Why do people NOW care about Roy and Mewtwo?

[woopyfrood]

0_0

I don't know about you all when you see these... but I just **** brick after brick. Okay, so they're not official or anything, but, in the words of the creator, "these are for the fans".

Dr. Mario...
Roy...
and
Mewtwo.

Too cool. Fightin' for the cause!... in a subliminal kind of way.

-_- A bit of blue fur is showing on Mewtwo...

 

[Steelia]

-_- A bit of blue fur is showing on Mewtwo...

LMAO.
I noticed that at the last second.
Ah, well. There's always the improved version of him on the cover art made by said person... which I'd have to say looks amazingly authentic, if we could only get a full body shot. ;_;

Lucario: Trick or treat! Happy Hallowee- *shot*
Mewtwo: What do you think you're doing on MY doorstep, you!?

 

[SuperLink9]

Mewtwo's not evil though. Probably the most annoying thing about Melee Mewtwo is that he was based on the Anime Mewtwo (who wasn't evil anyway, and was good for a whole movie, a mini movie, and a few minutes of one movie, that's more time than he was bad for. )

Just look at Sonic and Falcon mains. Those guys are never gonna give up. Who cares if a character is bad.

:3 Yay for Sonic. (I love playing as him)

I loved playing as Mewtwo aswell.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Mewtwo sucking is not his fault and is not a valid reason for him to not be included. Falco only came back because he was top tier, which is utterly ridiculous. Switch around Falco and Mewtwo's tier positions. I guarantee you we'd have Mewtwo in Brawl over Falco.

Original moveset > Clone

 

[SonicX580]

To tell you the truth technically Roy and Mewtwo are sort of in brawl Roy is replaced with Ike and Mewtwo with Lucario that's what I think.

 

[woopyfrood]

To tell you the truth technically Roy and Mewtwo are sort of in brawl Roy is replaced with Ike and Mewtwo with Lucario that's what I think.

That's not technically. People are annoyed because they shouldn't have been replaced at all. They should've been kept and improved.

Also, Falco was a clone of Fox, and Fox was high-tier so thus his clone would obviously be high-tier, thus ensuring Falco staying in the next Smash, and pretty much immortalizing him in the series.

Marth was also high-tier, Roy was a clone of him, was why was Roy not kept and luigified? It's not fair to Roy.

The only thing Mewtwo was a clone of is a non-playable character. He shouldn't have been cut.

 

[unwelc0med]

the roy and mewtwo pics were scary.

 

[kuro06]

That's not technically. People are annoyed because they shouldn't have been replaced at all. They should've been kept and improved.

Also, Falco was a clone of Fox, and Fox was high-tier so thus his clone would obviously be high-tier, thus ensuring Falco staying in the next Smash, and pretty much immortalizing him in the series.

Marth was also high-tier, Roy was a clone of him, was why was Roy not kept and luigified? It's not fair to Roy.

The only thing Mewtwo was a clone of is a non-playable character. He shouldn't have been cut.

Falco stayed because mainly because of his importance rather than being an high-tier character. Roy from what's been said isn't a popular character in Japan and only got in because of some marketing thing or w/e so he was kicked for that. Clones have been around since 64 so it should be expected that we will have some in the next smash.

Mewtwo being cut was more than likely had to do with gamefreak so it really depends on them if mewtwo makes a return or not. But even if he did I wouldn't be surprised if a few other characters get removed next game since these things are common.

 

[woopyfrood]

Characters really shouldn't be cut...each and every one has a fan-base.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Falco has zero importance. Krystal and Wolf are far more important. Falco stayed because of his popularity in Smash from being high tier. Fact. Switch mewtwo and Falco's tier positions in Melee and it'd also switch which one was cut from Brawl due to the massive amounts of popularity it would affect.

It really is sad popularity is so dependant on tiers. It's ridiculously pathetic.

 

[woopyfrood]

Falco has zero importance. Krystal and Wolf are far more important. Falco stayed because of his popularity in Smash from being high tier. Fact. Switch mewtwo and Falco's tier positions in Melee and it'd also switch which one was cut from Brawl due to the massive amounts of popularity it would affect.

