Why "splitting" in tournaments should not be allowed

[Doctor X]

Are you trying to mince words, or what? If "competitive" smash existed under some other name, would you suddenly drop your argument?

No, because we use that word to describe the scene as it exists. If we didn't use that word, we'd use another one very close in meaning to it, and if we didn't, well... then personally I wouldn't want to be involved in it. Nor would many other people. Competition is a major draw, if not *the* major draw. If nobody played to be the best then Smash would be a shadow of what it is today.

This seemed like a random jumble of thoughts, so sorry if I don't address the point you were trying to make here... but the point of a tournament is NOT to attempt to learn by watching other people play, though that may or may not be a nice side effect. The tournament exists simply for you to gauge where YOU stand. If the people on top are comfortable in their own standings, then there's no reason to expect them to waste their time and effort just to appease you with something you aren't inherently entitled to.

So wait... Everyone who learned anything from a top player is doing it wrong, then? I guess we'll have to get rid of all those Marth players who came after Ken. Oh, and shine spikes... MattDeezie did those first, right? So are we to assume everyone else just came up with that on their own?

Or SC, when Boxer bunker-rushed the **** out of Yellow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYLhOXn5rTw

Something that was always available to Terran players, of course, but Boxer was the first person to do it with such precision that it became a major part of the game that Zerg players must really alter their basic build order to deal with.

This was in semifinals, and was definitely not a crowd-pleaser. Do you think he would have done this if he had split the prize with the guy? Hell no. If he didn't do this (and nobody else did, which is possible considering Boxer invented pretty much everything Terrans do) do you think the game would be played a lot different than it is now? Well, yeah, of course it would be.

Tournaments produce this kind of insight into the game, but nobody's going to bother if they're not really playing the **** tournament, are they?

Well, this is just a fundamental disagreement then. I think that a tournament of 20 mature, reasonably aged people is immeasurably more fun than a tournament with 50 screaming 4th graders. If you don't think the same way, I don't have the capacity to "convince" you that my way is right.

Go ahead, man, if you'd rather have the scene exclude it's way into obscurity, be my guest. Say what you want about those fourth graders, they're still the ones providing the prize more often than not. Professional sponsors love those fourth graders. That's why Halo's always been so popular with MLG. Lots of obnoxious screaming kids love it.

How many things are ever "learned" simply because player X took first and player Y took second instead of the other way around? Mew2king won, therefore I discovered wavedashing!

You're reducing my argument to far less that it deserves. The matches that top players play, recorded and publicized on the boards, have a very real effect on the community. This is fact.

First off, that's a incredibly ignorant generalization for the reasons for splitting.

What other reason could there be? Friendship? Like that's any better. "I didn't want to beat him because I didn't want to hurt his feelings." Yeah, right. I'm sure people are that considerate.

Secondly, the rest of your statement doesn't make any sense. They were good enough to beat everyone else in the tournament, and yet the fact that they choose not to play each other suddenly makes them less relevant.

Well, you know, if we want to really see how the game works, we should have the top players be figuring it out. If I want to know about the MK vs. Diddy matchup, I'll want to see the best Diddy play the best MK. If the best MK and the best Diddy won't play a real **** match, that kind of makes things difficult, doesn't it?

I mean, I'd much rather listen to someone who took 1st without splitting than someone who split for 1st.

So clarify, are you supporting a "rule" against splitting, or are you just asking people to be unhappy but take no action?

Well, as you and others already said, you can't make a rule against splitting. It's like putting "don't be a jerk" in your tournament rules. However, there is of course some discouragement from being a jerk because of the way people respond to you socially. Splitting could be met the same way.

In other words, I'm asking guys like you to stop defending jerks who split. Maybe people thinking of them as jerks won't stop them, but having people defend their jerkish actions certainly does not help.

 

[Ryan-K]

What other reason could there be? Friendship? Like that's any better. "I didn't want to beat him because I didn't want to hurt his feelings." Yeah, right. I'm sure people are that considerate.

LOL People do split if they are friends sometimes, just because it's kind of dickish to take cash from your friend, putting money before friendship is kind of ridiculous lol

Also, people split because of time constraints, friendship, if the pot is too small to not even make it worth playing for, boredom, or whatever they want.

If you wanna stop splitting, make it to the top and don't split.

 

[waldo333]

Your ideals are not everyone's ideals, and as such there should be no rule against splitting. There also shouldn't be a rule FOR splitting, either, because that would be the same stupidity.

