WHOBO Results, and the Conflict at hand.

[pure_awesome]

We obviously need to ban M2K since he's overcentralizing the metagame.

It's becoming that you either play as M2K, or you lose. That's overcentralization.

 

[Twin_Scimitar]

Wooow, someone is anal.
Are you seriously trying to create a debate where there is none?
Especially towards a resons ethat obiously was not intended to be taken in a serious fashion.

Of course if you wish to get in a debate, I would argue that one character fighting games are better.
Why?
in terms of competitive capability, a one character fighting game ensures balance and ensures that both players re in a contest of skill, rather than a contest of who is using the better character.

There NOW you have reason to use your witty responses and have good reason to start a debate.

Ehh... I was harsh I do that. Just pointing out that there was little reason to snipe at my point when you didn't have one of your own.
Your're right, it was a point not to be taken seriously, so I really don't want to argue about it. It doesn't actually affect the Metaknight ban situation.

It would be awesome if Pikachu ended up being a valid counter for Meta knight. I don't see it happening, but that would be a happy day.

I don't compete at the highest levels of play. I was under the impression that:

DDD>SNAKE

GW>Falco
Marth>Falco

You know Wario better than I do. I thought Marth was even/Marth had an advantage, and MK had the advantage.

Those four characters do seem to all have pretty even matchups with eachother, well except Meta Knight. This is where you know more than I do though, so I'll just be here without a leg to stand on.

 

[Anther]

I can't believe I didn't see that before. Someone make the poll!

 

[CaliburChamp]

I hate counterpicking systems.

I remember back in the Melee days, there was counterpicking "rules", where the winner of that round can't change characters. Everyone never had a problem with it, and I'm surprised alot of TO's don't have that rule enforced, it could get people to stop complaining about MK so much if the TO's enforce that rule and makes it a standard rule like it once was in the Melee days. The result would be people picking MK less once they know that the winner of that match can't change characters.

If it makes sense people might as well try it.

 

[LouBega]

nana breaks the counterpick system. someone should start a new topic and make a poll or something about it.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I remember back in the Melee days, there was counterpicking "rules", where the winner of that round can't change characters. Everyone never had a problem with it, and I'm surprised alot of TO's don't have that rule enforced, it could get people to stop complaining about MK so much if the TO's enforce that rule and makes it a standard rule like it once was in the Melee days. The result would be people picking MK less once they know that the winner of that match can't change characters.

If it makes sense people might as well try it.

1. not true
2. gayest rule ever

 

[Suspect]

I already said winner should stay there character.

 

[CaliburChamp]

1. not true
2. gayest rule ever

But thats how it was like in melee and other competitive fighting games. And whats the point in picking a counterpick stage when your opponent is going to change characters?

I agree with Jack Frost, winner should stay their character.

It doesn't sound like you have a valid reason FICTION.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

But thats how it was like in melee and other competitive fighting games. And whats the point in picking a counterpick stage when your opponent is going to change characters?

I agree with Jack Frost, winner should stay their character.

It doesn't sound like you have a valid reason FICTION.

Not allowing an opponent to change characters after you pick a stage effectively breaks the counterpicking system and makes it literally "whoever win the first game wins the set." allow me to explain:

lets say i play...uh...link. Somehow I'm able to pull off a win against a friend of mine who plays diddy. He says okay and goes rainbow cruise and metaknight. oh boy he gets a pretty much auto win against me...so now its third game. I go battlefield. oh no...he has to stay mk while i go someone else. Its an auto win second game and if you go a character like mk with no counterpicks it breaks the system >_<

 

[Xyro77]

Technically... <_<

Winner is supposed to change character first, then Loser can CP a character, then choose a stage.

MK makes this rule rather obsolete.

metaknight breaks the counter pick system. in melee it was never this bad. and i have been competitive in in since 02

 

[pure_awesome]

Winner staying their character would just make more people start their sets using MK rather than switching halfway through.

 

[_Phloat_]

Making someone stay their character does not, in any way shape or form, make MK less safe.

It makes other characters, like Peach, less safe, because they can get screwed by stages.

But not MK

Before suggesting something, think "What will this accomplish" instead of "I wanna type this into a box"

 

[@HomE]

Before suggesting something, think "What will this accomplish" instead of "I wanna type this into a box"

^10,000Lols

 

[Furbs]

allan pick up your phone

also ban MK plz

 

[CaliburChamp]

Not allowing an opponent to change characters after you pick a stage effectively breaks the counterpicking system and makes it literally "whoever win the first game wins the set." allow me to explain:

lets say i play...uh...link. Somehow I'm able to pull off a win against a friend of mine who plays diddy. He says okay and goes rainbow cruise and metaknight. oh boy he gets a pretty much auto win against me...so now its third game. I go battlefield. oh no...he has to stay mk while i go someone else. Its an auto win second game and if you go a character like mk with no counterpicks it breaks the system >_<

The better player wins still, and its makes it more fair. The Brawl rules are still very much flawed, which is why we have threads like these, because then almost everyone will pick MK for the first round. This rule will most likely end up helping you rather than hurting you since you don't play as MK, Fiction.

metaknight breaks the counter pick system. in melee it was never this bad.

Usually, you have to try something first to realize you like it. I'm pretty sure the tournament results will be different in your region if you use this rule.

 

[Xyro77]

just think, if metaknight was GONE the system would be NEAR perfect or at least slightly more fair

DDD beats snake.
falco beats ddd
marth beats falco
diddy beats marth
ect............

blah blah blah you throw in some rob/gw/lucario. you can actually CP characters now instead of just sitting on metaknight and enjoy not having a disadvantage. AT least you would see variety. and lower tiers would have a SLIGHTLY better chance at winning and thier metagame will improve because they will be picked more and be developed more. metaknight stunts growth.