It really is sad popularity is so dependant on tiers. It's ridiculously pathetic.

I'm going to have to agree that Krystal should've been in. She would've been an original Staff(weapon)/Magic user hybrid. Of course, everyone knows the main reason she should've been in is MOAR FEMALE REPS LOLOLOLOL HAWT.

Wolf has hardly (if ever) been out of his wolfen, so you have to give 'em credit for making him less of a clone than Falco.

But yeah. Tiers shouldn't really matter. Playing low-tiers can be a good challenge for an expert smasher, and that's exactly what Mewtwo was meant for. He was difficult to unlock, and difficult to master. Truly meant as a challenge, but sadly not built competitively at all. However, if you DID play competitively...well...you all know how awesome it is to PWN people with bottom tiers

 

[flyinfilipino]

Falco has zero importance. Krystal and Wolf are far more important. Falco stayed because of his popularity in Smash from being high tier. Fact. Switch mewtwo and Falco's tier positions in Melee and it'd also switch which one was cut from Brawl due to the massive amounts of popularity it would affect.

It really is sad popularity is so dependant on tiers. It's ridiculously pathetic.

Tiers are dependent on popularity.

 

[Steelia]

Tiers are dependent on popularity.

I doubt that. Look at Mewtwo. Look at Link. Heck, look at Captain Falcon! How many people have you seen complain that he's considered the Bottom Tier of Brawl? "Darn you, Sakurai! Bring back his manliness and awesome Falcon Punching power!" Something along those lines.

It's true. What makes the character popular is how they're listed as a tier. Falco and Marth gained much popularity due to their placements. Before, Mewtwo was highly regarded as a Pokemon and a character in general. His placement as a tier? Completely soils his name. Nowadays, you actually see people bashing him, when before they were supportive of him. It's sad.

 

[SuperLink9]

Mewtwo would have been in Brawl INSTEAD of Lucario or PT. They would never remove Pikachu or Jigglypuff, but in Brawl it's pretty clear to me that each series was limited to a maximum of 4 reps (with the Mario universe expanded into seperate worlds because Donkey Kong, Yoshi and Wario all have their own series')

So if Mewtwo wasn't in Brawl, we wouldn't have either Lucario or PT, and personally I think they're excellent character ideas.

As much as I miss Mewtwo, it's a bit of a problem.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I doubt that. Look at Mewtwo. Look at Link. Heck, look at Captain Falcon! How many people have you seen complain that he's considered the Bottom Tier of Brawl? "Darn you, Sakurai! Bring back his manliness and awesome Falcon Punching power!" Something along those lines.

It's true. What makes the character popular is how they're listed as a tier. Falco and Marth gained much popularity due to their placements. Before, Mewtwo was highly regarded as a Pokemon and a character in general. His placement as a tier? Completely soils his name. Nowadays, you actually see people bashing him, when before they were supportive of him. It's sad.

I'm not talking about popularity outside of Smash, I'm talking about within Smash. If the character is good, more people will use that character. This leads to placing more/higher in tournaments, more people getting good with that character, and then a higher tier placement.

Of course, this doesn't help Mewtwo's case, but some people are getting it backwards.

 

[SuperLink9]

Mewtwo had loads of fans within Smash, as Link, Captain Falcon and Sonic do in Brawl.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Mewtwo had loads of fans within Smash, as Link, Captain Falcon and Sonic do in Brawl.

His slow, weak, floaty playstyle obviously wasn't that great back in Melee days.

 

[kuro06]

Falco has zero importance. Krystal and Wolf are far more important. Falco stayed because of his popularity in Smash from being high tier. Fact. Switch mewtwo and Falco's tier positions in Melee and it'd also switch which one was cut from Brawl due to the massive amounts of popularity it would affect.

It really is sad popularity is so dependant on tiers. It's ridiculously pathetic.

False, Falco has importance to the Starfox series since he is a main character to the franchise yes Krstal and wolf are important yes, but neither of them were around since the start of the series. Next to Fox, Falco was the main fighter of their group. So tell me how does he have ZERO importance to the series? Falco was a good character that's why he was high tier. Even if you switched mewtwo for falco he would have stilled stayed in the game period. Mr. Game and Watch was bottom tier and he had a low fanbase yet he returned as a top-tier character (and he's better than falco, tier wise).