The point is, there's a dispute over whether it is wrong or not, and that dispute proves that there is a significant possibility for you to BE wrong, and so YOU shouldn't be the one making the rules to fit YOUR ideas.
This topic doesn't have large enough impacts for a change to be necessitated, even if all your ideas are correct. Something being potentially only somewhat bad for the community doesn't necessitate a rule change. Something destroying the community could, and that's why there are rules in the first place. This topic, as I've said, just isn't important enough.

This topic should be argued, but the results of the argument shouldn't mean anything drastic. Do I sense metaphor?

 

[Mogwai]

No, because we use that word to describe the scene as it exists. If we didn't use that word, we'd use another one very close in meaning to it, and if we didn't, well... then personally I wouldn't want to be involved in it. Nor would many other people. Competition is a major draw, if not *the* major draw. If nobody played to be the best then Smash would be a shadow of what it is today.

People compete for different reasons. I've played M2K, I know I'm not the best, nor will I ever be, but I still enjoy the game the community. Not everyone plays the game for whatever reason you play it.

So wait... Everyone who learned anything from a top player is doing it wrong, then? I guess we'll have to get rid of all those Marth players who came after Ken. Oh, and shine spikes... MattDeezie did those first, right? So are we to assume everyone else just came up with that on their own?

Or SC, when Boxer bunker-rushed the **** out of Yellow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYLhOXn5rTw

Something that was always available to Terran players, of course, but Boxer was the first person to do it with such precision that it became a major part of the game that Zerg players must really alter their basic build order to deal with.

This was in semifinals, and was definitely not a crowd-pleaser. Do you think he would have done this if he had split the prize with the guy? Hell no. If he didn't do this (and nobody else did, which is possible considering Boxer invented pretty much everything Terrans do) do you think the game would be played a lot different than it is now? Well, yeah, of course it would be.

Tournaments produce this kind of insight into the game, but nobody's going to bother if they're not really playing the **** tournament, are they?

You just don't seem to be getting what we're saying. Other people learning stuff is all well and good, but it isn't the reason why top players play. Your first sentence here is claiming something that Pocky is very clearly not saying. Pocky was saying that the desire to teach lesser players isn't WHY they play. Sure, it happens and there's nothing wrong with it, but it's distinctly a side effect. Top players play to win money, prestige, prove something to themselves, find god, get laid, whatever, but they aren't playing to teach you, even if they accidentally do. I don't get what was so hard to understand about this...

Go ahead, man, if you'd rather have the scene exclude it's way into obscurity, be my guest. Say what you want about those fourth graders, they're still the ones providing the prize more often than not. Professional sponsors love those fourth graders. That's why Halo's always been so popular with MLG. Lots of obnoxious screaming kids love it.

lol, wait, what? SERIOUSLY? Are you now saying **** the composition of the community, for the money?

Splitting is putting the money before the community.

please please PUHHH-LEEEEEEES, explain to me how pandering to obnoxious people that no one wants to be around for the sake of pumping the pot is not putting money before the community!?

You're reducing my argument to far less that it deserves. The matches that top players play, recorded and publicized on the boards, have a very real effect on the community. This is fact.

Do you not get hyperbole? he's blowing it out of proportion for the sake of showing how silly your argument is. And he's right. How does getting 2nd instead of 1st invalidate someone's advice?

What other reason could there be? Friendship? Like that's any better. "I didn't want to beat him because I didn't want to hurt his feelings." Yeah, right. I'm sure people are that considerate.

They sure are. Money can really **** friendships up and I know a lot of people split for the sake of not taking chances with their friendships. Again, I don't really understand why this is so difficult for you to get...

Well, you know, if we want to really see how the game works, we should have the top players be figuring it out. If I want to know about the MK vs. Diddy matchup, I'll want to see the best Diddy play the best MK. If the best MK and the best Diddy won't play a real **** match, that kind of makes things difficult, doesn't it?

I mean, I'd much rather listen to someone who took 1st without splitting than someone who split for 1st.

Splitting happens at the grand finals level, there are still plenty of other "serious" matches for you to watch. And again, the top players are not there for your amusement, they play for themselves and whatever reasons they want, but they aren't entitled to entertain you.

Well, as you and others already said, you can't make a rule against splitting. It's like putting "don't be a jerk" in your tournament rules. However, there is of course some discouragement from being a jerk because of the way people respond to you socially. Splitting could be met the same way.