STAGES will actually CP now! Olimar can actually WIN on corneria/luigi's mansion. With metaknight you wouldnt even try going there.

Plainking problem would be solved(because all other character plainking can be dealt with and metaknights is UNSTOPABLE if done right)

 

[Gishnak]

Plainking problem would be solved(because all other character plainking can be dealt with and metaknights is UNSTOPABLE if done right)

How do you deal with Marth planking?

Spoiler

with half the cast

 

[Ravin]

Zair ... :D

 

[_Phloat_]

The better player wins still, and its makes it more fair. The Brawl rules are still very much flawed, which is why we have threads like these, because then almost everyone will pick MK for the first round. This rule will most likely end up helping you rather than hurting you since you don't play as MK, Fiction.



Usually, you have to try something first to realize you like it. I'm pretty sure the tournament results will be different in your region if you use this rule.

How does it make it more fair? How in the world does it make it fair? It makes characters that can get Stage CPed hard much harder to use... as in.. not MK. More people will pick MK the first round, if their old main gets screwed by a really hard CP. Also, rules are not based on weather they help Fiction (or any player) or not.


Different is always better.

 

[Kinzer]

Time your instant-ledgesnapping, at least Marth can get gimped.

At least this is what I think, I could be wrong/there might be a better

Edit: Okay Zair works fine too.

 

[Xyro77]

How do you deal with Marth planking?

with samus? or in general? there are many ways MULTIPLE characters can get around it.

ddd can simply power shield the fair and walk off and bair(yes it does work)

samus can set a bomb or shoot a homming missle and quick edge hug.

snake has a CRAP load of things that can work(nades,mines, missle). ive seen Ultimate razer do it.

theres other ways with other characters.

 

[Ravin]

Someone set us a bomb.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I don't feel like wasting my time arguing. Just try it and test it out and see if it helps any. I can say so much more, but I already explained it fully.

The loser of the match shouldn't have his counterpick stage nullified just because the winner of that round changed characters. It's just not fair.

 

[pure_awesome]

The purpose of counterpicking is to give the loser a slight advantage.

Going from using your DK against my Toon Link on Final Destination to using your DK against my Falco on Jungle Japes is not a slight advantage.

 

[CHOMPY]

Theres so many characters that can take on Metaknight. The metagame is just fine as is you people whin too much about Metaknight.

 

[_Phloat_]

I don't feel like wasting my time arguing. Just try it and test it out and see if it helps any. I can say so much more, but I already explained it fully.

The loser of the match shouldn't have his counterpick stage nullified just because the winner of that round changed characters. It's just not fair.

There is a lot more too it than hurting characters. Say you think you can beat Inui. Win the first against his snake, and lose the second against his MK.

You don't pick a bad MK stage! You pick FD, and hope he takes the bait and goes Snake.

=]

 

[Ravin]

You don't pick a bad MK stage! You pick FD, and hope he takes the bait and goes Snake.

=]

There is no bad MK stages

 

[_Phloat_]

FD is a bad MK stage.

Bad doesn't mean it gives him a disadvantage, but at least it isn't Delfino.

 

[Deathcarter]

You know the SBR can update the stage list and ban more stages that are deemed uncompetetive (and a LOT of the current counterpicks are very questionable). There was that unofficial list of stages Umbreon had (there was 12 legal stages on the list btw) and it would be more fitting to CaliberChump's plan. I like CaliberChump's suggestion, but we would need to ban most of the crap stages before even thinking about implementing it.

 

[Mew2King]

what SBR says doesn't mean it's how TOs have to run their tourneys. A lot of opinions back there are kinda 50/50ish

 

[Xyro77]

what SBR says doesn't mean it's how TOs have to run their tourneys. A lot of opinions back there are kinda 50/50ish

but whatever they say tends to be what the majority of TOs go by.

 

[Mew2King]

a lot of the back room is dumb, biased, and more top players need to be in it but aren't

 

[Xyro77]

a lot of the back room is dumb, biased, and more top players need to be in it but aren't

Boy do i agree with that!

 

[Deathcarter]

what SBR says doesn't mean it's how TOs have to run their tourneys. A lot of opinions back there are kinda 50/50ish

That is true. Though to be fair, Brawl has been out for over a year and a lot of those iffy stages like Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, etc. have not really been adressed by TOs in mass despite debate on their overall competetive value (Any stage that alters matchups heavily in one characters favor should be scrutinized). But then again, the opinions of counterpick stages varies from region to region.

 

[bobson]

That is true. Though to be fair, Brawl has been out for over a year and a lot of those iffy stages like Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, etc. have not really been adressed by TOs in mass despite debate on their overall competetive value (Any stage that alters matchups heavily in one characters favor should be scrutinized). But then again, the opinions of counterpick stages varies from region to region.

Neither of those stages you mentioned do what you say.

 

[CRASHiC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0nc8l0XKEY

Red blames that on Norfair, and not metaknight.

 

[bobson]

Red blames that on Norfair, and not metaknight.

He even admitted in the comments that he only planked because he didn't like the stage, not because planking was in any way more advantageous than usual on Norfair.

 

[CRASHiC]

but whatever they say tends to be what the majority of TOs go by.

And many players except you to follow the rules strictly.
Its difficult to get a stage in Neutral/CP into Neutral without complaints.

 

[Nic64]

Red blames that on Norfair, and not metaknight.

that wasn't really my point, I just picked a random recent example of planking because I find the statement that "Also at least MK's evolution of the game is fighting you" to be pretty funny when planking was a massive innovation for MK's metagame.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Lol, what a gay character.