Tier lists has more to do with popularity, tiers also have to do with how each character stats and match-ups ,fact. I've said it before..tiers have been around in every fighting game smash is no different. The only way not to have a tier list if every character in smash for now in is the EXACT same in every way. I don't get your deal with trying to get rid of falco simply because he was a clone ( a good one too). Before the cuts were made both Mewtwo and Falco were already in fact. Gamefreak wanted Lucario in the game since he became a hit this generation because of his popularity from the games and the movie. Mewtwo was cut then NOT because of some silly reason like he was bottom tier.

 

[SuperLink9]

His slow, weak, floaty playstyle obviously wasn't that great back in Melee days.

No but he still had many fans, and I don't know about you but I personally still found him fun to play as.

 

[urdailywater]

I'm not mad about Roy or Mewtwo, but I will always miss Pichu.

Always and forever =/

 

[choknater]

roy is garbage lmao

 

[flyinfilipino]

No but he still had many fans, and I don't know about you but I personally still found him fun to play as.

So did I, but still, that's because I like a struggle....

 

[Zylar]

Honestly, it is because you can't have em that you want em.
THAT'S why.

I miss pichu too, even though it hurt itself so much. *sniff*

 

[SMBEffect]

They were low tier characters people thought they could significantly improve upon.

But teh firez! XD

 

[AetherLord]

Falco has zero importance. Krystal and Wolf are far more important. Falco stayed because of his popularity in Smash from being high tier. Fact. Switch mewtwo and Falco's tier positions in Melee and it'd also switch which one was cut from Brawl due to the massive amounts of popularity it would affect.

It really is sad popularity is so dependant on tiers. It's ridiculously pathetic.

If that's true then why did they keep bottom-tier Mr. G&W?

 

[Eva01]

IMO, they did a good job with the inclusions but I still prefer Mewtwo over Lucario. His awesomeness scale goes to 11. But then again I'm still living in 1st gen. Pokemon land and try to pretend anything past that doesn't exist.

Ike>Roy>Marth
Mewtwo>PT>Pikachu>Pichu>Lucario>>>>>>>>>>Jiggs

 

[woopyfrood]

Gamefreak wanted Lucario in the game since he became a hit this generation because of his popularity from the games and the movie. Mewtwo was cut then NOT because of some silly reason like he was bottom tier.

I still get the feeling tiers had something to do with it.

All I'm sayin' is that if Mewtwo had been high-tier, he would've stayed fo' sho', because Sakurai would argue that "they couldn't get away with removing a high-tier character" or something like that when Lucario threatened to take his spot.

 

[cjrocker]

Do people honestly think Sakurai cares about tiers?

 

[Eva01]

Do people honestly think Sakurai cares about tiers?

I entirely agree, Sakurai cares very little about tiers if at all. His choices are entirely his own and just attempt to bring variety and originality to the game. Like what was said earlier, if tiers mattered than why would G&W still be hanging around.

 

[woopyfrood]

Do people honestly think Sakurai cares about tiers?

One wouldn't think he would, but it's obvious it can influence his choices. That's why a bunch of top-tiers were nerfed and low-tiers buffed. It's obvious he uses the tier lists to help balance characters.

Game & Watch stayed in because he was the super-funky-retro-character of Melee. He also stayed because he's kickass. He didn't really deserve to be in Smash, but they wanted a funky retro character that was even weirder than the Ice-Climbers, and they got Mr. Game.

You see, once MGAW was in, there was no getting him out. The argument for him is tremendous.
I think the same should go for Mewtwo.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

I loved Mewtwo. One of the reasons I still play Melee is because of Mewtwo. I would buy Smash 4 for any price if they brought back Mewtwo.

Roy? He just happened to be lucky enough to get paid attention to next to Mewtwo.

Mewtwo was the only character removed from the transition from Melee to Brawl who had an original moveset.

I think Sakurai just doesn't like Mewtwo, or thought Lucario would be perfect to replace him.

