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Will Captain Falcon ever win a National?

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
i think its possible, just that skillwise other people currently beat out the top falcons
this. Even if you guys are gonna argue that OMG ARMADA ISNT A GOOD EXAMPLE PEACH IS 01831038103183018301 LIGHT YEARS BETTER THAN FALCON, please remember that it was Armada that showed you how good peach really was (noone really believed peach was this good, now people are saying shes even with fox... LOL) someone that puts in as much works as he did in peach to falcon could easily advance his metagame enough for him to look better than peach...
If a CF gets as good as Armada, it will take 1-2 months and then people are gonna change their opinions lol.

its all about the players.
 

s2j

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
4,957
i beat him in my first ever MM with him then i'm like 0-7 vs him
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
silentspectre
also, just watched s2j vs. tope
good lord, will there be ANY falcon who can take down tope? o_0
 

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Premium
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,353
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Darkrain is something like 5-1 lifetime vs Tope. It's just that his one loss was a very significant, depressing, YouTube-publicized loss at Pound 4.
 

s2j

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
4,957
I could honestly do it potentially, but I would have to change my style up a lot to something way gayer and i'm not interested in doing that
 

Metakill

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
483
Location
#MangoNation
Mango should try only Falcon in G3.
he said his Falcon > Armada
Well, he need practice to beat some Falco, Fox, Sheik and that's it.

Also, Jeff is retired or something?
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
Kinda in-between retired and active
he doesnt play as much iirc and isnt as much of a threat as he was back then
 

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
20XX
this. Even if you guys are gonna argue that OMG ARMADA ISNT A GOOD EXAMPLE PEACH IS 01831038103183018301 LIGHT YEARS BETTER THAN FALCON, please remember that it was Armada that showed you how good peach really was (noone really believed peach was this good, now people are saying shes even with fox... LOL) someone that puts in as much works as he did in peach to falcon could easily advance his metagame enough for him to look better than peach...
If a CF gets as good as Armada, it will take 1-2 months and then people are gonna change their opinions lol.

its all about the players.
yeah but you can look at peach's frame data and immediately tell that the character has ridiculous hidden potential that falcon doesn't. no matter how much falcon evolves his movement and combos are always gonna take consecutive insane reads

winning a national with falcon is a near impossible feat at this stage in melee's development, but i'll never stop trying

that being said, i'm closer to doing it than you guys think.. i haven't managed to do it yet for a couple of reasons. for the most part it's mindset/confidence-related stuff. sometimes i'll get off for the first half of a match and then tell myself i've done good enough and start to suck/lose the match (me vs PP game 2 @ genesis). other times i'll play awful for my first 3 stocks and then realize that i'm gonna lose so i go hard on my 4th stock, but by then it's already too late (me vs javi @ apex). i've always had this problem even outside of smash and i have no idea how to fix it. i don't know how to perform at 100% for the entirety of something

then there's the fact that i literally never get to play melee because it's dead over here. when we do play, we smoke and **** around in teams. people don't really wanna get better. between RoM4 and Apex 2012, i played literally once for 3 hours (3 days before apex). for the most part, my training/improvement inbetween nationals involves thinking of stuff that should work and it usually does because i have a deep understanding of the game.

still, it's no substitute for real training. i shouldn't have gotten 5th at RoM/7th at Apex having literally played the game once for a couple of hours before each tournament. imo, my gameplay was sloppy at both of them. i had a few highlights such as tearing darrell's ***hole open at rom4 (<3) and my set vs my boy jman at apex, but other than that i hate how i played in my tourney matches. at apex, 4 of my tournament sets came down to last game/last stock/last hit lol. my falcon isn't nearly as smooth as it was at genesis 2, which i got to practice a lot for.

