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Will Captain Falcon ever win a National?

Bing

Bing

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I dont think Falcon will win a National anytime soon, the highest finishing falcon was Hax at 7th and while he gets better, so do the others. Im not saying its not possible, but not within the foreseeable future.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

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tarheeljks said:
this thread is extremely counterproductive imo. causing people to ask the wrong questions. while leffen is being abrasive, he has a point
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How? Most of the Falcon mains it seems are saying they can do it, they just need to play a good deal better to do it and that it'd be difficult. How is that counterproductive?
 
T

tarheeljks

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well the op is a falcon main who is skeptical and i was partially speaking about the existence of the thread. even though most of the falcon mains (who responded to the op anyway) gave reasonable answers, there are many other posts and they can't simply be ignored.


we don't need a thread focusing on current/previous falcon mains coming up short for people to realize that it's an uphill battle. so i think this thread is counterproductive b/c it doesn't tell us anything we don't know about falcon's deficiencies (we're already aware of his faults), doesn't serve as an effective way to discuss strats to overcome said deficiencies (this would be good, but there are threads for this anyway), and could subtly undermine the effort/devotion of players (i realize some/many will think i'm reaching here)


i'm prob overstating my case when i say this b/c this is just a game in the end, but some of the opinions stated are basically toxic. mentality matters. in addition to possessing the requisite level of skill, you've got to have some persistence, arguably even stubbornness bordering on delusion (ask shroomed or kage if they think they can win a national). the title is the opposite and is already leading.

edit: i'm really not trying to grandstand, just don't see what this accomplishes. everyone recognizes that it will be difficult
 
TheGoat

TheGoat

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leffen said:
this. Even if you guys are gonna argue that OMG ARMADA ISNT A GOOD EXAMPLE PEACH IS 01831038103183018301 LIGHT YEARS BETTER THAN FALCON, please remember that it was Armada that showed you how good peach really was (noone really believed peach was this good, now people are saying shes even with fox... LOL) someone that puts in as much works as he did in peach to falcon could easily advance his metagame enough for him to look better than peach...
If a CF gets as good as Armada, it will take 1-2 months and then people are gonna change their opinions lol.

its all about the players.
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I think I'm going to agree here. Captain Falcon and peach are pretty much in the same position on the tier list in terms of matchups. Obviously they all have their own weaknesses though.
People need to stop playing falcon like spacies or some ****. Stop playing him like a top tier character. After playing someone like bowser a bit, you realize you can't "just play" other competitive players and win. You need to be a superior player and get your opponent into bad situations. If you think falcon is like bowser except: he can wavedash, he has really, REALLY good movement (crucial in this game), fast aerials, and a ******** combo game...Falcon needs to be played more conservatively and as a lower tier. See how amazing players like axe and gimpyfish have done given how bad their characters are, it's not very far fetched to imagine falcon skyrocketing.
I know its fun as hell to play an aggressive and thrilling falcon, but if someone wants to win a national something is going to have to change. My 10 cents
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

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TheGoat said:
Falcon needs to be played more conservatively and as a lower tier. See how amazing players like axe and gimpyfish have done given how bad their characters are, it's not very far fetched to imagine falcon skyrocketing.
I know its fun as hell to play an aggressive and thrilling falcon, but if someone wants to win a national something is going to have to change. My 10 cents
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Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but AXE is a bad example to use there. He plays more like a space animal main in that he can be very aggressive and employs a lot of pressure.
 
Leviathan741

Leviathan741

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Warhawk said:
Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but AXE is a bad example to use there. He plays more like a space animal main in that he can be very aggressive and employs a lot of pressure.
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Agreed. Also guys... Captain Falcon gets beat way too hard by the following: Falco, Fox, and Shiek. Sure, he has 3 bad matchups and that is about it and then a bunch of even and positive ones, but those 3 chars are played so much and **** him so hard, that it does not really matter at all.

