Will there ever be major, non-canon mechanics added to Brawl+?

[Alphatron]

The zair characters won't get aerial grabs because they have zairs.

Obviously, aerial throws won't use meteor smash trajectories. The throws will vary in application, like they do on the ground.

 

[mofo_]

mmmm...aerial throws? maybe........

im leaning torwards roll offs and shield counter

 

[jalued]

what happened to Magnus-cancel? too complicated to code? or just not enough support? cause im ALL for that AT!

edit: for anyone who doesn't know: Magnus-cancel is the idea of optional additional lag reduction on air moves by pressing L (on top of ALR), however also eating a chunk of shield per use, hence making it situational and strategic, rather than a repetitive input such as L-cancelling was in melee

 

[Alphatron]

^I think shanus said it would way too many broken combos the way moves are now. Too many things would have to be reworked.

 

[jalued]

^I think shanus said it would way too many broken combos the way moves are now. Too many things would have to be reworked.

thats a real shame, as i feel that it would really add to the game and make it unique compared to melee. Wish i knew how to code this all, as unless someone is dedicated to adding this, it will probably never

how easy would it be able to code though? ignoring balance

 

[Alphatron]

PSA perhaps?

I actually want to see if air throws are possible now though. :O

 

[mofo_]

air throws? can you make different animations have grab boxes?..it'd look unusual to be a ground animation in the air... idea: make it so the throw is almost instant...you air grab them but then you have like 1 second to input a direction, but if you don't you get punished somehow...and the person you grabbed is unaffected ( also make it so that if they get air thrown or failed air grabbed they get their mid air jump back and up b back especially for snake )

 

[Alphatron]

I was thinking more along the lines of being instantly thrown after getting grabbed. Like Dedede could have his uthrow as his aerial throw. Ness could have his fthrow as his aerial throw, etc.

As far as grab animations in the air would look, I'm not concerned for anyone aside from Falcon and Gordonblaerf. They'd need to have their aerial grab animations tweaked.

Edit: Magus cancel may not be a bad thing to implement if it cuts your shield down by 75% after using it. Would allow for that extra hit without being broken at all. 50% is too low as the shield regens fairly quickly.

 

[theCook]

Seems like the Brawl+ community is a good enough reason for a lot of players to migrate from brawl.

Brawl+ seems to lend itself to players winning, which is positive.

Brawl tends to lend itself to players losing, which is negative.

I guess that seems odd, but it's true IMHO.

 

[BEES]

Stuff I'd like to try, not necessarily in Brawl+ but in a side project at least. A Brawl++ if you will.

Picture Brawl+ with these codes on top of it:
Bursting - Zair if the opponent lands 4 consecutive hits with the same attack, taking into account multi-hit attacks and grab/grab attack/throws.
Holding Grab + Dashing = wavedashing (this would also mean wavedashing out of shields)
Grab-canceled smashes (implying wavedash canceled smashes)
IASA frames added to 2 attacks - either a special and aerial, 2 aerials, or 2 specials depending on the character. If the attack is landed, the IASA frames apply.

Broken? Definitely. I can think of several problems certain back-roomers would have with this series of cancels and movement tactics.

 

[Metal B]

Jump Dash:
It would be possible to use the second jump to use a jump dash. You can dash forward, back and to the ground. Jump Dash upwards is of course just a regular jump. The jump dash could be use to play more offensive and also defensive in the still of melee. Also it would give the possible to more combos.

Sliding:
If the Character still got movement form the jump dash and touch the ground, he slids it along. While he slides he can use ground attacks and use the shild. But he loses the ability to jump again and sidestep, as long as he slides.

 

[Rudra]

Sliding:
If the Character still got movement form the jump dash and touch the ground, he slids it along. While he slides he can use ground attacks and use the shild. But he loses the ability to jump again and sidestep, as long as he slides.

I had once thought of something similar to this in that a character can slide should they fastfall out of a jump (without using an aerial) while holding a downward diagonal direction on the joystick. I'd love to have Wavelanding back, but one shouldnt be able to stick to platforms if its used. =/

 

[shanus]

I like to slide around.

hypeM

 

[goodoldganon]

I like to slide around.

hypeM

u r so silly

 

[mofo_]

I was thinking more along the lines of being instantly thrown after getting grabbed. Like Dedede could have his uthrow as his aerial throw. Ness could have his fthrow as his aerial throw, etc.

As far as grab animations in the air would look, I'm not concerned for anyone aside from Falcon and Gordonblaerf. They'd need to have their aerial grab animations tweaked.

Edit: Magus cancel may not be a bad thing to implement if it cuts your shield down by 75% after using it. Would allow for that extra hit without being broken at all. 50% is too low as the shield regens fairly quickly.

if youre gonna go with that make it the throws weak and a missed grab would have lag

 

[Almo40192]

heheheh brawl has final smashes...thats the first thing i thought of when you said so mething big melee doesnt have

 

[BEES]

Final smashes which are useless and unbalanced. Though it would be possible to balance them. Maybe a powerstone system where you pick up 3 smash balls to get a final smash... tweak all of them to give everyone about 10 seconds to kill everyone else on the screen with them.