In other words, I'm asking guys like you to stop defending jerks who split. Maybe people thinking of them as jerks won't stop them, but having people defend their jerkish actions certainly does not help.

Frankly, you are much more of a jerk for criticizing what other people do with their money and time than anyone who splits. In fact, most of the jerks that I know who play smash don't split... Please stop stating your opinion as fact, not everyone thinks that splitters are inherently jerks.

 

[Doctor X]

please please PUHHH-LEEEEEEES, explain to me how pandering to obnoxious people that no one wants to be around for the sake of pumping the pot is not putting money before the community!?

I just want to answer this question, because I think the point I as I communicated it kinda makes me look like a ****-- but otherwise I'm leaving this be because it's not going anywhere. You give me **** for talking to people like they're not understanding what I'm saying and then you say the same thing directly to me. This whole thing's pretty much done.

But yeah, professionalism and spectacle come with larger followings and higher stakes. Sponsors have to get the money from somewhere, they don't just advertise things for no reason. Better it be the obnoxious people than nobody at all, and the community will benefit by having professional backing.

I mean, really, on one hand you say that professional gaming will never go anywhere because of social stigma, but then you talk about how you want to exclude the majority of people who are willing to look past that stigma because they're not up to your standards as tolerable human beings. You complain about how there isn't much new blood in the Melee scene, but certainly nobody new is going to want to play Melee if you've got people telling them they're annoying and trying to get rid of them.

I mean really, you were calling me an idealist? A perfect scene would have no obnoxious people, right. But seriously... people in large groups are always obnoxious. Always. They're loud, inconsiderate, impatient, they refuse to follow rules, they throw their garbage everywhere and they steal ****. It's a necessary evil you've got to deal with if you care at all about having a turnout over like... 10.

I had a tournament of only 30 people at my house-- average age easily above 18-- and someone almost burnt the place down. Twice. I have absolutely no faith that this kind of **** will not happen again unless I go to great lengths to prevent it next time (which I will), but really... Even if they're all cool people individually, putting them all in one place makes things a huge hassle. If I kicked out everyone that annoyed me at some point I'd cut my attendance easily in half, probably more since people wouldn't be able to get cars full enough to make it worth the gas. And *those* people would be bored because there's a lower turnout, less competition, smaller prizes, more predictable results, fewer matches, far more difficult brackets with less room to progress.

Say what you want about noobs, but they have their role to fill. Not everybody can be above average. Some people have to fill in the bottom-- wouldn't you rather it be the annoying kid who expects to do well without putting forth any real work than the down-to-earth guy who tries his best but still winds up in last because everyone else there tried just a little bit harder, or simply had more talent?

Again, this whole thing is circular. Including more people literally grows the community, and that growth leads to involving more players who may, just may, be valuable contributors beyond just getting crushed and whining about it. There will be some inconviences in separating the wheat from the chaff, but unfortunately you can't grow the wheat without the chaff.

Edit:

Other people learning stuff is all well and good, but it isn't the reason why top players play.

Oh yeah, and I never said it was. It is, however, the reason top players garner a following and hence, community. When someone beats M2K in the grand finals (and the pot isn't split to dull the results), people care to hear about it. That's a key part of a strong following for a game.

 

[Narukari]

Oh yeah, and I never said it was. It is, however, the reason top players garner a following and hence, community. When someone beats M2K in the grand finals (and the pot isn't split to dull the results), people care to hear about it. That's a key part of a strong following for a game.

Rarely do people learn anything from the finals at a tournament. The tournament is not where you see a technique/strategy appear. Generally you will see it on the character specific boards and they will discuss it heavily before people even start to think about using it in a tournament match. A tech is old news by the time someone gets proficient enough to use it in a tournament match.


Other unrelated stuff:

About smash gaining momentum as a competitive platform. It isn't going to happen.

1. There is a huge stigma associated with gaming up to and including mass murder, ****, theft, etc...

We have a kind lil lawyer to thank for most of this crap the gaming community has to deal with.

2. Nobody knows the ball players.

We will start gaining sponsors once companies have anything to gain by sponsoring someone. I doubt anybody would buy Ken M2K action figure (There is actually a possibility of a Ken action figure thanks to survivor) outside of people on Smashboards.

3. Smash just isn't that exciting to watch.

Sure the casual matches look like an epic fight, but at high levels the game just loses its flair. Two characters are just attempting to space correctly to land a hit. While to people who play smash this might get you excited, but to most people its about as dull as watching paint dry.

