

I think I found the variable for shield size.

 

[GHNeko]

You can't just assign it to A+B, because of custom controls. The window should be 1 frame to activate and 3 to fail.

Does the counter have inviciframes? If so, i'd be better with none or heavy armor.

I like the concept. Shielding wont be OP if the ratio of success:failure is in failures favor because you'd constantly risk ****ing up and getting punished, and it would nowhere near as safe as spot dodges.

The speed and power of the counter could be individualized for balancing purposes.

 

[[TSON]]

Shield+Special for counter was fine.

 

[GHNeko]

That makes sense. All the counter moves in teh game are specials. Shield + Attack = Grab

So Shield + Special = Counter.

Which means that you should only have to press special button at the right time.

This mechanic would fail hard against multihit moves lol.

 

[[TSON]]

Heavy armor on it with a flashing white tint instead of a solid.

And Jigglypuff side smash counter for epic fail tier.

lol snake side smash counter

I think we should use jab3 on characters who have them, and if they don't then use something else.

 

[Untouch]

I'm thinking of having a small "slowdown" on all characters if you succesfully counter, to avoid multi hit screwing up.

 

[Shadic]

It could just be individualized for certain characters.

Snake could get the second hit of Ftilt, Link could get Ftilt, MK would get last Ftilt hit(?), etc.

 

[Untouch]

It could just be individualized for certain characters.

Snake could get the second hit of Ftilt, Link could get Ftilt, MK would get last Ftilt hit(?), etc.

That's what i'm planning on doing as Olimar wouldn't work lol

 

[GHNeko]

I'm thinking of having a small "slowdown" on all characters if you succesfully counter, to avoid multi hit screwing up.

No. That would probably OP Shield Counter. Unless multihit glitches the counter, leave it as is. If it has a distinct weakness against multihit, leave it so, so that characters with multihit attacks dont have to worry (lol zelda) and it keeps people from being overly reliant.