Sakurai knows nothing if my theory is correct.

 

[flyinfilipino]

One wouldn't think he would, but it's obvious it can influence his choices. That's why a bunch of top-tiers were nerfed and low-tiers buffed. It's obvious he uses the tier lists to help balance characters.

*looks at Falco*

No, it's not obvious. We acknowledge the fact that the Pokemon Company might have had something to do with it, but as soon as someone mentions "tiers", that all goes out the window. Lost cause.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

IMO, they did a good job with the inclusions but I still prefer Mewtwo over Lucario. His awesomeness scale goes to 11. But then again I'm still living in 1st gen. Pokemon land and try to pretend anything past that doesn't exist.

Ike>Roy>Marth
Mewtwo>PT>Pikachu>Pichu>Lucario>>>>>>>>>>Jiggs

Oh come on.. let 2nd Gen. in--they disserve it.

 

[woopyfrood]

*looks at Falco*

Some characters get past, of course XD

 

[MasterWarlord]

False, Falco has importance to the Starfox series since he is a main character to the franchise yes Krstal and wolf are important yes, but neither of them were around since the start of the series. Next to Fox, Falco was the main fighter of their group. So tell me how does he have ZERO importance to the series? Falco was a good character that's why he was high tier. Even if you switched mewtwo for falco he would have stilled stayed in the game period. Mr. Game and Watch was bottom tier and he had a low fanbase yet he returned as a top-tier character (and he's better than falco, tier wise).

Tier lists has more to do with popularity, tiers also have to do with how each character stats and match-ups ,fact. I've said it before..tiers have been around in every fighting game smash is no different. The only way not to have a tier list if every character in smash for now in is the EXACT same in every way. I don't get your deal with trying to get rid of falco simply because he was a clone ( a good one too). Before the cuts were made both Mewtwo and Falco were already in fact. Gamefreak wanted Lucario in the game since he became a hit this generation because of his popularity from the games and the movie. Mewtwo was cut then NOT because of some silly reason like he was bottom tier.

More data of Mewtwo would be on the disc if he was in. They wouldn't cut a totally completed character. Gamefreak doesn't want Mewtwo to be out, they just demand that Lucario has to be in first. Mewtwo doesn't hurt them by any means, he just doesn't help them as much as Lucario.

As for Falco's importance, how is he more important then Slippy or Peppy? Peppy has a more important role in the story, especially considering he was a part of James' team. It'd be easier to remove Falco from the story then it would Peppy, Krystal, or Wolf. Falco was picked out of the group based on popularity, not importance. Falco does nothing that makes him stand out from the rest of Fox's team, he's always just been that generic hot headed guy. I don't give a **** that he was good in Smash. Would you want Pichu back if he were top tier?

For popularity determing tiers. . .LOL. The only proof I'm going to give is Ike. Have you not seen how incredibly spammed he is everywhere? Probably the single most used character in the game. Yet he's only mid tier. Captain Falcon is also far more popular then bottom tier. Everyone worships him as the god of manliness.

If Mewtwo got in instead of anyone, it'd be Jigglypuff, not Lucario. Jigglypuff was added late in development. All the proof you need is that she doesn't have a real role in the SSE, alongside Toon Link, Wolf, and Sonic (Right before the final boss /=/ real SSE role. He's on their level.). All Jiggs has is japanese popularity and Smash seniority. Not that I think Mewtwo should've been in instead of Jiggs, not matter how much I prefer him.

Oh, and Mr. Game & Watch will never leave. Why? Because he's very easy to make in the graphical and sound departments. If I were Sakurai, I'd make him first due to how easy it is to create him to test the game engine with.

 

[woopyfrood]

On tiers determining popularity: Look at Meta-Knight. He's absolute tippy-top-tier...but people who use him are looked DOWN upon because of that...

Just thought I'd randomly throw that in there.

Also, Captain Falcon may have a lot of bad match-ups, maybe beaten in aerial game, maybe beaten in grab game, but there is not ONE character that can stand up to the Captain's Taunt Game.