4. We are adjusting the game to make it playable at a high competitive standard.

At least when people at our college dorm see some of our tournaments. They are turned off by the fact that we aren't using items, stages are banned, we only do 1v1, and pretty much everybody picks from the same roster of 4 characters (MK, DDD, Snake, GaW). While smash players understand why these things are the way they are, spectators feel that we aren't "playing the game the way it was meant to be played". One person actually accused the TO of having these rules so that he would have an advantage.

5. No uniform community/ruleset

As goes with the adjusting of the rules to fit a standard. Different regions make different changes to the game. We have items, MK, melee, Chainthrow, stages, and other things that split the already small community that smash has.


When you look at this, splitting is not even touching the surface. People generally aren't splitting because they don't think they can win the finals. They do it because generally the best players generally flock together. The people who practice with M2K will be better at smash than people who practice with Joe Six Pack. When these close friends end up in the finals, neither one of them wants to cause the other to walk away from the tournament with less money, so they split.

 

[TheManaLord]

person above me is a ****** and that is all.

 

[DippnDots]

seriously i dont think i agreed with a single thing he said

edit:
Next time just post this if you want to say something silly
http://sg.video.yahoo.com/watch/3186121

 

[Narukari]

heh, I got a little laugh from the alpacas, but seriously, my examples are just what I see and hear when the whole "gaming as a competitive franchise" comes up. I'm sure there are many others, but these are the main ones I see. I don't see how you could disagree with the stigma that is associated with games, and that the only target audience would be competitive smash players. That just isn't big enough to warrant sponsors.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't see how you could disagree with the stigma that is associated with games, and that the only target audience would be competitive smash players. That just isn't big enough to warrant sponsors.

See the underlined text.

MLG would like to have a word with you.

Edit: I know you're entitled to an opinion, but Smash is unexciting to watch at high levels because of redundancy? Wow. Just...wow. Doesn't everything become repetitive after a while?



Smooth Criminal

 

[Narukari]

Yes, MLG is a great step towards making gaming a spectator event, but even then they have to encompass everything in gaming to get a big enough niche, but MLG does sponsor gaming teams so you got me there. (I was thinking more of smash than gaming in general, but I still think MLG sponsors smash players/teams.)

I personally really enjoy watching tournament matches on youtube, but that is because I can recognize how the game is being played. I can see the two players pitting their best against each other resulting in one winner. The problem is that most people who watch a brawl/melee match can't see those things in the match. They lack the experience to notice the advanced maneuvers that the players use against each other. This makes the game start to look like any casual match to someone who doesn't understand what they are seeing.

*bad sports analogy*

When we sit down and watch a soccer game during the holidays with the family, everyone can see the skills that are used when the game is being played, because we all use the same motor functions. They are able to see the players out on the field and say "wow, thats impressive, I could never do that".

The general populous can just understand the physical stress on the players in a sport than the mental stress on a smash player in a tournament finals match.

*end bad sports analogy*

Whenever my friends/family that don't play smash watch me in a tournament, or look over my shoulder at youtube videos, they usually have some comment like "why would you watch a recording when you can play the game right behind you."

Thanks for responding to my post though, I much prefer being proven wrong than just having 1-line insults.


edit:

After taking a look at the MLG gaming site, they have taking competitive gaming much further than I expected. Hopefully they will be able to get gaming into more of a spectator event than it currently is..

 

[Sonicdahedgie]

Sorry for butting in without reading the other pages, but I just wanted to offer a suggestion...


Both player write down if they want to split or not on a sheet of paper. A simple yes or no. Both players hand the paper to the TO without letting the other player see the sheet of paper. After the match, the TO tells if both players agreed to splitting or not.
____________

If you complain that this doesn't help because most splitters are friends, well tough luck. They're splitting anyways. If they're friends, they're gonna try and kick each other's *** for the bragging rights at least. Otherwise, people will fight their hardest, since they're unaware if they will actually split or not.

 

[pockyD]

Sorry for butting in without reading the other pages, but I just wanted to offer a suggestion...