then there's the increasingly gay playstyle that most pros have adapted that makes me absolutely hate the game. defense is taking over because it's that good, and even better against falcon; crouch-cancelling absolutely rapes him. i wasn't even surprised when Plup, the samus hbox always talks about, 4-0'd me in friendlies at Apex after crouch cancelling and refusing to jump/move forward for the entirety of the match. anything i tried to do was beaten by a perfectly spaced/timed wd back -> ftilt. take this with a grain of salt because i truthfully wasn't playing very well (not to say he isn't the best samus), but this increasingly popular strategy severely hinders falcon's chances.

i'll still have phases where i'm playing perfectly and legitimately think i can beat anyone in the world.. there were a few at some friendlies tv's at apex and during a post-apex training session with amsah and ice (not the one before apex that was streamed.. i sucked at that one lol). problem is i'll only have them during friendlies; never in tournament.

still, my peak right now is the best it's ever been. but my average was way better ~a year ago. if i can't get over this consistency issue then it's looking grim for ya boi hax$ :(
 

s2j

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
4,957
i'm still getting better at this game and notice like 10-20 fixable mistakes in all my recorded matches

until i stop getting better, not convinced that falcon can't do it

at my current level, i need a good bracket to run deep. Had a good/lucky wins bracket at genesis 2 (despite armada 2nd round). If i beat m2k, then i coulda beat shroomed, then hbox, then..

apex wasn't nearly as nice to me but its a matter of me not being good enough vs peach and not taking care of my body prior to the next day

---

plups good but never really noticed his campiness, just felt like faster hugs with better tricks
 

commonyoshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6,215
Location
dainty perfect
then there's the increasingly gay playstyle that most pros have adapted that makes me absolutely hate the game. defense is taking over because it's that good, and even better against falcon; crouch-cancelling absolutely rapes him. i wasn't even surprised when Plup, the samus hbox always talks about, 4-0'd me in friendlies at Apex after crouch cancelling and refusing to jump/move forward for the entirety of the match. anything i tried to do was beaten by a perfectly spaced/timed wd back -> ftilt. take this with a grain of salt because i truthfully wasn't playing very well (not to say he isn't the best samus), but this increasingly popular strategy severely hinders falcon's chances.
This is what my dumb friend does against me every match. I dont main falcon, but what do you think about nair into gentleman/dash dance grabs? I seem to recall, when I did play falcon once, that that worked, and as long as I got Samus into the air all I needed to do was uair for the win.

And it sucks that a player of your caliber doesn't have anyone to practice with. derp
 

kalamazhu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
450
Location
DCDS room 104
i think falcon has too many bad matchups against popular characters that his chance of winning a national are extremely low
 

Master Ppv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
271
Location
Springfield, Illinois
To put it bluntly, I think the chances are extremely low, but definitely possible if someone can make consistent, consecutive reads throughout the entire tournament. If Taj's Mewtwo, Axe's Pikachu, etc. have proved anything, it's that you can win with anyone. Like Hax and S2J, I won't ever stop trying. Although this doesn't mean **** coming from a nobody like me, I'll keep pushing myself until I'm at the level these guys are at now, and then keep pushing myself even harder from there.

Hax, I understand your situation perfectly. Until I started college this year at the University of Illinois, I was in Springfield, IL. Literally the middle of nowhere as far as competitive Smash is concerned.
 

Dulren

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
41
For Falcon to win a national, the person playing him would have to significantly out-play his opponents and that's all there is to it. Falcon is a good character, but he definitely isn't a great one. I think anyone with a decent understanding of Falcon or melee in general can recognize the paucity of options he has in any given scenario compared to Fox/Falco/Sheik/etc.
 