 

[jalued]

Edit: Magus cancel may not be a bad thing to implement if it cuts your shield down by 75% after using it. Would allow for that extra hit without being broken at all. 50% is too low as the shield regens fairly quickly.

or you could just make shields regenerate slower overall and still keep it at 75% loss. Powershielding is so much easier in brawl that the shields could cope with recovering slower.

Could someone just make a code for this once and see how it is received by the community? As long as it wouldnt take months to code ofc, i understand that there are better things to focus on rather than a mechanic that while potentially making the game unique also unbalances the cast rediculously. Would just love to try it out and give opinions

 

[King Funk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zt_v8nS6so

Here's the counter, is this good?

That idea is really nice. I also liked smash canceling and another idea everyone seems to have failed to notice: "dash dancing increases running speed a little".

 

[shanus]

Random fun code idea:

Final Smash earning:

You have a meter which fills directly proportional to the damage that you deal (not including projectiles).
The meter drains at a rate of say, 2%/second to discourage camping.

After you hit a cap of around 80-90 on the meter, you earn a final smash.

The new final smash would have the following properties:
It is initiated at any time through a button press of A+B.
It cancels all lag of the move currently used.
Your next offensive collision deals 1.5x knockback.
This final smash can be smacked out of you just like they are now.


I think it'd be pretty epic, just tossing out this idea for fun

this code would be nigh next to impossible to make, lol

 

[jalued]

That idea is really nice. I also liked smash canceling and another idea everyone seems to have failed to notice: "dash dancing increases running speed a little".

still seems like a defensive focused AT... isnt attack more fun than defense? Just think a new AT should be aggressive based

 

[Alphatron]

or you could just make shields regenerate slower overall and still keep it at 75% loss. Powershielding is so much easier in brawl that the shields could cope with recovering slower.

Could someone just make a code for this once and see how it is received by the community? As long as it wouldnt take months to code ofc, i understand that there are better things to focus on rather than a mechanic that while potentially making the game unique also unbalances the cast rediculously. Would just love to try it out and give opinions

Making shields regenerate slower is a direct nerf to defensive characters.

But seeing shield countering on this page, that could definitely work. Just make the window for failure reasonable so that its not a consistent option(Unlike the parry system in Third Strike...)

Actually, if shield countering cut down on the shield as well once it actually suceeded, I'd like to see both that and Magus cancelling thrown in. Universal reduction to shield regen can be also be tried if the two techs wind up overcentralizing.

 

[jalued]

Making shields regenerate slower is a direct nerf to defensive characters.

But seeing shield countering on this page, that could definitely work. Just make the window for failure reasonable so that its not a consistent option(Unlike the parry system in Third Strike...)

Actually, if shield countering cut down on the shield as well once it actually suceeded, I'd like to see both that and Magus cancelling thrown in. Universal reduction to shield regen can be also be tried if the two techs wind up overcentralizing.

couldnt you make the parry only work when you perfect shield?

 

[Alphatron]

Perfect shielding is currently too good. That, and all of the options one has out of a perfect shield are already better than shield countering. I'd rather just attack or grab.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

i'm all for new mechanics in b+, but Only if they preserve the way smash is. you know, that free form feeling.

Smash isn't meant to be complicated visually at all. sure, you've got an interesting and deep combo game in melee and 64, but everything relevant to the match is in your percent, your stage, and the characters (and the items, if you've got em on). the only exception is FSes, and they're blatantly obvious. a giant, glowing orb is floating around. you hit it. it shatters on you. you glow now. Special Transformation Sequence.

smash doesn't have special bars. smash shouldn't have 'special circumstance transformation' techniques.
smash should always be subtle in the gameplay and obvious on the screen.

Edit: on another note, we really ought to be refining techniques the game shipped with too. Like foot-stools. And, yeah, i've approached this subject before (the Official B+ sticky), but, frankly, my ideas blow (except for widening the range of footstools on grounded opponents...c'mon, shouldn't that be mandatory?). it's a technique staring everyone in the face, but no one seems to be working towards making it more viable!

why not, guys?

This post says it all.

However, I've been discussing things like this on Shoryuken because they apparently think that the next smash should have Super gauges. I disagree completely but I DO think that the game should SUBTLY reward you for pulling off a string of attacks while also giving the one being beat the chance to reset the momentum.

Bear with me because I'm gonna be all over the place in this post. It may not make much sense.

Basically the thing that SRK and I discussed and agreed on was Super Specials. In essence, it's a more powerful version of your normal specials. For example, MArio would shoot 3 Fireballs instead of one. It's up to the community to decide which specials to give the ability to Super-fy without being too gay.

A combo in smash is basically a series of attacks that may or not be escapable. Be it a good read, a tech-chase, a lock of some kind or whatever, the opponent takes a nice amount of damage in a short period of time. LEt's say 50% in 3 seconds.

LEt's also say that there is some sort of invisible "gauge" that fills over time depending on the amount of damage you do/recieve. The max number of % that this gauge can hold is 60/70% before it refills, allowing a stack of 3.

upon filling that "gauge" you gain access to either Super Special or the Smash Wind(the burst-type thing).