Both player write down if they want to split or not on a sheet of paper. A simple yes or no. Both players hand the paper to the TO without letting the other player see the sheet of paper. After the match, the TO tells if both players agreed to splitting or not.
____________

If you complain that this doesn't help because most splitters are friends, well tough luck. They're splitting anyways. If they're friends, they're gonna try and kick each other's *** for the bragging rights at least. Otherwise, people will fight their hardest, since they're unaware if they will actually split or not.

the whole point is that they're going to split anyway, so that a facade of not splitting is really just insulting to everyone else

let them split

 

[JesiahTEG]

Just to restate this so people don't get the wrong idea, because I've been receiving IM's about this from people, I don't mind the actual splitting of money. People can do whatever they want with it. What I do find disrespectful however, is sandbagging in the finals of tournaments. This generally happens when people split money, so that's the only reason I dislike the actual splitting of money, because it encourages lame finals.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

the whole point is that they're going to split anyway, so that a facade of not splitting is really just insulting to everyone else

let them split

yeah seriously.
you can't prevent people from splitting if they wanted to.
this thread should really be about why it isn't good for competition or whatever,
not why it should be banned.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

Anyone who wants to ban splitting simply is wrong.

The reality is that it is impossible to ban it, and it encourages under the table splitting. Nothing is worse than people playing fake matches and pretending that it matters.

Splitting is good for tournaments because it prevents people from intentionally throwing matches. The end.

 

[yummynbeefy]

you have a good point its true what you are saying though its pretty much impossible to make a living off of playing this game and besides runner up usually gets money too just not as much

 

[TK Wolf]

I think I have a more important question here:

Why is the prize difference between 1st and 2nd place so friggin huge? From what I've seen, smash tournaments are SO top-heavy, it's nuts. In a tournament with 100+ people, the top 3 shouldn't be the only ones getting prizes, and there definitely shouldn't be such a huge gap between 1st and 2nd (I've seen many where there is a 50% of the pot difference).

Fix that and people will be less likely to split, IMO.


But on a side note, I do feel that if people split, they should still play out the match. I'd be disappointed if I paid to enter and watch a tournament, but the finals never happened.

 

[Narukari]

But on a side note, I do feel that if people split, they should still play out the match. I'd be disappointed if I paid to enter and watch a tournament, but the finals never happened.

I agree with you 100% on everything you said except a little about this. If people were paying to spectate the tournament, then everyone had better expect to play out the tournament to the best of their ability, because some of the prize money is coming from the spectators.

My question is, did you pay to spectate the tournament, or did you pay to compete in the tournament. I feel there is a big difference in these two different situations. If all the prize money is coming from the people competing, then none of the competitors need to do anything for the sole entertainment of the other people. If money in the prize pool came from spectators, then the competitors do have an obligation to entertain the spectators who paid to watch matches.

 

[TK Wolf]

My question is, did you pay to spectate the tournament, or did you pay to compete in the tournament.

Can't it be both?

Spectating is technically free, but it's kinda part of the package when you pay to compete.

 

[shadowrock]

haha i find it funny how M2k completely disregards the topic and talks about the money he's lost through splitting

It cant be banned no way to stop people from doing what they want.

It all comes down to how much respect the people watching, whether or not they play seriously

 

[Mogwai]

haha i find it funny how M2k completely disregards the topic and talks about the money he's lost through splitting

It cant be banned no way to stop people from doing what they want.

It all comes down to how much respect the people watching, whether or not they play seriously

well, tbh, I don't think M2K is against people splitting, he just looks back on it and realizes that since Smash is his primary source of income and he's so damn busted at it, he shouldn't have been splitting all this time.

 

[Pakman]

I am bored and want to bring up an argument.

There have been arguments about people unfamiliar with the game but potentially interested not being able to understand or care about smash vids because 1.) they don't recognize the skill involved and 2.) they don't approve of the ruleset.

I have a possible solution to the 1st problem.

Granted it isn't as effective as a physical sportscast, commentary has recently been available for some high profile matches in tournaments. Commentary adds a lot. There are two major things it does. First, it adds a little explanations to the match. I imagine the commentators feel like they are stating the obvious a lot, but it really adds A LOT of information to people unfamiliar with the scene. Commentary allows the less knowledgeable viewer have a point of reference.

But secondly and more importantly, commentary shows the hype and excitement of the community. I am sure many of you have seen the Daigo vs Justin Wong 3rd Stike evo moment where he parries the whole attack and does a combo finish. After watching that, don't you wish you were Daigo. Watch it without sound and see if you feel the same way.

Watch the Wombo combo without sound and then watch it with sound. It is a completely different sensation.

The gist of what I am saying is that without explanation, smash is confusing to people ignorant of the scene. Commentary is a great way to get this group more interested.