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
lol guys u're hilarious

"For Falcon to win a national, the person playing him would have to significantly out-play his opponents and that's all there is to it."

sigh...
just about as much as peach has to

no wait
falcon wins by PURE SKILL because he's fast and does cool combos

just stfu please, the falcon mains are just not good enough, and thats that.
tell me one falcon who even powershields falco's lasers even ****ing once >_>

no wait, why would you completely change falcons worst matchup by just practicing some more
lets complain that falcon gets ***** by people who play like ******s because falcon players never plays gay COUGHHAXCOUGH and falcon players could EASILY win every match if they just played a little gayer

I mean, so what if samus / peach players get a little better if they spam CC (even though falcon still rapes them both 60-40)
do you see them complain about "I can't jump or approach because falcon will punish that everytime with 103810381 uairs"
no, because they don't have the mindset of a ten year old like some falcon mains seem to do

stop kidding yourself please


oh, and I don't hate you guys.
I just hate your feminine side that won't stop complaining.
 

Dulren

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
41
lol guys u're hilarious

"For Falcon to win a national, the person playing him would have to significantly out-play his opponents and that's all there is to it."

sigh...
just about as much as peach has to

no wait
falcon wins by PURE SKILL because he's fast and does cool combos

just stfu please, the falcon mains are just not good enough, and thats that.
tell me one falcon who even powershields falco's lasers even ****ing once >_>

no wait, why would you completely change falcons worst matchup by just practicing some more
lets complain that falcon gets ***** by people who play like ******s because falcon players never plays gay COUGHHAXCOUGH and falcon players could EASILY win every match if they just played a little gayer

I mean, so what if samus / peach players get a little better if they spam CC (even though falcon still rapes them both 60-40)
do you see them complain about "I can't jump or approach because falcon will punish that everytime with 103810381 uairs"
no, because they don't have the mindset of a ten year old like some falcon mains seem to do

stop kidding yourself please


oh, and I don't hate you guys.
I just hate your feminine side that won't stop complaining.
So, what part of that statement actually refutes anything I said? I know we can all get better at our matchups and im sure any Falcon player who is serious about winning plans to do just that. So unless you're making a "no tiers list" type argument, not really sure what the hostility is about.

Falcon is a worse character than the other characters i mentioned (if you disagree, this is where the point of contention would be!), so by virtue of this...yeah, he's got to work harder. Of course human limitations and specific player skill are huge factors (never said they weren't), but to sit here and claim that the only thing holding back Falcon from winning a national is player skill? Delusional.
 

Aber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
276
Leffen your tendency to actively seek arguments and fights and be an angry ******* all the time is sort of getting extremely old..........I don't even read your posts any more I just see RAGE/I'M RIGHT YOUR ALL ******** AND IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE **** YOU and scroll down...........If you were a little politer maybe people would take you more seriously
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
Leffen's got a point
There's no epitome of Falcon out there who's got all the spacing, tech skill, and overall consistency down pat.
 

Aber

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
276
Leffen's got a point
There's no epitome of Falcon out there who's got all the spacing, tech skill, and overall consistency down pat.

Is there any one who has that with any character????? Seriously perfection is what players strive for but it is IMPOSSIBLE with any character in the game. Period. That being said, I think falcon's lack of survivability is why he will probably never win a national.
 

Twinkles

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
1,022
Location
SoCal
I know that true perfection is impossible
But ***, look at Armada's peach. That thing is seriously on levels above anything i'd ever seen from peach.

To use an incredibly oversimplified (possibly to the point of flagrant incorrectness lol) example, I see Jeapie has incredible tech skill that gives him a lot of options that I've never even thought of before. On the other hand, you have s2j, who doesn't do a lot of the stuff Jeapie does, but makes generally better decisions and thus ends up being the better Falcon. If s2j had Jeapie's tech skill or Jeapie had s2j's decision-making, an even better Falcon would result (hypothetically).

We don't have that Falcon though. Also consider that while this really good Falcon still doesn't exist, neither Jeapie nor s2j have pushed Falcon to the absolute human limits of what Falcon can do. So, technically, there's an even better Falcon build somewhere out there that we haven't reached yet.

I dunno, I think Falcons are actually doing prty well so I don't complain. s2j and hax take games from some big names and i see them place prty well in whatever tournament they attend
 
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