 

[kuro06]

More data of Mewtwo would be on the disc if he was in. They wouldn't cut a totally completed character. Gamefreak doesn't want Mewtwo to be out, they just demand that Lucario has to be in first. Mewtwo doesn't hurt them by any means, he just doesn't help them as much as Lucario.

As for Falco's importance, how is he more important then Slippy or Peppy? Peppy has a more important role in the story, especially considering he was a part of James' team. It'd be easier to remove Falco from the story then it would Peppy, Krystal, or Wolf. Falco was picked out of the group based on popularity, not importance. Falco does nothing that makes him stand out from the rest of Fox's team, he's always just been that generic hot headed guy. I don't give a **** that he was good in Smash. Would you want Pichu back if he were top tier?

For popularity determing tiers. . .LOL. The only proof I'm going to give is Ike. Have you not seen how incredibly spammed he is everywhere? Probably the single most used character in the game. Yet he's only mid tier. Captain Falcon is also far more popular then bottom tier. Everyone worships him as the god of manliness.

If Mewtwo got in instead of anyone, it'd be Jigglypuff, not Lucario. Jigglypuff was added late in development. All the proof you need is that she doesn't have a real role in the SSE, alongside Toon Link, Wolf, and Sonic (Right before the final boss /=/ real SSE role. He's on their level.). All Jiggs has is japanese popularity and Smash seniority. Not that I think Mewtwo should've been in instead of Jiggs, not matter how much I prefer him.

Oh, and Mr. Game & Watch will never leave. Why? Because he's very easy to make in the graphical and sound departments. If I were Sakurai, I'd make him first due to how easy it is to create him to test the game engine with.

...Dude..I didn't say that Falco was more important than Slippy and Peppy I said he was important to the team and franchise. Do you know anything about Starfox? He DOES stand out more on his team since he's the best in the group. Peppy is the advisor of the group, Slippy is the inventor that makes the gear and Falco along with Fox are the main fighters of the group that what makes him important to the team as well as the story and depending on the story in Command he gets his own team. Saying he has zero importance is a ignorant statement Falco IS a important character to the team and to the franchise. But then again Star fox wasn't a game that was known for a deep plot it was the game play that got people enjoying the series not for the story. The first two games did soooo much better than Assult,adventures, and Command.

Falco has popularity in both Starfox and Smash series, he's a amazing fighter which is why he became top tier despite the fact that he's a clone. Pichu is a joke character and I wouldn't mind him coming back top tier or not.

Popularity does determine tiers(along with other things), Ike is overused because he's a overall good character People always thought Falcon was cool since 64 so of course he's going to be played despite him being a bottom tier character .Doc, Gannondorf, Jiggly, and Ice climbers were also well known to be pretty popular in tourneys as well and they are all mid tier.

Jigg was already plan in the game, Take a look at Toon link he had no role as well but he was planned along with Tetra/Toon Zelda he was also had a good amount of people wanting him to be requested.

Game and watch was a good "WTF" character for the series NOONE hardly even heard about him and Sakurai does enjoy old school characters that's why Ice Climbers got in as well along with Rob despite him being a toy.

 

[MasterWarlord]

...Dude..I didn't say that Falco was more important than Slippy and Peppy I said he was important to the team and franchise. Do you know anything about Starfox? He DOES stand out more on his team since he's the best in the group. Peppy is the advisor of the group, Slippy is the inventor that makes the gear and Falco along with Fox are the main fighters of the group that what makes him important to the team as well as the story and depending on the story in Command he gets his own team. Saying he has zero importance is a ignorant statement Falco IS a important character to the team and to the franchise. But then again Star fox wasn't a game that was known for a deep plot it was the game play that got people enjoying the series not for the story. The first two games did soooo much better than Assult,adventures, and Command.

Falco has popularity in both Starfox and Smash series, he's a amazing fighter which is why he became top tier despite the fact that he's a clone. Pichu is a joke character and I wouldn't mind him coming back top tier or not.

Popularity does determine tiers(along with other things), Ike is overused because he's a overall good character People always thought Falcon was cool since 64 so of course he's going to be played despite him being a bottom tier character .Doc, Gannondorf, Jiggly, and Ice climbers were also well known to be pretty popular in tourneys as well and they are all mid tier.