Now if a finals match is recorded with commentary it gives the players an incentive to play well. They want to be the smash Daigo. They want their own wombo combo. No one wants to look like a ****** on youtube. I think this would lessen the amount of sandbagging in finals matches that were split.

 

[TK Wolf]

Commentary adds a lot. I was watching a live stream from a recent tourney and it was FUN because of the commentators. It was also awesome that they were watching and responding to the chatroom for the stream.

 

[Oracle]

Commentary adds a huge amount. It makes the videos seem more interesting, as well as making the community seem even better.

 

[ZesuBen]

Point seen.

But splitting should not be banned. What people do with their money is up to them. :/ But maybe punish the players by docking the grand prize for a match deemed a joke match by an official? Obviously this would only work for bigger tournaments, as lots of people would complain about the decision were the officials to declare any match at all a joke match, but... I dunno. :/ Think about it, I'm going to come up with things that don't suck for next time.

Edit: And this topic is very old.

 

[Raistlin]

Splitting doesn't necessarily take away from the players' efforts. The set between Shiz and M2K, which many, many people have seen and is a SICK *** set was done AFTER they had already decided to split.

 

[TK Wolf]

People should go 45:55 instead of splitting! :D

 

[betterthanbonds9]

............this topic isn't about the financial reasons of splitting. This topic is about how splitting can make some really stupid finals.

Go ahead split the money after the tournament, but go into the match thinking "I NEED TO WIN THIS MATCH" not "Well, i already made money, ggs guys"

heck, i dont care if the guy that wins ends up giving all their money to some random dude on the street afterwards, as long as the match is fine, good. Some matches that are pre-split are good, but i think jesiah brings up a good point that what people really want to see are the 2 best players going up against each other at their bests.

 

[pockyD]

the two go hand in hand though... if there's nothing on the line, you can't "force" someone to play as if there were

 

[betterthanbonds9]

dont tell the other person you're gonna split, even if the other person thinks you will, at least keep that uncertainty in the air

 

[pockyD]

how does that make any sense?

splitting is mutual to begin with; it's not the decision of one person, so both parties are aware when a split is going to happen

 

[Endless Nightmares]

What tournament was streamed yesterday? Fiction and DEHF couldn't split because the cash was in gift card form. So they played their hardest and the matches were definitely better than if they would've split. In fact I think grand finals would not have even existed if they had split because of how tired everyone was and how late it was.

 

[M15t3R E]

Jesiah, has it ever occurred to you that if splitting was not allowed, the winner and runner-up would just split outside of the tournament? You really can't stop splitting.

 

[Omni]

This subject has been brought up and discussed before.

The point is that everyone plays the game for different reasons. The tournament scene isn't "made" in a way that forces players to entertain viewers. When you give the director your $10, you're paying to compete for a percentage of a pot. That's it. You don't deserve anything else. You're not entitled any more rights. Everything from that point on is a privilege.

The problem is that players create this fantasy of the gaming world where everything is epic, intense, and overwhelming. That's not reality. For some, being a professional gamer is a hobby. For others its just another source of income.

Because this is still the only right answer.

 

[AfroQT]

What would you do if someone just posted in the thread:

"Im secretly gay"

How would you handle that?




































<--Is against splitting

 

[JesiahTEG]

Hey guys, wouldn't that have been awesome if Ally, M2K and Spam split top 3 @ COT4 and didn't play it out?

 

[Omni]

Stop beating a dead horse, Jesiah. C'mon.

 

[JesiahTEG]

It's not that dead dude. Tournaments will still go on, and people will stop splitting. You made a good point, in fact an irrefutable point that I think about all the time. You're completely right too, and I'm glad you presented that perspective to me. You know which post I'm talking about, I just don't feel like going back and looking for it.

Fact is though, what is ACTUALLY, by the books, technically correct doesn't mean it has to happen. Sure, we don't pay to see finals, and we pay just for a chance to compete at the pot. And you're right, it ends there. But does that really mean just because you have the right to split means you should do it?

Also, not to mention our community is becoming even more and more of a joke. Tournaments are anti climactic with splits, no videos anymore. I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done if we EVER want a chance at MLG again.

 

[DanGR]

I split a pot last Saturday, but we asked everyone around us if we should still play out grand finals. No one was opposed to us just stopping right there, so we left. It was late, and we had a 3 hour drive back home. Is that alright by your book Jesiah?