Crap, I'm strapped for time so i may not get it all out. I'll finish the description later. Sorrry guys!

 

[shanus]

Shield countering to me is a terrible idea and solves no issues in the current iteration of B+ and if anything encourages camping.


However, a fairly obvious idea which has been brought up before:

Grab Breaking.

Example:
Frames 1-4 Punishment window - if you press the respective button during this window you cannot grab break.
Frames 5-7: active window, if you input A, you go into grounded grab break. If you input Y, you go into air release.

This technique not only removes grab infinites, it also removes lulzy CGs as well. However, it is a direct nerf to the grab game which could largely impact some chars.



*PLUR*, read my post like 3 above yours, lol

 

[BEES]

That seems totally unnecessary. I think it would punish tech-chase mindgames and allow for free attacks in the middle of a combo--why? Why should you be rewarded for getting grabbed? DON'T GET GRABBED.

I mentioned earlier a mechanism for bursting that would also eliminate chaingrabs - any 4 attacks in a row allow you to burst. 3 grab chaingrabs would be fine, but that's as long as they could be.

It preserves crucial combos like triple knee (well, assuming other physics changes haven't eliminated it), but tiltlocks, jablocks, repetitive uair juggles, and chaingrabs would be cut off abruptly.

 

[shanus]

That seems totally unnecessary. I think it would punish tech-chase mindgames and allow for free attacks in the middle of a combo--why? Why should you be rewarded for getting grabbed? DON'T GET GRABBED.

I mentioned earlier a mechanism for bursting that would also eliminate chaingrabs - any 4 attacks in a row allow you to burst. 3 grab chaingrabs would be fine, but that's as long as they could be.

It preserves crucial combos like triple knee (well, assuming other physics changes haven't eliminated it), but tiltlocks, jablocks, repetitive uair juggles, and chaingrabs would be cut off abruptly.

Most other competitive games out there let you grab break.

Also, you don't get punished for a grab break. Both players would come out neutral. it would be 30 frames of lag on both ends for grab release and grab break.

Its an end-neutral outcome.

 

[Alphatron]

Can't you already grab break in vbrawl?

And while I favor the burst idea to shield counteting, I don't see how the latter would promote defensive play if its so risky. Being stunned OoS is a deadly punishment.

 

[shanus]

You can grab break due to the opponent (either taking too long to initiate the throw or pummeling) via button mashing, or sometimes there are sort of luck based grab releases. None of these are psuedo immediate and really controllable.

 

[kupo15]

or you could just make shields regenerate slower overall and still keep it at 75% loss. Powershielding is so much easier in brawl that the shields could cope with recovering slower.

Could someone just make a code for this once and see how it is received by the community? As long as it wouldnt take months to code ofc, i understand that there are better things to focus on rather than a mechanic that while potentially making the game unique also unbalances the cast rediculously. Would just love to try it out and give opinions

This code already exists. It is in my agenda thread which was conveniently unstickied to cause you guys more of a hassle with your own B+ experience.

 

[JCaesar]

I've said this before (in this thread I think), but shield-countering is a bad idea. It encourages defensive play and camping, and it's completely superfluous anyway since powershielding outclasses it in every way.

I support grab breaking though, as long as the timing is difficult. It worked well in TMNT: SU (which is a much more grab-oriented game), though I wouldn't want to include a visual cue like in that game.

 

[Alphatron]

This code already exists. It is in my agenda thread which was conveniently unstickied to cause you guys more of a hassle with your own B+ experience.

Wait, magus cancel already exists!

 

[jalued]

This code already exists. It is in my agenda thread which was conveniently unstickied to cause you guys more of a hassle with your own B+ experience.

what? can we try it out??

 

[kupo15]

no, i was referring to the shield codes you were talking about such as low regeneration time and weaker shields. If you were referring to M canceling as you were talking about slow regen and 75% loss then sorry for missing that

 

[Horselover]

I don't really see a point in adding a Mega Crash style mechanic into Brawl+.

Bursting is a catch all technique for any infinites the developers missed in the official release. In a game like Brawl+ where it can be updated on the fly it doesn't serve much of a purpose.

 

[jalued]

no, i was referring to the shield codes you were talking about such as low regeneration time and weaker shields. If you were referring to M canceling as you were talking about slow regen and 75% loss then sorry for missing that

*has to steady heart rate*

well how are the current codes for lower regen of shields?

 

[kupo15]

What do you mean how are they?

Shield Max [spunit262]
04B88440 42480000
Default Float 50

Shield Gain [spunit262]
04B88454 3D8F5C29
Default Float 0.07

 

[jalued]

What do you mean how are they?

Shield Max [spunit262]
04B88440 42480000
Default Float 50

Shield Gain [spunit262]
04B88454 3D8F5C29
Default Float 0.07

as in how does lower regeneration contribute to the game of brawl+? what are other peoples opinions of it?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

*PLUR*, read my post like 3 above yours, lol

If anything, I'd say just leave Smash alone and let it stay as is, while refining the techniques it already has.

But yeah, I was just throwing something out there.