Jigg was already plan in the game, Take a look at Toon link he had no role as well but he was planned along with Tetra/Toon Zelda he was also had a good amount of people wanting him to be requested.

Game and watch was a good "WTF" character for the series NOONE hardly even heard about him and Sakurai does enjoy old school characters that's why Ice Climbers got in as well along with Rob despite him being a toy.

You basically just admitted that Falco was less important then Slippy and Peppy. I don't care if he's important at all, but he needs to be more important then the other characters. Slippy's the tech guy. Peppy's the "mentor" figure. Fox is the fighter. Falco is. . .another fighter. Redundancy much? Slippy and Peppy stand out in the story more then Falco. I already told you that I don't give a **** about his tier position. Wolf is superior to Falco in every way besides not having been in Melee. He's more popular, more important, and is much less of a clone. Wolf should've been in Melee (Possibly being more of a clone there then going to his current state in Brawl) with no 3rd Starfox character being added in Brawl.

Lol @ Popularity determing tiers. You know nothing. Captain Falcon is loved, he's one of the most popular characters inside of Smash. Do you really think the captain is the least popular character? Do you really think Mr. Game & Watch and Rob are more popular then the majority of Brawl's cast? Do you really think Sonic is that low on the "popularity list" despite being the most requested character? The top tiers earn their positions through Meta Knight's godly speed and gimping, Snake's mind games and unholy tilts, and Dedede's **** grab. Popularity has nothing to do with it. Tiers determine popularity, not visa versa. Anyone who says anything different is too ignorant to be worth my time. If you don't believe this you more likely then not basically think tiers don't exist. Try comparing Dedede to Ganondorf. Superior in every god**** way.

The people didn't want Toon Link to be a clone. And in any case, just because he's requested doesn't mean he's not last second. Look at Sonic, He was the last character added to Brawl despite being the most requested. I'm also pretty sure all of the last four characters are more popular then Rob.

I'm not questioning how G&W got in, I'm just explaining why he'll never leave now that he's in. He's the last character in the retro/shock section of the roster who'll get the boot due to how easy to implement he is.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Lol @ Popularity determing tiers. You know nothing. Captain Falcon is loved, he's one of the most popular characters inside of Smash. Do you really think the captain is the least popular character? Do you really think Mr. Game & Watch and Rob are more popular then the majority of Brawl's cast? Do you really think Sonic is that low on the "popularity list" despite being the most requested character? The top tiers earn their positions through Meta Knight's godly speed and gimping, Snake's mind games and unholy tilts, and Dedede's **** grab. Popularity has nothing to do with it. Tiers determine popularity, not visa versa. Anyone who says anything different is too ignorant to be worth my time. If you don't believe this you more likely then not basically think tiers don't exist. Try comparing Dedede to Ganondorf. Superior in every god**** way.

The "popularity" that contributes to tier placement is not the same as the "popularity" that you're thinking of. If the character is good, more people will use the character and get better with them, find more techs, etc. You don't need to look at a tier list to see how good a character is. When more people are using a character to get better and win more, you get a higher tier placement.

 

[MasterWarlord]

The "popularity" that contributes to tier placement is not the same as the "popularity" that you're thinking of. If the character is good, more people will use the character and get better with them, find more techs, etc. You don't need to look at a tier list to see how good a character is. When more people are using a character to get better and win more, you get a higher tier placement.

Exactly. When a character is elevated to a godly level in competetive play, it's only natural more people will use them. Tiers make popularity. Of course more people playing the same characters makes the character's meta game go forth even higher and make more and more people use them, and tier lists are based off tourney results, so I guess you could say Ike is higher then he's suppossed to be due to so many people playing him. But still, the tier position is what makes the people pick the character in the first place in competetive play more often then not. Sure, they'll pick out of the higher tiers, but they'll never even think of using low or bottom. I had to give up playing my favorite, Ganondorf, due to the tyranny of tiers.

Dedede has over Ganondorf:
-**** Grab
-Superior Recovery
-Superior jumps
-Heavier
-Faster
-More powerful
-Projectile
-More range

Really now, what were they on when they balanced the game?