Hell you can be a better player than someone and still lose if they play falco.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
i don't agree about falco being that bad anymore (unless u are playing bad) and only 1 person play shiek vs falcon correctly and fox, while probably falcons worst matchup is not that bad for a worst matchup
 
ryankam10

ryankam10

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s2j maybe you're just way better than all the competition? I dunno, it feels weird like. we always say 'well the very best foxes would be able to beat the very best falcons', and falco and sheik too, but you've played and beat some of the best... its kind of weird
i feel it has to be just because youre better than them... or maybe it has something to do with how intimidating falcon is. maybe that has a part to play despite the fact that on all technical aspects hes like... worse

yeah thats just me spouting some BS and theories on why top falcons now can whoop pretty much everyone
 
D

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exactly just be better, and people still being kinda bad at the game helps too
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

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s2j said:
i don't agree about falco being that bad anymore (unless u are playing bad) and only 1 person play shiek vs falcon correctly and fox, while probably falcons worst matchup is not that bad for a worst matchup
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Whoa really? Because I love playing against Falcon and think Falco destroys him pretty good (~65-35), except on final destination when I get random knee'd out of my fullhop and die at mid percent. I feel like lasers make it hard for Falcon to get in and easy for Falco to get in, and even Falco can do more damage when he gets in than Falcon can... Though I suppose Falcon does not need all that much damage to actually kill Falco.
 
D

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Warhawk said:
Whoa really? Because I love playing against Falcon and think Falco destroys him pretty good (~65-35), except on final destination when I get random knee'd out of my fullhop and die at mid percent. I feel like lasers make it hard for Falcon to get in and easy for Falco to get in, and even Falco can do more damage when he gets in than Falcon can... Though I suppose Falcon does not need all that much damage to actually kill Falco.
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FD in my opinion is falcons worst stage vs falco

also disagree with about 80% of what you said lol
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

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s2j said:
FD in my opinion is falcons worst stage vs falco

also disagree with about 80% of what you said lol
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I didn't mean that it was a great stage for him (that was more an insignificant rant about my problems on that stage) but I didn't think it was his worst... Like worse than FoD? I'd also like to hear what else you disagree with though and get your opinion on that.
 
Walt

Walt

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FoD I feel like is all about how stupid do you play when the platforms will totally **** you. If they're in a bad spot I just make pretend zoning pressure with movement and wait for the plats to change or falco to move.
 
D

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Guest
Warhawk said:
I didn't mean that it was a great stage for him (that was more an insignificant rant about my problems on that stage) but I didn't think it was his worst... Like worse than FoD? I'd also like to hear what else you disagree with though and get your opinion on that.
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getting 0 to deathed for free is to me worse than FoD

matchup is not 65-35. It's 65-35 if the falcon is not playing good/ suks dik

matchup is probably 65-35 on FD, maybe worse

laser/ getting in-out sounds correct at lower levels, but in reality if you are not making careless mistakes it is pretty tough for falco to get free hits --> death combos

and like u said damage is not too relevant, falcon lives forever/falco dies quicker

=
i also straight like FoD better because the irregular platform heights make you able to do cool combos that u can't do in other places
 
D

Deleted member

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it depends

also, i will never like FD even if I could powershield 100% because it has no platforms, just my preference but I do think its at worst an alright pick vs shiek/marth/any floaty besides icies (not so bad even then)

===

my opinions on the matchups is that fox is the worst but like i said for 50th time if fox is the worst then falcon's matchups aren't really that bad. Mango's fox playing good feels incredibly impossible (65-35 fox), everyone else, not so bad because I see exploitable flaws in every other fox I played
 
Windrose

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i've also been banning FD over FoD against falco lately.

But FoD vs fox is much worse according to s2j...I'm not sure why...
 
Citizen Snips

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Windrose said:
i've also been banning FD over FoD against falco lately.

But FoD vs fox is much worse according to s2j...I'm not sure why...
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I still feel like Fox on FD is by far Falcon's worst matchup. Fox can keep up with you and once you get grabbed or shined it's basically a stock. The same should go for Fox, but he's got a better recovery and he wins in the air :(
 
JonnyW

JonnyW

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Citizen Snips said:
I still feel like Fox on FD is by far Falcon's worst matchup. Fox can keep up with you and once you get grabbed or shined it's basically a stock. The same should go for Fox, but he's got a better recovery and he wins in the air :(
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I like FD cause its a battle of whoever gets off first. I just try to tech chase fox to high percent and follow up with stomps and knees til they die.
 
D

Deleted member

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im starting to think FoD is better than FD but its all preference

FD though is good if u have a good read/ great tech chaser but i dont like getting ***** with no hope of living
 
Windrose

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s2j, what was that one thing that made you really hate FoD vs fox if foxes know how to abuse it?

And why did your opinion change?

I know you don't want to "spill da beenz" as you said long time ago but I'm guessing you found a way to overcome this abuse by foxes on that stage?

The only thing I could really think of is when the platform is really low and foxes just stand under it and up tilt?? :S
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
yeah pretty much best fox strat: camp underneath barely raised platform
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
thats all fox has to do ! but i think i can still beat them even if they are kels level homoes
 
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